Swearing in forum and game

[Entropy]

Well, I will teach my kids to be polite and courteous, so long as the other party is acting likewise.

So they will, ideally, not say: "Fucking give me the fucking block or daddy will ban your ip range", instead they will say: "Can I have that [fucking] building block, please?"

[robotbob]

@Spleenie

 

You cannot correlate the language of children to the language of adults.

 

Any sort of idealism about what your children actually say or will say is purely parental dreaming.

 

"Fuck its my dad, hide that shit. I don't want to hear another lecture"

Edited February 24, 2008 by robotbob

[Sayre]

I am not claiming it doesn't occur, or that you can compare language output of children to adults (however I do dispute that). I am simply trying to point out that it isn't virtuous and worthy of praise that a child (or an adult) would choose such words over others.

 

And what bkc says is true too, overuse of such words does dilute their efficacy.

 

Anyway, I've said my bit.

 

S.

[conavar]

Radu, maybe one day you will be blessed with a small child.

 

You will be even prouder, no doubt, on the day when, while he or she is at preschool, an argument ensues regarding the obtaining of building blocks, and. instead of a reasoned calm argument regarding the rights to the blocks, your offspring comes out with "Fucking give me the fucking block or daddy will ban your ip range"

 

Personally, I am glad my kids are able to express themselves even while "purposefully limiting themselves to a subset of the English vocabulary", and not needing to resort to shock, monosyllabic ranting and verbal bullying to get their point across.

 

S.

 

Most children are polite and dont swear infront of there parents ( its called self preservation) but go to any school yard/group of kids hanging out together etc and you will find more swearing than anywhere on these forums, all because child A doesnt swear at home its pretty short sighted to think he doesnt swear anywhere.Kids are the worst offenders for teaching each other swear words.

 

note: not aimed at your children inparticular Spleen just a general observation

 

As for swearing itself I personally dont have a problem with it, if it is used in the right context or to help express various extremes of emotion, but swearing just for the sake of using a swear word or to try to belittle someone is not really needed.

[Aranka]

I must agree that some situations call for 'bad words'; and that those words are spoken faster than you like sometimes;

 

But it would be nicer if we try to minimize the use of those words;

as they are signs of disrespect. (and in the end thats what this is about i think)

 

life can be so much easier if you take critics more lightly and not as a personal attack;

i am convinced this also lightens up the discussion around criticism.

 

another thing that couldve avoided this situation, people Will feel personally attacked if you criticise them in public, if you think someone goes to far, why not try to pm him/her about it?

 

-just my opinion

[Jezebelle]

This is getting to be a complicated topic..

 

As for swearing, i think there are 2 kinds of it:

 

1) the ones with the Lords name in it..totaly NOT needed and uncalled for in any situation.

( the true meaning of swearing, btw)

 

2) the bad words, as used by Radu ingame and on forums.

 

 

Now..the first i find totaly unacceptable, in any world, rl OR VL.

The second one i find anoying and disturbing in many situations.

But, however, in a VL world, where you cannot see the expression on someones face, or bod language, its sometimes needed to give that..extra ' oomph' to your meanings..

 

I must say, when i see Radu use those words, i imagine the look on his face while he was responding on something that made him mad or upset. I smile, and think ' oh dear, there he goes again'

In other words, i understand his frustration of that moment. The thing with writing however is, that it keeps repeating itself and therefor sounds harsher then its meant to be.

 

I am taking Radu as an example here, ofcourse, since he is King of the Topic atm, but this goes for most of the swearing i see on these forums.

It just shows commitment and dedication..

 

Dont get me wrong, i would rather dont see any of it, but I can understand the ' why'

 

Oh and as for ' words dont hurt'..please..you have NO idea how much damage words can cause..^^

 

Just my opinion,

 

*hugs*

 

Jez

Edited February 24, 2008 by Jezebelle

[Tempest]

this is my personal own oppinion about radu swearing.

(keep ur kids away from that link, not for underaged ppl )

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9xviL4-1lqo

 

i think i dont need to say more do I? gogo radu

[Enly]

Well, I will teach my kids to be polite and courteous, so long as the other party is acting likewise.

