Guys, guys guys....

[shallara]

A little reality check guys. Randomly PM'ing female characters you see in local with blatant one-liners is NOT going to get you a girl.

 

It's going to get you yelled at. Repeatedly. By all the women of EL. Then you'll end up getting #abused.

If it's not appropriate for a stranger to tell to an 8 yr old girl, don't PM it to a character in game you've never "met".

 

That's why there are rules.

 

1. Use Appropriate language.

Do not use language which is sexually explicit...

 

2. No Harassment.

Harassment is not limited to the type of language used; it encompasses the intent...

 

3. Respect Others.

You must respect the rights of others and their rights to enjoy this game...

In other words, BEHAVE and TALK NICE.

 

 

(Disclaimer: There are a LOT of good respectable guys in here, this is directed only towards those that.. well.. need to hear it.)

 

Edit: spelling

Edited February 20, 2007 by shallara

[Atlantis]

lewl

[ttlanhil]

you think it's a joke? it isn't... need proof? try playing a female character for a few days and see how many losers hit one you (for those who haven't noticed, vakana is a female char, and I had to level her, so yeah... I've seen it)

[macca]

try having to make sure a 12 yr old is safe playing el which my sis has done for some time now :S

even she gets pm's like that randomly (luckily shes quite mature and has a lot of commen sense for her age )

[Entropy]

Well, can you give some example of innapropriate stuff?

[Gohan]

Little off-topic, but if any of those rude guys reads this. There are better ways to get around other then to use those one-liners, altho I'm getting a bad idea of what Shallara means, tho.

 

I'll give you a hint that works better.

 

1. Always be nice and use clean language.

 

2. Always carry a certain thing with you to hand out to those girls you got to know.

 

 

Well, so far for me, I'm back into hiding.

 

-Blee

[masterpiter]

 

1. Use Appropriate language.

Do not use language which is sexually explicit...

 

I always break this rule, ask scaRr if u dont belive me ;*)

 

 

eMPi

[Vanyel]

What about #ignore as all other players do?

[ttlanhil]

What about #ignore as all other players do?

sure, that works if it's just one or two people... but when there are a huge number of them? not all are that bad, most of them can probably be ignored, but that doesn't make it okay (although they think it is)

 

traditionally, EL's community has been pretty good. I wouldn't like to think that the losers can chase away the female players (or potential players; any time you turn someone away you usually lose their friends)

[Ryosuke]

you think it's a joke?

Yeh, it's a game. I doubt you will see any of these "losers" in your life. Just #ignore? It's not exacly RL.. hard to #ignore in RL ;D

[shallara]

Entropy: immature kids finding out about the filters and not realizing some purposely have them off wondering around saying "suk my d***"

Random PM's saying "hey sexy wanna do me""r u a gurl in RL?""how big r ur boobs?"

And those are mild examples. Other female chars can verify (as ttlanhil did)

 

The point about the #ignore is this. I am very aware of the age spread of pleayers in EL. If I simply #ignore one of these guys and say nothing, they will continue with other female characters. I owe it to my fellow female players to warn these guys to quit, and report them if they don't.

 

Most of us long time female players have a pretty thick skin about this stuff and do what is needed (as the mod team has witnessed).

 

I am speaking out on behalf of the younger ones. I have an 8 year old daughter and a 10 year old son that play. If some idiot were to PM my girl something along those lines, I would probably get banned for what I would say to them.

 

This thread also serves as a notice to the guys in EL that were unaware this nonsense happens. It does. It's not funny. When you laugh at it, it tells the idiots it is ok.

[Vanyel]

I've read not far ago that 8yo boys were arrested in USA for sexual harassment (not that they would even know how to spell these two words or be able to sexualy harass a single thing). I see we're abouto provide similar model in EL. Hurray. Let's just all go insane and #abuse each other, because "the girl there looked at me in bad way, I felt harassed".

If you're not able to deal with idiots on your own use #ignore. If you can, 'convince' (euphemism) not to talk to you or any other lady in such manner anymore.

 

<edit>

added one coma

 

<edit 2>

I was thinking about it and there is NO proof that all 'guys' that are doing it are really 'guys'. I bet there is certain percentage of girls pretending to be guys and behaving like jerks. I would ask you to change the topic title to 'owner of male character, owner of male character, owner of male character'. Since the form of the topic there is kind of chauvinism as well.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Anshar

[tranql]

Entropy: immature kids finding out about the filters and not realizing some purposely have them off wondering around saying "suk my d***"

Random PM's saying "hey sexy wanna do me""r u a gurl in RL?""how big r ur boobs?"

And those are mild examples. Other female chars can verify (as ttlanhil did)

Maybe they are roleplaying immature boys?

[Istiach]

this is a cruel world, the sooner kids found out the better

[Blodoks]

I agree with Shallara: several people need to be banned from EL.

Not only second characters used for this things, but main character too.

