Important notice for young people

[The_Piper]

as i said, those who "dont know better" wont read this.

 

 

Incorrect. It's merely statistically improbable they won't read it.

 

But the fact is, that they wont read it, and those, who read it, wont care, right?

 

Piper

[Aphistolas]

No....

[Entropy]

Ok, so let us ask them:

Is there anyone under 18 who didn't know that stuff, but now after reading this thread are thinking: "Omfg, good points, I was just about to give all my personal info to this molester I met online.." ?

[Aphistolas]

Ok, so let us ask them:

Is there anyone under 18 who didn't know that stuff, but now after reading this thread are thinking: "Omfg, good points, I was just about to give all my personal info to this molester I met online.." ?

 

Me o/

[robotbob]

(sorry in advance, I ended up soapboxing )

<CLIP>

(self identity)

(By 14-15+ they must be thinking for themselves. I am against

them showing their parents things such as forum posts. They should be able to form opposite opinions

to those of their parents. If they allowed their parents to be aware of their real political or social opinions,

they are certainly awaiting a parental brainwash session.)

<CLIP>

Heh. I know of players as young as 8.

 

 

....darn....the forums are a little busted right now. I just edited out a number of "failed" attempts that I made to post this.

 

Well thats good information to be aware of, However my point is only this:

 

(really offtopic point, but covers -show your parents everything you interact with- part)

*by the age of 14+ you should be able to form your own opinions without parental approval.

Hence the implied, anyone under that age should at the very least understand their parents opinions.

I was lucky, my parents would not tell me their political-religious-etc opinions until I was old enough to

have form my own opinions. This was to prevent me from developing long term biases merely based

on knowledge I was fed as a child.

 

I have to dissagree....

 

It is the role of parents and society to keep them informed id rather the gourvement spent money protecting and educating the vulnerable elements of society than spending all that money on a hammer or new carpets for thier office, or so they can pay thier second mortgage...

 

Here is why vague terms muddy the waters till you can't see the bottom.

 

So you say:

(Its societies role to inform, vunerable elements of society (itself) from [insert even more vague bad elements of society] ) ?

 

See how wonderfully ambigous this is? How do you define both the vunerable elements and then somehow bad elements? Most of the

southern USA would define -bad elements- of a society by religous beliefs or the color of the person skin. Who defines what?

 

So truthfully, its the parents role to determine the information they need to give their child in order to properly raise them.

No vague group in society can do this, let the parent determine what misguided or proper information they give their child.

 

Ill also like to say if someone thinks the safety of children isnt important, or that the efforts of those trying to stop the countless deaths/kidnaps/and cases of molestation that is ripe with in our society doesnt need to be addressed or that it is a waste of time becasue they are dumb assed kids then i have to think there is something wrong with that person.

 

I don't believe anyone stated the safety of children is not important anywhere in this thread.

The main point has been, whose responsibility is it, to educate your child? Yours, not the government, not societies.

Truthfully, the other members of -society- wants your child to fail, they do not want your child to

subplant the sucess of their own. These people are hardly the ones I would want teaching my child.

 

------

 

But seriously if you see my FREE CANDY van, I'M LEGIT!

 

Well, thats the point, who do you warn your child about? I say "assume everyone that you do not know, and even those you do, may

have bad intentions" Look at the statistics, most children are not abused by strangers, but by family members. How

do you warn your child about his\her [insert family member here]?

 

See this: link

Perpetrators of Maltreatment

 

Approximately two-fifths (40.3%) of child victims were maltreated by their mothers acting alone; another 19.1 percent were maltreated by their fathers acting alone; 18.0 percent were abused by both their mother and father.11 Victims abused by a nonparental perpetrator accounted for 13.0 percent of the total

[Airakose]

Ok, so let us ask them:

Is there anyone under 18 who didn't know that stuff, but now after reading this thread are thinking: "Omfg, good points, I was just about to give all my personal info to this molester I met online.." ?