So they will, ideally, not say: "Fucking give me the fucking block or daddy will ban your ip range", instead they will say: "Can I have that [fucking] building block, please?"

I hope that was sarcasm, because if you seriously think that everyone will be all right with a little kid swearing in preschool, either you live somewhere very different from where I do, or you are sadly mistaken.

 

 

I cannot help but agree with bkc56's opinion that people who swear routinely with no real purpose for their words exhibit an inability to expresses themselves properly with the numerous other words from the english language. Yes, often times there truly is no way to better express yourself than a well placed "fuck" but some people fail to identify the proper situation in which to use the word.

 

In the case of the quote above, "Fucking give me the fucking block..." would be excessive and unnecessary swearing, however "Can I have that fucking building block?" would be appropriate had a tense situation arose. In my opinion in neither case should such words be coming from a child who is playing with blocks.

 

The level of swearing on these forums does not seem excessive in my opinion, perhaps just right. There are the occasional posts which could benefit from the omission of certain words, however for the most part I believe these forums contain a level of swearing appropriate for the age group the game is directed at.

 

Note: I loved the video about the word fuck, it is indeed a very versatile word

[Ateh]

I think the reason why the word fuck is still deemed offensive is because for centurys the human race has been told that sex is a dirty thing and to be avoided at all costs unless for pro creation.

 

Because the root of the word fucking is about sex, it still holds the power to be able to make people feel guilty or ashamed of its connotations.

 

Its a shame really, sex is a wonderful thing when its between two people who love each other. Some people even enjoy it in groups and others still would prefer to sit and watch others do it and there are still people in the world who believe its somehow an evil thing.

 

Anyway, thats how I understand things, its all about guilt and shame. Personally I dont feel particularly guilty about using words, likewise I dont feel at all guilty about enjoying sex.

 

Lucky me.

 

 

* edit * added this song by Eric Idle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj--fCSNrLc

Edited February 24, 2008 by Ateh

[peino]

"Fuck" is my favorite word in the English language. It is clear, to the point, has a thousand and one uses and moods from the most positive imaginable to the most negative imaginable, and manages somehow to have a clear meaning in every conceivable context. Yay, Anglo-Saxon verbs.

 

Also, I'm from NYC (the first 30 years of my life) where -- I mean this literally -- absolutely everyone curses a blue streak in every conversation (if you lived in NYC, you'd curse too, trust me) and "fuck you" is a friendly greeting among people who know each other. But woe unto you if you give that friendly greeting to someone you don't know, or even to a friend in the wrong circumstances (like in front of their boss or at a formal event, etc). This is because context matters, and good/bad manners is often a matter of situational awareness.

 

The key to knowing whether cursing is offensive or not, imo, is to be able to read the sentence and judge the intent of the writer. Is he expressing an emotion, or humor, or is he using the word appropriately even? Is he perhaps unaware that his topic or style is not appropriate for the situation? Or is he just being a fucking prick?

 

As Korrode pointed out, if the person's intent is to be a prick, he doesn't have to use curse words to do that. And if the person is not trying to be offensive, then I think it's unfair to blame him as being offensive just because he expressed himself with a curse word. Now, I'm not going to critique Radu's remark, which prompted this thread, because I get the feeling he doesn't want to be critiqued. But I will suggest that the above questions can be used by anyone to judge whether someone who has cursed in a post to them was trying to be offensive or not.

 

Coming from the culture I was raised in, where cursing is part of informal speech and does not carry any inherent good/bad connotations just by itself, I have never understood why other people get so upset by a few curses popping up in casual chat now and then. EL game/forums is a kind of public square. People who log into the forums and chat channels will "overhear" a lot of strangers talking about a lot of things, and you cannot control how people will express themselves any more than you can on the street. Yes, I think we should all try to maintain a polite society and not get pornographic or violently aggressive in our speech in the public channels -- or if we do offend someone and they ask us politely to drop a topic or joke, we should take it to pm or another channel. But on the other hand, I think it's ridiculous to start calling foul every time someone curses in public, or to confuse "innocent" curses with deliberate personal insults.

 

Yes, it's true, this means that Little_Timmy37 playing EL on daddy's computer might learn how to spell "fuck" or "shit", but that will not make him blind, and if he is raised with proper manners by his parents, it will not cause him to mouth off to others inappropriately, either.

