Newcomers, guilds and such..

[Scorpius]

you DO know the guilds we are talking about have no common goal yeh?

except having some more letters next to their name maybe

 

Still, whining about them doesn't change the fact they exist. Instead whining, *show* them how it should work. Give them an example.

 

Fancy letters to the name aren't really needed, aight? Living without them is quite possible

 

you know what happens when you start talk to them yes?

"gimme fr33 st00f" "heal me" "help me do this quest" "protect me"

the people starting new guilds outta the nowhere are most likely those ppl that if you help em once

they will always expect that you are the Charity to em. i learned that the hard way and happily

got rid of em when i swapped chars and got namechange.

I helped alot of newcomers back in the day and i had fun with that. but if they dont show any attitude

on ever beeing able to work for therselfs it seems pointless to me.

As for the second thing lol newbies are like lil scorpies (poser) so yeh some fancy letters can make

something

 

#EDIT: i was in w&w so dont tell me not caring about newcomer projects :whistles:

Edited September 22, 2007 by Scorpius

[Vanyel]

The guild you've mentioned is actually a guild in an old style. They have a common goal. Their guildmaster is a really good RPer. Moreover, he is a fun to talk to.

[Gohan]

Well, that newbies don't learn isn't exactly the fault of us guild masters, is it? You either want to learn or not, you can go kill bunnies and start out on your own or go to the tutorial NPC. You can read the NEWBIE GUIDES written by a few players or you can just throw them aside and say "I don't care".

 

Personally, I don't accept people into LDW unless I know they're interested in the game and wish to stay. If they wish to learn more then what they know, I don't mind helping. But, most of us are quite busy ingame and I suppose not every guild master has the time to take every member through a personal course on "How to play EL, the basics." And I don't blame them, cuz you should know very well how stupid some people can be, Jez.

 

Btw, make up your mind, first you complain people beg too much and they should work for their stuff, now they finally go work for their stuff and you complain they got high level stuff without basic knowledge..

Are you going to create a new problem every time?

 

Things really just changed in EL. I can't agree more with Anshar, live with it or die leave.

 

-Blee

[Scorpius]

I dont have anything against Fury. i agree there fully with anshar. now to get back to top..

Jeze put up a quite good working Newcomer Project for those who are willing to learn .

i understand that the community has to handle this but i dont see an option how. Sure the guilds have

restrictions in lvl to let others join, which doesnt keeps em away from making their own guild cuz they

may dont want to take that time to get to the lvls (which in most case just would need a couple of days IF

they would know how).

Most newcomer who come to beam didnt even do the tutorial quest for w/e i know for reasons. I dont wanna

say EL should force em to do this quest, but on the other side it wouldnt be that bad too.

Maybe i cant show properly what i mean. im not whining about those stuff, i may dont care about it anymore

cuz it just gets frustratomg if youre trying to help em and then see what comes out of it, its sad for all

those rare diamonds that actually come into the game i think. Im sitting quite alot at beam, explaining how

to get off IP, tell em to take care what awaits em on WS, how to eat, how to lit a fire. so that cant be the

point here that the community doesnt care at all. maybe its just that not enough ppl care. but of course

we cant sit at beam 24/7 helping every newcomer that runs by. i dont think this cant only rely on the

shoulders of the community. im willing to help. but not all by myself.

Edited September 22, 2007 by Scorpius

[GarfieldClowntje]

I agree with Jeze on this one, and I also agree with most suggestions posted by people that agree with Jeze.

It isn´t that strange that I agree, since I have been active in W&W for a long time, helped with lot's of Newbie-training activities etc. (And I am a teacher IRL, so I kinda like it anyways)

 

Suggestion:

 

To MAKE guild:

Need a skill of 30 in any skill (except harvesting or OA) to make a 'specific guild' - let's say alchemy guild

Need a skill of 40 in Harvesting to make specific Harvest guild

Need an OA level of 50 to make allround guild

 

(offcourse you can add stuff like the 30k gc that is needed)

 

To JOIN guild:

Need a level 20 in the specific skill to join the specific guild

Need a level 30 in Harvesting to join a Harvest guild

Need a level 40 in any skill to join any kind of guild (level 40 potion can join alchemy guild, even if alchemy level is 0)

 

This is only a suggestion, but it makes people work a bit more before able making/joining a guild.

