Jump to content
Eternal Lands Official Forums
Entropy

Depletable resources and multiplaying

Recommended Posts

DO NOT POST BEFORE READING AND ALLOWING HALF AN HOUR TO DIGEST WHAT YOU READ HERE!

 

We were thinking, again, to allow multiplaying. Yes, we had votes about it before, on how it will ruin the game and blah blah.

Some of the concerns were valid, some were not.

The main problem is with harvesting. You can still do it more or less afk, and if you have two computers it is relatively easy to run a main and ~2 alts that only harvest. This is also the problem that affects other things, such as gold farming and over abundance of items.

 

So, in order to allow multiplaying, there must be a solution to the problem of everyone having 3-4 alts only harvesting for the main.

The solution is simple and elegant: Depletable resources.

 

How would it work:

1. There is a finite number of each harvestible resource in the game. By resource I mean the map object you click on to harvest.

2. The server can determine the total number of resources placed in places where you can harvest them.

3. The server will try to guestimate how much of each resource is needed. This will be a little tricky to implement, and would probably require a few days of self adjustments to get it right. It could also be based on the amount of people online.

4. The server will then divide the total quantity that is 'needed'*2 to the number of harvestible resources of that type. Some of the resources (map objects) that are not very used, such as those further from storages, will have a higher quntity.

5. Each hour or perhaps every few hours, some (randomly) of the resources will be replenished.

6. Optionally, the resources that are harvested the most will be replenished slower.

7. Characters who just logged in the game can't harvest for a minute or two, to prevent people from logging out their alts at the resources and logging them every hour or so to check.

8. With this system, the mini events can be removed, and the harv limit increased from 120 an hour to 200 an hour or so.

9. Some maps will have harvesting restrictions, for example, IP would allow harvesting only up to level 15 harvesting, and would not be depleatable.

 

IMO, this would make the game much more interesting, would encourage exploration and better competition, and would reduce the moderators time, as well as making it easier for families to play.

 

Think about it, and post in 30 minutes or more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i love this idea that u can help your family out and stuff and your family can play with u at same time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I say YES!

 

The only reason my girlfriend does not play this game whith me is because we would not be able to "play together". (or I'd have to divert her connection to a different IP, but I don't like this kind of trick).

 

So I'm 200% for this.

 

But I think this would be good if each resource had it's own "counter": resources next to storage shall then deplete fast, but once they'd be depleted, people should still be able to go further, in other spots, to get some.

 

That would also make some "dead" maps more lively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because this is an entirely new way of doing things and we have yet no idea exactly how much effect on a persons harvesting overall will occur...is there a danger it will render the Mule Glyphs useless? or at least less used than presently, simply because most times "might" require a teleportation spell to get to and from a resource that a player has discovered is *ripe*? (This is assuming the best spots to go to will soon become those further from storages, if a player wants to ensure a full loadout).

 

I just wanted to ask to ensure we're not throwing away another ingame peice of development here (mule glyphs).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But I think this would be good if each resource had it's own "counter": resources next to storage shall then deplete fast, but once they'd be depleted, people should still be able to go further, in other spots, to get some.

 

That would also make some "dead" maps more lively.

 

Isn't that what I said?

 

Because this is an entirely new way of doing things and we have yet no idea exactly how much effect on a persons harvesting overall will occur...is there a danger it will render the Mule Glyphs useless? or at least less used than presently, simply because most times "might" require a teleportation spell to get to and from a resource that a player has discovered is *ripe*? (This is assuming the best spots to go to will soon become those further from storages, if a player wants to ensure a full loadout).

 

I just wanted to ask to ensure we're not throwing away another ingame peice of development here (mule glyphs).

 

Mules are not very used for harvesting. They are more used for instances and arenas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This idea would be good as long as you cut down the number of alts to 1 so we dont have 5 people with 4 alts each hogging some resource and preventing other people from harving any

Edited by hobobob38

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This idea would be good as long as you cut down the number of alts to 1 so we dont have 5 people with 4 alts each hogging some resource and preventing other people from harving any

 

Not sure how well this would work, because if many people do that, the common resources will get depleted fast, and only those further from the storages will still be available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there an upper max to how much resource is in a certain area/blob?

Will there be an item implemented to determine how much resource is in a certain area/blob?

When it regenerates, will it be regenerated in amounts of anywhere from 1-300? Or larger?

Can Night Visors see blobs/flowers more clearly/further away?

