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Scarr asked me to post this for him (I did a search and found a few posts suggesting spells or changes to spells but this seems different to them):

 

I have some questions, and suggestions;

 

Will there ever be a "mage" type of play introduced?

 

- Items that increase Mana/HP, Resistance, Magic level.

(Wands, Staffs, Robes, Hoods, Caps etc)

 

- More remote spells for allies/enemies

Cast Defensive spells on allies (e.g Boost armour/def)

Increase of Remote heal

 

Much Love,

 

Scarr hand.gif

 

 

 

And you dont want the non mages (fighters, rangers) to use these items.

So maybe we could use perks and the magic nexus instead of

Human nexus for these items and spells?

 

 

Think this is a nice gamestyle to put in the game,

it would be amazing for invances and instances if

someone would be in the back supporting his teammates!

 

Would be nice to see people being proper "mages" as it were rather than the skill simply being an addon for fighters. Proper friendly buffing/healing that can be used in strenuous and competitive environments but only by dedicated mages.

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It is about time that EL finally takes a step towards some sort of a class system, or at least a streamlined specialization system, don't you think? I approve of this idea. Let's stop kidding ourselves. EL has a class, and that is a clusterfuck of allarounding. Keeping the current trend of being able to be a jack-of-trades in battle can remain an option, with a penalty being that higher level spells and equipment devoted to one who specializes be restricted to those who choose to specialize.

 

Those who choose to specialize are already incurring a penalty by having their options in play-style limited, along with not being prepared for any situation at a moments notice.

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It is about time that EL finally takes a step towards some sort of a class system, or at least a streamlined specialization system, don't you think?

No!

 

 

Edit: To clarify, scarr's idea is fine, as long as nobody is forced to choose to specialize as sora's post indicated. I agree there should be more mage abilities and it should be more important as a stand-alone skill. However I do not under any circumstances think we should be forced to select a specialty path, ever.

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Would be nice to see people being proper "mages" as it were rather than the skill simply being an addon for fighters. Proper friendly buffing/healing that can be used in strenuous and competitive environments but only by dedicated mages.

 

Not quite sure how you go about integrating "proper" mages in a game which doesn't have rigid classes, unless you're intending to introduce them. Imho, the fact that EL doesn't have such fixed classes and professions is one of its best features. Why not simply use the pp system to progressively facilitate more 'mage like' features right the way up to a full 'Harry Potter' makeover ?

 

I've never come across the term 'proper friendly buffing'. Sounds like the pk equiv of 'mutual grooming'.

Edited by themuntdregger

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Edit: To clarify, scarr's idea is fine, as long as nobody is forced to choose to specialize as sora's post indicated. I agree there should be more mage abilities and it should be more important as a stand-alone skill. However I do not under any circumstances think we should be forced to select a specialty path, ever.

 

But we are already forced to select a special path, by putting our pickpoints into needed nexusses.

 

The nice thing is, that we have a #reset command and are not forced to stay in one class/choosen path forever.

 

But back to topic: Having more stuff for mages would be really nice, more remote spells, area affecting spells, like noxious cloud, blessings (ok, that would be a shaman or priest then), fear and so on.

 

Hell, yeah, let them even cast earthquake or meteor rain or ice storm, but make sure, that they don't become too powerful. If they are magically strong, they should be physically weak, so that a fighter is able to kill them easily.

 

That can be done by requiring extremely high magic nexus for casting extremely powerful spells, so players can't put many pickpoints in human nexus and can't wear extremely good armor or weapons.

 

Just my 2 cents.

:)

 

Piper

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Could it be an option for spells to have "levels?"

 

What I mean is this: The average joe casts remote heal "lvl 1" and heals an ally for 10 health. But say there is a requirement of say 3 magic nexus, then the remote heal restores 5-10% more health because it would be "lvl 2."

 

The same concept could be applied to harm, restore, ect. also. for things such as shield, magic immunity, ect, If the "mage" has a certain number of magic nexus, then the spell can be cast remotely, or even AOE to all allies in range.

 

If this was possible, then fewer new spells would have to be implemented, and it would allow those wanting to be "mages" to specialize without affecting the already existing spells.

 

I have more thoughts on this, and I may not have explained it well, but I hope I got my point across.