 

 

EDIT to add a personal example: I sometimes nudge people if I see the word "gay" used a put-down very often in a short time in public chat. This is because I have gay friends who have to deal with homophobia in RL every day, and it bothers me to think that people might not realize how painful it is to gay people to have that word used as an insult or a curse word (as if being gay is somehow bad or laughable). At least, it bothers me, on their behalf. But I don't jump on it every time I hear/see it because it's not my job to stand in the "public square" and be the language cop. It's just if my screen is spammed up with "gay/ghay" this/that for 20 minutes at a time, I might ask the people to "take a break" from it, or otherwise try to drop a hint that they might be hurting someone's feelings by saying that. And that's not even a curse word! Just goes to show that anything can be offensive, depending on the context.

Edited February 24, 2008 by peino

[Entropy]

I hope that was sarcasm, because if you seriously think that everyone will be all right with a little kid swearing in preschool, either you live somewhere very different from where I do, or you are sadly mistaken.

It was sarcasm, of course. Like you and others said, the "fuck" word needs to be employed only in special circumstances, or else it becomes to diluted.

 

I cannot help but agree with bkc56's opinion that people who swear routinely with no real purpose for their words exhibit an inability to expresses themselves properly with the numerous other words from the english language. Yes, often times there truly is no way to better express yourself than a well placed "fuck" but some people fail to identify the proper situation in which to use the word.

 

Yes, swearing all the time can sometimes indicate that a person is not really intelligent, but it depends on the context. For example, South Park is still an work of art

[Tempest]

Yes, swearing all the time can sometimes indicate that a person is not really intelligent, but it depends on the context. For example, South Park is still an work of art

 

how long did i wait to see this somewhere !!!!!!!!

 

 

EDIT: eric cartman is retarded tho

Edited February 24, 2008 by Tempest

[Entropy]

Now, I'm not going to critique Radu's remark, which prompted this thread, because I get the feeling he doesn't want to be critiqued. But I will suggest that the above questions can be used by anyone to judge whether someone who has cursed in a post to them was trying to be offensive or not.

 

The person who posted this thread didn't get banned from the forums because I was offended by their criticism, instead the ban was for posting twice a thread that violates several forum rules. The thing is, this person only quoted one of my posts, without adding anything to it. You can't just start a thread where you say absolutely nothing.

[peino]

The person who posted this thread didn't get banned from the forums because I was offended by their criticism, instead the ban was for posting twice a thread that violates several forum rules. The thing is, this person only quoted one of my posts, without adding anything to it. You can't just start a thread where you say absolutely nothing.

That's totally true. Suncie did not follow forum rules because the OP did not express any opinion or argument about any topic, nor try to open up any kind of discussion. I was actually surprised that you didn't lock/delete this one as well, because I saw no point to it. But you didn't, and it turned into a possibly useful conversation, so I decided to join it.

 

My reference was only to the original comment of yours which Suncie quoted, which I did see in the original context in which you made it, btw. Sure, I have an opinion (I have opinions about almost everything ), but part of my opinion is that it wasn't worth reacting to in the first place, so I think Suncie was being silly starting a thread about it at all.

 

(EDIT: That bit about you not wanting to be critiqued was just teasing, btw. )

Edited February 24, 2008 by peino

[sywren]

Thank you, Suncie and the rest for attempting to preserve the purity of words like "fuck." Without you, these words be as powerful as "really" or "very". How truly boring.

 

More power to those preserving the power of language for the rest of us! How bland the English language would be without nuance, implication, connotation, or undertone.

 

 

Side note: This works conversely as well. If you are truly offended by a word, use it as frequently as possible and encourage others to as well. Nothing can strip a word of it's offensiveness more than common use.

[Arnieman]

She didn't try to start any kind of dialog or anything... but in the end, we now have a forum dialog on swearing...

