Suggestion for monster drops and combat.

[hussam]

Regardless of what people like to say, as an online role playing game with massive work put into many skills, quests, etc.. eternal lands downright favors mixers over fighters. Even with the addition of mini events, I can still easily harvest ingredients for 1 to 2k steel bars a day if I want to. Resources are readily available for mixers at low expense (free if you harvest everything on your own).

Alchemy is almost pure profit. In crafting, you can almost double your money if you make polished saphires out of your own water essences and sell the polished saphires to NPC in Idaloran.

 

This is not true for fighters. No "readily available" resources are there all the time. For instance, a lot of times both Idaloran and Melinis mchim are taken. And things seem to happen in waves. At one point, all dchims used to be taken. Now all dchims are free and higher level monsters are taken.

 

Another point is the profit. Training a single yeti is terrible experience. Training a single trice with cutlass is pr0 experience but the gc drops don't cover the current market prices of SRs/HE. Some bots are now even selling HE at over 9 gcs (Magic shop sells HE at 9gcs each). Add to that the high risk of death when training something that does over 60 damage points if it hits you. This creates a non sustainable system for fighters.

What I suggest to remedy this is:

1. Increase the gc drops of cockatrice so that it covers the cost of training.

2. Add a few single mchim spawns.

3. Make NPC sell SRs for 14.5 or 15 gcs each.

4. Decrease yeti respawn time.

Edited November 24, 2010 by hussam

[Raz]

Sorry - I disagree on so many levels.

 

A/D is an easy way to get gc - just you want to get lots of exp and lots of gc - go serp bethel / rot / nrm tigers.

 

You mention the profit polishing sapphires... think how much exp you get mixing the water ess..?

Lots of profit in alchemy - even if you buy the ingredients.... I would love to know what you can do.

Easily harvest ings for 1-2k stell in a day - again - all that great experience you get - 6k fe @ 6 per fe, the 2k steel... possibly 400k - you get that in 2 hours on a/d.

[Sonic]

From this thread...

 

753560984 overall points so far.

85% of which are attack+defense.

 

In terms of experience, fighters earn the fastest exp/hr.

In terms of gc, espcially high level fighters, they are high earners. With chance of NMT (probably a mixer/harvester's equivilent of a nexus stone) as a nice bonus. Intances + invasions are left out of your equation.

I would say, at your levels, if you are not happy with the gc you are earning...you are doing something wrong. (attributes or training or some aspect of your game strategy)

 

Now specifically to your points:

1. Increase the gc drops of cockatrice so that it covers the cost of training.

Use a stronger weapon, kill them faster, less flee time, less HE/sr consumption.

 

2. Add a few single mchim spawns.

Personally i think the single spawns in ..Ida/meli/x3 RoT/GP are *enough*.

 

3. Make NPC sell SRs for 14.5 or 15 gcs each.

Market channel has them for these prices, just be patient

 

4. Decrease yeti respawn time.

I think its fine..based on my experience with them.

 

 

And lastly, it seems like you want to single train monsters alot, earn uber exp, and earn $$ at the same time. My advice: strap an OS to your hand and go wild, maybe its a bit less exp, but the GC flows will improve for sure.

I also disagree with

Resources are readily available

comment, because to some extent, resources are restricted by invasions, pk'ers, and the thing we all wish we had power over. Time.

 

I'm a fighter. The ideas 1-4, would all benefit me. But I don't want them ingame

Edited November 24, 2010 by Frost

[Kidberg]

I disagree with you completely about every point. I am a person that has a character that mixes and a character that fights. Lmao.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Kidberg

[Dilly]

It seems easy to forget how much more experience you get from training a/d. Not only do you level 2 skills at the same time (3 if you include magic), also, training sessions are pretty much always profitable (exceptions of course if you have an 'accident', and granted that on some mobs drops are better than on others). Next to that, it seems a very high a/d opens up the possibility to get better gc than anyone from invasions and instances.

 

Resources may be 'readily available' to mixers, but you don't get ingreds for 10k HE in just an hour harvesting. Also, a mixer tends to need to spend a fair amount of pickpoints on nexus. Not everyone can afford to buy 25 or more hydro nexus, and take a guess what kind of characters do the most of that to begin with?

 

If you want to mix high end items in the manufacturing and crafting skills, preparations are long, timeconsuming and in addition, you will still need to be extremely lucky to get special harvestable, or buy them off bots for ever increasing amounts of gc. Then, there's a fair enough risk to crit fail that high end item, and if you're lucky, it will 'just' cost you a saving stone. And then, if all that did not go wrong, you have the honor to try and sell things for so little profit, it's hardly worth mixing these items in the first place.

