Newcomers, guilds and such..

[Jezebelle]

Hey all,

 

Im sorry,, but I have to get something said here.

I am amazed, saddned, mad and dissapointed..

I spend lots of time at beam and more and more I see new members of our community wearing expensive armor and weapons. Now, thats not a problem, you would say.

 

Well, I think it becomes a problem when I see those same members hurt at beam and not even capable of healing thmeselves..even worse..not even capable of making a fire..They dont ahve the basic skills to do anything realy, but look good in their fancy armor and slash our Worlds' creatures.

 

I'll take it one step further; alot of the players I just mentioned, wear a tag..are ven guildmasters!

 

What am i so upset about?

The fact that our world is changing so much..no.the community is changing..and in my eyes..not for the better.

In my days..it was an honour to be able to wear a tag..and you were proud..coz whe you had a tag of some respectable guild, you felt..you finaly found a place in this World.

Everyone who would see your tag would know you earned your way in there, that you worled hard.

 

And, owning a guild..wow..that was even more amazing! Everyone would know you had te skills, the cach and the knowledge to own and run a guild.

 

Nowadays..everyone with harvest skill 20 wants to join a guild..Why? well..not to gain experience or knowledge, thast for sure !!(a few exceptions are to be expelled from this remark!!)

Because I run into SO many folks wearing a tag, who dont even know how to heal themselves, or read the basic books, or even, cook food..

Thats the GM to blame, in my opinion..I think a good gm wont have his guildies running without any significant knowledge. I truly think its a disgrace for a gulid and its guildmaster to have members who lack any basic skills or knowledge.

 

Does everything revolve around the quantity of a guild, rather then the quality?

And again..the guilds from the 'old days' still have this honour..and some of the new ones too..but most..dont..and that saddnes me deeply..beczuse it doesnt give a good example to our newcomers..again..in my humble opinion..

 

Perhaps there should be new ruling on guilds..or armors..armors not just related to nexus, but skills as well, like it was in te old days.

I remember you could only wear the white cape (which was mm cape then) when you had a level 30 in potion..and I remember when my guildmaster bought it for me the day i hit 30 in potions..I think i never was more proud then at that moment!

 

I would very much like to see a little of the old system back again..

 

in peace,

 

JezeBelle

Proud mistress of the Wicans & Witches (W&W)

[Vanyel]

Live with it or leave. Worlds changes. Game changes. Community has changed as well, there is no exception. Whether it is worse or better than used to be... this is a question everybody has answer oneself.

[rmiles]

I share your concerns Jez. I too see a lot of players who belong to guilds who don't have the basic knowledge needed in the game.

[Creedka]

That is true. Joining a guild is not a problem, maaaaaany of the guilds ask everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) without a tag who looks like a newbie to join their guild. I have a newbie character and I even thought of making a guild just for her so I can finally breathe and not answer all the 'wanna join?' questions.

 

Anyway, as Anshar pointed out, the community has changed, everything has changed. I've seen so many examples of that in the last few months/weeks I finally start to agree with the "it is not like the old days" statement.

 

Anyway, Jez is right, there is no more of the specialness and pride of wearing a tag because everyone can have A tag.

Of course, there is a difference between tags...but still: what's the point in having guilds that have a newbie GM who earned his money harving flowers, made the guild quickly, advertised and got some other even more newbie members? The GMs very often only ask players to join and then leave them. Don't teach them anything, don't help them. Also leave the game very fast themselves.

Such guilds should be somehow deleted. Or the process of making a guild should be changed.

 

 

 

Well, just my two cents of bitterness that I'm feeling lately.

[Deified]

Yeah when I wear my Harv Cape im always liek "look at me im pro fighter w/ my fighter cape"

 

Games always change like this as they get bigger, I used to play Runescape back in the day when it was a tiny game, everyone knew each other and we had a laugh, much like on EL. Nowadays there are (10x?) worlds, and a silly amount of players, which means the community has gone to poo. This will always happen when games get larger player bases. More people playing = more items/levels/guilds = devalues them. The only way to stop it is to stop the game getting bigger, which for an MMO is not so good.

[conavar]

Problem ? hmmm not sure. most of the guilds run by newbies fall by the way side anyway and most of the experienced players know which are the good/long standing guilds .

 

Take your guild Jez.. Im sure it would still be an honour for ppl to wear the W&W tag but they have to learn to.. if that means they start off in a "newbie guild" learning the ropes then so be it .