 

greets

[niemand]

 

Things really just changed in EL. I can't agree more with Anshar, live with it or die leave.

 

Things change in time. True. Live with it ? yes and no. Live with it means accept that things change for better and worse. And i do not accept that easily if things change for the worse. If things change for the worse you can try to make it better, otherwise, indeed, you better leave. This thread is a call to change the worse to better. Especially when it comes to community affairs it is up to the community to change things.

 

Accepting that things change for the worse is like saying "oh yes /killme please".

(why do we have moderators ? if live with it is to be our motto, then we do not need them either)

[BethAhabah]

Hi

 

It is annoying to see noobs/newbies in full tit.armor not knowing anything of the game, asking for things and to be healed.

[...]

dor a welcome- mat for newcomers since they dont know anything about our community

 

This game IS a welcome mat for newcomers.

You sound like the home owners assoc. president that says I can't have a catapult in my front yard.

 

Why quote a person on something he/she did not say at all ...

I never said : dor a welcome- mat for newcomers since they dont know anything about our community

......... quote correctly or do not quote at all, please .......

Do not put words in my mouth I never said ... that is hurtfull and annoying.

 

 

By the way ...

It is not about elitism ... it more like driving a car but not knowing where the brake is ... that is what is meant by finding it annyoing to see newbies in full tit. armor and not even knowing the basics of the game and asking for stuff all the time. I get noobs asking me for these things, following me and then getting angry that they do not get the stuff I do not have nor can not even make yet. I work hard at things ... why should they get rich over my back?

 

And now I'll rest my case.

 

Bye,

 

BethAhabah

[Linuxgirlie]

How do you know if it is n00bs or a persons second char? I was originally linuxgirlie and then I quit and killed my char, I then decided to come back and create foxblade, she has crap levels at the moment (between 0-27) but I decided to splash out on good armor, I joined my previous guild LNX as soon as I hit 20 harv....but I am a previous player, but I could also be confused for one of those 'low-level' chars at beam.

 

I do agree that people should play a little more, maybe make the skills of a Guild Leader higher(?) or make sure that no skill is a 0, but where do you draw the line?

Edited September 22, 2007 by Linuxgirlie

[GarfieldClowntje]

I see nobody reacting on my suggestion

 

 

How do you know if it is n00bs or a persons second char? I was originally linuxgirlie and then I quit and killed my char, I then decided to come back and create foxblade, she has crap levels at the moment (between 0-27) but I decided to splash out on good armor, I joined my previous guild LNX as soon as I hit 20 harv....but I am a previous player, but I could also be confused for one of those 'low-level' chars at beam.

 

I do agree that people should play a little more, maybe make the skills of a Guild Leader higher(?) or make sure that no skill is a 0, but where do you draw the line?

 

 

Well, if you think the suggestion about 'specific' guilds a bit over, you can easily join a guild when you have sweat a little ingame and you can even join ANY game if you sweat a little more!

 

We all know the EXP-fall at lvl 40 and how annoying it is to get there so it takes some to get to the place you want or need to be. If you like to join a group of friends who happen to be in a potion guild ... and you like alchemy better ... you need to get lvl 40 before joining them.

 

You are at least a bit longer in the game before you can even think of joining a guild!

 

Wouldn't fix the whole problem, but at least do something about it

[Linuxgirlie]

Sorry GarfieldClowntje, I missed your post!! I agree with your suggestions, it seems a fair proposal but I would have the specific higher and the non-specific lower. Actually make that swapped around. So:

 

To JOIN guild:

Need a level 40 in the specific skill to join the specific guild

Need a level 35 in Harvesting to join a Harvest guild

Need a level 30 in any skill to join any kind of guild.

Edited September 22, 2007 by Linuxgirlie

[Aphistolas]

In my opinion; the world changes, you adapt and deal with it and the chance of "finding a newb/n00b wearing full tit. armor" is... well... a load of bullshit. By definition, you cannot be a newbie and own/wear titanium armor. Beth, if a n00b owns full titanium, why in the seven hells would he/she be ASKING you for things?

