Apprentice shops

[Entropy]

I have this idea:

Make the Tutorial NPC guy offer the newbies an option to go to an apprentice shop, where pr0s will be able to assign n00bs various tasks, for example harvest this, or make essences, etc.

The newbies would get the experience, while the pr0s will get the end product for free (they will have to provide the ingredients).

 

Now, of course, there is the issue of scamming. For example, someone might make a new character to scam people of their ingredients. While doing so is not against the game rules, transferig the ingredients between the n00b account and the main char is against the rules.

Of course, it's a good idea to actually give the newbies a limited number of ingredients in the beginning, until you can fully trust them, as our moderation abilities are limited and we'd rather not be bothered with petty thefts.

 

So my question is, would you, as a guild, be interested in such a program? That means, would you be able and willing to send a guild representative in the aprentice shops, to talk with the newbies, explain them what to do, provide them with tasks, and so on? While this feature is mostly targeted at guilds, individual player can benefit from this thing to, so long as they are willing to go to those apprentice shops every once in a while.

 

This will be a semi official program, and abusers will be punished. This works both ways, of course.

[Happy_G]

sounds interesting, its something i would have liked while i was a newbie and didnt know how to make fire essences......i have alot of FE's to make, i might use it a bit in that case if its to help newbies.

[The_Knight]

I am a n00b and a trustworthy one at that, I will so do some ess and bar jobs! Great idea

Edited October 23, 2006 by The_Knight

[ttlanhil]

that sort of thing sorta happens in chan3 (without the mentoring) and help is given to them already... given the potential for abuse, I say no, but if it were managed by an NPC or someone to protect newbies without mods being needed, then it could be a great intro (not too worried about protecting older players, they should know better than to get scammed of much)

[Jaxbot]

Hmm... it's a nice idea, but will the guilds/players have to do it everytime a player registers?

[Entropy]

that sort of thing sorta happens in chan3 (without the mentoring) and help is given to them already... given the potential for abuse, I say no, but if it were managed by an NPC or someone to protect newbies without mods being needed, then it could be a great intro (not too worried about protecting older players, they should know better than to get scammed of much)

Most of the newbies do not know about the channel 3, or how to make stuff. Which is why having them sent to a special area where they can be tutored by others makes it easier for both the newbies and the pros.

 

Hmm... it's a nice idea, but will the guilds/players have to do it everytime a player registers?

No, but they will have to have some representative in the shops as often as possible.

[MagpieLee]

There are inherent problems. You assume that the newbie already has the knowledge and tools and nexus and levels necessary to harvest / alch.

The reality is different. The prices of books ensure that newbies harvest flowers for ages.

 

By the time the newb is smart enough in terms of reading up the books (costs money and time), getting the nexus and knowledge of the game in general, I doubt the 'newbie' would want to harvest/alch for just the exp - they'd too want the product as well as the product (or gold coinage).

 

In general, its a nice idea but details need to be thrashed out a bit more.

I voted yes.

[Beaverhunter]

Pros:

 

*Its a nice idea.

*Its good with more direct player to player tutorial.

 

Cons:

 

*There will be abit too much trouble with the trusting thing.

*Most ppl would want a product from their ingreds, the newbie will no matter what fail much more than you would yourself.

*Its not really that long time thats needed for getting to some kind of averange lvl of skills like alchemy and so. So they would only be able to do this for very short time.

*You would have to have some kind of ranking system or keep track of stuffs, so its possible to determiant who is more reliable than others. Otherwise just too much scams...

 

To conclude it overall I would say its not worth the job implementing it. But a better tutorial for getting into other skills than harvesting a few flowers or so would be nice probably. So maybe its better to improve the overall gameplay at start then making it more complicated.

[Entropy]

There are inherent problems. You assume that the newbie already has the knowledge and tools and nexus and levels necessary to harvest / alch.

The reality is different. The prices of books ensure that newbies harvest flowers for ages.

 

By the time the newb is smart enough in terms of reading up the books (costs money and time), getting the nexus and knowledge of the game in general, I doubt the 'newbie' would want to harvest/alch for just the exp - they'd too want the product as well as the product (or gold coinage).

 

In general, its a nice idea but details need to be thrashed out a bit more.

I voted yes.

 

I think you totally miss the point.

The idea is not to have the newbies harvest hydrgenium ore and make titanium armor for you. Instead, it is to make low level stuff and harvest low level resources that require no nexus or knowledge.

[bregi]

I like the idea very much!

