Restoration spell change

[Lorck]

[

EDIT: Oh, one more thing i would like to add. Please, please, make a new monster with lots of hp, lots of toughness, fast respawn time, near my levels for me to train on. No problem if they do a lot of criticals, i just add some physique and vitality and stay on them nicely.

Sounds great! as long as it's toughness is high enough for me to massively pump phys, still have high coord, and be able to barefist it and do minimum damage

Hint, you don't need high coord for cycs, just high phys. You should learn how to use the existing monsters before asking for new ones.

 

A final note:

I know all you 70+ mag and 110+ a/d peoples want to see it harder for the lower levels so you can all remain gods of PK for longer without having to train as hard, but that's simply unfair and just shows lazyness.

Oh, the generalization thing. Well, if you like to fight monsters which don't hit you and when they hit you have tons of hp and a spell which restores everything... just praise it. But sometimes, a game gets more fun when it gets harder. And honestly, i don't think that don't taking hits and when taking is 5-10 criticals, and having 300 hp with a spell which restores everything is hard, my opinion is that its way too easy and too rewarding (which will eventually lead to decreasing the drops for that monsters).

 

EDIT: @Korrode: cycs are different than most monsters. You really just need phys. I did cycs decently (i gained one level of a/d per day on them, training around 8 hours per day), with like 20/52 of c/p and starting at 75/75 of a/d. (of course, if your levels aren't on the high 70's, cycs will keep owning you, and you should train on lower lvl monsters).

Edited May 7, 2007 by Lorck

[korrode]

Hint, you don't need high coord for cycs, just high phys. You should learn how to use the existing monsters before asking for new ones.

oh i understand how attributes and the combat system in EL works quite well. A part of that understanding is knowing that the quicker you can move to a higher level monster the more exp per hour you'll get. Again, if your a/d levels are way higher than the cyclopes levels all phys is great! if your a/d levels are alot higher than any monster in the game then all phys is great, pretty much. But when you've been on ogres for what seems like for forever but your a/d levels still arent quite high enough to dodge and hit clops, you want coordination.

 

EDIT:

Once my a/d levels are alot higher than fluffs i will probably be resetting and taking alot more phys than coord. ( @ eMPi )

Thats because, from what i can tell (not really sure cause i'm not there yet), theres another big gap in good monsters to train on inbetween fluffs and yetis. I'll probably be asking for another monster to fill that gap then; because i dont actually want to #reset, but it seems theres no other choice if i want to gain mass exp.

 

I'll also note that i'm not asking for that new monster for me, it would be useless for me... i'm def 91 and coord 48; i'm on fluffs. I'm asking for it for lower level peoples, i'm not scared of them catching my a/d levels as i'm prepared to continue training hard and it wasn't long ago i was one of them, so i remember how tiresome ogres become

 

EDIT: @Korrode: cycs are different than most monsters. You really just need phys. I did cycs decently (i gained one level of a/d per day on them, training around 8 hours per day), with like 20/52 of c/p and starting at 75/75 of a/d. (of course, if your levels aren't on the high 70's, cycs will keep owning you, and you should train on lower lvl monsters).

I disagree, i tried clops with mid-high 70's def and and mid 30's coord and they still crit too much.

The 52 phys you had would have helped alot with that i dont deny, but moving to fluffs would be a pain with 52/20 p/c... another #reset ...what, we're meant to #reset for every single monster?!

 

EDIT2:

I should re-phrase the above statement; you would need much higher a/d levels with p/c 52/20 than someone with alot more coord before you could move to fluffs, and since fluffs dont crit hard, have 50 more health than clops and give better exp; getting to them as quick as possible is definitely a good thing.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Korrode

[Sisusam]

I voted yes.

 

It would be a great thing if restoration will be level based. I have always thought so, and I totally agree with MP and Lorck.

[korrode]

heh, i actually just thought of 1 benifit to this proposal going through;

If i only get ~120 health back when i restore, then once i've lost ~130 health i will start attempting to restore (i'm mag 39, very close to 40, i still fail when casting restoration a bit). No more waiting till i'm at 80 health or less before i start trying to restore; i will never lose a rosto while training again, and i'll lose less in PK. Theres actually a benifit there for fighters under mag 49 who have a CoL.

But dont get me wrong, my vote is still no.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Korrode

[Happy_G]

about cycs

 

all i have to say is cycs are decent for training on, i train on them ATM, the recent sun tzu day gave me 2 def lvls in 4 hours. the only thing i really see this change effecting is people going through more suplies, they will still train just as long, often storage is close enough to go to and from w/o losing the spawn, especially if you use ttpr

 

edit: just fyi i am currently 69/75/20/40 a/d/p/c i started training on them at 67/71/20/40

 

i take 15-20 min to bone one to death and gain 50-60k exp from them with about 1 att exp for every 4 def i get.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Happy_G

[Lorck]

EDIT: @Korrode: cycs are different than most monsters. You really just need phys. I did cycs decently (i gained one level of a/d per day on them, training around 8 hours per day), with like 20/52 of c/p and starting at 75/75 of a/d. (of course, if your levels aren't on the high 70's, cycs will keep owning you, and you should train on lower lvl monsters).