 

People learn, 'we've' got an army of players who are willing to share their knowledge. I'd really like to see an example of a GM who doesn't know how to light fires .

 

As for the items: I stuck with augmented leather and a Steel Long/ 2 Edge for a while. I'm an all-rounder (Still quite low in certain skills, ((no Eng. exp)) but an all-rounder nonetheless) so I own a few capes - Conjurer, Excavator, Monster Magnatism, Fast Regernation - and I'd like very much NOT to see my hardwork, money, going to waste by increasing the requirements.

 

Personally I believe I am no longer a "n00b / newb" to E.L. there is still a lot to learn, but - at least - I've got all the basics down. My Guild (MaGE) have helped me significantly with this, I owe many thanks to them.

 

If people want to join guilds with 20 Harvesting exp. I say, let them! The GM will decide.

 

(Aphistolas, away!)

Edited September 22, 2007 by Aphistolas

[Jezebelle]

I am aware tht things change. I am also aware that there are more people in this World now. And Im not asking for a 'return of the old times' Dont forget I have lived through all the changes here, the roll backs, the item wipes, the stats wipe, the Big Boom, where we all lost our chars. So i had my share of changes and learned to live with it, its a set thing to accept material changes in life as well as it is on here.Sure, i had my complaints and doubts on the changes, like the cooldown feature, but i live with it, coz it was the choice of our Maker.

This, however, has NOTHING to do with choices of our Maker, this is a community issue.

So dont tell me to live with it or leave, coz this issue CAN be changed, if we all see the problem, that is!

 

And no, I am not speaking of those who make a come-back to Eternal Lands, I am speaking of true newcomers. But you know what? I have even disquised so-called newcomers who begged and tried to gain items 'becuase they were new' Thats low, imo, pretending to be a newcomer while you are actualy not!

 

Yes, guilds are a group of people sharing the same name, sharing the same goals..at least..they should be. I dont see how we can make requirements for a guild to excist or behave once they are made, but we can make it harder to create a guild. Just as we can make it harder to have newcomers running around in expensive armor, while they dont even know how to equip or unequip it, or without even know what its used for. It will give less whining about loosing it too, and that way loose lesser newcomers from our World.

Newcomers tend to leave this World sooner when they loose expensive items.

I see this as a protection to those who are new and unexperienced.

 

Make them do a basic training before they can join any guild, perhaps.

 

Thanks for all the support btw, you guys, Im glad the majority here sees this my way too!

 

Jez

[Aphistolas]

Oh really now, I loathe arugments that are started on blown out of preportion "facts".

 

"Expensive armor" with newbies? What, Augmented leather is expensive these days ?

 

Some people seem to think if a person has lower skills than them, they are a n00b/newb/newbie/newcomer/BJer/long-lost-grandmother and should not be as respected this is NOT the case. IIRC: My GM's have no skills above 100, but they know a hell-of-a lot about Eternal Lands.

 

Is it really fair that some (Example*) PKer guild with a GM who has 130/110 A/D have more of a say than my GM's because he/she has higher skills?

 

* Not meant to offend.

[ville-v]

I agree with Jeze on this one, and I also agree with most suggestions posted by people that agree with Jeze.

It isn´t that strange that I agree, since I have been active in W&W for a long time, helped with lot's of Newbie-training activities etc. (And I am a teacher IRL, so I kinda like it anyways)

 

Suggestion:

 

To MAKE guild:

Need a skill of 30 in any skill (except harvesting or OA) to make a 'specific guild' - let's say alchemy guild

Need a skill of 40 in Harvesting to make specific Harvest guild

Need an OA level of 50 to make allround guild

 

(offcourse you can add stuff like the 30k gc that is needed)

 

To JOIN guild:

Need a level 20 in the specific skill to join the specific guild

Need a level 30 in Harvesting to join a Harvest guild

Need a level 40 in any skill to join any kind of guild (level 40 potion can join alchemy guild, even if alchemy level is 0)

 

This is only a suggestion, but it makes people work a bit more before able making/joining a guild.

 

greets

Why not following?