[shallara]

"I see we're abouto provide similar model in EL. Hurray."

"If you're not able to deal with idiots on your own use #ignore. "

 

This is the type of sarcastic ignorance that has caused some people to leave this game. If the "Powers That Be" want only immature males over the age of 18 to play then so be it.

When parents and families see the response to this kind of situation, I will not be surprised when they leave.

 

If you heard a man talking this way to a child would you then laugh and egg him on?

Thanks for contributing to encouraging the trauma of children.

This used to be a society I was proud to be a part of.

If the response to this thread represents the majority of the EL world I no longer am.

As a long time player in El and a parent, I am severely disappointed by the type of responses this has received.

 

 

There are rules for a reason. When players break rules so blatantly, is all of EL supposed to #ignore and move on? No. It seems that these rules regarding this type of thing are the ones disregarded by players the most. I thank the mod team for their efforts in handling this issue as it happens all too often.

 

Anshar: In the U.S., the word 'guys' is used as a collective when speaking to a mixed gender group. My use is correct.

Edit: typo, and Thank you Blodoks for speaking up.

Edited February 20, 2007 by shallara

[Ornitorrinco]

ITT, parents that rather raise their children inside a bubble than educate them about the real world.

[senkrad]

It is appropriate that even those who are young are shown there is conseqences for their actions. It is sickening to realise that the 8yr olds that are mentioned would not be aware that what they were doing was wrong. It is even more so, when people try to suggest that they were just being children. Children learn fro m their surroundings, having learnt that what they were doing was acceptable choose to emulate it. Yes it is unfortunate that they do not have more years of experience from which to temper the bad choice that was made, however it must be impressed upon them that what they have done has consequences and beyond that it needs to impressed upon their families, their families friends and society at large that allowing ones children to come to such descissions will lead them into harms way. I would rather hear that it was law enforcement dealing with it than an angry father with a gun.

 

I agree that there should be a certain standard by which we try hold our players accountable, as the rules already go a long way towards doing.

 

I beleive that there is not much that can be done by Entropy without it becoming overly burdensome to maintain, removing resources geared towards game development.

 

I haven't read the outlaws section but maybe there needs to be a section for generally rude behaviour.

 

Maybe start asking your guild and friends to add those players to the unfiendlies lists. #ignore them and get as many people as posible to refuse trade with them. Question their guild leaders about it and if their guild upholds their actions then it brings into question the respecability of their guild also. (am I mistaken or is there a limit to the number of players one can ignore similar to the limit of the number of players one can add to their buddy list)

 

Just because there is no longer the allowance for pistols at dawn when we are insulted that does not indicate that the insults should be without consequence. Greater creativity may be required to penalize those who stay just within the bounds of the rules.

 

The world would likely be a better place if we did not have to deal with such things, however until the world is such a place we do and it will not get there if we don't.

 

(before anyone decides to flame me over invasion of privacy or being a party pooper, it was pointed out quite clearly at the begining of this thread that the problem is from those who are UNKNOWN to you. This is not directed at the good natured and some times of questionable taste comments we are making to our 'known' associates in PM.)

 

Edit:spelling

Edited February 20, 2007 by senkrad

[Happy_G]

i made an abuse report for Bessy_the_cow she got msged on 3 different days by the same guy saying the same stuff. she was AFK when it happened so she couldnt abuse it right away and i saw it and was quite mad about it so i sent in the abuse report. IIRC it was Chance who talked to me about it and told me that they had banned the player. so the mods (or some of them at least) will look into these things and ban when needed. as for the rest of you who laugh and say just #ignore i agree with shallara. dont just ignore it. if some guy says that stuff to your sister in RL you would be mad too so its not much different if its said here.

 

(BTW in this particular situation the same guy had made multiple accounts to get around #ignore)

[shallara]

Orni: there is a difference between warning your children of the dangers of the world and putting them in a bubble. There is a difference between protecting your children, and others, when they cannot protect themselves, and putting them in a bubble. My children know WAY too much about the "real world". That is neither the point, nor any of your business.

Edited February 20, 2007 by shallara

[Creedka]

And those are mild examples. Other female chars can verify (as ttlanhil did)

 

Actually, I can't. I've been playing EL for about 2,5 years now (all the time using a female char of course) and throughout all that time only one example of a stupid Polish kid saying I had a nice butt happened. Everyone that knows me just a little is aware of the fact that they can't tell me such things. I don't use such language to anyone and demand the same.

 

And really, there is #ignore for a reason. If you can't make them stop, just use it. Banning them won't change anything in my opinion, they can always come as different people with different IPs, tell you some curses on PMs and log off.

[Vanyel]

"I see we're abouto provide similar model in EL. Hurray."

"If you're not able to deal with idiots on your own use #ignore. "

 

This is the type of sarcastic ignorance that has caused some people to leave this game. If the "Powers That Be" want only immature males over the age of 18 to play then so be it.

When parents and families see the response to this kind of situation, I will not be surprised when they leave.