Edited by Affliction

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I am 100% behind any improvements to the magic system ingame. There has been many suggestions over the years. And I would happily invest in 7 magic nexus if required to be more of a mage the fighter, or invest my gold coins into staffs, hats, capes, or whatever helps the mage.

 

I am also in favor of adding additional protection to fighters, rangers and make the system more balanced too.

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Love idea of improving magic system.

 

Some random ideas:

 

Perhaps to perform certain spells the player would have to be in Sage/Mage mode. In order to enter this mode you can only be wearing mage related items(robes, wands etc.) and not armor or traditional weapons(roleplaying: the metal in the armors affect the ability to cast the spells). Then you would have to shut it off to re-equip regular weapons etc.

 

Another idea is to allow certain spells only to the followers of certain gods ie: Unolas or perhaps Xiao as he had taught his people sand magic.

 

Edit: spellings :whistle:

Edited by Elf_Ninja

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Perhaps to perform certain spells the player would have to be in Sage/Mage mode. In order to enter this mode you can only be wearing mage related items(robes, wands etc.) and not armor or traditional weapons(roleplaying: the metal in the armors affect the ability to cast the spells). Then you would have to shut it off to re-equip regular weapons etc.

 

 

 

Gandalf used a sword... <3

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Gandalf used a sword... <3

 

Yes but i was looking for something to help balance powerful mage spells vs normal combat in Draia, Gandalf lived in Middle Earth.....otherwise we'd have Hobbits here and then they might get picked on more then the gnomes.

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Idd, the "mage class" gives the ability of an OP harm which can be cut off completely by MI, and not much else on the magic side. Mages are pretty useless in PvE, you can't harm your way through the mobs, it would be far too expensive, no useful buffing for yourself or teammates (Shield spell can't be cast remotely and isn't dependent on rat/mag) etc.

One of the (many?) neglected areas of the game.

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Mages are pretty useless in PvE, you can't harm your way through the mobs, it would be far too expensive, no useful buffing for yourself or teammates (Shield spell can't be cast remotely and isn't dependent on rat/mag) etc.

 

Not quite true - otherwise why would there be quite a few "mages" out there doing exactly this (using harm on mobs, healing fighters etc) in invances and even some instances I've been to?

 

One of the (many?) neglected areas of the game.

But yes, as it is right now it must be a real pain for them to follow their passion - and even help others - because of the limited options in that situation: single target remote heal, harm.

Thus I also very much favor some AOE or at least remote protection spells on the one hand.

On the other, I do second the idea of various levels in spell casting / additional abilities (remote, AOE) with higher magic nexus and / or magic level etc.

 

...just a few comments / opinions on the topic ;)

 

(edit: typos etc.)

Edited by Gwaew

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To people complaining about classes; you're misinterpreting the idea. It isn't to make a mage a definitive class but rather bring it up on par with ranging or fighting; a skill that you can choose to specialise in (via perks/nexus/items/stats) and therefore get a slight advantage over people who don't, much like rangers and to a greater extent fighters can do. Obviously very high levelled/rich people would be able to do everything, as they can do now with ranging and fighting.

 

At the moment it is simply a supplement to fighters and provides a way to move around the world quickly. It could and should be so much more, offering a different style of play and one which would add many new teamwork elements.

 

Maybe the stats/items could raise/lower the distances at which you can cast spells on others?

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To people complaining about classes; you're misinterpreting the idea. It isn't to make a mage a definitive class but rather bring it up on par with ranging or fighting;

To be fair, you didn't explain it very well first time round. Its still not explained well enough to support your conclusions. That seems a shame given just how much you claim they have to offer everyone. Not everyone has the attention span of goldfish and freaks out at more than two sentences. If an idea is good, be brave enough to detail it in full.

 

a skill that you can choose to specialise in (via perks/nexus/items/stats) and therefore get a slight advantage over people who don't, much like rangers and to a greater extent fighters can do. Obviously very high levelled/rich people would be able to do everything, as they can do now with ranging and fighting.

I take issue with your use of the word 'specialise'. The whole point of perks/nexus/attributes/stats system (at least imho) is to allow for the widest range of char builds ? I also take an entirely different view on perks/nexus/items etc. Seeing them merely as a way to gain "a slight advantage over those that don't" rather overlooks the fact that the game is not simply about pk, but also competition with environment, trading, guilding and socialising. If you're proposing to increase mage skills, surely you need to explain how this will balance with other equally important aspects of game-play ?