 

To make:

1 million gc

100 in any skill

 

To join:

60 in any skill

 

That would remove all "bad" guilds and only leave them for elite who knows how to play, so all would be happy

[Aphistolas]

To make:

1 million gc

100 in any skill

 

To join:

60 in any skill

 

That would remove all "bad" guilds and only leave them for elite who knows how to play, so all would be happy

 

No, it would destroy 90% of the guilds currently operating. Remember, not everybody has high skills like you (might); try to see if from a non-newbie with highest skill in the 40/50's shoes.

Edited September 22, 2007 by Aphistolas

[Jezebelle]

Oh really now, I loathe arugments that are started on blown out of preportion "facts".

 

"Expensive armor" with newbies? What, Augmented leather is expensive these days ?

 

Some people seem to think if a person has lower skills than them, they are a n00b/newb/newbie/newcomer/BJer/long-lost-grandmother and should not be as respected this is NOT the case. IIRC: My GM's have no skills above 100, but they know a hell-of-a lot about Eternal Lands.

 

Is it really fair that some (Example*) PKer guild with a GM who has 130/110 A/D have more of a say than my GM's because he/she has higher skills?

 

* Not meant to offend.

 

 

I wasnt talking of newcomers in leather armor..as you could have read if you took the time to read properly.

And Im not saying ppl with higher stats are '' better' or 'more respected'

 

In fact, HIGH stats dont mean a thing to me, regular stats do, however, they tell me you at least know the rules, and the way we lives this Eternal Live.

[ville-v]

No, it would destroy 90% of the guilds currently operating. Remember, not everybody has high skills like you (might); try to see if from a non-newbie with highest skill in the 40/50's shoes.

Well, why should there be a lot of guilds or why guilds should be for basically everybody who has been playing for two weeks?

 

If guild is made only for some friends who want to chat and help each other, why not joining a random channel and doing the same, except without those four letters next to name? If maximum of three channels is problem, it could be increased.

 

IIRC, JezeBelle's guild already does this with some members.

Edited September 22, 2007 by ville-v

[Aphistolas]

I wasnt talking of newcomers in leather armor..as you could have read if you took the time to read properly.

And Im not saying ppl with higher stats are '' better' or 'more respected'

 

In fact, HIGH stats dont mean a thing to me, regular stats do, however, they tell me you at least know the rules, and the way we lives this Eternal Live.

 

It was not directed at you, just at the people talking about newbies running around in expensive armor. When I say "better" I mean, (if it was harder to make a guild) people with higher skills would be thought... well, better because they can create Guilds.

 

It took some reading of that last sentence but I think I got it; You're saying that people with higher stats know the rules? I dont see how this is true. Especially since some higher stats people dont even have the basics down. (As various people - including you - have said)

 

EDIT: Stop posting so fast! It's getting difficult trying to load more shells. Perhaps some of these "newbies" to Guilds should come post their thoughts.

Edited September 22, 2007 by Aphistolas

[GarfieldClowntje]

Sorry GarfieldClowntje, I missed your post!! I agree with your suggestions, it seems a fair proposal but I would have the specific higher and the non-specific lower. Actually make that swapped around. So:

 

To JOIN guild:

Need a level 40 in the specific skill to join the specific guild

Need a level 35 in Harvesting to join a Harvest guild

Need a level 30 in any skill to join any kind of guild.

 

This would really not make any sense imo lol

You could join an alch guild with either 40 in alchemy or 30 in any other skill?

 

The height of the skills I suggested can be changed and altered offcourse (but ville-v it is just absurd what you are talking about for real!)

 

You are probably right that in the 20-30-40 (original) the lvl 20 required is a bit to low, you easily get there.

 

In the original idea you need a higher other skill to join a strange to your skills - guild.

Thát makes sence to me.

 

It is not my profession, but hey! I can do something else really good and can be an asset to the group!

 

what you are suggesting makes it easier again, while I wanted to make it harder!

 

The number to JOIN a guild should be higher probably

maybe more like:

30 to join specific

35 to join harvest

40/higher? to join any -strange- guild.

[Ermabwed]

I wonder what knowing how to make a fire has to do with anything, that's mostly useless knowledge. Players that know how to light a fire are either lazy bums lounging on Isla Prima or ominous role players, beware!

[Aphistolas]

No, it would destroy 90% of the guilds currently operating. Remember, not everybody has high skills like you (might); try to see if from a non-newbie with highest skill in the 40/50's shoes.

