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If I had a unique feature that distinguish my game from all the crowd I'd value and protect it.

Oh, so you think that other games don't have it because it's so advanced that no one else though about implementing it, huh?

 

No it's just because we think it's a unique feature that distinguish my game from all the crowd and that it had to be valued and protected :devlish: I'm 100% with that way of thinking Cruella. I've done some marketing along my life and it's a basic principle. Read a bit from Philip Kotler he have some nice marketing books that have helped me ;)

 

As a side note - there are online mmorpg games where by using a special feature you are getting exp when being offline, so afk is not that bad :):)

What game? Eve?

 

In Eve seems to be able to do it (but I'm not sure) from posts I've read about people from cryptic discussions on forums about how to do it with their high tech ships and ships adds on (tough I don't like space ships games :( ) but patience, I've asked official sources for confirmation on this... I'm just waiting (hoping to get) an answer.

 

Well, just to be constructive - I play just one character and I have compared harving my efficiency now with events to the one before the update. To be fully representative it should have been repeated a number of times with different astro, but anyway - my today's trial on iron (several hours) has ended up with 67% of what I used to mine in the same time.

How about doing the same test while actually paying attention to what you harvest?

 

Cause for many people it's just about defend legitimate (non gold farming) semi-AFK harvesting, for me it's irrelevant which is the performance paying attention while I get bored watching the grass grow. It's like defending a way of living in RL ;)

 

I defended additional harvesting events because I have personal problems with certain gold coin farmers. One of these ******** even dared to PM tonight and I had to #ignore him.

 

Lol, great, I hate a dang gold farmer, let's annoy as many as we can and hope he gets annoyed too :o

 

Edit: some dumb typos

Edited by piojosnos

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If I had a unique feature that distinguish my game from all the crowd I'd value and protect it.

Oh, so you think that other games don't have it because it's so advanced that no one else though about implementing it, huh?

 

What I think some people choose to play EL because they can blend harvesting with doing other things. This is natural, since serious EL projects require large number of resources.

 

As a side note - there are online mmorpg games where by using a special feature you are getting exp when being offline, so afk is not that bad :):devlish:

What game? Eve?

 

In Talisman Online, you are exchanging so called soul points for experience and energy that are being given to you for a time spent offline (just example, not saying this is good or bad).

 

Well, just to be constructive - I play just one character and I have compared harving my efficiency now with events to the one before the update. To be fully representative it should have been repeated a number of times with different astro, but anyway - my today's trial on iron (several hours) has ended up with 67% of what I used to mine in the same time.

How about doing the same test while actually paying attention to what you harvest?

 

Just go look at my sto and tell me how the hell I could harvest all this stuff without actually paying attention, huh ? Or better yet, get average player's emu and see how much let's say iron you can mine per hour. I guess a lesson of harving ings for 10k steel bars would be a good one as well - many players do such projects, a few even exceed that tenfold ...

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I don't understand why do you think that the rates of the past were sustainable. Obviously, from now on you will have to settle with slightly smaller goals, but then again, it affects everyone equally, so I don't see what the problem is.

In fact, it affects the honest players much less, because until now, some people had harvesting alts which they used to supply their main with (ilegally, but not everyone gets caught). So now it is harder to do that, and the honest players don't have to compete with the cheaters.

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Well, that's just what you've said - because of some people the honest majority will need to spend more time to accomplish what they planned to. For some perhaps it was already taking long, now it is longer. So I ask myself a question whether I'd be able to afford even more time now than in the past just for harvesting.

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Well, that's just what you've said - because of some people the honest majority will need to spend more time to accomplish what they planned to. For some perhaps it was already taking long, now it is longer. So I ask myself a question whether I'd be able to afford even more time now than in the past just for harvesting.

 

Or perhaps you can set lower goals?

Happens IRL too, until a few years ago people wanted to buy more and more using the equity of their homes. Now they struggle to pay the mortgage.

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Heh, there is a substantial difference - as far as I know, no NPC in EL that gives loans .... :P

 

It is all about work/time investment vs an outcome.

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I think very few players are harvesters but only harvest because it's impossible to buy what they need.

It's not often people sell the sulfur and coal I need, if the prices were lower from NCP would I buy from them.

Harvesting is the most boring part of the game, people don't play games to be bored.