I disagree, i tried clops with mid-high 70's def and and mid 30's coord and they still crit too much.

The 52 phys you had would have helped alot with that i dont deny, but moving to fluffs would be a pain with 52/20 p/c... another #reset ...what, we're meant to #reset for every single monster?!

 

EDIT2:

I should re-phrase the above statement; you would need much higher a/d levels with p/c 52/20 than someone with alot more coord before you could move to fluffs, and since fluffs dont crit hard, have 50 more health than clops and give better exp; getting to them as quick as possible is definitely a good thing.

Nobody trains on cycs? Then don't miss the opportunity of getting always free spawns and level fast. If cyc start to get low exp, use true sight pots, it can decrease your a/d till -19. If i remember currectly, zamirah trained till her 100's on cycs with tsps, getting on on 100's of a/d in record time.

 

I don't agree with 'change the monster the fast you can' do get better exp, maybe to get better drops, yes. Cycs gives very decent exp, before the nmt cloacks, *lots* of people trained on cycs, ask anyone. Cycs drops crap, that does not mean we need another monster to fit the exp gap, cycs are very good as they are.

 

That all being said, its offtopic in the end. There is a proposed solution for a magic problem which unfortunately, as the poll result so far, will be discarded.

[korrode]

about cycs

 

all i have to say is cycs are decent for training on, i train on them ATM, the recent sun tzu day gave me 2 def lvls in 4 hours. the only thing i really see this change effecting is people going through more suplies, they will still train just as long, often storage is close enough to go to and from w/o losing the spawn, especially if you use ttpr

I'm not saying u cant train on clops at all, i trained on them for a while myself, but most people dont want to rip through supplies.

Lorck's whole high phys arugment is about being able to train on them without ripping through supplies, the rank 1 def in the game has his attributes setup so he can be on fluffs and not rip through supplies.

And you dont lose spawn when you leave it because very few people want to train on them, try leaving a fluff spawn on Sun Tzu day for a couple of minutes, see if its still free when u get back.

 

 

 

EDIT:

Your right Lorck we've gone way off topic, i'll stop posting. and @ current poll figures

Edited May 7, 2007 by Korrode

[Happy_G]

i didnt say i left the cyc spawn on sun tzu day, then i would have lost it, lots of people came throogh constantly on that day. but i also left my ogre spawns and was able to restock and get back w/o loosing it 90% of the time (with the exception of the triple ogre which anyone looses if they leave)

 

but thats part of the reason i see people not wanting the change, they already complain of how costly training is and this will burn through SR's and HE's even faster

 

edit so this is still on topic right?? BTW im smiling at the poll numbers too

Edited May 7, 2007 by Happy_G

[cho-yun]

i voted yes... i like change

 

If it does change i think the higher the spell the more essence it required to cast.

[RallosZek]

Just another thing occured to me. Isn't this the wrong way to attack the real problem? Cause it's not about restore at all, it's about spawns. And if that's the case, people will find ways around it, like having alts of friends, guildies or even market restock you at spawn. Leaving a hyperbag at spawn with HE/SR, is another possibility (hey, it was even mentioned as an advantage to hyperkeys when they were first introduced).

 

So.....first of all, this affects:

• People who mix on shrooms with low magic
  
• People with higher then 300 health, no matter the magic level
  
• PK, with higher then 300 health or between 49 and 75 magic level
  
• Monster training between 49 and 75 magic level, with CoL or low health
  

So, of these 4 effects, only 1 is the intended target. Bad imo.

 

Aside from that, the spawn problem does not really exist before ogre level. So maybe attack that problem?

Some solutions for that:

• make DCW better exp or move NMT and arti drop, from fluff to DCW, so that it's a good alternative to train on those and more people move up quicker.
  
• Provide a feros type creature for ogre level, comparable exp/hour rate, just a little higher up, between fluff and ogre.
  
• Add more spawns alltogether (omg!), especially since the server is supposed to scale to 2k simultanious users.
  

I'm sure there's tons of ideas out there to solve spawn problem. Fiddling with restore to attack spawn problem isn't gonna work, people will find ways around it and it has negative results for totally unrelated issues.

[Rockfall]

I think this is a good idea, it will finally give people a reason to train magic past 50, or really to pass 78...

I also think there needs to be more spells put in the game, as magic is only really useful for helping fighting/healing/teleportation

[ShYne]

Fights are already short because of cooldown, why would you make them shorter with this new...feature. Shorter fights = NO fun

[LeFallen]

FWIW, I like Acelon's suggestion, or a variation of it.

[Mango]

With 95 magic it should heal 400hp, even if you have only 300hp base.

 

And then like -5/10 hp per minute or so.

 

Maybe more .

 

 

Till a certain extend of like 100+hp or so....