 

And maybe it might be improved like following, it would allow more single player use, and would decrease the risk of abuse:

have the ones requesting stuff to be made hand the ingredients to the npc and then have the npc give it to the noobs. while to stop abuse newbs taking an order first time will only given a small amount of stuff, when they hand in the stuff they made, next time they can get a bigger load...

like this everyone could place an order with the npc and wouldn't have to check back or even have a guild having someone standing there.

 

whatever way this will be put into work, I think it's a great idea, helping noobs and experienced ppl!

[szczupaczek]

I know, my idea isn't very RPG. But it would be good to put an NPC next to this spot, where you can report someone scamming in shop.

 

It would be like:

/npc-name trusted <name>

/npc-name scammer <name>

 

And then:

/npc-name trusted <name>

And answer like this:

player_1,player_2 reported this <name> as trusted

player_3,player_4 reported this <name> as scammer

player_5,player_6 reported this <ip or ip range> as trusted/scammer (as above)

 

The ip thing for multiaccounting.

Just my idea.

Hope it's not too much to code...

 

And why list players reporting?

You generally know, whose reports to trust

 

 

Just this idea Haven't thought over all details, just lineout

Edited October 23, 2006 by szczupaczek

[RallosZek]

Voted no, because judging from my passed behavior I'm very picky with handing out ingredients especially since I hardly store them.

 

I might be interested if the ingredients and products never left the building - ie - the apprentice can only access ingredients in the building and store them there. Of course that would never warrant a newbie walking out with products each time but that risk/reward would be acceptable for me.

[Entropy]

To conclude it overall I would say its not worth the job implementing it. But a better tutorial for getting into other skills than harvesting a few flowers or so would be nice probably. So maybe its better to improve the overall gameplay at start then making it more complicated.

 

Ok, can you provide some explanation on how should the tutorial be improved?

[MagpieLee]

Who mentioned hydrogenium ore or tit amor? Not me surely...

 

Even the useful low level stuff require some knowledge. And if they had to tenacity to build themselves upto the knowledge of making/harvesting whatever, would you guarentee they would want only the exp out of this while they can clealy do the stuff themselves and cash in? Some official incentive must be in-place here.

 

Other then that it's a good idea to build up guild profile and relationships.

[LabRat]

I like this idea, but foresee these problems:

* Newb dies and loses items

* Newb PMs the smeg out of the mentor

* Newb just gives up on the game as it is all work, work, work (maybe a biggie)

* Newb just plain takes on too much work from too many people and gets hopelessly overwhelmed

* Newb expects excessive help from the mentor

* Newb keeps the end product and gets a bad reputation from the start - many more outlaw threads

* People scam the newbs - "give me the stuff and I will pass it on to your mentor"

 

I could go on for quite a while.

 

Note that I actually voted yes on this idea, and I really do like the principle behind it - immediate immersion in the game for the newbs will mean more players, and a stronger game.

 

If the idea goes as planned then there will be a lot of new players that get correct game etiquette training from day one, and hopefully it will have a knock-on effect (better behaved newbs=better behaved nOObs in time).

[Beaverhunter]

 

Ok, can you provide some explanation on how should the tutorial be improved?

 

Well if it was more interactive and you really felt "I'm getting somewhere"... I mean I myself skipped pretty much all the quests at start, I did the tutorial quest, but just how to harvest or walk isnt that big of a deal. Maybe you can make like a "guide", I mean that you can call on where ever you are. Like Zelda has his sprite... just someone walking aside you that can give you some hints and pointers depending on where you are. Like when you for the first time harvest a flower "You know what? I heard you can make good money by selling this beautiful *flower* to flower shops" or stuffs like that, cause the first impression of the game gotta be fun and not to stiff, and I remember myself thinking the game felt kind stuff, considering the graphic and so on, compared to todays high-end graphic and so on. Also the first thing ppl ask is often "how do you make money fast?"

[Zanadu]

I have mixed views on this. One, in my opinion lower level players generally need to make gc. I think incorprating something that allows them to receive an apprentice wage is a bit better. I've noticed many higher level players will often do things for free to gain exp. To me it just seems that those players have already found ways to make gc and thus can "afford" to mix for free. As it stands, FE, thread, etc have been good ways for lower level players to make gc with minimal skill. Exclude those items from the market and dwindle their value to nothing and you will have more newbie players w/skill begging for free items. Incorprate a school where players are willing to "teach" is a great one. However, for a new player starting out I think they need more reward than just free exp. Doesn't nessessarily have to be in gc either. Leather armor, a lower level weapon/shield, etc might be a decent compensation. Things of which a lowbie character would need/want in exchange for their efforts and thus put them on the right track.