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I, for one, actually like the new events. Sure, you have to play closer attention, click a little more, but I like getting a little extra harv xp. It's not much, but it does add up eventually. The same with the gc -- sure, it takes a little more time and attention to get an inventory full of mums, but I'm also bringing in a little money and a little more xp than I normally would.

 

Now, I've only played EL for three months, so I suppose I'm not qualified to comment on the impact this change has had on the more experienced players. However, I had just begun a restocking project, harving 10k of every item I am capable of gathering, when this change was implemented. In fact, I didn't know anything about the new events until I logged in to a Green Day and was told it would be going on for the next 72 hours. I would much rather be interrupted to click every few harvs than be completely unable to harv.

 

So thank you, Radu, for trying to solve a problem in a way that is at least a little beneficial. I have not reduced my goal at all, and will continue picking flowers and smiling at the little jingle in my pocket.

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I, for one, actually like the new events. Sure, you have to play closer attention, click a little more, but I like getting a little extra harv xp. It's not much, but it does add up eventually. The same with the gc -- sure, it takes a little more time and attention to get an inventory full of mums, but I'm also bringing in a little money and a little more xp than I normally would.

 

Now, I've only played EL for three months, so I suppose I'm not qualified to comment on the impact this change has had on the more experienced players. However, I had just begun a restocking project, harving 10k of every item I am capable of gathering, when this change was implemented. In fact, I didn't know anything about the new events until I logged in to a Green Day and was told it would be going on for the next 72 hours. I would much rather be interrupted to click every few harvs than be completely unable to harv.

 

So thank you, Radu, for trying to solve a problem in a way that is at least a little beneficial. I have not reduced my goal at all, and will continue picking flowers and smiling at the little jingle in my pocket.

 

I've become accustom to the change and, like Purplekitty, I think the modest payback in gc/xps compensates for the more attention that needs to be paid while harving.

 

My 2 cents :P

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I think very few players are harvesters but only harvest because it's impossible to buy what they need.

It's not often people sell the sulfur and coal I need, if the prices were lower from NCP would I buy from them.

Harvesting is the most boring part of the game, people don't play games to be bored.

 

well Entropy had an idea to make harvesting more 'challenging'

depleatable resources, which would somewhat accomplish the same thing as mini-events, but less annoying.

 

depleatable does mean that a harvestable could run out, but it doesnt mean you cant harvest once its depleted, you just have to go out and look for more (how many iron deposits are there in-game? or silver deposits?) there are enough deposits in-game to always be able to harvest if that gets in-game.

before everything runs out a new deposit will have refilled already

could still afk harvest, just have to move once in a while.

is that too much to do? :P

 

i'm pretty sure that if the community supports that idea, gives good feedback and constructive criticism to maybe improve that idea, you could have that instead of mini-events.

something to reduce farmers, make harving a bit more challenging and being able to afk harv beats having to keep your eyes on the screen watching orange spam imo

Edited by Sqwurl

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well Entropy had an idea to make harvesting more 'challenging'

depleatable resources, which would somewhat accomplish the same thing as mini-events, but less annoying.

 

...

 

i'm pretty sure that if the community supports that idea, gives good feedback and constructive criticism to maybe improve that idea, you could have that instead of mini-events.

something to reduce farmers, make harving a bit more challenging and being able to afk harv beats having to keep your eyes on the screen watching orange spam imo

 

I would greatly prefer this change to the mini harv events as they are now.

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I think very few players are harvesters but only harvest because it's impossible to buy what they need.

It's not often people sell the sulfur and coal I need, if the prices were lower from NCP would I buy from them.

Harvesting is the most boring part of the game, people don't play games to be bored.

 

well Entropy had an idea to make harvesting more 'challenging'

depleatable resources, which would somewhat accomplish the same thing as mini-events, but less annoying.

 

depleatable does mean that a harvestable could run out, but it doesnt mean you cant harvest once its depleted, you just have to go out and look for more (how many iron deposits are there in-game? or silver deposits?) there are enough deposits in-game to always be able to harvest if that gets in-game.

before everything runs out a new deposit will have refilled already

could still afk harvest, just have to move once in a while.

is that too much to do? :P

 

 

I also like this idea better than the mini events idea. I think it encourages exploration and maybe puts a little more 'skill' into harving. I just worry that the goldfarming would continue as is and the farmers would depleate the items closest to sto right away, leaving everyone else to search for other deposits. But that possiblity just makes me want to level my mule :D

 

Just for clarification please: It was my understanding that each lump of metal or each individual plant would have its own harvest limit, not each harvesting spot has a collective limit. Is that correct? If you harvest silver from a spot with 7 lumps of silver in the wall, each lump has its own limit?