 

At the moment it is simply a supplement to fighters and provides a way to move around the world quickly.

Actually no. Magic nexus is required for crafting, potions and manu, not simply as a way for pk'ers to avoid repeated long walks back from the Underworld.

 

It could and should be so much more, offering a different style of play and one which would add many new teamwork elements.

 

Maybe the stats/items could raise/lower the distances at which you can cast spells on others?

I certainly like the idea of expanding the potential uses of any skill to increase styles of play and teamwork. After all, whats not to like ? However, I fail to see how your particular example illustrates any of this. How exactly does raising/lowering the distance at which you can cast spells on others (relative to stats/items) create any significantly different style of play ? Where do the many new teamwork elements come into this ? How does this make mage skills offer "so much more" (other than in the limited world of pk) ?

 

When you propose such a fundamental change, it needs to take into account and balance the interests of the widest number of players. I've nothing against simply copying aspects of other games, (as your idea seems to). However, EL is not (thank teh_god) merely a clone of wow. Long may that continue.

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To people complaining about classes; you're misinterpreting the idea. It isn't to make a mage a definitive class but rather bring it up on par with ranging or fighting;

To be fair, you didn't explain it very well first time round. Its still not explained well enough to support your conclusions. That seems a shame given just how much you claim they have to offer everyone. Not everyone has the attention span of goldfish and freaks out at more than two sentences. If an idea is good, be brave enough to detail it in full.

 

a skill that you can choose to specialise in (via perks/nexus/items/stats) and therefore get a slight advantage over people who don't, much like rangers and to a greater extent fighters can do. Obviously very high levelled/rich people would be able to do everything, as they can do now with ranging and fighting.

I take issue with your use of the word 'specialise'. The whole point of perks/nexus/attributes/stats system (at least imho) is to allow for the widest range of char builds ? I also take an entirely different view on perks/nexus/items etc. Seeing them merely as a way to gain "a slight advantage over those that don't" rather overlooks the fact that the game is not simply about pk, but also competition with environment, trading, guilding and socialising. If you're proposing to increase mage skills, surely you need to explain how this will balance with other equally important aspects of game-play ?

 

At the moment it is simply a supplement to fighters and provides a way to move around the world quickly.

Actually no. Magic nexus is required for crafting, potions and manu, not simply as a way for pk'ers to avoid repeated long walks back from the Underworld.

 

It could and should be so much more, offering a different style of play and one which would add many new teamwork elements.

 

Maybe the stats/items could raise/lower the distances at which you can cast spells on others?

I certainly like the idea of expanding the potential uses of any skill to increase styles of play and teamwork. After all, whats not to like ? However, I fail to see how your particular example illustrates any of this. How exactly does raising/lowering the distance at which you can cast spells on others (relative to stats/items) create any significantly different style of play ? Where do the many new teamwork elements come into this ? How does this make mage skills offer "so much more" (other than in the limited world of pk) ?

 

When you propose such a fundamental change, it needs to take into account and balance the interests of the widest number of players. I've nothing against simply copying aspects of other games, (as your idea seems to). However, EL is not (thank teh_god) merely a clone of wow. Long may that continue.

 

 

 

Troll...just because his explanation doesnt meet your standards, doesn't mean its not good and needed. The proposed idea, at a conceptual level, is a very popular, much needed improvement to the game.

 

You seem smart. If you spent have the time you spend critiquing others presentations of ideas on actually trying to help articulate and expand the concept , then you might actually be a contribution. Otherise your just being a long winded troll...

Edited by Affliction

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To people complaining about classes; you're misinterpreting the idea.

Sorry, I was responding to sora's post, not your/scarr's post. I chatted a bit with Scarr ingame and I agree with his concept.

 

 

To be fair...

You are absolutely right. To be fair, I am going to give the rest of EL a well deserved break from the trolling and you are on a posting vacation for a while. I'm tired of every topic you look at getting side tracked into idiocy.

 

The rest of you, carry on with your discussion.

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Thank you so much Aislinn for relieving us temporarily from this vermin. Thank you Affliction for speaking out loud the same thoughts which I also, and probably many of us had.