 

stupid example: 100's and 100's of car makers in the world but most people know which are the good ones

[Wizzy]

This may be true. But it doesnt take a serious player to distinguish between the "toomass,quimblys,luciferx,etc,etc" to know who the top players are... (and I apoligise to those I left out there are too many to name) which is why everyone knows the guilds like CEL PKG *co* *r* etc, for there contributions and having knowedgeable people. The new guilds for the most part fade to shawdow. Unless they are extreamly dedicated folks.

[thelethalmoo]

i moastly dont like it if they think thier 10 times better than yo cuz they have better stuf :/ people like that are rear but still gets anoying some how alot of ppl get given free stuff by thier friends and things like that but im ok if theyve put in hard work to get thier items

[LevinMage]

As time passes there are always going to be more new people entering the game, while some older players that you know leave the game. Sometimes, if you just look at the names of people/friends that you know, it can seem like the community is changing when in fact it is just that your base of friends in the community is shrinking. The community remains the same, but your perception/interaction with the community is just a smaller slice than it used to be. I know this doesn't explain everything, but I think contributes to what some of the older players feel. People may have a tendency to stick with one minimally changing/growing group of friends, so when some of them leave, you feel like the "whole community" is changing, when in reality just your small part of it is. I know that some guilds are established and take in fewer members, but maybe they need to adopt more younger players in to build back their own "personal community" in the game.

Edited September 21, 2007 by LevinMage

[Marr]

maybe the only thing that solve this problem is a full wipe & and implementing permadeath

 

but honestly, i think there isnt a real problem. all ppl who dosent fit into this world usualy leaveing it pretty fast.

too many guilds? maybe, but if you raise the requirements or something you lose the abilty to prejudge all the nice bagjumper peeps

 

This may be true. But it doesnt take a serious player to distinguish between the "toomass,quimblys,luciferx,etc,etc" to know who the top players are... (and I apoligise to those I left out there are too many to name) which is why everyone knows the guilds like CEL PKG *co* *r* etc, for there contributions and having knowedgeable people. The new guilds for the most part fade to shawdow. Unless they are extreamly dedicated folks.

 

haha! dont make ppl start flamewars here ;P

you mentioned a few things here that made me laugh

[robotbob]

Did you actually say you don't want beginners to enjoy a group experience or have access to better armor and weapons?

 

I think its their right to:

 

* Form their own group without your permission.

* Or wear better armor than leather.

 

Sure hope they can live up to your standards soon

 

And, owning a guild..wow..that was even more amazing!

 

Wow! I have 30k and typed a command! w00t

 

I am amazed, saddned, mad and dissapointed..

 

It seems alot 'saddens" you in this game. At some point you have lost touch with reality. Its a game

and other people are going to play it (and maybe) in a way different from you.

 

Plus I love a well armed and adventurous newbie guild. I can hardly keep up red tagging them all

 

he new guilds for the most part fade to shawdow. Unless they are extreamly dedicated folks.

Problem ? hmmm not sure. most of the guilds run by newbies fall by the way side anyway and most of the experienced players know which are the good/long standing guilds .

 

Bam! exactly

 

The truth is the little small town community must die in order for EL to grow. No long term ingame

cronyism can persist a game. Every new player that doesn't meet your standards, to me is insurance this

game continues to grow.

 

By making it hard for beginners to: level, make guilds or enjoy anything in the game and require 6 months

before they can do anything is just nonsense. Your expectations of people playing a computer game are a tad

high.

 

Sorry, its late evening, post 1-2 liters of coffee. I'm in full combat mode.

[Mugwump]

I can see Jez's point, although I'm not too worried.

 

I do remember the rule that required a skill over 20 (other than harvest) to join a guild was generally enforced. My first character took that long to get to know anyone well enough to join with them, and yes there was a great pride from that. Maybe that should be again the rule.

 

Another thing I've noticed is loads of names nearly the same as others or NPC/bot names and not really following the original suggestions on the website of names following the game theme (no Star Trek or cartoon names etc.) At the moment I'm harv'ing next to a LOTR character with an extra letter at the end of his name.... I did try to PM a player with a very simple four letter name and got a message of "Too many names like that....." and a Guild Tag with an accent or umlaut in it that the client wouldn't identify. All this creates more strangers than friends, not to mention lots of non-English in busy local chat (that's no problem for me, but again more strangers than friends.)

 

As for the armor.... they're bound to lose it if they train in it as newbies, don't know if that affects the price of armor (and weapons) for the manu'ers, but it's bound to become a learning experience.