Haha! No, I thought the same as Ent. Parents like to blame other people for their troubles, and throw all responsibility away. That is something that I cannot stand about my parents...

What annoys me even more is the fact that in discarding their responsibilities onto others, they take away any freedoms kids in general have.

 

We have no right to self-defense: if someone attacks us at school, or someone we care about, and we fight back, we get punished (Because parents can't handle the fact that their kid is a bully and deserves it).

 

We have no right to freedom of speech: Since we're considered so vulnerable, many of our opinions are shrugged off, or assaulted. Discrimination is something we're trying to stop in the U.S... We're doing a poor job of it.

 

We have no right to privacy: probably the most understandable, but annoying... Parents invade our privacy so much, and demand constant supervision of us to the point where now the school monitors all internet logs at OUR HOMES and often report suspicious activities to our parents...

We have no trust between parents and kids: I often hear about when people could walk to their friends' homes. They could stay a week of their summer away without worry or paranoia. I cannot because of the ideas that float around about being the "responsible parent". The idea that distrust is safety. Not the case anymore...

 

 

Some things I can understand, but to the degree of retention childcare has now, I see no reason for it aside from laziness.

 

 

Ok, I'm done ranting

Maybe its rebellious thoughts from 'growing up' , but alot of the things my parents, and others' parents, do irritates me. They need to take more responsibility and stop relying on others to do their work...

-------------------------------------------------------

(In case there is any wonder as to how my post is relevant, I tried to point out alot of the crap parents think now, and how things like this post only fuel their poor parenting abilities)

Edited May 30, 2009 by Airakose

[Wizzy]

Ok, so let us ask them:

Is there anyone under 18 who didn't know that stuff, but now after reading this thread are thinking: "Omfg, good points, I was just about to give all my personal info to this molester I met online.." ?

Haha! No, I thought the same as Ent. Parents like to blame other people for their troubles, and throw all responsibility away. That is something that I cannot stand about my parents...

What annoys me even more is the fact that in discarding their responsibilities onto others, they take away any freedoms kids in general have.

 

We have no right to self-defense: if someone attacks us at school, or someone we care about, and we fight back, we get punished (Because parents can't handle the fact that their kid is a bully and deserves it).

 

We have no right to freedom of speech: Since we're considered so vulnerable, many of our opinions are shrugged off, or assaulted. If I try to state my opinion, I'm usually interrupted with aggression from my parents, and tossed out if its the school system. I've gotten to the point where I act stupid (Sense and opinion-wise) just because its expected of me, and will be the only thing accepted by the 'superiors'. Discrimination is something we're trying to stop in the U.S... We're doing a poor job of it.

 

We have no right to privacy: probably the most understandable, but annoying... Parents invade our privacy so much, and demand constant supervision of us to the point where now the school monitors all internet logs at OUR HOMES and often report suspicious activities to our parents...

We have no trust between parents and kids: I often hear about when people could walk to their friends' homes. They could stay a week of their summer away without worry or paranoia. I cannot because of the ideas that float around about being the "responsible parent". The idea that distrust is safety. I rarely get to leave my house because I'm not allowed to, and my parents don't like to do anything... The stupid thing is that they put me through years of Tae Kwon Do so I could care for myself in the situations they fear...

(Any attempt to leave against their will could put me in jail according to my state's laws. And I mean a true jail, not a juvenile retention center)

 

 

Some things I can understand, but to the degree of retention childcare has now, I see no reason for it aside from laziness.

 

 

Ok, I'm done ranting

Maybe its rebellious thoughts from 'growing up' , but alot of the things my parents, and others' parents, do irritates me. They need to take more responsibility and stop relying on others to do their work...

-------------------------------------------------------

(In case there is any wonder as to how my post is relevant, I tried to point out alot of the crap parents think now, and how things like this post only fuel their poor parenting abilities)

 

Dont be too harsh on parents kk

 

1 miss slip of a condom or 1 missed pill is all it takes and BANG there you are one of them parents.

