Restoration spell change

[2coolfool]

hmm thinking over the points, this spell would severely disadvantage people with lower mag lvl in pk and fights, which wouldn't be good since they would complain a lot

 

but for the game and mag skill as a whole it's great imo, gives people a motivation to level after mag lvl 49, which will make me go even more crazy on air ess and mana drain

 

EDIT: means i voted yes

Edited May 7, 2007 by 2coolfool

[Vormavius]

Acelon's idea its perfect imo.

[Entropy]

Level 21 is too low for such a spell, which is almost the equivalent of restore for not too strong characters.

[Acelon]

Level 21 is too low for such a spell, which is almost the equivalent of restore for not too strong characters.

 

Obviously it could be tweaked, it was just the initial suggestion.

 

I just think adding in the new spell, and raising restores level would be ideal.

[Troger]

Level 21 is too low for such a spell, which is almost the equivalent of restore for not too strong characters.

I voted yes! that is right that lvl 21 is far too low for a great spell like this...I have not a high lvl on magic, but i feel that i have already everything that i needed, so i stoped train on magic...I think that if this, or Acelons ideea will ever got implemented, i and many of us will stay more on this great skill...

 

Troger

[masterpiter]

I voted YES coz of several reasons:

 

1) Magic skill becomes more important and there r more benefits for ppl with higher magic.

 

2) Recently i see many ppl on ogres or weaker creatures that can stay on spawn for 6 hours long, its not coz they have ultimate a/d/p/c but in most cases coz of using steel/tit plate set+col. Restoration spell that would restore "only" 100-150 health would shorten their training rounds.

 

3)If some1 says: omg, how i can train w/o resotring 300 hp with every restore, i say: no big deal, CoL wasnt in eL from the beginning and on low and middle lvl creatures its not neccecary(it helps 2 stay longer on spawn but it is not a must-have for training).

 

I fully understand that mixers/harvesters will suffer most from that change.

I thought that maybe outside of combat restore spell can be normal as it was until now, so if u r not fighting it would still restore ur health to the fullest. Just an idea

 

About Spleen and his "marvelous" idea about restore failing at magic 49 or higher:

Why u suggests something that will not affect u? Only to piss off every single fighter/PKer in eL ?

 

eMPi

[bregi]

I'd rather see some other change than basing resto on magic lev, (although it wouldn't affect me, 80hp, 27mag.. and no CoL )... how about making things a little more difficult for the CoL users and leave it the same for all those that don't? my first idea to do this would be to make resto only resotre your health to the hp you have based on your attribs... and then new spell or 2nd resto required to resto also the hp the CoL added...

 

just a suggestion... but I'd vote no for the initial poll...

 

edit: or also have a new spell with real high magic lev required for 'full restore'

Edited May 7, 2007 by bregi

[2coolfool]

2) Recently i see many ppl on ogres or weaker creatures that can stay on spawn for 6 hours long, its not coz they have ultimate a/d/p/c but in most cases coz of using steel/tit plate set+col. Restoration spell that would restore "only" 100-150 health would shorten their training rounds.

 

one of the reasons i voted, spawns were always taken.. i myself was able to stay at ogre spawn for 7-8 hours at a time in full steel col + nmt, and had HE/SR left for 7-8 hours more but stupid rl

[Scorpius]

I voted yes, but to be honest, I'd rather see it as such.

 

Level 21, rather than having restore...have a spell called Rejuvenate (or mend) and have it heal 100 hp base and have that be level based. THEN, have restore as a higher level spell (50?) and it does the current effect.

 

Im very much for this idea. sounds more reasonable to me than lowering the restore spell.

 

#EDIT: since some confusion came up.. im against the idea for lowering restore.. but im for Acelons Idea

Edited May 7, 2007 by Scorpius

[Jay10]

I voted no...

 

1) Becuase it's already hard enough to get the a PK-ers a/d.... and then knowing that you can die just from a stupid spell fail? haha...

