Dugur Report post Posted June 9, 2009 There are fun little monster available to summon, but no one is bothering with them, because the recipes aren't too tempting. Just a few examples: Female goblin - iron sword. Used in mining, orc stone (better exp, lower lvl rec.), some quests. Cyclops - titanium serpent sword. Huge cost, anyone can sneeze at them and they die. (gc/xp rate too weak to even think about it) Other monsters using swords are out of question too, those s2e's and steel longs go to harvesting and if you plan to train summon with them, the xp/gc rate is too low. Summon stones are for training. These monsters with their high recommended level are a bit too... ancient. What I'm suggesting is to redo the recipes and lvl recommendations. What if the fem gob recipe was - bones + meat + life ess + green dye. If the cost was made reasonable comparing to exp, they could be poofed for exp or fun and also helps tailors. Orange dye has no use atm? Ogre: bones + meat + life ess + orange dye. Trolls with brown dye. Ofc last two aren't summonable in game, but would it hurt to make them summonable? (and oldschool white tiger too please ) Using other tailorable items can be turned to nearly any monster. What do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raz Report post Posted June 9, 2009 An very interesting idea. To level summoning atm the ONLY way is via stones.. lots of exp, lots of gc, but a real pain hauling gypsum. Until recently, summoning had no little practical use - anyone could click a stone and summon pretty much anything. The recent changes to the 'manual' summons by Radu are a great improvement - esp the multiple ACW. Summoning now has a practical use in EL. These changes mean that there would be an alternative route to sitting in the gypsum mine for hours on end, and create yet another gc sink... Apart from rats (as a distraction on mares), I think I last 'manually' summoned anything over 70 levels ago! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SenZon Report post Posted June 9, 2009 Indeed a very interesting idea dugur, i recently started summoning and i didnt bother reading some books because of huge cost VS exp (like cyc needign a ti serp when nearly anyone can kill one) so maybe mod'ing it a bit will make it more usefull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XenaMT Report post Posted June 9, 2009 Yes, interesting to be sure. I am thinking of taking up summoning myself - and looking through the summoning section of the encyc, 95% of the mobs I will never touch. However, using dyes won't really help tailors as they are available at the NPC for 25gc each (a fraction of what they cost to make). Better to use fabric or somesuch item, or fabric and saltpetre. Those mobs have to wear clothes after all! This way, the tailors win exp-wise twice and maybe can sell a few of those stock-piled coloured fabrics just sitting around storage. And if saltpetre is used as well, engineers may actually be able to unload some of the k's and k's of virtually unsellable stuff in their stores. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dugur Report post Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Ah, very valuable opinion from tailor. Tailors I know like to harv their own stuff to mix the dye, so there's work but also the extra exp from making the dyes and then dying the fabric. Dunno what is the most common. Could ofc add some fabric to the recipes, and ofc a phantom warrior is nearly pure fabric with some ess Add EDE and you get their bigger brother, maybe nasparliu even. #edit: And dunno where you get ready dyes for 25ea, it's the sell to price. Buy it for 50ea. (according to my info) I misunderstood something? Edited June 9, 2009 by Dugur Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigkav Report post Posted June 9, 2009 Yes, Summoning is very expensive to level until you get to where you can grind stones and can break even and make some profit to get back all GCs you lost. Summoning is the most fun skill in the game, to me anyways. Just very time consuming with it taking hours to gather the ings you need to level at 20s It's taken me ALOT of LE/Raw Meat/Bones but I still level it no matter how much GC I'm sinking :> (thats ofc if you don't buy them). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaulB Report post Posted June 9, 2009 I think this is a great idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aphistolas Report post Posted June 9, 2009 Yeah, I totally agree here too. The current recipes for most of the summons are virtually non-viable for all summoners. I've only begun to use the summoning panel, but I still level the skill. It would be nice to be able to level with actually summoning creatures with the ingredients suggested rather than churning out stones, however . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Riviere Report post Posted June 10, 2009 Great idea! Good motivation no matter what way it goes for people to start summ or tailor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LadyReni Report post Posted June 10, 2009 I'd rather not have summoning dependant on one more skill, it already needs alchemy, and potions and summoning itself ... so no from me for tailorable ingreedient. However I'd love to see changes in low lvl monsters formulas (as Dugur listed them). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathanstenzel Report post Posted June 10, 2009 An interesting idea, but there are few uses for iron sword besides mining. I am against the idea of removing the current female goblin recipe. That being said, if the female goblin recipe you mentioned could be added along with the current one, it might be ok. I have to wonder what the value of green dye is though. Would that make the recipe too cheap? Would people then manage to level it too quickly? Just a few questions that need to be considered before adding this recipe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KoDdy Report post Posted June 10, 2009 competition - color your own ogre Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boognish Report post Posted June 10, 2009 I would agree with you about the cyclops, no way would i use a serpent sword to summon it. There is a strong demand for s2e and steel longs, so those monsters will not be summoned much. But the other sword monsters, ti short/long, iron/broad sword. These are all ok. I summon these monsters often for points. There is an abundance of ti longs in the game so you can get them for cheap. I can also train manufacture or support a manufacturer's training by making/buying ti shorts. Most sword monsters are a way for fast points at a high cost and I think there is a place for this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KoDdy Report post Posted June 10, 2009 better than summoning cyclop are alrdy fluffies or chims... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dugur Report post Posted June 10, 2009 An interesting idea, but there are few uses for iron sword besides mining. I am against the idea of removing the current female goblin recipe. That being said, if the female goblin recipe you mentioned could be added along with the current one, it might be ok. I have to wonder what the value of green dye is though. Would that make the recipe too cheap? Would people then manage to level it too quickly? Just a few questions that need to be considered before adding this recipe. I assume you are against removing it because of manufacturing? The iron sword is much better exp used in armed orc summoning stone, which also has lower lvl needed to make. There's also chance not to lose all gc invested, for those can be used to catch ppl in PK. There will still be demand for iron swords summonwise. The costs will be made resonable when deciding the amounts of dye needed, if the idea here is reasonable enough to be brought in game. What comes to speed of leveling and the level recommendations.. the question is what is the intention of the skill and how it is wanted to be in game. I have nothing to say to that, because there's few who can decide that. All I can say, as a consumer, is that the levels needed feels a bit silly considering the usefulness of the low level monsters. I just assume it wouldn't hurt to have more ppl using the non summon stone recipes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boognish Report post Posted June 11, 2009 The iron sword is much better exp used in armed orc summoning stone, which also has lower lvl needed to make. Goblin is 300 base and you use a few meats and bones, orc stone is 400 base and you use 2 SR 10 LE and 20! gypsum. The additional ingredients are worth more than the sword and for only 100 extra points. Also iirc stone takes 5 nexus and goblin only 3. I will not disagree that some parts of summoning are out-of-whack, but this is not one of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dugur Report post Posted June 11, 2009 And the level recommended is 6 higher in the goblin recipe, rather make 5/5 stones than 4/5 goblins. Tweaking? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted June 12, 2009 The thing is, those formulas are mostly for exp. They give alot of summoning exp compared to other, low level things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted June 12, 2009 The thing is, those formulas are mostly for exp. They give alot of summoning exp compared to other, low level things. But as stated already: (gc/xp rate too weak to even think about it) Why pay 10kgc for 1k exp if you can make 10k exp with 1k gc? (ok those are not real numbers, just to explain the thing). Ok you save some mouseclicks, but that's it practically. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