 

Interesting idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

uhmmmmmmmm, playing with family was possible even before this change.

And i am really afraid of massive alt-spamming going from this, not only to have some near existing harvestable spot, but also to make mules caravans or to help with PK in terms of spying, blocking ways and so ... maybe i see it too black.

 

Also it would change many other parts of the game, as guild Projects in some maps, mixing in mines and so ... it would be different game then.

 

You could not start making more difficult items in some place, as you will be at risk of ending with too big bag and without key resources if somebody else will "harv it out" in between.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1. There is a finite number of each harvestible resource in the game. By resource I mean the map object you click on to harvest.

2. The server can determine the total number of resources placed in places where you can harvest them.

3. The server will try to guestimate how much of each resource is needed. This will be a little tricky to implement, and would probably require a few days of self adjustments to get it right. It could also be based on the amount of people online.

4. The server will then divide the total quantity that is 'needed'*2 to the number of harvestible resources of that type. Some of the resources (map objects) that are not very used, such as those further from storages, will have a higher quntity.

5. Each hour or perhaps every few hours, some (randomly) of the resources will be replenished.

6. Optionally, the resources that are harvested the most will be replenished slower.

I would suggest to make it not that complicated/tricky. A simple suggestion:

 

o Lets say, there are 100 spots, where you can harvest sun flowers.

 

o create 20 resources of sun flowers with, lets say, 500 flowers. The server chooses 20 of the 100 spots, where sunflowers are in game. There you can harvest up to 500 sunflowers.

 

o When a resource runs out (one of the 20 choosen spots by the server), the server chooses a new spot from the 100 spots in game and there you can harvest another load of 500 sun flowers.

 

So you can control the amount of available sun flowers by in/decreasing the amout of resources (20) in game and how much flowers you can get from every resource (500).

 

That might be much easier than a system which cares about how far away from a storage a resource is.

 

7. Characters who just logged in the game can't harvest for a minute or two, to prevent people from logging out their alts at the resources and logging them every hour or so to check.

Umm, that might be a challenge to have an alt at every spot where sun flowers are available, for example.

8. With this system, the mini events can be removed, and the harv limit increased from 120 an hour to 200 an hour or so.

Get rid of the harv limit at all. If you think/see in your statisticts, that ppl get too much xp from harvesting, just reduce the xp you get from harvesting per item.

9. Some maps will have harvesting restrictions, for example, IP would allow harvesting only up to level 15 harvesting, and would not be depleatable.

Not very good to restrict IP to harv level 15. During invasions, its usually the only place, where harvesters can get some XP by harving veggies.

IMO, this would make the game much more interesting, would encourage exploration and better competition, and would reduce the moderators time, as well as making it easier for families to play.

 

Yes, it would be an improvement and solve a lot of problems. I am all for it, so lets give it a try. Thumbs up :confused:

 

Piper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm for the idea. Ignoring the multiplay elements, which have been discussed at length elsewhere, depletable harvestables would be a welcome change to the game. While some care must be taken in order to properly rebalance the price floors and ceilings (NPC buy/sell rates need to be changed), it would make it difficult if not impossible to simply grind one task repeatedly. This makes a wider variety of goods produced, rather than a very small window, thereby increasing prices. However, grind price would also be increased - levelling in non-fighting skills will be more expensive, and since there will likely be a goods price increase across the board, a smaller increase in fighting skill training. While the levelling in non-fighting skills *should* be balanced out by the increase of goods, it might not be and the price floors/ceilings may need to be adjusted (after a few months seeing how it works out). This would also force some players to go to riskier areas for resources, who would then charge a higher price. The price does not rise, scarcity increases, which causes the price to rise anyway. It's no longer an infinite resource or a price-floored resource, now market forces come into play for raw resources as well.

 

Some issues with skills would be upper-level manufacturing's dependence on iron and crafting's dependence on gold and silver. Unless these resources have a higher spawn than normal, these skills would be more difficult to train. Unless proper care is taken to provide sufficient resources for the entire player base, it may be difficult to train a character that does not fight at all - possible, and perhaps even preferred under this system. (pp could be assigned on two chars for two tasks, and since the exp curve is exponential, gain would be achieved)

 

The lack of harvesting events would be an end to a minor annoyance, the increased harvesting experience per hour would hopefully more or less offset the limited resources for most. However, the harvesting delay is of questionable merit - simply waiting a minute after login will likely do nothing. It is possible to simply run a client constantly to check the harvestable's status, or even better, just harvest with an alt placed directly at the harvestable, and trade it over to the main. Or, ya know, wait a minute or two and then preform any sort of 'trickery' one so desires. It will, at most, be a minor annoyance with allowed multiplay.

