Change TD to 'new-school' (again) and make it +/- 15 CL fights?

[Light Lan]

EDIT2: lightlan if i read your post, you want a chance to pwn others that cant attack you, you want safe PK without any loss where you can train till ur strategy is the proest? lolzlolz.

Tempest makes a very good point here, i was a little worried that maybe it should only have a lower attack limit, and not upper... but ya, ppl would just use higher level PK'ers as test-beds, it'd be quite annoying actually, and as Temp said, offer a near risk-less way to test strategies.

ok, I agree. a limit both ways is better.

 

some questions:

will summons work?

note: I ask about normal summoning and not summonstones.

 

will rosto work?

(I think yes would be the better option there)

 

cooldown?

(I think there should be cooldown)

[korrode]

The poll is to restore TD to 'new-school' PK.

So, the same as KF, but with CL based attack rule.

(EDIT: Only Entropy can answer if it can be made so summons only attack people the player themself can attack)

 

Also note i just edited the original post in the thread:

EDIT: Also note, this is meant to be a vote to change it as specified, or keep it as it is. Nothing inbetween... what is your vote if the above options are your only ones.

 

I hope the addition of that doesn't change the choice of anyone who's already voted, if it does, post and say so, and i'll even edit the initial post to state the different vote.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Korrode

[Chosen]

I'd prefer it without summon stones tbh with you. Just normal summons. If not they it just ends up another GC battle with summons.

[LeoI]

how come when i suggested the combat level thing i got flamed? (including by korrode )

 

anyways voted yes, it would only be in one currently unused map and it might encourage mixers and harvesters to try pking a bit. i cant see what harm it can do and how it would affect (effect?) higher levels negatively seeing as there would still be other pk areas and how many lower levels do they kill as it is now?

[korrode]

how come when i suggested the combat level thing i got flamed? (including by korrode )

Because you suggested it for ALL of EL's PK areas, not just one map.

 

And i didn't flame you, i actually posted a link to another suggestion that would result in a similar outcome as this poll's suggestion, being that you could only attack people around your own strength in some areas but be able to attack much weaker people in other areas.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Korrode

[larrystorch]

Only usage of TD is mixing with fruits. It's not a pk map

 

Tell me about it. Last night I wandered TD for about an hour and saw nothing. Hell I even wore a BP cape hoping to entice someone to follow me into the map for a fight. Nope, nada, zip, zilch

 

At least the fluffs dropped some acc and evasion pots for me.

 

Edit: voted option #3

Edited July 15, 2008 by larrystorch

[bkc56]

I hate how everyone wants no cool-down

<cough> PK server </cough>

[korrode]

I hate how everyone wants no cool-down

<cough> PK server </cough>

Yeah... and how popular has that place proven to be? :P

 

People think they want no cooldown because all they consider is the cooldown on diss rings, but it's effects on other aspects of PK are significant, and beneficial.

 

EDIT:

Consider, for example, the effect of no cooldown on SRS.

Suddenly Mana is no problem. Anything more than 16 pp's spent on mana giving attributes is a waste for a melee fighter. So, people adjust their build for no-cooldown TD... they wont ever want to fight in KF/NCa because they wont do well there. We'll end up with 'TD builds' and it will be like it is now with the 'Arena builds' except on a much larger scale.

 

No cooldown = bad.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Korrode

[bkc56]

I hate how everyone wants no cool-down

<cough> PK server </cough>

Yeah... and how popular has that place proven to be? :P

Very popular the first few days until people realized it takes work to build a nice character and all the PK wanna-bees weren't gonna own the server in the first week. It's funny how "this place sucks" usually means "I can't get instant gratification, so I'm leaving". But now that all those wimps are gone, it's turned into a real nice place to play. Of course the PKers who did stick it out now do own the place.

 

 

 

And just a small correction: the PK server is 1 second cooldown (not no cooldown).

Edited July 15, 2008 by bkc56

[Aphistolas]

Firstly, let me say I love the idea of combat level fights, but I'd also kind of like an #arm command limit (people running around in DPa with black drag = bad) for some of the lower levels. Like, steel plate(?) limit for people below ~45 A/D? I can see how some people won't like this, but wouldn't it make the fights last much longer? (if it were the case I'd definitely start saving for some plate mail).

 

Let me address the individual points raised:

 

Summoning: I'd like it if the portion of TD which was 'new-school' prohibited the use of summoning stones. Surprisingly, I've been in fights (I'm 39/41 AD) where my opponent summoned 2-3 WT's and owned me. Stones kinda make it a battle of 'who has the most GC to spend', and yeah in 1vs1 people use them for MDing but I like multiple fights better (maybe 2-4 weak people on the one really strong person ). I like the idea of summoning skill being used though, relative to the creatures AD though, it would still be a useful skill (stand back, let one person fight your enemy(ies) and then repeatedly summon some creatures the old fashioned way).

 

I'd like to see summon more, but not with stones (unless they're only allowed in the in the old-school part of TD -- which I'd rarely venture into anyway).

 

Rostogols: If we #arm'd the new-school area I wouldn't need to carry a rostogol every time I entered really. I could go in augs/iron helm/titanium long and still have a slight chance. When someone stronger comes along, I can just go and grab some plate and a stone from storage. If people really hated each other, they'd still wear rostogols/plate, but people like me (newbs who still think 15k is a lot of money ) wouldn't be turned off by the expense. And of course everyone would still use HE/SR/break some armours/diss rings, so I don't think the flow of items from suppliers to PKers would be impeded too badly.

 

Make them work if people really wish to carry plate with them, but even without an #arm cap chances are you'll still have a chance even with augs/good strategy.

