Inguild ranks

[Cycloonx]

Since we can't see the ranks of players in the game it's quite hard to remember everyone's exact rank. Maybe some handy coder can add the rank of the player after the name in the #list_guild command. I guess it's not much work to do that (or maybe only ent can do this because it is server sided I guess) but it would be nice option for GM to remember who got a special rank or not

[Aislinn]

Did you ever try #rank name?

 

(You also might want to browse through your help window, all that information is there in the "guild commands" section)

[Atlantis]

Did you ever try #rank name?

 

(You also might want to browse through your help window, all that information is there in the "guild commands" section)

that only works if you are rank 19 I think...I'm not sure _exactly_ how it works, but a rank 5 deffidently cannot #rank a rank 19, for example. This suggestion would be useful to quickly be able to see who has the rank 19 to get a kick for training, for example.

[Aislinn]

that only works if you are rank 19 I think...I'm not sure _exactly_ how it works, but a rank 5 deffidently cannot #rank a rank 19, for example.

 

 

Since we can't see the ranks of players in the game it's quite hard to remember everyone's exact rank. Maybe some handy coder can add the rank of the player after the name in the #list_guild command. I guess it's not much work to do that (or maybe only ent can do this because it is server sided I guess) but it would be nice option for GM to remember who got a special rank or not

 

*sighs*

[Cycloonx]

This suggestion would be useful to quickly be able to see who has the rank 19 to get a kick for training, for example.

 

Well that was the main reason I suggested it, typing #rank player for every member will take ages

 

 

Edit: It might even be viewable for normal members, it's always good to know who got a high rank in the guild. Surely when you are a new member

Edited February 28, 2006 by Cycloonx

[WizzKidd]

I like this idea.. and it goes along with what I was wanting to suguest.

 

Maybe the #list_guild command could list like a grid sorted on player name and include rank, the date the player joined the guild and the date of their last login.

 

Player name........Rank......Join Date......Last Login

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

This leads to the next issue. It would be REALLY helpful to be able to remove / change rank on players who are not online. Especially remove. The issue of guilds saying there are 40 members but only 12 of them are active is quite prevelant. Not to mention someone doing something worthy of being kicked from the guild.. then they are never online when a leader who can kick them is.

 

Would it be possable to get better guild support in the future?

Edited June 27, 2006 by WizzKidd

[MagpieLee]

#rank someone only works when they're online too. So this is NOT a viable option.

 

Including this in the #list_guild would be idea. Nice idea

[trollson]

This could be implemented as a bot function, there is no need to make a core change to support it.

[The_Piper]

This could be implemented as a bot function, there is no need to make a core change to support it.

 

How does a bot know about ranks in a guild? Thats server sided.

 

Piper

[Lorck]

Yeah, but the GM could make a list and store it on the bot. If something changes the bot is also updated, but this may be too much overhead for the leaders of the guild.

In =Hc=, for instance, there are a compreensive list of the rankings of everyone in the guild posted in a safe place.

[trollson]

How does a bot know about ranks in a guild? Thats server sided.

 

The bot has to be a guild member, and uses '#rank' to maintain a list of the ranks of the guild members. Periodically refresh this using '#list_guild' and monitoring the list of online characters. The information can then be provided as a digest on request.

[vwpro]

Did you ever try #rank name?

 

(You also might want to browse through your help window, all that information is there in the "guild commands" section)

 

when i kick people from guild, and reaccept i dont know what rank they where X,x

 

and besides, its way to anoying to keep #rank NAME people, since the ranks change evrytime in some guilds,and im not the only one who chance them.

[DarElik]

How does a bot know about ranks in a guild? Thats server sided.

 

The bot has to be a guild member, and uses '#rank' to maintain a list of the ranks of the guild members. Periodically refresh this using '#list_guild' and monitoring the list of online characters. The information can then be provided as a digest on request.

 

That wouldn't be a workable option in the current guild system we have. If the bot relied on #rank and #list_guild, he would be in no better shape than we are now.

 

Plus, out of all the guilds that are currently in EL, how many actually HAVE bots? Sure, that's a nice way to maintain your guild if you HAVE a bot and can do the programming (or have somebody that does), but what about all the others that don't? This suggestion is viable for them. The guild system is seriously lacking of features for guild management (and there's several threads on these forums that have discussed that over the last couple years to attest to that).

Disclaimer: I understand that EL devs do have MUCH more to do right now than worry about the guild system, so it's not something that I think should be a priority, but just "be on the list" for later.