Edited May 7, 2007 by Manderijn

[Cycloonx]

The only problem I see is that you won't have enough mana with the way too high cooldown on SRS. Except from that I always found restoration too strong so it's cool But maybe make it fail less at low levels, because you already fail a lot of restorations at the beginning, if you even get less hp by it then, it would be bad to use restoration.

[Gohan]

[*]make DCW better exp or move NMT and arti drop, from fluff to DCW, so that it's a good alternative to train on those and more people move up quicker.

 

Hey, don't do that, I like my free spawns in Bethel! The safety is Bethel then the chance on NMT/artificer cloaks in PK, imo.

 

Also, I voted no. Its hard enough to level my magic as it is, I can restore my full hp, even with the suggestion of 100hp and go up by +5 for each level from there. But still, even tho I can do full restore with that, I don't like the general idea.

 

Acelons idea of keeping restoration as it is with a slightly higher magic level needed and an extra spell, sounds very nice tho.

 

-Blee

[kl4Uz]

I'm absolutely against it out of very egoistic motives: I don't have enough time to level to such an extreme and I simply like the way it is.

 

However I understand the motives behind this proposal.

 

Yet I'm not in favour of it, because being a every-now-and-then player, this will make the game much less attractive.

[Marnick]

I like Acelons suggestion, but i voted no.

 

It's already hard enough to level magic with the high cooldown of SRs.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Marnick

[TirunCollimdus]

Ralloszek is exactly right about how this will not solve any of the problems that Entropy says exists.

I am not posting about restoration because I voted no and the problems Entropy stated are not being addressed by everyone who is talking about the spell itself. Is there something wrong with restoration,` is it too powerful at the level it is at? That is a topic for debate that has been covered before and it would be cool to do again in a thread about magic and how it effects the skills aspect of the game. This is not about how it affects the magic skill; as Entropy said it is about fighting and loot.

 

Too hard to kill people?

This is exactly what everyone wants. Long fights are more fun for everyone and more experience so losing and breaking items during fights is not as irritating because you get something(more experience) for your efforts. Long fights mean that there is a chance to try different strategies during the fight too and fighting is more complex than just walking up and wacking someone and they die. Short fights just suck. Fighting less and running to storage more is also more work and less fun as many people have mentioned many times. The bronze sword can shorten fights and increase the number of trips to storage already so why make fights even shorter again. You take away the experience and the fun from PKers and the game falls flat IMO.

 

Too much loot in the game from long spawn runs. Not solvable by changing restoration. People will start hbagging spawns with supplies instead of running to storage. I am one of the persons who would do that. The cost of a couple of keys as compared to losing a spawn is nothing. The more players you have in the game the more loot there is in the game because when a spawn is empty because of a storage run then someone else steps in and uses it so there is effectively no reduction in loot dropped anyway. Either people bring extra stuff with them and bag it or they have someone else haul it in. Yes some time is used moving things from storage but if you make on sight you can move it straight to the spawn instead of storage with no time lost.

 

The problem is not how long people stay on spawns and even if it were there is no way to fix that except to make monsters get gradually stronger the longer you stay at a spawn. I can have guildies, friends, or just someone from market channel bring me stuff at a spawn instead of going to storage. I have had guild mates help me stay at spawns already so it is nothing new. If there is too much loot then there are too many drops. I don't want reduced drops but it is obvious Entropy wants to reduce the loot so there is nothing we are going to be able to do to stop that from happening. Either we have reduced loot or he puts in more stuff to sink money into. I vote for the more stuff.

 

I say we get back to Ent's topic and stop trying to talk about what is good for the magic skill so the voters know what is really going on.

 

TirunCollimdus

[agis29]

I like Acelons suggestion, but i voted no.

 

It's already hard enough to level magic with the high cooldown of SRs.

 

You shouldn't train magic using sr's or pots generally.There are other ways to level up in magic without having to use a single pot...

[Fourier]

I voted NO for what I consider to be a significant reason.

 

Basically, imho, a change like this will make it next to impossible to

catch up to high level players. These folks have earned their levels,

but a determined player can catch them and participate in high level

monsters and pk. A change like this will make it harder for low level

folks to train and catch up, with virtually no impact on high level folks,

as they already have the high magic levels needed.

 

4

[Happy_G]

I like Acelons suggestion, but i voted no.

 

It's already hard enough to level magic with the high cooldown of SRs.

 

You shouldn't train magic using sr's or pots generally.There are other ways to level up in magic without having to use a single pot...

 

could you enlighten me as to how to train magic w/o using pots? ((and dont tell me sit in an FR spot, that takes time to restore mana))

[2coolfool]

just mana drain with a partner.. best magic exp you can ever get

[Happy_G]

b4 you have the lvl for that 2CF

Edited May 7, 2007 by Happy_G

[Zamirah]

Cast shield when you harvest, use portalroom to storage from mining.

It's all I did, level 66 now.

Edited May 7, 2007 by morto