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Or perhaps you can set lower goals?

 

Happens IRL too, until a few years ago people wanted to buy more and more using the equity of their homes. Now they struggle to pay the mortgage.

 

May be it happens in RL too... in fact sure it does. but don't you think that people plays games to avoid and escape a bit exactly what happens in RL? What's the fun of playing a game that resemble creepy RL? That's why almost any attempt to compare with RL seems futile for me.

 

And about lower goals... sorry, no thanks, I don't like mediocrity, and there is a difference between the word challenging and very boring, so if I had the goal of making 13k moon meds from scratch I really won't be happy making 9k, and you know how many ingredients it took to make them... that's just frustrating, and a game is supposed to not be frustrating. And don't tell me that in RL you some time have to set lower goals, or tell me any BS about management and goals (Read my previous paragraph about RL).

 

In fact, I propose something, play your game a bit, create a player, and make the serious attempt to harvest (no mod super powers) all the ingredients for that... then let's talk. Made a serious attempt to level a char to craft 61 from scratch w/o playing AFK, buying GC, etc, and then tell me what do you think.

 

It is all about work/time investment vs an outcome.

 

Harvesting is the most boring part of the game, people don't play games to be bored.

 

Exactly!!! Cruella and Zamirah FTW :D

 

but I'm also bringing in a little money and a little more xp than I normally would.

 

There is a point in the game where the impact of extra XP and extra gc is like 0.01% of what you really need, so it's useless. In fact, I was thinking as a way to protest to leave the bags with the 14-19gc extra GC in cave. Probably many players would be happy with that... :D

 

May be it that gc amount and XP grew up exponentially with the harvest level...

 

And by the way, in Ultima Online I certainly can do what we call here AFK harvesting in fact I've found so far one shard that allows it (And there are probably more). They just call it ALT+TABed harvesting (non AFK), for them AFK harvesting is fully automated AFK. I'll make a few questions more to finish clearing information and being 100% sure and then I'll post the URL for the thread where I've asked.

 

Also Landes Eternelles also support it (tough I don't know if count being basically the same as EL). Inclusive, I think they event don't have the standard harvesting events... at least I've reached lvl 18 harvesing with out hitting the first :P

 

Edit: 5-6 words more XD

Edited by piojosnos

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I have also been thinking, I think this change doesn't hurt harvesters who are online with multiple accounts to sell for $$. If they play with multiple accounts they already had to pay attention to all chars anyway, so now they just need to click a little more, but it stays the same => They earn money from a game.

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And by the way, in Ultima Online I certainly can do what we call here AFK harvesting in fact I've found so far one shard that allows it (And there are probably more). They just call it ALT+TABed harvesting (non AFK), for them AFK harvesting is fully automated AFK. I'll make a few questions more to finish clearing information and being 100% sure and then I'll post the URL for the thread where I've asked.

 

Isn't that true that each tile in Ultima Online allows to get only a dozen pieces of the resource, then you have to either wait for the resource to respawn or to move? It was at least the case years back when I was one of top 5 accounts on the Catskills shard before reaching all caps and quitting :P UO is not comparable to EL anyway, entirely different approach to economy and skill levelling.

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I think very few players are harvesters but only harvest because it's impossible to buy what they need.

It's not often people sell the sulfur and coal I need, if the prices were lower from NCP would I buy from them.

Harvesting is the most boring part of the game, people don't play games to be bored.

 

well Entropy had an idea to make harvesting more 'challenging'

depleatable resources, which would somewhat accomplish the same thing as mini-events, but less annoying.

 

depleatable does mean that a harvestable could run out, but it doesnt mean you cant harvest once its depleted, you just have to go out and look for more (how many iron deposits are there in-game? or silver deposits?) there are enough deposits in-game to always be able to harvest if that gets in-game.

before everything runs out a new deposit will have refilled already

could still afk harvest, just have to move once in a while.

is that too much to do? :P

 

 

Just for clarification please: It was my understanding that each lump of metal or each individual plant would have its own harvest limit, not each harvesting spot has a collective limit. Is that correct? If you harvest silver from a spot with 7 lumps of silver in the wall, each lump has its own limit?