 

Not an easy job

[Sir_Exeus]

Ok, so let us ask them:

Is there anyone under 18 who didn't know that stuff, but now after reading this thread are thinking: "Omfg, good points, I was just about to give all my personal info to this molester I met online.." ?

 

It's common sense. Don't tell strangers where you live

 

Everyone says is paranoid about evul people online but idk if they would waste time in a online game and spend money on a plane ticket when they can just find peeps in a park

[Entropy]

Airakose, I think the best thing to do is have a talk with your parents and tell them something like: "If you hope to talk to me after the day I turn 18, you better treat me with respect and dignity. Keep in mind that it is I who decides what retirement home you go when you are too old".

[Kornholio]

this topic is just ...

 

IF some1 is afraid that theyr children get bad influence from internet or TV, dont let your kid sit at computer or watch TV.... but hey... he can meet bad ppl while being outside playing.... omg, lock your kid in da closet

 

edit: typo

Edited May 27, 2009 by Kornholio

[Ermabwed]

Airakose, I think the best thing to do is have a talk with your parents and tell them something like: "If you hope to talk to me after the day I turn 18, you better treat me with respect and dignity. Keep in mind that it is I who decides what retirement home you go when you are too old".

And that's true because being rude to and threatening people is a sure way to earn their respect, it also highlights one's maturity and is in general recommended if one does depend on said people.

[Thyralax]

Firstly sorry for not responding faster, but been afk.

 

Okay i can see where this has come out wrong. My post was directed at a sepctacular comment

Its not the government's job to make sure your dumb-shit kid doesn't get kidnapped or hit by a car, its yours.

.

I admit that i should have quoted that particular post previously >.<

 

It is NOT my job, or OUR job to 'protect' OTHER PEOPLE CHILDREN from the filth of the internet and TV.

 

Isnt it your repsonisibility to protect Children from elements in your own game?

Id be surprised if it isnt, with all of the laws and regulations and stuff that is made and set up. As far as i know EL doesnt have any sort of age restriction or even a guidline anywhere i can see (main webpage or in game.) id think that even a simple statement that this game is not suitible for those under 12/13/106 w/e you think is the appropriate age for players. This acts as a guide for parents (those that bother anyways). Just a simple disclaimer. Either way just a thought and question as the subject is at hand.

 

But just to reiterate after reading a lot of other comments parts of my previous post seem to have been forgotten

 

Yes parents are resposible for educating thier children.

 

Ill stfu now, as im apparently a bad parent trying to find excuses for my bad parenting. I dont see the point in continuing to get involved with the discussion

[nathanstenzel]

I believe in collective duty. Not responsibility, that lies with the parents, I just don't see what's so difficult about reiterating a few lines that could potentially protect children.

 

How many children playing EL have a forum account/read forums anyways?

 

How many children playing EL, having a forum account/read forums anyways, will read this?

 

How many children playing EL, having a forum account, who read this, will obey and not say STFU, leave me alone?

 

0.

 

So this discussion is somehow pointless.

 

Piper

How many people turn a post of information into a debate about if someone should bother or perhaps even has the right to post it (the last one happened in other threads I have started)?

(starts to count up the names on this thread and then decides it would be a waste of time)

If people read it and find it useful, they read it and find it useful. That was the point of it....to be useful information.

If they read it and laugh their asses off and think the post was a waste of server space and totally useless, so be it.

Not sure why this really turned into a debate.

[Sir_Exeus]

*cough* post number 5 *cough*

[boognish]

How many children playing EL have a forum account/read forums anyways?

 

How many children playing EL, having a forum account/read forums anyways, will read this?

 

How many children playing EL, having a forum account, who read this, will obey and not say STFU, leave me alone?

 

0.

 

So this discussion is somehow pointless.