 

Certain areas of harvest limits would be of use, for instance, IP, but beyond that great care must be taken not to overplace these areas. The vast majority of the game should contain limited resources for this shift to be most effective.

 

I would go for all harvestables replenishing at the same rate, for the simple sake of being easier to understand. The game is complex enough in base skills as it is - we already have a dwarf fortress.

Edited by freeone3000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now finally me and my ficus plant can play and we won't get banned!

 

No really, I prefer mini-events to this. It seems you will have to multi-play to remain competitive, plus there are many other reasons to multi-play than just harvesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there an upper max to how much resource is in a certain area/blob?

Will there be an item implemented to determine how much resource is in a certain area/blob?

When it regenerates, will it be regenerated in amounts of anywhere from 1-300? Or larger?

Can Night Visors see blobs/flowers more clearly/further away?

 

Interesting idea.

 

Yes, but the upper max will be based on the resource type. For example hydrogenium max will be much less than sulhpur max.

When it regenerates, it will regenerate fully. There will be no item that tells how many ore left, and the nigh visor won't help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like this idea, I think it will promote more exploration and use more parts of the maps that are currently sitting vacant.

 

 

Mules are not very used for harvesting. They are more used for instances and arenas.

 

I don't know about other guilds but our guild actually uses mules a lot. But I would think that they could still be used to a degree since if I'm understanding correctly each "source" has it own limiter. So if an area has 10 silver ores you can harvest from all and either put in one bag or hyper it for the mule.

 

Anyways I like this idea in theory we'll see how it goes in game if implemented, after all we are still beta :confused:.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On one hand, legal multi would make it much easier for colleges, schools, cyber cafes, families which would all be on one IP. It would also make it much easier on mods and remove the need for white lists.

 

Resources running out has been suggested a number of times. I forget if it was related to the multi-play topic or not. There is probably a concern with some that resources would run out due to alts harvesting the same place and that the alts would just never log off, so there would not be enough for others.

 

Multi-play with reduced mini-events (but still there) would probably be more helpful since It would be harder to have 5 characters harvest one thing and depleting the resource before someone else can get to it. Without mini-events and with the resources running out, resource camping could become a popular trend.

 

Perhaps the mini events requiring so much attention to harvest things would be good for the game even if some people complain about them.

 

I debated this with my guild some...some of which don't know the background of the topic....including the inability to easily distinguish between multi-play and family/group play....and so I think I will make a suggestion which might not be too popular with some people.

 

Could you please implement the stuff that you said except have 1/2 the amount of mini-events instead of removing them?

 

Edit: oh yeah...please no harvest delay since that would just be overcame by staying logged in and it would annoy people who just logged in or lagged.

Edited by nathanstenzel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of depletable resources in the context of making the game more dynamic and forcing players to break up routines. It could make power-leveling or large projects for gc more difficult, but that isn't horrible either. Most players have favorite locations for pretty much everything and oftentimes it's strictly based on convenience and proximity to storage. This is obviously why we bitch when little changes are made with resource locations or *cough* boats between maps. All of that would go away.

 

Depending on the methods for determining how much of a given resource is needed, things like silver being so heavily used in so many formulas could be significantly less available for some players to harvest. I'd hate to be required to buy ings for alchemy and crafting because I don't get to the resources fast enough or I don't have enough alts harvesting for me because my computer won't run 2 or 3 copies of the client.

 

I'm pretty much content with the mini-events at this point too as well as how much xp I get from harvesting, so that has no bearing for me. Overall, I think you have another good idea and the knowledge of resource usage in game to implement it well. I'm sure, like anything, it would take time to adjust to and for the system to be tweaked, but breaking up my routines for harvesting and mixing and becoming more familiar with many maps in EL are good things.

Edited by lordchron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, from Post time (7:40) its been 30 minutes (now 8:10pm).

 

I dont like the idea of depletable resources;

 

1) Get a large enough party or guild and you can deplete a resource in a short time. These people can then hoard silver and control prices. How would you determine if they are blocking a resource? They could easily say "its a guild project"

 

2) Whos to say that One IP address doesnt make 10 characters, and then go and deplete some resource? Given enough time, those alts can all mine some high valuable ore and hoard it.