 

Sure, he could use #rank to keep track of members' current ranks, IF he 1) knew they were online, or 2) was sent a command to update it, and 3) was sent ANOTHER command to update it when an admin changed someone's rank.

 

Also, using #list_guild in its current state would yield all kinds of crazy results. For instance, my #list_guild shows several players twice (one with two different letter cases (i.e., Bob vs boB)), lists the old names of members that have had name changes, and doesn't list the new names members have changed to, not to mention the fact that the current guild system can't even count how many members you have in your guild correctly (my #list_guild llists 26 (21 if you don't count the duplicates and count the "old" names of members as if they were "current" names - lol ), my #guild_info claims 20, but there is really only 19).

 

I have a bot awaiting approval over on the test server and I do have him doing guild admin. He keeps a list of members and their ranks. When I want to change a guild members rank, I just PM him and he changes it in his list and does #change_rank of the member for me. But, he doesn't rely on #list_guild to know who is in the guild, I tell him who is in the guild and completely disregard #list_guild because of it's flaws.

 

As Magpie said, #rank (and #change_rank) only works if the member is online (though #remove works anytime), so if you had your bot rely on this, he would also have to be programmed to know when the member is online or actually have the member walk in front of him or PM him to be aware that he could even USE #rank to find out their guild rank. You can't have your bot just spending all his time trying the #rank <playername> command over and over for every member hoping to catch them online..

 

As far as kicking people and reaccepting them back to the rank you had them at, it would be your responsiblity to keep track of what you set members at in the first place. Use Notepad, use a pen and paper and an actual notebook, keep a list you can update on your guild forum, (program your bot to do that too), whatever.. There's plenty of options for that..

 

I would like to see more integrated guild administration and features, but like I said above, I don't think it should be considered any form of a priority right now with so much else needing to be done with other things.

 

(There's my 2 cents/pesos/quid/whatever, slam-on)

[Zaer]

OR we could go back to cycloo's first idea which was by far the most sensible, more practical and easiest idea to implement as far as i can see

 

Great idea, its annoying trying to organise a guild when you can only #rank if you are 19, and you cant do it to people who are offline anyway.

Edited June 28, 2006 by Zaer

[trollson]

The bot has to be a guild member, and uses '#rank' to maintain a list of the ranks of the guild members. Periodically refresh this using '#list_guild' and monitoring the list of online characters. The information can then be provided as a digest on request.

That wouldn't be a workable option in the current guild system we have. If the bot relied on #rank and #list_guild, he would be in no better shape than we are now.

 

Sure, he could use #rank to keep track of members' current ranks, IF he 1) knew they were online, or 2) was sent a command to update it, and 3) was sent ANOTHER command to update it when an admin changed someone's rank.

1. Bots can already tell if someone is online by looking at the online players page. This is already done in some bots.
   
2. Not relevant. Bots can be set to issue guild commands, no problem. That isnt necessary here, they only need to be able to use '#rank <name>'.
   
3. Not a serious issue. Periodic automatic updating is quite sufficient (say every 5min), though if not then it could be prompted to update as well.
   

Also, using #list_guild in its current state would yield all kinds of crazy results. For instance, my #list_guild shows several players twice

That is the responsibility of the Guild to keep the lists cleaned of dead characters. We did a major spring clean last year to remove dead or misnamed characters.

 

A bot implementation is a simple enough design:

• It maintains its own list of member ranks.
  
• Periodically updates when guild members (from '#list_guild') are online (from the characters online page).
  
• Reports such information on request by other guild members.
  

The only issues are:

• That it is only as fresh as the update interval (for characters online).
  
• That each guild requires an information bot with such a module.
  

[DarElik]

 

[*] Bots can already tell if someone is online by looking at the online players page. This is already done in some bots.

 

But only IF they happen to have a bot that is programmed that way. Most guilds do not have a bot, much less one that is programmed to use the Players Online page to lookup their members. You even mentioned yourself that it is already done in some bots. You seem to be misleading the topic a bit by referring to how it COULD be done with some bots, but for people that don't have bots at all or don't have one programmed to do the lookups, the guild system just doesn't have the features it could have or, in some cases, work the way they should.

 

[*] Not relevant. Bots can be set to issue guild commands, no problem. That isnt necessary here, they only need to be able to use '#rank <name>'.