 

Piper

 

Can you give me lottery numbers for tonight?

 

Isnt it your repsonisibility to protect Children from elements in your own game?

Id be surprised if it isnt, with all of the laws and regulations and stuff that is made and set up. As far as i know EL doesnt have any sort of age restriction or even a guidline anywhere i can see (main webpage or in game.) id think that even a simple statement that this game is not suitible for those under 12/13/106 w/e you think is the appropriate age for players. This acts as a guide for parents (those that bother anyways). Just a simple disclaimer. Either way just a thought and question as the subject is at hand.

 

This is an important point, if something goes bad in the game Radu, you do not want to be held responsible. Games today have all kinds of legal disclaimers on them. May cause epilepsy, carpal tunnel, etc. This is to protect the game makers as much as the players.

[Sir_Exeus]

Quick note: when installing the game, if you actually read the agreement that you must accept before installing EL, it covers this iirc

 

And its actually the most interesting agreement thing I ever read, I have shown it to my friends and we all cracked up

[Thyralax]

Quick note: when installing the game, if you actually read the agreement that you must accept before installing EL, it covers this iirc

 

Nope nothing in the license regarding age of play, (but yes the licence is funny amused me for ages and covers everything else including not being liable if you murder you cat cause you did it in game )

[Sir_Exeus]

Quick note: when installing the game, if you actually read the agreement that you must accept before installing EL, it covers this iirc

 

Nope nothing in the license regarding age of play, (but yes the licence is funny amused me for ages and covers everything else including not being liable if you murder you cat cause you did it in game )

 

Right I didin't mean the actual age >< just the part about holding ent responsible....

[Entropy]

Isnt it your repsonisibility to protect Children from elements in your own game?

Lol, no. What kind of fantasy world are you living in? I have ZERO legal (or even moral) responsibility to protect anyone in my game. Read some laws before you talk, k?

 

Id be surprised if it isnt, with all of the laws and regulations and stuff that is made and set up.

Such as? Examples.

 

As far as i know EL doesnt have any sort of age restriction or even a guidline anywhere i can see (main webpage or in game.) id think that even a simple statement that this game is not suitible for those under 12/13/106 w/e you think is the appropriate age for players. This acts as a guide for parents (those that bother anyways). Just a simple disclaimer. Either way just a thought and question as the subject is at hand.

Not my fault you can't read licenses.

 

Ill stfu now, as im apparently a bad parent trying to find excuses for my bad parenting. I dont see the point in continuing to get involved with the discussion

 

Then why do you expect OTHERS to protect your children, and think you know laws and regulations that don't even exist? Isn't the role of a parent to be aware of what laws are there to protect their children?

[Aislinn]

A point not mentioned here at least that I could see...

Every parent knows the frustration of handing their children pearls of wisdom and being told they know nothing and are the dumbest thing on this planet.

And then watching them hear that same pearl offered by an unrelated source and then watching them act as though it was the most brilliant thing ever said.

 

So that said, I absolutely believe it's the parents job and responsibility to teach right and wrong, safe and not safe. However everyone benefits by having multiple sources provide that same guidance to our children. To address the comments about the "every man for himself and his kid" mentality: There is a difference between wanting your child to be valedictorian (and not wanting the neighbors kid to get it), and watching that same neighbor's kid get kidnapped or raped by an internet stalker.

 

My daughter is 10, dabbles occasionally in EL. She is not allowed to have any chat channels on, is not allowed to give out any personal information, even telling people she is my kid, and is not allowed in these forums. I do not expect ent to change his forums for that reason, I do not expect him to change his game for that reason. I take full responsibility for allowing her the limited access she does have. She is monitored, i see her screen, and know who shé s chatting with. She even had to change her character once when she said something she shouldn't have, in my opinion. She is not going to see any warnings offered here, because I do not give her the opportunity to see them.