 

2) almost ~*ALL*~ alchemist makes FE's, and in order to make a better profit, they use Toadstools.... and of course toadstools = poison... that could cause some issues..

 

and 3) I just didn't like the idea...

 

 

I liked some of the otehr ideas, like Ace, when you said a lower restore would be like a "Mend"... I would vote yes if this "Mend" used only 2 HE's and like 10-16 mana. until THAT is debated on.. i will stand for my vote

 

--JayJay

[agis29]

I voted no although my magic level is high enough.I agree anyway that level 21 is too low. I would say yes also if the shield spell was level based too.

[kibora]

It's a good idea. All the spells effects should be based on your magic level

[LadyReni]

before I vote, how will be the non-failure lvl issue solved?

[maximos]

this feature should be set on 'Harm' and 'Heal Other', instead of 'Restoration'

[sithicus]

The way it is formulated now, it looks like restore will more or less stay, but just need way more magic level. In other words, it will change nothing for the people who are pr0 PK. They still heal 300 hp in a fight. But to train mid level will become harder. As if that is what we need in EL.

 

As long as there is no clear substitute for magic leveling / mid level healing, I will be very much against.

 

Of course, having level 60 magic should have some advantage, that I agree on. So instead of starting at level 35 + 5 hp per level, why not keep it base level 21 with 5 hp per 2 levels?

[LabRat]

How to vote, how to vote?

 

At the moment as a career miner I wear a COL and a MOL constantly, harvest and only restore whenever my health gets below 35 (the COL and MOL make a big difference here).

 

The change would mean I would need to carry a bunch of HE around with me and 'restore' more often, losing some carry and pretty much negating the use of the MOL (no point having it if I don't get the benefit, I may as well just stick to the COL and 'restore' after every fourth hit).

 

I can see this increasing the ore prices a little, which I am all in favour of for the simple fact that I am a miner.

 

MOLs may suffer as a saleable commodity, time will tell.

 

This game is in a permanent state of flux, I am set in my ways but apart from some really big changes (cooldown springs readily to mind, yay for I eat dead people) my gameplay has been largely unaffected. If the proposed idea is introduced we'll all just need to adjust with new playing styles.

 

Maybe this will also increase the market for BR potions again, who knows?

 

After some deliberation I will vote a yes on this.

[majestyk]

I voted yes. I always thought restoration was overpowered the way it is. Nothing against having a restoration spell like we already have, but it should only be available for high level magicians (50+?) and for a much higher cost (15-20HE? 10HE+4LE?). Having a spell that "scales" with your magic level for the time in between is a good idea. Additionally, I think this will bring higher rotation to spawns, which is nice too.

 

Cheers,

maj

[korrode]

ppl with low level magic (~21) shouldnt have more than 100 hp anyway

 

Why not?

I had a CoL before i had mag 21.

 

and I had mag 49 before I had CoL :-)

 

I voted yes, this isnt ideal, but its good way, imho all good Pkers can restore all HP with 5 points/lvl, so it affect only ebul low lvls with lots of irl money and full sto of CoLs \o/

Marwen, i hope your not implying that i was a "ebul low lvl with lots or irl money and full sto of CoLs", I got essences together, leveled my manu so i could make S2Es and Steel Longs and got myself a CoL... and as for "lots of irl money", pfft, i wish.

 

so it affect only ebul low lvls

2) Recently i see many ppl on ogres or weaker creatures that can stay on spawn for 6 hours long, its not coz they have ultimate a/d/p/c but in most cases coz of using steel/tit plate set+col. Restoration spell that would restore "only" 100-150 health would shorten their training rounds.

Yes, it will effect low lvls, the people who need restoration the most. Why take it away from them? Why make the strong stronger and the weak weaker?