 

dunno, the idea was shot down before details been worked out

if people allowed him to make that change, with a few positive suggestions from players, then the mini events probably wouldnt have been made

 

yeah cycloon, i play my main and harvest on an alt, all i need to do is click a bit more, and even earn more gc from it, those little amounts really add up ^^

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well Entropy had an idea to make harvesting more 'challenging'

depleatable resources, which would somewhat accomplish the same thing as mini-events, but less annoying.

 

If it helps to give feedback I hope something like this could be implemented, as it would be much more manageable with the vast amount of harvestables required!

 

Harvesting is the most boring part of the game, people don't play games to be bored.

 

How true! :P

Edited by Boo Boo

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2. Put a daily cap on the gc that flower shop NPCs and titanium buying NPCs pay out per player. (which I know can be abused by simply creating more alts to harv with, which is why #3 would be needed.)

As you said, that won't really work. it would only affect the honest players.

i was wondering, if that is really such a bad idea (to stop goldfarming).

I mean lets consider the extreme case, where the NPCs dont buy flowers (and titanium) at all:

What exactly would happen?

The only thing i could see as an issue affecting honest players is the fact, that newbies make their first gc from selling flowers to the shop (at least i did that in the beginning). But even that can be fixed easily.

So is there another aspect which i dont see here ?

Ofcourse i know that some people prefer the easy lupine bush over other ways of earning gc but is that really the way it should be or is meant to be ? :P

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In general I'm refraining from comment until I see the updated mini-harvest-event rate that Entropy promised. But I wanted to say that I fully agree with the point that Cruella makes here:

 

If I had a unique feature that distinguish my game from all the crowd I'd value and protect it.
Oh, so you think that other games don't have it because it's so advanced that no one else though about implementing it, huh?
What I think some people choose to play EL because they can blend harvesting with doing other things. [emphasis mine] This is natural, since serious EL projects require large number of resources.

This ability is a huge benefit in EL over other MMORPGs I've looked at and I'll be disappointed to see that distinction lost. No, it's not the only distinctive feature, but it's a significant one to me.

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And about lower goals... sorry, no thanks, I don't like mediocrity, and there is a difference between the word challenging and very boring, so if I had the goal of making 13k moon meds from scratch I really won't be happy making 9k, and you know how many ingredients it took to make them... that's just frustrating, and a game is supposed to not be frustrating. And don't tell me that in RL you some time have to set lower goals, or tell me any BS about management and goals (Read my previous paragraph about RL).

 

So basically, if you make a goal out of making 5K hydro bars in a week, I have to chang ethe game mechanics to allow you to do so, because otherwise you'd have to settle for the realistic mediocre goal of only making a few hundred, right?

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seemingly it all boils down to how you want to play the game, some people are happy going at thier own pace taking thier time not really worried about being ubber pr0 nerds and then obviously for some people the only reason to play a game is for bragging rights on how high your levels are ( in turn meaning how much of a nerd you are btw :P )

 

but then EL is kind of a slow paced game as it is, you cant really expect to be playing just a few months and be top/pr0/king nerd at any skill.

 

this change will just mean looking at large projects in a new light, perhaps even putting more emphasis on guild projects to achieve substantial amounts of nerd prowess , which isnt a bad thing as thats what an MMO should be about - finding good people to hang out with and do st00f together.

 

Yeh personal projects are great if you want to inject some GC into your own storage, but lets face it the only way to do that these days is to get a bot and scam n00bs with it otherwise you will be sat harvesting for 40 hours a week anyway , your still going to be sat harvesting for 40 hours a week but it might mean you have to sit with a friend/guild to achieve the same results

 

and if anyone has ever made a few hundred hydro bars in a week they deserve a webpage all of thier own dedicated to Sore Monitor Eyes, Sleepless Nights , Coffee , RSI and probably deserve some psychiatric attention to because this change to the game ........ ITS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD !!!

 

if somebody doesnt find the humor in anything ive just said it wasn't intentional honestly im sorry were not on the same wavelength atm

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Now that they've been around a bit, the opinion on them here is still... well, neutral.

 

Slight slow-down on them on the low-level fast harvables would be nice, mainly to survive the 3-line spam with each stop so it's actually possible to keep up with 3 channels and PMs (and GMs if you're in a guild I guess).

 

You gained 12 extra harvesting exp.

You stopped harvesting.

You started to harvest Sunflower.