Well, why should there be a lot of guilds or why guilds should be for basically everybody who has been playing for two weeks?

 

Define: Guild

 

club: a formal association of people with similar interests

 

So, you're saying that if I have been playing for "two weeks" and am REALLY interested in developing my skills I cant join a guild? Here I thought all people were at least somewhat equal in Eternal Lands.

 

If guild is made only for some friends who want to chat and help each other, why not joining a random channel and doing the same, except without those four letters next to name? If maximum of three channels is problem, it could be increased.

 

How do any Guilds get started? If this happened, quite literally NO guilds would exist.

IIRC, JezeBelle's guild already does this with some members.

 

Well, good to know

 

@Jez: Anyway, what gives (hee-haw) the power to decide who makes a Guild? Really, I'm sorry if whatever tradition that was here here has dissolved but that's just the way the cookie crumbles, hunny .

 

(Really I'm not trying to be hostile, apologies If I've come off sounding rather grumpy)

Edited September 22, 2007 by Aphistolas

[Jezebelle]

[quote

 

@Jez: Anyway, what gives (hee-haw) the power to decide who makes a Guild? Really, I'm sorry if whatever tradition that was here here has dissolved but that's just the way the cookie crumbles, hunny .

 

(Really I'm not trying to be hostile, apologies If I've come off sounding rather grumpy)

 

 

Its not a question of WHAT gives that 'power'as you put it, we are a community here, and WE need to decide how we want the community to be like.

Now, if the majority here thinks there should be some changes, then there MIGHT come changes..whetter that is forced upon by our Maker or done by the community itself.

 

Jez

 

I wonder what knowing how to make a fire has to do with anything, that's mostly useless knowledge. Players that know how to light a fire are either lazy bums lounging on Isla Prima or ominous role players, beware!

 

 

I used making a fire as an example of basic skills. And useless knowledge? hm..I dissagree, that skill is very usefull for newcomers to be able to make anything happen, and it gives them a sense of pride when they can actaly make something happen thats usefull for others as well. Spend some quality time at beam and you will see what I mean.

 

Jez

[robotbob]

Why quote a person on something he/she did not say at all ...

I never said : dor a welcome- mat for newcomers since they dont know anything about our community

......... quote correctly or do not quote at all, please .......

Do not put words in my mouth I never said ... that is hurtfull and annoying.

 

Sorry it was in fact a failure to add a "quote" tag before.

 

By the way ...

It is not about elitism ... it more like driving a car but not knowing where the brake is ... that is what is meant by finding it annyoing to see newbies in full tit. armor and not even knowing the basics of the game and asking for stuff all the time. I get noobs asking me for these things, following me and then getting angry that they do not get the stuff I do not have nor can not even make yet. I work hard at things ... why should they get rich over my back?

 

Still again why do you say full titanium armor? You say that is annoying. Apparently its not about the brake,

but the luxury car you think "that type" shouldn't have. How again is this not Elitism?

 

How do these horrible noobs have both NMT\Full Titanium Armor and somehow

only get this via begging? If someone if giving away NMT if you beg hard enough...

 

"gimme one plz!!!!!!!!"

 

Its not a question of WHAT gives that 'power'as you put it, we are a community here, and WE need to decide how we want the community to be like.

 

You and what elected offical gets to decide? No,, its a game and people will play it as the game is designed

and it doesnt take a little "council" to govern how people should play it.

[conavar]

Noobs having high end armour /nmt/cols etc etc etc ... hmmm where is the problem ?

 

I dont care if noob A sitting on IP with OA 5 has full dragon armour on, who cares?, doesnt affect myself.

 

I know that personally i have earned all the items I own by hard work (alch etc) and im happy about that fact. I take PRIDE in what I have accomplished with my character since it was first created, what other people do with there char is there business not mine.

[Jezebelle]

 

 

Its not a question of WHAT gives that 'power'as you put it, we are a community here, and WE need to decide how we want the community to be like.

 

You and what elected offical gets to decide? No,, its a game and people will play it as the game is designed

and it doesnt take a little "council" to govern how people should play it.

 

 

Erm..where did I say me and 'elected official's 'get to decide? I said its up to the community..