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[23:44:07] [Felessan @ 3]: zigan is buying a iron set 14k pk him

[23:44:17] [Felessan @ 3]: pm*

 

Veeery Funny :P

 

haha :blush:

lmao xD that's a good one!

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[22:03:47] Aphistolas: I need to trade this Rapier for a cutty >.>

[22:05:40] [PM from Austin_2: im a cutty]

[22:05:52] [PM to Austin_2: =o trade for rapier?]

[22:06:18] [PM from Austin_2: no]

[22:06:25] [PM to Austin_2: -.- you're no fun]

[22:09:05] [PM from Austin_2: i thought ment cutie like a guy]

 

Lol.

 

Got his permission to post his PMs?

 

Yes. Don't ask again, please. I read the first post.

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Sorry Aislinn but i cant help but comment on this...

 

Is it a police officers job to ask if i stole this red car? when there is no report of a stolen red car?

It would be less work and IMO better and more fair to wait until someone complains about their PM's being posted, before investigating/questioning the poster.

 

...or ask Ent to modify his first post, and have it tell people that they must state they got permission in any posts containing PM's.

 

Just some suggestions.

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It would be less work and IMO better and more fair to wait until someone complains about their PM's being posted, before investigating/questioning the poster.

I think it more fair for a mod to ask a simple question, and avoids repercussions in the long run. No guarantee the person in the log even knows it's in forums to read and complain about. Not everyone wants to feel foolish in the public eye. Really, how is it such a big deal for the poster to answer "yes" or "no"? No need for an attitude about it.

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S

Is it a police officers job to ask if i stole this red car? when there is no report of a stolen red car?

It would be less work and IMO better and more fair to wait until someone complains about their PM's being posted, before investigating/questioning the poster.

 

So, the police shouldn't catch anybody unless there are complaints, right? I like this logic.

 

Side notes:

I don't feel I am police forces, yet, if I see some PMs posted and no remarks a permission was given I keep asking about it. Privacy and trust are both very important.

There's only one exception - PMs posted in the Outlaw/Abuse forums, but ONLY if they are posted by the person being a 'victim' or 'offender'. In this case I don't think any permission is needed.

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@Kheres

Firstly; I wont continue any debate about your questioning Aphistolas, i've said my suggestion, you and the other moderators can consider it and act on it, or not.

 

But in regard to this;

So, the police shouldn't catch anybody unless there are complaints, right? I like this logic.
That logic is fine.

If no one cares enough about an act to complain to the designated authorities about it, then it can hardly be considered a crime... infact, most all acts that are considered to be crime are complained about:

 

People complain to the police/authorities about their neighbours playing loud music.

People complain to the police/authorities about others littering.

People complain to the police/authorities about vandalism to their property.

People complain to the police/authorities about their property being stolen.

People complain to the police/authorities about their credit/identity cards being used by others.

People complain to the police/authorities about drug dealers selling their kids drugs.

People complain to the police/authorities about being assaulted physically by another person.

People complain to the police/authorities about the murder of a friend or loved one.

 

I'd say the vast majority of acts considered criminal are considered to be such because others would/do complain about them. There are very few crimes that a person could commit that wouldn't result in complaints.

 

And directly on the subject of police questioning or interrogating a person, with no good reason, prior to receiving a complaint or evidence indicating they're doing something wrong; I think it is a disgusting invasion of personal privacy and freedom, and an abuse of power.

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@Kheres

Firstly; I wont continue any debate about your questioning Aphistolas, i've said my suggestion, you and the other moderators can consider it and act on it, or not.

 

But in regard to this;

So, the police shouldn't catch anybody unless there are complaints, right? I like this logic.
That logic is fine.

If no one cares enough about an act to complain to the designated authorities about it, then it can hardly be considered a crime... infact, most all acts that are considered to be crime are complained about:

 

People complain to the police/authorities about their neighbours playing loud music.

People complain to the police/authorities about others littering.

People complain to the police/authorities about vandalism to their property.

People complain to the police/authorities about their property being stolen.

People complain to the police/authorities about their credit/identity cards being used by others.

People complain to the police/authorities about drug dealers selling their kids drugs.

People complain to the police/authorities about being assaulted physically by another person.

People complain to the police/authorities about the murder of a friend or loved one.

 

I'd say the vast majority of acts considered criminal are considered to be such because others would/do complain about them. There are very few crimes that a person could commit that wouldn't result in complaints.