 

one of the reasons i voted, spawns were always taken.. i myself was able to stay at ogre spawn for 7-8 hours at a time in full steel col + nmt, and had HE/SR left for 7-8 hours more but stupid rl

Yeah but this is always gonna be a problem with ogres until someone listens to me and implements an un-armed monster thats levels are inbetween ogre and fluffy... cause armed orcs and cyclopes suck for training, so hardly anyone will use them... why? because they can stay training on a monster that doesn't crit badly for alot longer... plus alot easier to die while training due to restoration fail if your fighting something thats crits hurt alot. Edited May 7, 2007 by Korrode

[Lorck]

 

so it affect only ebul low lvls

2) Recently i see many ppl on ogres or weaker creatures that can stay on spawn for 6 hours long, its not coz they have ultimate a/d/p/c but in most cases coz of using steel/tit plate set+col. Restoration spell that would restore "only" 100-150 health would shorten their training rounds.

Yes, it will effect low lvls, the people who need restoration the most. Why take it away from them? Why make the powerful more powerful and the weak weaker?

OK, easy answer.

 

To mantain balance. When people get more levels, they get (or should get) more rewards.

 

Furthermore, when the restore spell was developed, there weren't such good armor and COL and MOL. Nowadays people go with their steel plates and col and mol, and guess what, monsters don't bypass their armor. And even when they bypass, that person has a huge number healthy points, and after some point it restores _all_ the hp, making the game really boring at lower levels.

one of the reasons i voted, spawns were always taken.. i myself was able to stay at ogre spawn for 7-8 hours at a time in full steel col + nmt, and had HE/SR left for 7-8 hours more but stupid rl

Yeah but this is always gonna be a problem with ogres until someone listens to me and implements an un-armed monster thats levels are inbetween ogre and fluffy... cause armed orcs and cyclopes suck for training, so hardly anyone will use them... why? because they can stay training on a monster that doesn't crit badly for alot longer... plus alot easier to die while training due to restoration fail if your fighting something thats crits hurt alot.

Oh, ye, cycs are bad for training... they have lots of hp for their levels, lots of toughness for their levels, fast respawn time... they are exp machines. Edited May 7, 2007 by Lorck

[korrode]

Oh, ye, cycs are bad for training... they have lots of hp for their levels, lots of toughness for their levels, fast respawn time... they are exp machines.

pfft. It's been too long since your a/d levels were only just at the point where clops are ok for training Lorck. Clops are ok when you have 90+ def level cause they wont get as many crits in cause they simply cant hit u easy enough, but def 90 is more than enough for fluffs so by the time people get there clops are a bad training choice.

 

Also, Seph just made a good point on #gm;

People who are smart and want to build their a/d levels, not PK, keep their p/c low.

I like the way that works, you cant have the best of both worlds, either good trainer or good PK'er. If the restoration spell is changed more SRS and HE will be needed, so the high p/c PK'er types with heaps of carry capacity will have an easier time training... again; the strong will get stronger and weak weaker. Those who are patient with their p/c and continue training before starting PK (well, start PK'ing well) will be punished. bs.

 

 

EDIT:

To mantain balance. When people get more levels, they get (or should get) more rewards.

Rewards yes, but should the game get easier as your levels get higher? no way, it should get harder. Edited May 7, 2007 by Korrode

[hades]

i voted yes, i like level based spells. Im level 78 btw.

 

Magic needs new high level ebul spells btw , like an 100 spell level that bypass magic immunity

 

if they open a magic school and add a magic quest to help level in magic. rolleyes.gif

 

i like this idea

[Lorck]

if they open a magic school and add a magic quest to help level in magic.

Magic is in the Air!

Using the spell that Lustra discovered a few months ago, the Tirnym and Naralik Magic School, run by Grandmaster Rivena, now have the magic training zone spell cast upon their schools. All magic users are invited to train in these areas, with minimal risk involved.

 

 

~The Association of Scribes and Scholars~

Rewards yes, but should the game get easier as your levels get higher? no way, it should get harder.