 

Cool down: If the stones weren't usable, cool down wouldn't be much of an issue to me. Like someone already stated though (Tempest?) it would just be SR after SR after restore after diss, after SR, after diss, after restore... Perhaps a reduced cool down? Like, all cool down's are 1/2? That would still be useful - but what's the CD on SRs these days anyway, 23 seconds? 12 seconds would still be enough time to die from mana depletion right?

 

Don't know what else to comment so... End

Edited July 15, 2008 by Aphistolas

[korrode]

Very popular the first few days until people realized it takes work to build a nice character and all the PK wanna-bees weren't gonna own the server in the first week. It's funny how "this place sucks" usually means "I can't get instant gratification, so I'm leaving". But now that all those wimps are gone, it's turned into a real nice place to play. Of course the PKers who did stick it out now do own the place.

Maybe u can see about getting all c1 on the PK server set to +/- 15 CL, and c2 left limitless ^^

Just a random idea, lol.

Could be good to get new ppl there too considering that 'PKers who stuck it out own the place' issue.

 

And just a small correction: the PK server is 1 second cooldown (not no cooldown).

Same diff

 

 

EDIT:

#arm

That again comes to just how fair do we want these fights to be.

I mean, it's still meant to be a Player Killing situation, and people who put in work to get those expensive items should be rewarded to a degree, no?

 

Summoning:

My personal preference would be to not allow summon stones.

But it would still be good with or without summoning stones working.

 

Cool down:

As i say in my edit in post #33, anything that could potentially result in people making char builds specifically for TD is a very bad idea. We still want KF/arenas to be used.

Any kind of messing with cooldown runs the risk of 'TD builds'

Edited July 15, 2008 by Korrode

[Vanyel]

Not to be a biased punk, but this thread looks like an attempt to disguise a suggestion as a poll.

There is a sugestion forums, why not to post topics like it there?

[Ermabwed]

There is a sugestion forums, why not to post topics like it there?

The suggestions forum limits the amount of PK threads that can be started there per week at 500 and it's already exceeded this weeks limit, hence the number of threads in general chat.

[Entropy]

It will NOT be changed.

I am tired of people saying: 'Omfg, rostos and cooldowns killed the PK". Or: "PK sucks in EL because there is no gain from it".

I want this map to be a living reminder on how this is not the case.

[LeoI]

because making it used would be a bad thing?

 

what about making it a different map then?

[korrode]

@Entropy

Is there any map, on c1 or c2, that you'd consider making (something like) +/- 15 CL?

Grubani perhaps?

(with books NPC moved to SKF, or somewhere)

Edited July 15, 2008 by Korrode

[Aphistolas]

Isn't GP a bit far from storage to be useful? TD would be good because it's within reasonable distance of DP/PL...

[korrode]

Portland sto is probably closer to GP than DP sto is to TD...

[Entropy]

because making it used would be a bad thing?

 

what about making it a different map then?

 

Do you have some fuckign crystal ball or something?

Do you think when we made TD "old style combat" we were thinkimg: "hmm, let's make this map unused"?

[TirunCollimdus]

Why not make TD a test for the combat level limit and leave it as oldschool? I think that would still make it more used. A better idea though I think is making a much smaller map like NC PK cave a test for combat level limits is better. There are harvestables there and players might go in fighting gear for harvesting. Trading EMU for the shorter distance to storage. PK harvesters. That would be cool.

 

I know you are not going to change the oldschool at all on TD Entropy but using some kind of level limiting attack option does not change the way fights work it just means more players would want to try it. Make use of the lesson as well as having it in game. This way more players would actually see how things work in TD and more players would understand why it was changed and not changed back. This actually would bring the point you are trying to make to a larger group of players including newer ones. I still like the idea about NC PK cave though. It would ROXOR!!

 

Tirun

 

EDIT: I voted not to change it to new school because it won't happen anyway. Still like the NC PK idea. The level limit fights in TD would bring more awareness to the lesson you want people to get by not changing it Entropy. The more people who use it the more people learn about the differences and eventually why changes were made and then not changed back.

Edited July 16, 2008 by TirunCollimdus

[korrode]

EDIT: I voted not to change it to new school because it won't happen anyway.

lol TC, 'because it wont happen anyway' is like the worst possible reason to vote no on something.

 

But i agree NC north cave would be an acceptable place to implement +/- 15 CL... most anywhere would be really ;p

Edited July 16, 2008 by Korrode

[Gilrain]

i think the whole debate around this is rather pointless. You wont solve any PK-problems by reducing the possibilities for players or reducing empty PK-arenas on C2 imho. It's just fine, that there are different possibilities in the game, and when pk'ers prefer to use only a few of them, then thats the choice of those players and can be different tomorrow, or when other ppl play.

The only two things with substance to be discussed seem to me the TS thing and the lvl cap for certain arenas.

i agree with this:

I am tired of people saying: 'Omfg, rostos and cooldowns killed the PK". Or: "PK sucks in EL because there is no gain from it".

I want this map to be a living reminder on how this is not the case.

 

just my 0.02 (as not-PKer)

[TirunCollimdus]

EDIT: I voted not to change it to new school because it won't happen anyway.

lol TC, 'because it wont happen anyway' is like the worst possible reason to vote no on something.

 

But i agree NC north cave would be an acceptable place to implement +/- 15 CL... most anywhere would be really ;p

 

In this case I would say that there isn't a good reason to vote at all. That means any reason to vote is equally valid.

 

NC PK cave is better than any place else because it has some stuff that is closer to storage than other places and would be extremely tempting for a lot of people. I know I would harvest there and fight off people that close to my combat level. It would be interesting to try even without harvestables but having them there is a definite draw. No other place has those qualities. It is also a short cut so another reason to run through. It could be a very active little place.

 

Tirun