 

And directly on the subject of police questioning or interrogating a person, with no good reason, prior to receiving a complaint or evidence indicating they're doing something wrong; I think it is a disgusting invasion of personal privacy and freedom, and an abuse of power.

 

I understand now. One steals a car/kills a hated neighbour/etc. No complains. Ergo, the one who commited the crime is perfectly ok and police (continueing your example), even knowing the crime was commited should stay still. :omg:

BTW. Posting PMs of somebody without any remark of given permission is a very good reason to ask about it.

Edited by Kheres

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I understand now. One steals a car/kills a hated neighbour/etc. No complains. Ergo, the one who commited the crime is perfectly ok and police (continueing your example), even knowing the crime was commited should stay still. :omg:
I dont understand your point...

You said: "One steals a car/kills a hated neighbour/etc. No complains."... but, people do complain to the authorities about those things... who wouldn't call the police if their car was stolen? or their friend killed?

 

 

BTW. Posting PMs of somebody without any remark of given permission is a very good reason to ask about it.
That's your opinion, i disagree... I'm a believer in Reason and Specifics, The initial post of this thread doesn't say you have to post that you got permission, i probably wouldn't.

 

A sidenote @Aislinn

I have no sympathy for people who don't read the forums of an MMORPG they play, especially a beta one.

(Such as the many people i'm going to be extremely rude to when they PM me asking to compete in the Naralik tournament next weekend, when the blue #message goes out saying it's starting in an hour.)

Edited by Korrode

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While we are derailing the topic and discussing moderating publicly...let me add my bit.

 

I believe Kheres posited a situation in which a person noone would miss/care about had harm done to him. In such a situation, noone would complain, so according to you, no crime was committed. This is not overly hypothetical.

 

Another situation is the wearing of seatbelts. If I drove down the road without a seatbelt, I highly doubt anyone would complain, but I would still be committing a crime. I can think of many such situations, generally where the "crime" is of the sort that doesn't impact another, but is nonetheless a crime.

 

S.

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If no one cares enough about an act to complain to the designated authorities about it, then it can hardly be considered a crime

Err? I don't agree with this at all.

Also what if the person didn't know it happened yet? Doesn't mean they don't care.

 

 

 

And directly on the subject of police questioning or interrogating a person, with no good reason, prior to receiving a complaint or evidence indicating they're doing something wrong; I think it is a disgusting invasion of personal privacy and freedom, and an abuse of power.
So you are concerned with the posters privacy but not the other person's? Selective concern it appears.

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I believe Kheres posited a situation in which a person noone would miss/care about had harm done to him. In such a situation, noone would complain, so according to you, no crime was committed. This is not overly hypothetical.
But it's clear there is community consensus that murder/assault should be a crime, due to the fact that in the vast majority of murder/assault cases, someone would be complaining.

 

Another situation is the wearing of seatbelts. If I drove down the road without a seatbelt, I highly doubt anyone would complain, but I would still be committing a crime. I can think of many such situations, generally where the "crime" is of the sort that doesn't impact another, but is nonetheless a crime.
Firstly, I completely disagee with victimless crimes, such as the enforcing the wearing seat belts, i believe in personal responsibility for ones actions (Libertarianism - click "Strategy" in my siggy).

 

Secondly, i know there are exceptions, never denied there were:

infact, most all acts that are considered to be crime are complained about:

...

I'd say the vast majority of acts considered criminal are considered to be such because others would/do complain about them. There are very few crimes that a person could commit that wouldn't result in complaints.

But it makes no sense at all to me that questioning a person for the reason Kheres did should be one of those exceptions.

 

 

 

EDIT:

If no one cares enough about an act to complain to the designated authorities about it, then it can hardly be considered a crime
Err? I don't agree with this at all.

Also what if the person didn't know it happened yet? Doesn't mean they don't care.

But once they find out, they would complain, yes?

Feel free to give me some examples of crimes that generally wouldn't be complained about by others... i think you'll be hard pressed to find any.

The law is designed to serve and protect the community, it's entire purpose is to deal with things that most community members would complain about.

 

And directly on the subject of police questioning or interrogating a person, with no good reason, prior to receiving a complaint or evidence indicating they're doing something wrong; I think it is a disgusting invasion of personal privacy and freedom, and an abuse of power.
So you are concerned with the posters privacy but not the other person's? Selective concern it appears.
There's no reason to believe that the privacy of the quoted person has been invaded, as anyone posting here should have read the first thread and thus would've gotten permission to quote someones PM's.