 

I'm not crying about how sucky things are for mixers, just trying to show you that the grass on our side isn't all as green as you seem to think it is.

[wuffzel]

hello

 

and hmmmm, why is it always 'how many gc / xp per hour or day' ?

 

what about the fun ? i go on invasions with a bunch of pk arrows for a chance

to kill a dragon, not for the drop only, but most for the thrill and fun

 

same way i go in 'poor' armor and with s2e only in no caps invasions, hunting monsters.

 

if im down with gc i look for a way to get them .... and el gives a lot of ways.

 

depends on what level you thinking you have to be.

 

i can have fun with low gc and also be bored with a million

 

i prefer crafting moon meds, alching he's but also fighting fluffys for drops...

 

and not to forget the members of my guild LLL, we meet for projects to help us getting up.

 

well, it depends also how patient you are, at the beginning ranging was 'hell'

spending ton's of gc at arena, but now i won't miss the skill...

 

ok to be honest i also had luck in finding stones on monsters, or harvest but EL gives so many chances to earn the gc you need, just need to be patient sometimes

 

may the next nmt-cape be yours

 

wuffzel

 

oh : would it really help to increase the drops ?

i mean, if drops from one creature are getting better, the higher a/d fighters would step

back on them for gc farming, and again we have posts about spawn serping...

 

and yes for a fighter only on its own it can be hard, why not get ppl in your guild to

supply you? can be fun too, i think playing EL on my own would be too hard...and thats what

guilds are for, ppl you trust and helping each other to reach a goal

Edited November 25, 2010 by wuffzel

[Kaddy]

Even tho they would benefit me, I have to disagree.

 

-Kaddy

[korrode]

woooah hussam, you never wanna start a request for improvements for fighters with 'you mixers have it so good', it's just asking for trouble.

 

To your points:

 

2. As frost said, there's more than just ida and meli spawns. I know the other spawns aren't as nice for being afk-ish at but we'd never win making that argument.

 

3. I don't see why this is needed...

 

4. I have previously petitioned for changes to Yeti to make them better training single spawn, and am still generally for it, but as it stands if we could just get trice fixed personally i wouldn't be too phased if Yeti stayed as they are.

 

...and to your first point:

 

1. I agree Trice needs changes, but I disagree with you on the best changes to make to fix them.

 

Shoot me a PM in-game, i'd like to ask you a couple of questions... might have a pointer for you.

 

 

EDIT: For the record; i stand by my opinion that pp buying should be removed and fighters should make good exp all the way through to the a/d cap and make a tonne of gc while doing it, allowing them to pay mixers very well for their wares and burn heaps of resources in PvE and PvP. gc drops should be increased 10 fold, exp at high levels should be more than it is, etc.

 

However, these days I make suggestions within the realms of what I think could actually happen, and anything I say is under that premise.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Korrode

[ProHibited]

A/d exp should be devided by factor of 3 orso (so what you get from mobs but also the total you already have atm) and then more loot, exp/hr would be more balanced

[hussam]

Big thanks to Korrode for showing me what I was doing wrong. I was using the wrong weapon, medallion and also fleeing at the wrong times so wasting more resources than I should. Thanks again

[Entris]

Cool! If i was you i would harvest the ingreds for the bars every day.

I mean I wish i could harvest:

10000 Coal

16000 Iron Ore

6000 Red Roses

6000 Red Snapdragons

6000 Sulfur

 

every day

 

And if you would want to mix it all by yourself you would need 3000 toads/1500 fruit/2000 veggies/3000 bones or 600 Feasting pots wich would cost you 7200gc if you don't collect all the ingrediens needed for them and mix yourself wich would mean alot more harvesting...

 

(and there are some MCWs in RoT and GP too not only Mel and Idal)

Edited November 25, 2010 by Entris

[KoDdy]

Cool! If i was you i would harvest the ingreds for the bars every day.

I mean I wish i could harvest:

10000 Coal

16000 Iron Ore

6000 Red Roses

6000 Red Snapdragons

6000 Sulfur

 

every day

 

And if you would want to mix it all by yourself you would need 3000 toads/1500 fruit/2000 veggies/3000 bones or 600 Feasting pots wich would cost you 7200gc if you don't collect all the ingrediens needed for them and mix yourself wich would mean alot more harvesting...