 

My personal preference is not to swear under just about every circumstance - in most circumstances, I can articulate what I want to say, when it matters, without the use of profanity. In the rare instances that I have had to, or chosen to, resort to profanity, it definitely has a far greater impact - it's kinda like the difference between if someone caught an average rapper on tape swearing, and if they caught a CCM artist. In one case, if anyone made a deal out of it, they'd be laughed at; in the other, it'd be a major scandal and the end of a career - they may be lucky to work at McDonald's, but you know how them church people can be.

 

These, as any other word, become tired and old if overused - yet, they are the first to get any attention. What I mean, is if I called someone a condemned sexually-active female dog, have I not just said the same as to call them a damn fucking bitch?

 

Apologies if my words are too much, uncensored.

[Stricken]

Language is language despite where you might be.

 

Where you hear it shouldn't matter much considering your GOING to hear it eventually. I don't care if your father is the Pope of Rome you WILL hear a bit of foul language in your life.

 

Being sensitive and touchy about it is pathetic, and shows poorly on YOUR character that you'd bias people simply by the words they are using, not by the person they are. I get pissed off from time to time. I use bad language that sometimes i look back on and go I could have dealt with that better but eh who cares? I mean jesus it is only words. People need to quit being so damn touchy about it.

 

-Strick

[Enly]

Contrary to what you are saying Stricken, the majority of people who posted on this thread against swearing were not suggesting that words were offending, more immature or expressing of intellectual inferiority* when used improperly in certain contexts rather than expressing one's self with the wealth of other words available. Or, their constant overuse of the words dilute them and make them meaningless and pointless. I do not routinely swear, so when I do choose to those whom know me understand a degree of frustration/anger beyond my normal behavior.

 

I haven't seen many posts on this thread about people being "so damn touchy" about swearing

 

*Just to make it clear... I'm not suggesting that of anyone on these forums, just their are certain people in the world who swear a bit to much without the slightest clue how to utilize their words in the proper context

 

It all really comes down to context in my opinion, I really have no problem at all with sentences composed of nothing but swear words, so long as the context is correct, like Entropy stated:

For example, South Park is still an work of art

Context, thats the key

[bkc56]

Being sensitive and touchy about it is pathetic, and shows poorly on YOUR character that you'd bias people simply by the words they are using, not by the person they are.

It seems to me that some people are failing to realize that the words you use (as much as your mannerisms, gestures, actions, the way you dress, the manners or level of respect you show other, etc) ARE a part of who you are. Many of these things are choices you make based on your personality, upbringing, environment, etc. To say that the language you use is not part of who you are is like saying the length of your hair is not part of your appearance. Some you have control of (like language, or the length of your hair) and some you don't (like your eye color or your height). But they're still part of what makes you a unique individual.

 

I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other. But it's just silly to say that how you talk is not part of who you are as a person. And of course it's totally under your own control just as many other aspects that make you the person you are.

[Entropy]

Of course that the language you use reflects, in a way, your personality. But some people believe that someone whos wears a lot is uneducated, and this is just plain wrong.

[kulysoft]

All i can say is:

 

“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.

Watch your words, for they become actions.

Watch your actions, for they become habits.

Watch your habits, for they become character.

Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”

[Entropy]

Ba da-te-n pula mea... (j/k)

[LabRat]

Ba da-te-n pula mea... (j/k)

I have no idea what that says, but typing it in google yielded some very interesting results:

2. I hate myself and wanna die(III)Fa-te bine ba, da-te-n pula mea. Horatiu 2007-12-07 00:07. incepi sa mai arati a om, ba pula! p00p. mielul 2007-12-07 10:23

noisafimsanatosi.ablog.ro/2007-12-06/i-hate-myself-and-wanna-die-iii.html - 38k -

Edited February 26, 2008 by LabRat

[Raz]

Of course that the language you use reflects, in a way, your personality. But some people believe that someone whos wears a lot is uneducated, and this is just plain wrong.

Does that mean you are educated if you walk round naked?

[Arnieman]

All i can say is:

 

“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.

Watch your words, for they become actions.

Watch your actions, for they become habits.

Watch your habits, for they become character.

Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”

Haven't happened to read anything by Shad Helmstetter, have you?

 

And for anyone who thinks words are just words - try getting hit with a dictionary. But, in seriousness, why is there power in a curse if there is no power in words? Why is invoking a "right to remain silent" so important in our legal system, if words mean nothing?