People in positions of authority should not walk around assuming and expecting that most people are breaking the rules, and if they do, they certainly shouldn't act that way.

Aislinn, if the police pulled you over and tore your whole car apart and told you the reason was because they think you're dealing drugs, yet they have no evidence and no reason at all to suspect you of it, would you be happy?

 

I also notice a rebuttal to my mention of privacy but none at all to my mention of freedom or abuse of power.

 

 

FURTHER EDITS: typos

Edited by Korrode

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So you mean to say there is no moral grounds for murder being illegal other than somebody might complain? Ouch.

 

 

BTW. Posting PMs of somebody without any remark of given permission is a very good reason to ask about it.
That's your opinion, i disagree... I'm a believer in Reason and Specifics, The initial post of this thread doesn't say you have to post that you got permission, i probably wouldn't.
It's thinking like this that prompted our "spirit of the rules" clause. No set of rules can be so inclusive as to cover each and every possible scenario that would be so obviously wrong. No poster can always think to include all conditions each time.

 

And again, if you are concerned about one person's privacy, it behooves you to be concerned for all or you really have no leg to stand on imo.

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So you mean to say there is no moral grounds for murder being illegal other than somebody might complain? Ouch.
I dont think the opinions of any one individual should ever affect law.

 

My personal opinion and morals make me feel murder should be illegal, and the law agrees with me. Great.

I'm sure there's religious nuts out there who think it should be illegal to not goto church or follow their religion, and i'm sure they think they're morally correct to feel that way... but again, the complaints of the bulk of society is, and always must be the deciding factor on what is and isnt law.

 

BTW. Posting PMs of somebody without any remark of given permission is a very good reason to ask about it.
That's your opinion, i disagree... I'm a believer in Reason and Specifics, The initial post of this thread doesn't say you have to post that you got permission, i probably wouldn't.
It's thinking like this that prompted our "spirit of the rules" clause. No set of rules can be so inclusive as to cover each and every possible scenario that would be so obviously wrong. No poster can always think to include all conditions each time.
The spirit of the rules clause only needs to exist because the rules of EL are not specific or extensive enough, imo.

Lets search the rules of other MMOs and see how many of them have a "spirit of the rules" clause... i wager hardly any, perhaps even none do. Most just have clear cut rules.

 

And again, if you are concerned about one person's privacy, it behooves you to be concerned for all or you really have no leg to stand on imo.
I rebuttaled to you mentioning my mention of privacy in the edit to my previous post. Edited by Korrode

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Aislinn, if the police pulled you over and tore your whole car apart and told you the reason was because they think you're dealing drugs, yet they have no evidence and no reason at all to suspect you of it, would you be happy?

Well how would you know they had no reason? I doubt the police will share their tricks of the trade with any civilian on the street. And could you please tell me how poor Aphistolas' life was torn apart by being asked a simple question which only was to protect somebody else's privacy as well? (Privacy you seem to value highly only for people who read the forums apparently).

 

I also notice a rebuttal to my mention of privacy but none at all to my mention of freedom or abuse of power.
There was no abuse of power. Kheres asked a simple question, not banned him from the forum or game. It is hampering his freedom to answer a question? Reality check?

 

I am done with this, it has gone beyond ridiculous.

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And could you please tell me how poor Aphistolas' life was torn apart by being asked a simple question
I'm sure it wasn't. I never intended to make any more of a fuss about it than what i made with my first post, as i said here:
Firstly; I wont continue any debate about your questioning Aphistolas, i've said my suggestion, you and the other moderators can consider it and act on it, or not.

 

I am done with this, it has gone beyond ridiculous.
I agree, and as i say above, wasn't going to continue any debate specifically about Kheres question to Aphistolas. I had no intention of responding to your initial post right after my initial post.

 

Kheres next post after your initial one where he said this:

So, the police shouldn't catch anybody unless there are complaints, right? I like this logic.
Is what got me to post again, and i feel i've proved my point that what is criminal is determined almost completely by what the bulk of the community complains about... so no more posts from me. Edited by Korrode

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I would like to read quotes of the week instead of this...

 

 

oooh and there's me thinking the whole of page 36 was a quote of the week :icon13:

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I found extrapolation's signature more amusing :evilgrin:

 

Amusing in a gosh that really sucks sorta way...

Edited by Enly

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[21:33:16] Cruella: Hi, I have your DB, meet me here if you want your stuff back

[21:33:34] Anonymous Player: Great, thanks! but tell me pls on which map I have died?

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