[Entropy]

* Newb dies and loses items

That can only happen while harvesting. Those shops will be safe, no PK, no animals.

* Newb PMs the smeg out of the mentor

That's not a problem inherent in this system.

* Newb just gives up on the game as it is all work, work, work (maybe a biggie)

Aren't all the MMOs the same?

* Newb just plain takes on too much work from too many people and gets hopelessly overwhelmed

I really don't think this would be an issue, I expect more newbies than pros.

 

* Newb expects excessive help from the mentor

So? Are you forced to help the newbie?

* Newb keeps the end product and gets a bad reputation from the start - many more outlaw threads

Like I said, I forsee this problem, which is why you don't give them too much stuff until you trust them.

* People scam the newbs - "give me the stuff and I will pass it on to your mentor"

That is against the rules.

[Entropy]

I have mixed views on this. One, in my opinion lower level players generally need to make gc. I think incorprating something that allows them to receive an apprentice wage is a bit better. I've noticed many higher level players will often do things for free to gain exp. To me it just seems that those players have already found ways to make gc and thus can "afford" to mix for free. As it stands, FE, thread, etc have been good ways for lower level players to make gc with minimal skill. Exclude those items from the market and dwindle their value to nothing and you will have more newbie players w/skill begging for free items. Incorprate a school where players are willing to "teach" is a great one. However, for a new player starting out I think they need more reward than just free exp. Doesn't nessessarily have to be in gc either. Leather armor, a lower level weapon/shield, etc might be a decent compensation. Things of which a lowbie character would need/want in exchange for their efforts and thus put them on the right track.

 

It's a free market. We don't make any rules to regulate the relationship between the apprentice and the master. It is up to both of them to reach an agreement, and the free market will prevent most of the abuse.

[maximos]

is it possible to replace thse mentors with NPC? it sounds hard but with simple ideas it could work perhaps

[Vanyel]

I like this idea in general. It will make the community a bit less divided between newcomers/pr0s (newbies/oldbies).

The only issue that might be a problem is, imo, the scams. However, the scammers will get excluded from the shops themselves quickly.

All in all, I would like to see it in game.

Gil

[Jezebelle]

I love the fact that more is done for our Newcomers!

 

WE, the family of W&W, have had our own newcomers project for a long time now.

It includes basis training, guidance, a personal trainer, even a study finance, without strings attached to join the guild.

We find it very rewarding to work this way.

And yes, we also provide ingreds to help newcomers level and learn how to enjoy the game.

 

Now, the newcomers for our project, are all 'handpicked' so to speak.

We sit at beam and watch them go by, and sometimes one stands out and we start talking.

After they finished the basics quests (mostly on their own) we like to think they are determined enough to be in our project. We dont wanna waste time ofcourse with those who are only out for freebees

 

But..we dont always have time to sit at beam to 'scout'

So, this NPC could be a great asset to our project.

Helas..theres a but..the but of trust..

So..i would like to suggest the following:

 

What if we let the NPC give options to PM a representative of a guild, so the newcomer and the representative can start talking.

That way you, the guild, can try and figure out who he/she is dealing with AND they can discuss the job/skill the newcomer wants to level.

 

The problem with that might be..'spam' But then again..that can also happen when the representative is with the Tutorial..my suggestion makes it a bit more..anonymous..and private..

 

Just a thought..

 

JezeBelle

proud mistress of W&W

[Requiem]

i think this is a good idea, but i do think the there will need to be more NPC controll over it. i know it is supposed to be a community type thing, but if the NPC is slightly more involved in the system, it might prevent more scamming/cheating....of course it might also make it more complicated....

 

~1st

 

::EDIT:: i voted yes

Edited October 23, 2006 by 1st Warrior

[larrystorch]

I voted yes. Would have been great to have something like this when I started.

 

Ent, are you planning on setting this up on the test server so we can see exactly what you are planning? I think a lot of the concerns voiced here will be addressed once people see how you implement it.

[bkc56]

Aren't all the MMOs the same?

 

No, I don't think so. I only have two datapoints (EL and talking with and watching one of my sons play WarCraft). These two games are very different in the way they approach work, goals, skill leveling, etc. I have no reason to think that all the other MMORPGs out there aren't unique in their own ways.

Edited October 23, 2006 by bkc56