 

Meanwhile we had a newbie in EL Chat (ch #4) earlier and we all teamed up and doled out some good advice making for good teamwork and fun for all. The game isn't going downhill IMHO, but it is moving along at a quick pace!

[Mauler]

happens in most games with 'item malls'

newbies get really addicted to the game and spend their pocket money on tit plates

instant-pro

Edited September 22, 2007 by kansle

[masterpiter]

Plus I love a well armed and adventurous newbie guild. I can hardly keep up red tagging them all

U can always leave all guilds with normal/standard tag like i did, less work, less worring and u can attack any1 anyways

 

There was suggestion to make guilds harder to make, also i think i somewhere read about guild lvls, depended on guild member's number/lvls/some achievments/quests made.

 

New players with high-end items is another topic, i remember Entropy wanted eL to have exactly such a possibility:

If u r new and can afford pr0 armor u can wear it if u have nexus, u dont need any skill lvls for it.

And im fine with it as long as those players enter pk maps w/o learning secret very well hidden knowledge what r rostogol stones for

 

mp

[Jezebelle]

Live with it or leave. .

 

 

That a bit easy aint it, Anshar?

 

Why shouldnt I express my concerns here? This is my World too, you know..

If we all lay down and give up when we see something bad happening or changes in the community we dont like, nothing WILL chnage.

And by the looks of the posts Im not the only one that feels this way.

 

Someone asked me here if I wouldnt allow newcomers to wear armor or join guilds.

No, thats NOT what I mean. And I also dont mean that leveling should be harder.I mean I miss the team spirit.

Someone took my own guild as an example. Yes, we take in newcomers, but not untill they did basic training! And after that, we take em by the hand and guide them further into our World. My guild offers free basic training for newcomers that are "hand-picked',so to speak by us. After they finnish, they are free to leave or can apply for a tag with us.

 

I heard someone say here 'alot seems to saddnen you' Yes..it does, so? Am I not alowed to? I have been here long enough to earn the right to speak freely about these things. And when i see the World I love turning into a somewhat RS like community I speak up.

 

Eternal Lands is a World NOT just made for Fighters. I wanna fight TOO..: dor a welcome- mat for newcomers since they dont know anything about our community when they enter. and have no idea about quality- or quantity guilds!

 

Jez

[niemand]

I think it would be a good idea to set higher demands for creating a guilds.

 

I think too many guild lessen the value of guilds and what guild can mean for or do for the community.

Especially while EL is getting bigger and bigger the role of guilds and their possibillities for guidance is getting bigger and bigger too.

I think this is a nice "wake up call" from Jezebelle.

[Mugwump]

Ooo! How about a temporary moratorium (freeze) on guilds?

Come 01/01/08, no new guilds as an experiment.

 

I feel awkward at the moment being the only person in a guild and not the GM, but that's an oddball situation, and a whole 'nother thread! I've heard there are some other lost guildies wandering around with little or no purpose.

[peeper :)]

I do have to agree with Jeze on this, high level players that are gm's and dont even know how to light a fire or heal themselves does sounds worrying to me.

[Scorpius]

I have to agree totally with jeze. Groups can be built without having a guild (i saw some newbies

at beam just arranging a lil team to go do something together without creating a guild).

There isnt basically a serious problem with the guilds popping out from nowhere leaded by noobs

but i think a guild should be something someone really worked his ass for.

I mean you can get to the lvls and money to create a guild in less than 1 day. Which doesnt make

sense to me since a guild is something deeper, would dare to say something more powerful.

 

Im all for it for a higher lvl requirement and money requirement maybe to make your own guild/wear

specific armors. i wouldnt mind not beeing able to wear my dragon anymore even *gulps*

Now serious some higher skill requirement may be not such a bad idea.

 

In order to have newbies still making groups, such a thing like a party system may not be that bad

of an idea. where they have something like a #gm chat (#pr?) where they can talk about plannings

and such.

 

Anyways thats just my few cents in my humble oppinion.

[BethAhabah]

Hi

 

It is annoying to see noobs/newbies in full tit.armor not knowing anything of the game, asking for things and to be healed.

They seem to look for the easy way ... the 'just-want-to-fight-way' ... the 'otherwise-not-give-a-damn-way'.

I used to like helping/teaching beginners, as I was helped/taught when I was one ... but the access to 'high level armor' is to easy and take away the fun of making and selling these things for a creative player like me ...

Make things a little harder for beginners to get (not the leveling) and teach them at the beginning the rules, beggars are to be told not to and told how to do it themselves ... learn to be a proud player, proud of more then just wearing sfuff.

 

So, good point JezeBelle!!!