 

(and there are some MCWs in RoT and GP too not only Mel and Idal)

 

wish i could harvest that too =p

[revi]

And let's not mention that you just can't do afk mixing (try it with FE's one of these days...)

 

Not to mention fails, 'you stopped working', crit fails.

 

@Korrode: your suggestion of making tonnes of gc from training would also require deep gc sinks on the mixers' side, any suggestions? (and that's not sarcasm, in order to keep the amount of gc in game within reasonable bounds, you really need those sinks, and they must be unavoidable, so no shop items either)

[PaulB]

And let's not mention that you just can't do afk mixing (try it with FE's one of these days...)

 

Not to mention fails, 'you stopped working', crit fails.

 

@Korrode: your suggestion of making tonnes of gc from training would also require deep gc sinks on the mixers' side, any suggestions? (and that's not sarcasm, in order to keep the amount of gc in game within reasonable bounds, you really need those sinks, and they must be unavoidable, so no shop items either)

 

Mixers have TONS of gc sinks

[forever]

Just to interject.

 

Any manuer around knows that they lose more than they make @ current prices on high end weps/armor.

[hobobob38]

you don't even have to be a manuer

[vinoveritas]

Regardless of what people like to say, as an online role playing game with massive work put into many skills, quests, etc.. eternal lands downright favors mixers over fighters. Even with the addition of mini events, I can still easily harvest ingredients for 1 to 2k steel bars a day if I want to. Resources are readily available for mixers at low expense (free if you harvest everything on your own).

Alchemy is almost pure profit. In crafting, you can almost double your money if you make polished saphires out of your own water essences and sell the polished saphires to NPC in Idaloran.

Hmm as an Alchemist i must say after lots of preperation (lets say 1 rl day of harvesting) i might have the stuff together that could make me 140kgc but that would need another rl day of hardcore mixing, and all that will need harvester meds or a alarm system that alerts you everytime when the harvest stops and you be on alert at the pc all the time checking. I may be manage 1k steel bars a day with harvesting the stuff for it but would be very hard pressed to get a second k steel bar. (with harvesting everything.) same goes for polishing gems. the time needed to do that is far more then what i would need to make profit, out of killing not the high end creatures but lower end ones.

I could go to ogre spawn without armor just an low level sword and kill them en masses for a better overall profit rate then what ever i could mix in alchemie, even my exp while not great would in the overall amount be around the sum i would get if i count all the low level Alchemie stuff i would need to mix my Steel or seridium bars from scratch. and both have mixing parts that i consider good exp. while ogres are now quite a bit under my a/d level.

No i do not think the drops need to be adjusted to anyone. just people need to stop whining that they do not get enough money fast enough. This is simply not a game that allows this for other people like bagjumpers and scammers to happen easily.

 

Edit just tested the ogre spwan in melinis 6 minutes fighting there got me 425gc and 5k exp while without a col i would have needed now 1 restore. calculated this up to 1 hour would mean around 4kgc an hour and about 50k exp for one hour training, in that retrospect i would say fighters have a nice way of making money (btw i am in my mid 90th of a/d and was armed with a steel sword in the test no armor)

 

Edit2 to korrode: I may not have made my point. that was, regardless of the exp a figher and a mixer can make around the same money if they work equally hard for it. and as for EXP well a fighter can make more XP an hour then anyone else in the game, but that is only at a little expense of money and with risk of armor if they fight the high level creature. all in all i find it well Balanced

Edited November 26, 2010 by vinoveritas

[korrode]

and you be on alert at the pc all the time checking.

You know i don't really care to get involved in a mixer VS fighter conversation atm but i do wanna address this one point, i choose to do so in a sarcastic manner:

 

oh gee poor you, you gotta check the PC regularly or your profit stops flowing, must be terrible.... wanna guess what happens if i look away from the PC for just a few short seconds when training trice or yeti? i die, 35kgc gone in an instant. These ain't feros or fluff or ogre that you can be half afk at. But i can see how your skill where you have to glance at the PC every min or 2 and have basically no risk of dying compares to the attention requirements and general effort of cockatrice training.

 

 

EDIT:

and @revi:

Yes I have in-depth suggestions for an entire shift in game design that I believe would lead to a better gaming experience for both mixers and fighters, but I know most of it will never happen so i'm not going to bother posting any such suggestions. I'll just stick to suggesting small nudges within the current system... like sacrificing 10% trice gc drop in exchange for a 10% reduction in it's respawn time.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Korrode

[revi]

And let's not mention that you just can't do afk mixing (try it with FE's one of these days...)