However I do not think it is a bad thing for reminders outside the home, sometimes seeing the same thing said elsewhere that nagging parents try to get through, sinks in better from an unexpected place such as EL or wherever. As has been said by someone famous, "it takes a village...". And it definitely is in that village's best interest to all try to help. That doesn't mean I think it is that village's responsibility, nor would I blame it for any failures, but I sure do appreciate the effort as a parent.

[Entropy]

However everyone benefits by having multiple sources provide that same guidance to our children. To address the comments about the "every man for himself and his kid" mentality: There is a difference between wanting your child to be valedictorian (and not wanting the neighbors kid to get it), and watching that same neighbor's kid get kidnapped or raped by an internet stalker.

 

Well, there is no harm in having multiple sources reiterating a message, but I don't think there is much benefit either, because most children already know what they are not supposed to do, and being reminded again on a forum is very unlikely to change their behaviour.

[WolfWitch]

First of all THANK YOU Aislinn for saying what I wanted to - i hit the back buttons many many times because what I said came out wrong or did not express what I wanted it too.

 

My daughter does not play el - and will not untill there is a 24 hour mute command She does however play another game that clearly does not care about spammers - shes monitored, watched like a hawk in fact and knows that if anyone sends her a message of any type shes to call me immediatly (turn round in the chair and shout MUUUM over a space of 2 meters ). That is MY job as her mother.

 

However I can also see a lot of sense in what others have said - there is no clear age warning on the web site and if you allow minors into a game then they need protection (agree with me or not its how I see it). And I have to disagree with you Entropy here:

Well, there is no harm in having multiple sources reiterating a message, but I don't think there is much benefit either, because most children already know what they are not supposed to do, and being reminded again on a forum is very unlikely to change their behaviour.

 

Parents and teachers can talk till they are blue in the face sometimes (and trust me every parent knows this) and they are ignored. You are a game creator and to a lot of children that is the coolest thing in the world. They WILL listen because to them you are a celebrity that is looked up too. Wrestlers on tv (after the acting classes ) do all sorts of wonderful moves that some kids go out and copy, after being told not to, after being told its dangerous and after being told "when you break your neck - don't come running to me!" (whoever thought of that saying needs shooting - NOT literally kids k?)

 

I totally agree that NO you cannot parent other kids and NO you cannot protect every child. NO the children are not your responsibility, but the children playing at the front of my house are not my responsibility either - I still watch our for them because they are babies and they need protection. If putting the warnings up on the website saves 1 child from harm - isn't it worth it??

 

Love and Light

Wolfy

[Aislinn]

However everyone benefits by having multiple sources provide that same guidance to our children. To address the comments about the "every man for himself and his kid" mentality: There is a difference between wanting your child to be valedictorian (and not wanting the neighbors kid to get it), and watching that same neighbor's kid get kidnapped or raped by an internet stalker.

 

Well, there is no harm in having multiple sources reiterating a message, but I don't think there is much benefit either, because most children already know what they are not supposed to do, and being reminded again on a forum is very unlikely to change their behaviour.

Maybe, maybe not. But it hurts no-one to offer the message, and if you help even only one child-teen-person because they would rather accept it from you than their parent, then it's worth it.

 

<<Side note: Sad to say as well, not all kids have parents or guardians who think they need to teach this stuff to their children. Sad to say, not all children have parents available to teach it. Not our fault, but eventually it is our problem. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.>>

[Entropy]

However I can also see a lot of sense in what others have said - there is no clear age warning on the web site and if you allow minors into a game then they need protection (agree with me or not its how I see it).

Most websites do not have age disclaimers. We do not require any disclosure of private information (name, age, address, or even e-mail address), so AFAIK there are no laws requiring us to have age restrictions. It is up to the parents to determine if their children are allowed or not to use our services.