 

Just wanted to share my thoughts on this matter ...

 

Bye,

 

BethAhabah

Edited September 22, 2007 by BethAhabah

[robotbob]

Hi

 

It is annoying to see noobs/newbies in full tit.armor not knowing anything of the game, asking for things and to be healed.

[...]

dor a welcome- mat for newcomers since they dont know anything about our community

 

This game IS a welcome mat for newcomers.

You sound like the home owners assoc. president that says I can't have a catapult in my front yard.

 

 

This thread should be retitled "Elitism"

 

 

Titanium Armor is the new leather Just because it wasn't available to you doesn't mean it shouldn't

be available to them. As a pker, more people in "good stuff' I good for me, the game and the economy.

 

the 'just-want-to-fight-way' ... the 'otherwise-not-give-a-damn-way'.

 

Some of us like to fight, and the faster those noobs get into kf the better. Some of us don't

play EL to hold hands in IP and tell stories. "...and the older cranky bear said, in my day we had to hunt our

food, none of this easy pinic basket craziness led by that upstart yogi" Well I suck at stories.

 

but the access to 'high level armor' is to easy and take away the fun of making and selling these things for a creative player like me ...

Make things a little harder for beginners to get (not the leveling)

 

Ill refer you to my nifty image and link above.

 

Which doesnt make

sense to me since a guild is something deeper, would dare to say something more powerful.

 

A guild is a collection of players with a common goal, their common goal can be to learn how to eat

 

Lets do something that reinforces elitism, no new guilds unless they are voted upon by a handful of

people that have played for more than 1 yr. Oh please don't take that as a real suggestion, merely a sarcastic

one

[Vanyel]

 

 

Titanium Armor is the new leather Just because it wasn't available to you doesn't mean it shouldn't

be available to them.

 

Surprisingly wise. I could sign under this one with my both hands.

It's not items what makes community. It is people. I'm honestly tired with people saying:

When I was starting playing everything was better.

It's just picking up easy solution - complaining. Instead of limiting items, guild creation, and similar artificial solutions just give a good example.

If you're sick with guilds created by newbies for newbies and lead in newbie way, look at your joining information and decide whether adding a/d 50/50 required or any other skill over 40 is a way to go. I remember that Riva had an academy (not sure if it is still working), but it's, honestly, the solution that should be followed.

Instead of sitting and whining do something. Stop living with the past. It ain't coming back.

[Scorpius]

you DO know the guilds we are talking about have no common goal yeh?

except having some more letters next to their name maybe

 

#Edit: dunno what youre talking about anshar. saw noone saying we want old times back.

there were only ppl saying that back in the days it was an honour to have an own guild or

to join one. This is basically about RP, joining a group or running one with (like robotbob stated)

a common goal. But barely any of the newly created guilds show any of that attitude which

kinda destroys the RP for me.

And you sounding like we should just not care and dont speak up about it sounds like we should

just give a damn about RPing in a mmorpg? Correct me if i understood wrong, my english still

aint the best so i maybe overread something

Edited September 22, 2007 by Scorpius

[Vanyel]

you DO know the guilds we are talking about have no common goal yeh?

except having some more letters next to their name maybe

 

Still, whining about them doesn't change the fact they exist. Instead whining, *show* them how it should work. Give them an example.

 

Fancy letters to the name aren't really needed, aight? Living without them is quite possible

 

And you sounding like we should just not care and dont speak up about it sounds like we should

just give a damn about RPing in a mmorpg? Correct me if i understood wrong, my english still

aint the best so i maybe overread something

 

 

It's just picking up easy solution - complaining. Instead of limiting items, guild creation, and similar artificial solutions just give a good example.

If you're sick with guilds created by newbies for newbies and lead in newbie way, look at your joining information and decide whether adding a/d 50/50 required or any other skill over 40 is a way to go. I remember that Riva had an academy (not sure if it is still working), but it's, honestly, the solution that should be followed.

Instead of sitting and whining do something. Stop living with the past. It ain't coming back.

 

It looks like you do not care, just speak up and do nothing more about it. If you had read my post to the end you would probably got to the part quoted above. Actually, creating academy guilds doesn't sound like 'not caring and not speaking up about it and giving a damng about RPing in a mmorpg'.

Edited September 22, 2007 by Anshar

[Kaddy]

In my days..it was an honour to be able to wear a tag..and you were proud..coz whe you had a tag of some respectable guild, you felt..you finaly found a place in this World.

 

Ye i totally agree with you Jez. It was an honour to be in a guild but now...There is even scammer guilds!!!