 

Not to mention fails, 'you stopped working', crit fails.

 

@Korrode: your suggestion of making tonnes of gc from training would also require deep gc sinks on the mixers' side, any suggestions? (and that's not sarcasm, in order to keep the amount of gc in game within reasonable bounds, you really need those sinks, and they must be unavoidable, so no shop items either)

 

Mixers have TONS of gc sinks

 

Let's skip the '@Korrode' bit... and not go into the rich argumentation of the statement either

 

As for the 'TONS of gc sinks' bit: which ones are unavoidable? (k, there are the tools, and sandpaper for crafters)

In this context I don't consider buying metal bars from NPC or binding stones etc. from shop a gc sink: the first is avoidable (since harvestable/mixable), the second doesn't remove gc from game (it just moves gc around). Note that critical failures in themselves are not, and have never been, a gc sink for the game.

 

Second, a player paying gc to another player is not a gc sink either, again it just moves gc around between players. So mixers paying harvesters and making a loss on sales does not create a gc sink for the game.

 

If you want an influx of tonnes of gc to be sustainable, there must be an (almost) equal outflux,

in other words, if gc enters the game (through training), it'll have to leave the game elsewhere.

 

Edit: got to see Korrode's answer after posting. I'll leave this anyway.

Edited November 26, 2010 by revi

[hussam]

A 10% reduction in respawn time and gc drops would be nice and it won't add more gcs in the game. At the end of the hour, you end up with the same around of gcs. It simply makes it easier to train trice using the right equipment nothing more.

[korrode]

A 10% reduction in respawn time and gc drops would be nice and it won't add more gcs in the game. At the end of the hour, you end up with the same around of gcs. It simply makes it easier to train trice using the right equipment nothing more.

If by 'easier' you mean bring us at least into the realm of exp/h that people like 30+ a/d under us are getting (will still be a bit less than what many feros trainers get), then ya :>

I don't think it's too much to ask considering how much more exp we need to level than they do.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Korrode

[hussam]

A 10% reduction in respawn time and gc drops would be nice and it won't add more gcs in the game. At the end of the hour, you end up with the same around of gcs. It simply makes it easier to train trice using the right equipment nothing more.

If by 'easier' you mean bring us at least into the realm of exp/h that people like 30+ a/d under us are getting (will still be a bit less than what many feros trainers get), then ya :>

I don't think it's too much to ask considering how much more exp we need to level than they do.

Yes, you can do 330k an hour on Feros at 110 a/d but you get less on higher level monsters. Also 300k/h at 110 A/D is much faster than 300k/h at 130s.

[FeLkkU]

A 10% reduction in respawn time and gc drops would be nice and it won't add more gcs in the game. At the end of the hour, you end up with the same around of gcs. It simply makes it easier to train trice using the right equipment nothing more.

If by 'easier' you mean bring us at least into the realm of exp/h that people like 30+ a/d under us are getting (will still be a bit less than what many feros trainers get), then ya :>

I don't think it's too much to ask considering how much more exp we need to level than they do.

Yes, you can do 330k an hour on Feros at 110 a/d but you get less on higher level monsters. Also 300k/h at 110 A/D is much faster than 300k/h at 130s.

You can do 400/k hr on double feros at those levels and still last like 8 hours(or more with high vit) per restock. At 130s you can only get 400k/h from better irin double yeti or maybe kj trice if youre lucky . And yet we need much more xp and last much shorter time at spawn. Not to mention MCWs before yeti, you're lucky to get 250-280k/min at high 120s/low 130s.

 

EDIT:

I'm not talking about LO, I heard theyre good but I'd need more a/d levels first.

More like a mob between feros and LO or adjusting trice to give more xp/hr(and profit would go down if gc drop and respawn was reduced, that's fine).

Edited November 26, 2010 by FeLkkU

[wuffzel]

hmm, never done pvp so im just posting an idea...

 

if its just for a/d xp per hour and getting back gc for loosing stuff in fighting,

 

what about pvp someone with same a/d and p/c 'naked' ?

 

you need only he and sr then, no worries about respawn time, just the time you need back from underworld just in case

 

could that be an alternative to creatures fighting for just xp ?

[korrode]

we don't fight them 'just' for exp.

 

and don't want to be reliant on a pvp partner being on and available for when we want to train.

 

and a bunch of other reasons that i cba again having to explain to someone no where near high level a/d training who wants to come and comment on it.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Korrode