 

It only takes 3 events to pretty much fill the top of the screen. Harving low-level stuff means looking at those lines more than the actual chats, as most people stick to "view all".

 

 

 

Higher harvs (mostly done turquoise since the change) don't feel bad enough to be concerned over. Sure, more clicks, but the harv is slow enough that it doesn't feel overwhelming like the faster harvs do.

 

 

So... can be lived with, and really not as bad as they're being made out to be (excepting that it would be nice to see the reduction a bit on the faster harvs, hasn't stopped me harving though).

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seemingly it all boils down to how you want to play the game, some people are happy going at thier own pace taking thier time not really worried about being ubber pr0 nerds and then obviously for some people the only reason to play a game is for bragging rights on how high your levels are ( in turn meaning how much of a nerd you are btw :P )

 

but then EL is kind of a slow paced game as it is, you cant really expect to be playing just a few months and be top/pr0/king nerd at any skill.

 

Slow and fast are relative concepts. Is a car going 200 Kmph slow or fast? It is very fast compared with walking, but incredibly slow compared to the speed of light. Same with manufacturing and 'projects'. If everyone does projects at a slower pace, what's the problem? It affects everyone equally, and it somewhat solves the problem of farming and illegal multy.

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I haven't read this entire thread because I don't have time to read 275 posts, so I apologize if I say something that's already been said.

 

Let's take a step back and examine the mini events from an objective point of view. The purpose of adding these mini events must be the same as the purpose of any change, to improve the game. But have they improved the game? Let's attempt to find out by looking at both the positive and negative effects this change has had so we can see if the net effect is positive.

 

Firstly, we must know the intended positive effect of adding the mini events; that is to say, the purpose. As I understand it, they are meant to stop gold farmers from harvesting huge amounts of stuff and selling it to npcs, thereby reducing inflation. (I can't think of any other reason to have mini events, anyway)

 

Has this worked? I can't speak for others, but I know if I was making a lot of gc by harvesting stuff and selling it to npcs, I would still be doing it. It takes more clicks now, but nothing else has changed. I got harvesting events before, too, just not as many. I can still harvest as much as I want and sell it to npcs, I just can't go afk for very long.

 

I can't say for certain, since I haven't seen any statistics, but I doubt that many gold farmers have stopped what they were doing. Perhaps they harvest more slowly now. I know I do. If I'm right, then adding mini events has reduced inflation very slightly.

 

The negative effects of adding mini events are, as others have said, slowing down harvesting and annoying players. Naturally, it's supposed to slow down harvesting, but with the purpose of making gold farming less worthwhile. Unfortunately, it slows down all harvesters, not just gold farmers. The game can't know whether a player intends to sell harvested items to an npc or do something else with them.

 

Again, I haven't seen any statistics, so I don't know how successful this change to the game has been. I would, however, venture to say that it has not been very successful. All the opinions of the mini events that I've seen have, generally, been negative. Most people are annoyed by the mini events. Some people hate them so much, they are considering finding a different game to play. I'm also annoyed by them, but I'm not going to quit the game over it.

 

It's difficult to draw a definitive conclusion of whether the mini events make the game better or worse because the pros and cons have little to do with each other, but I'll draw a conclusion anyway. It seems to me that my completely unscientific study suggests that the mini events don't help the game much and are an annoyance for most players. For this reason, I suggest getting rid of the mini events and instead doing something else to reduce inflation.

 

What to do instead is a different subject, of course, but I might as well make a suggestion here anyway. If we want to stop gold farmers from adding lots of new gc to the economy, why not reduce the amounts that npcs pay for stuff? If the flower shops start paying half of what they pay now, that would slow down the gold farmers considerably and have little to no effect on other players. It would take noobs a little longer to save up for an iron sword and exc cape, but I don't think that's a big deal.

 

Ok, this post is long enough. Any comments? Am I totally wrong on anything?

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I just wanted to comment on limited harvesting resources since that topic has come up.

 

I think that something like this could work, but the implementation would be tricky. If the resource is limited per-character then a person with 50 alts isn't impacted much. If the resource is limited globally then people who are in more Western timezones are going to be stuck trying to find the pickings left over by those who wake up earlier (unless the recycle rate is very high). People who only connect occassionally might spend all their online time just finding a resource, with very little time left to actually exploit it (similar to the issues with trying to find empty spawns on a busy day).

 

This is certainly not a reason to not implement limited resources at all, but it is a concern that would need to be balanced.

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