 

 

Parents and teachers can talk till they are blue in the face sometimes (and trust me every parent knows this) and they are ignored. You are a game creator and to a lot of children that is the coolest thing in the world. They WILL listen because to them you are a celebrity that is looked up too. Wrestlers on tv (after the acting classes ) do all sorts of wonderful moves that some kids go out and copy, after being told not to, after being told its dangerous and after being told "when you break your neck - don't come running to me!" (whoever thought of that saying needs shooting - NOT literally kids k?)

Kids do not usually listen to persons in any position of authority. Parents, teachers, cops, etc. I am in a position of authority, so I don't expect them to listen to me.

 

I totally agree that NO you cannot parent other kids and NO you cannot protect every child. NO the children are not your responsibility, but the children playing at the front of my house are not my responsibility either - I still watch our for them because they are babies and they need protection. If putting the warnings up on the website saves 1 child from harm - isn't it worth it??

 

To the best of my knowledge, no kid was ever 'harmed' by or because of EL. Therefore I don't think any child would be saved. Besides, this mentality is harmful, because it's a slippery slope. For example, Australia wants to filter the whole Internet access to their country to remove the 'filth' because omfg, think of the children. A lot of crappy laws are a result of "let's protect the children" mentality, and I strongly disagree with that. Nevertheless, I did allow this thread to exist, because as I was saying before, I don't think it will hurt anyone. And I also stated before that I don't think it is a good idea for children to reveal personal info to strangers.

[Shujral]

Ok, so let us ask them:

Is there anyone under 18 who didn't know that stuff, but now after reading this thread are thinking: "Omfg, good points, I was just about to give all my personal info to this molester I met online.." ?

Haha! hehe.gif No, I thought the same as Ent. Parents like to blame other people for their troubles, and throw all responsibility away. That is something that I cannot stand about my parents...

What annoys me even more is the fact that in discarding their responsibilities onto others, they take away any freedoms kids in general have.

 

We have no right to self-defense: medieval.gif if someone attacks us at school, or someone we care about, and we fight back, we get punished (Because parents can't handle the fact that their kid is a bully and deserves it).

 

We have no right to freedom of speech: lipssealed.gif Since we're considered so vulnerable, many of our opinions are shrugged off, or assaulted. If I try to state my opinion, I'm usually interrupted with aggression from my parents, and tossed out if its the school system. I've gotten to the point where I act stupid (Sense and opinion-wise) just because its expected of me, and will be the only thing accepted by the 'superiors'. Discrimination is something we're trying to stop in the U.S... We're doing a poor job of it.

 

We have no right to privacy: lurker.gif probably the most understandable, but annoying... Parents invade our privacy so much, and demand constant supervision of us to the point where now the school monitors all internet logs at OUR HOMES and often report suspicious activities to our parents...

 

We have no trust between parents and kids: I often hear about when people could walk to their friends' homes. They could stay a week of their summer away without worry or paranoia. I cannot because of the ideas that float around about being the "responsible parent". The idea that distrust is safety. I rarely get to leave my house because I'm not allowed to, and my parents don't like to do anything... The stupid thing is that they put me through years of Tae Kwon Do so I could care for myself in the situations they fear...

(Any attempt to leave against their will could put me in jail according to my state's laws. And I mean a true jail, not a juvenile retention center)

 

 

Some things I can understand, but to the degree of retention childcare has now, I see no reason for it aside from laziness.

 

 

Ok, I'm done ranting blush.gif

Maybe its rebellious thoughts from 'growing up' happy.gif , but alot of the things my parents, and others' parents, do irritates me. They need to take more responsibility and stop relying on others to do their work...

-------------------------------------------------------

 

(In case there is any wonder as to how my post is relevant, I tried to point out alot of the crap parents think now, and how things like this post only fuel their poor parenting abilities)

You can have the right to privacy, the right to freedom of speech, and the right to self-defense, on the condition that you pay for your own food, housing, education, and toys, and are subject to the adult legal system.

 

That being said, kids get shit

Edited May 27, 2009 by Shujral