 

#rank is a guild command, so I don't see how it isn't necessary.. But, if the player isn't online, you can't use the #rank command anyway, it's useless. (Thus one of the main reasons of this thread to begin with).

 

[*] Not a serious issue. Periodic automatic updating is quite sufficient (say every 5min), though if not then it could be prompted to update as well.

 

Periodic updating isn't an issue here anyway. We're not talking about what bots can/can't/should/shouldn't do, we were talking about how it would be nice to be able to change a member's rank with #change_rank, see a member's rank with #rank and things without the member being online and to have some other commands that a person could enter to administer his/her guild better.

 

 

That is the responsibility of the Guild to keep the lists cleaned of dead characters. We did a major spring clean last year to remove dead or misnamed characters.

 

Well, I sure would like to know how (without destroying and re-creating my guild) you did that. If I try to #remove a member that's listed twice (even with different cAsE fOrMaTs), it just removes one occurance and you can't remove the second occurance of them. When they rejoin the guild, there's still two of them. If you have someone in your list that is no longer in the guild, that name is stuck there. If you have players that have changed their name, you can't remove those players either..

 

So how did you remove your "dead or misnamed characters" from your #list_guild list?

(If you were referring to your BOT's lists as the "lists" that was cleaned, then, again, that's not what this thread was about)

 

A bot implementation is a simple enough design:

• It maintains its own list of member ranks.
  
• Periodically updates when guild members (from '#list_guild') are online (from the characters online page).
  
• Reports such information on request by other guild members.
  

The only issues are:

• That it is only as fresh as the update interval (for characters online).
  
• That each guild requires an information bot with such a module.
  

 

Just for grins & giggles, let's review your very last statement and remember that the whole point of bringing up this topic was for people that didn't meet this requirement:

 

[*]That each guild requires an information bot with such a module.

 

Just because we have bots that can do this workaround for us, doesn't mean it should be the only way to go and there shouldn't be changes made to the current system. If changes are made to the way the guild system works, our bot programming would become much easier in the process, allowing the bot to lookup and process even more information (and, more importantly, correct and accessible information) about a guild's members.

[MagpieLee]

bots....how would they know if a player has changed their name? Its not like on your buddy list where you can see your buddy log on as a different name but bots don't have that luxury do they?

[DarElik]

bots....how would they know if a player has changed their name? Its not like on your buddy list where you can see your buddy log on as a different name but bots don't have that luxury do they?

 

No, you have to tell them the new char name.

Edited July 2, 2006 by DarElik

[vinoveritas]

Want to Resurrect this thread as i would also love to see the rank of guildie's with he #list_guild command, or see the rank of people when they are offline. As for the suggestion to do this with bots. I think this is a feature that belongs into the server as in every guild there is now and then the problem who is what rank especially for long terms absence people. I would like to be able to see their rank and change it lower so that if they come back and are still in the guild, cannot work as if they know what is going on.

For now i am going to implement the feature on a bot but i would love to see it in game command really

[LongMustache]

Sad think is, devs dont rly pay attention to the guild system. It is very ond and inconvienent and desperately needs updating.

 

This topic covers one of the features i think would benefit the system a lot. Another would be adding more management options for offline characters.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Helklo

[Jeditotalwar]

I am glad that you have brought this long-debated topic back up Vino because i think it benefits the game and helps with the structure of the guild system. Also thanks for implementing it on a bot - it will be a very useful additional command! I never understood why the #rank_playername command was restricted to #rank19 players in the first place...

[nathanstenzel]

If I recall correctly, you can #rank playername for anyone that is a lower rank as you that is in your guild and you will get their rank as a reply.

[vinoveritas]

yes but thats is what i not get, you should be able to see rank of all guildies. just not able to change it if you are below rank 19+

It also only shows the rank of people online. and that is a problem if you want to demote people who went off to long and guild changed in time.

 

For me it would be enough if it would also show the rank of people not online. But i think it would be better if it would be able for all.

[Learner]

The reason it only shows the ranks of online players is that the rank is stored with the player, not in a master guild listing anywhere. A related issue is when a player changes his name, the list of players in a guild gets messed up because it doesn't know about the name change.

[Elke]

The reason it only shows the ranks of online players is that the rank is stored with the player, not in a master guild listing anywhere. A related issue is when a player changes his name, the list of players in a guild gets messed up because it doesn't know about the name change.

Woot? So that means that I can hack my datafiles and make myself council member aka rank 19?! Or worse 20?

Edited January 18, 2013 by Elke