What exactly you are meaning? If someone worked hard for something, s/he should enjoy the fruits of his/her efforts.

 

EDIT: Oh, one more thing i would like to add. Please, please, make a new monster with lots of hp, lots of toughness, fast respawn time, near my levels for me to train on. No problem if they do a lot of criticals, i just add some physique and vitality and stay on them nicely.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Lorck

[RallosZek]

Voted no, simply because this implementation as is, is based on standard tactics to play the game and it has too many implications for people who don't use the standard tactics. For example, for dust a 300 heal is only a little over 50% health with col+mol. Which by the way, also sheds light on the forward compatibiltiy of this change.

 

If anything, it should be percentage based. Like 100% restore at magic 81, decreasing 1% per 3 magic levels, with a base of 100 HP. This would give an 80% restore at 21 (80HP with standard training tactics, effectively 100 and 200 with col), 87% at 49 etc. Implementing it like this, will at least be foreward compatible with any HP boos items that may come.

[ferngale]

But to train mid level will become harder. As if that is what we need in EL.

 

I agree completely with this, but I also agree that spending 6-7 hours on a spawn is insane and prolly really bad for your wrists and eyes.

However, we do have a mid-level "heal spell" sorta. It's called Life Drain.

IF Restore were changed, how about increasing the HP recovered from LD to 5 pts per level? More/different essies required, more emu taken up.

 

For now, my vote is no.

 

Ferny

[korrode]

What exactly you are meaning? If someone worked hard for something, s/he should enjoy the fruits of his/her efforts.

The truth of the matter is that, for the most part, all other skills just support fighters. Medallions, Combat Rings, Armors, Weapons, many of the Potions, Summoning Stones and Bars/Essences to make it all are all items used for fighting, whether it be training or PK'ing. Almost no one just levels a/d/m, so theres rewards for leveling one or more of the other skills.

But since we're specifically talking about attack, def and magic;

There are plenty of rewards for having a high magic level; Mana Drain, Invisiblity, True Sight and I.C.T.P.R... These are useful spells and i wouldn't want to see people with low level magic have any of them... and the non-fail at mag 49 is a good reward.

As for att and def; the reward there is simple, u get alot more exp from higher level monsters that have high health.

The rewards are already there, and they're good rewards. I just think that the proposed changes to the key spell that allows people to train a/d and PK is a bad idea... not to mention the poor shroom eating mixers.

 

EDIT: Oh, one more thing i would like to add. Please, please, make a new monster with lots of hp, lots of toughness, fast respawn time, near my levels for me to train on. No problem if they do a lot of criticals, i just add some physique and vitality and stay on them nicely.

Sounds great! as long as (for once i get to those levels) it's toughness is high enough for me to massively pump phys, still have high coord, and be able to barefist it and do minimum damage

 

 

A final note:

I know all you 70+ mag and 110+ a/d peoples want to see it harder for the lower levels so you can all remain gods of PK for longer without having to train as hard, but that's simply unfair and just shows lazyness.

Anyone who trained their a/d from mid-high to very high levels in the time CoL's have existed, and votes yes to this thread is just lazy and scared.

I do feel for those who got their levels high before the existence of the CoL, but it's here now, and as far as i know it's not going anywhere.

 

 

 

EDIT:

But to train mid level will become harder. As if that is what we need in EL.

 

I agree completely with this, but I also agree that spending 6-7 hours on a spawn is insane and prolly really bad for your wrists and eyes.

However, we do have a mid-level "heal spell" sorta. It's called Life Drain.

IF Restore were changed, how about increasing the HP recovered from LD to 5 pts per level? More/different essies required, more emu taken up.

 

For now, my vote is no.

 

Ferny

Sorry Ferny but life drain is a very bad way to heal yourself while training, you dont want to take health off what your fighting via a spell, you want to do it by hitting them. No attack exp using a spell, and u loose all the def exp u would have gained dodging their hits inbetween your attacks that take that health.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Korrode