 

If you heard a man talking this way to a child would you then laugh and egg him on?

Thanks for contributing to encouraging the trauma of children.

This used to be a society I was proud to be a part of.

If the response to this thread represents the majority of the EL world I no longer am.

As a long time player in El and a parent, I am severely disappointed by the type of responses this has received.

 

 

There are rules for a reason. When players break rules so blatantly, is all of EL supposed to #ignore and move on? No. It seems that these rules regarding this type of thing are the ones disregarded by players the most. I thank the mod team for their efforts in handling this issue as it happens all too often.

 

Edit: typo, and Thank you Blodoks for speaking up.

 

First of all, do not mess sarcasm with ignorance please.

You mean you're disappointed with every single answer that is not supporting your point of view? Interesting.

There are rules for reason, there is #ignore for reason.

If you want everybody to agree with your opinion you should stop playing online and multiplayer games at all, since every single player here has one's own brain, one's own believes and one's own free will. Do not insult them just because you think your opinions are anyhow better. If you cannot stand people disagreeing with you... there is only one solution.

 

You're missing one quite important point. There used to be below 400 players at time. Now there is well over 700. You're picking easier solution - instead of explaining offenders what they did wrong and why it was wrong you call for penalizing them. This is the vicious circle. They get penalized, they will read the rules, they will not understand them, they will come back, they will do the same. Great idea.

But hey, I'm only immature guy in the age over the 18. What I can do about it? Nooooothing. At least in your opinion.

 

Now...

Thanks for contributing to encouraging the trauma of children.

I feel insulted with this one sentence. It's just outragous. I never encourage such actions. I never did in such way myself. You're lowering yourself to the level of guys saying 'nice boobs', but you're way older than they are.

What I say is avoiding the madness. To avoid situation in which a 'guy' is afraid to talk to a girl, because she may not like it.

Once you start the topic like this you get different opinions. Insulting ones that tend not to agree with you in whole or partially is... well, would be silly if you're immature person below the age of 10. You're not. I take is as a serious insult then.

Regards,

Ansh

Edited February 20, 2007 by Anshar

[ttlanhil]

Let's just all go insane and #abuse each other, because "the girl there looked at me in bad way, I felt harassed".

lets not. that's being silly. but hitting on anything with a roughly appropriate anatomy? no, the ladies are (mostly, there are counter examples) on EL to play EL, not to hook up with random guys on the net.

a lot of guys don't get that, or think that even if it is EL first, since they're ladies, they can be hit on anyway.

sometimes flirting is socially acceptable. in those cases, not much should be done (although they should be careful about who they talk to... as usual, thinking and subtlety work wonders... but if they're capable of they they aren't the problem people anyway)... in others, if they're right out crude? that's not acceptable in most civilised places.

anyone who thinks that because it's a game or because it's online, they don't have to be civilised, should be looking for something else to do. this isn't just on the sex-related stuff, this is in general. those who think that being online means you don't have to act like everyone else is a person aren't evolved enough for online interaction, they don't get it

 

the majority of guys are probably okay. some won't flirt at all for whatever reason... some will do it in a polite and mature way... and some won't. those in the second group probably don't realise just how bad the third group is (most don't realise how bad it is, but the second group is the ones who think that it's harmless and it's being blown out of proportion. they just don't realise how bad it occasionally gets. then again, the parents about might, as pointed out above)

[Aislinn]

I think you all are missing the main problem here.

 

We DO handle these cases. We being the mod team. However, what we are unable to prevent are the first times. We have NO way to know who is going to make these problems. We can only react, we cannot prevent.

I have an 8 year old daughter who I won't let play this game or other games that allow people interaction. This is the internet. You cannot prevent those first interactions, and then the damage is already done.

 

To the concerned parents:

1. Look at your children's screens. Make sure their filters are ON. See who's on their buddy list and look at their chatlogs. If you are this concerned to complain, be this concerned to take all the pre-emptive measures you can. You have some responsibility here as well.

 

2. Mods DO handle these issues. Yes we tell you to put the offender on #ignore. And you darn well better do it. But that is NOT the end of the issue. We also do our very best to stop the behavior. Do we autoban at the first offense? No, not unless it was so horrific as to be unspeakable. But "what size are your boobs" really warrants an attempt to show the offender the error of his ways and give him a chance to correct the behavior. If he "gets it", yay, somebody learned a life lesson. If the bad behavior continues, yep...he'll probably get himself a ban.

 

The issue as I see it isn't how it's handled after the fact, but the attempt to prevent it from happening the first time. And I see NO way to do that other than to go play solitaire.

[Istiach]

imo when to kids shoot someone it happened because they didnt know what can happen, not because they knew how to do it.

 

All u need to do is to prepare ur child step by step, u cant protect them till they are adult and then tell them how all this things work

 

I think that protection in el is adequate, u cant do more, ppl always find solution how to break laws/orders etc