 

3) In the long run, wont the harvestables be infinite?

 

IF this idea comes, would you open up KSJ for silver/Iron harvesting (along with moving some chims) ?

 

Im still unsure about this...Theres some fear in me about logging on, and not being able to fulfill a goal I have for a skill. But how about we test it for a week and see how it goes?

 

Hmm, Heres a Idea; A new makable item for engineering: Resources Indicator, indicates how much resources are left for a given resource (Use with).

 

ADD: I dont like the idea of multiplaying. Its cheating, and its wrong. We all worked hard for our chars, so why should someone with time on their hands with a large amount of alts get an advantage over me? Bu doing so, arent we removing team work from the game? There would be no reason for one to have a guild anymore, other than to socialize. Granted, my computer is fast, ButI doubt its fast enough to play more than one char at a time (unless i play with poorman-and whats the point of playing a game if it doesnt look good :confused: )

Edited by Nerdz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do have some concerns, if you have an older computer like mine, I can only run 1 char at a time, so after training i may find there is no silver left for me harv to make HE's.

How will this change affect people with a similar situation? I have always thought that a shared inv making all your Storage items available to your alts is great idea though. Would make me think twice about whether to buy a book for willowleaf or a new sword for Starlite, thus using more items and depleting storage items a lot faster.

If there is some way to balance this i have no objections for people who can multi play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depletable resourses would be OK. May help with exploration and people interaction, "where is the silver"? Might make it less boring to harvest, changing locations. Would help get rid of the gc farmers. ;)

 

Multiplay I am against. Taking less MOD time thou the good might out weight the bad.

If multi play I would suggest placing an "No trading with in IP on NPC items". My anti main I feel still should be able to take advantage of trading harvestables and mixed items. Stiff temp ban for same IP trading of NPC items to discourage so it does not take a lot of mod time, no excuses sorry of like now:) THey would have to check only the anti player trade logs.

 

My two cents for what they are worth

 

Long Live PKing :confused:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly am not fully against this idea and i think with augmentations i would be able to live with this, but for the moment i would not like to have this implemented.

 

The fact that resources deplete definitely would make the game more interesting but having upwards of 3000 people scrambling around for the closest resources to a storage would crowd it to the point of uncontrollable madness. (i smell a bad word that starts with an "R" in all this)

 

This game hasn't allowed multiplaying for as long as i can remember and the thought of it makes me cringe. This system would simply encourage an act that is the opposite of what all MMORPG games are about and also under the circumstances that all they would have to do to succeed in game is to bend the rules a bit and get lazy with a bunch of alts.

 

Additionally this seems to be better directed to family play than individuals.. but not everybody has family that would play and it could be seen as an indifferent addition to the game from their view if you look at it in depth but the fact is that it would still force true players with one main and no alts to compete in the game with alts.. and that would just suck for them.

 

One final comment is that level restrictions would be abused by low level alts that could just be recycled and come back to the same harvestable.

 

In any way i think most would be able to cope with this addition eventually but its just not the kind of thing to do to a game that takes a long time to harvest a decent amount of materials as it is, and has always been good at keeping alt characters and main characters apart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this idea is worth trying. The mini events have nearly driven me crazy. Would it be possible to couple this idea with a nod to PK, e.g. making the resources in a PK map more plentiful or not depletable? Similar to some of the better spawns in EL, there is a benefit, but also a risk associated with the benefit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only concern I have is that the person with a pc that can run many alts, would have a clear advantage..

 

Can each alt cost 5$ a year to make EL some extra money, and also stop charater spaming alts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<CLIP>

2) Whos to say that One IP address doesnt make 10 characters, and then go and deplete some resource? Given enough time, those alts can all mine some high valuable ore and hoard it.

<CLIP>

Hmm, Heres a Idea; A new makeable item for engineering: Resources Indicator, indicates how much resources are left for a given resource (Use with).

Your second point was why I was suggesting having about 1/2 the mini events instead of none of them. Running more than one character takes alot of patience and is alot of work. Trust me. I have tried to run multiple characters at once and succeeded to do it legally. The problem is, running more than one character at a time with mini-events is a pain in the butt. It was easy to run 3 characters at once with 2 harvesting and one training without mini events.

 

Radu said in an earlier post that there would be no item to indicate the harvestable resource levels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×