 

Back on subject, I also support any improvement to the magic in EL be it new spells, new specific items or clothing, limited to minimum level required, or improving in strength as level improves, limited to taking perks to be able to, tied to a god or spending pp. Have seen above and in older posts on subject already excellent suggestions, hope some of them will be taken into consideration.

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Since there are no higher level spells in game perhaps allowing mules and phoenixes to cast spells should be allowed with skill adjustment.

If you gave a -50 adjustment for being a mule and a -25 adjustment for being a phoenix a level 60 spell caster as a mule could cast spells at level 10 and and same spell caster as a phoenix could cast spells at 35. Maybe higher penalty to cast spells if creature level level reduces penalty.

 

This game is supposed to be classless so why not allow shape changed creatures cast spells?

 

It would be interesting if monsters could cast spells as well but then you would need to have some way of limiting number.

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I have tried to think of a way of implementing new magic changes that puts the least amount of work on developers. Sadly, I know nothing in the subject of programming or the likes. So this is my best guess at an easier solution.

 

This post builds off of my earlier suggestion of having levels for spells, but also includes the suggestions of requiring mage equipment such as cloaks and hats and staves.

 

As of now, the highest needed magic nexus in game is 5(for CoL). I could be wrong about this, please correct me if I am. So, lets keep that in mind as i develop this idea.

 

So, as of now, spells require no magic nexus to use. These base spells I will start referring to as "Lvl 1 Spells." No lvl 1 spell needs to be affected, anyone with sufficient magic levels can cast them. The idea for mages comes in implementing the "lvl 2 Spells."

 

Level 2 spells will require magic nexus. Lower level spells like heal, or remote heal, will only require 1 or 2 magic nexus to become level 2. the effect of each spell and nexus for each spell will be different depending on the spell, and how useful it could be once made more powerful ect. The best way I can explain this is by a chart. Lvl 1 for each spell remains the same.( MN= required Magic Nexus. E= Effect )

 


  • Spells----------------------------------------------Lvl 2-----------------------------------------------------------lvl 3
  • Remote Heal------------------------------------ MN:2 E:HP given X5%------------------------------------ MN:5 E:add AOE to allies plus lvl 2 effect
  • Shield---------------------------------------------- MN:3 E:remote shield------------------------------------MN:6 E: add AOE to allies
  • TTR---------------------------------------------- MN:4 E:increased range------------------------------------ MN:7 E: tele enemy to range
  • Harm---------------------------------------------- MN:6 E:damage +5%------------------------------------ MN: 9 E: Damage X15% plus AOE to non allies.
  • Retore---------------------------------------------- MN:6 E:remote restore------------------------------------MN:9 E: AOE restore to allies
  • TTPR---------------------------------------------- MN:7 E: tele's you +1 ally------------------------------------ MN:12 E:tele's all allies within range
  • Mag Imunity--------------------------------------- MN:7 E remote------------------------------------------ MN:10 E: AOE to allies
  • MD------------------------------------------------ MN:7 E: mana drain X5------------------------------------ MN:10 E: AOE to enemies
  • Invisibility----------------------------------------- MN:7 E: remote-----------------------------------------MN:13 E: AOE to allies.

 

This chart is just an example, and not my realistic expectations of what the levels should do. Many of you are asking by now, "How will I get that many Magic Nexus? I don't want to spend that many PP's on something!"

 

This is where mage equipment comes in. A mage can be expected to devote at least 7 PP to magic nexus, just like fighters devote 7 pp to human nexus to wear best armor. Next, The mage has 8 item slots to be used for "mage equipment." Each item intended for mages would give the wearer 1 Magic Nexus. So, a hard core mage has 2 options to try and become powerful, either devote the PP to Magic nexus. Or (what i think most would do) buy mage gear.

 

Mage gear would consist of wizard hats, robes, robe skirts, staves, spell books, mage shoes, ect. Each item would ive +1 Magic nexus, thus, if the mage was suited out in all mage gear and had devoted 7 PP to magic Nexus, then the mage could use the highest level of every spell(level requirements could also be given to spells in addition to nexus requirements).

 

This idea can be (imo) more easy to implement, since mage robes and the images for staves and wizard hats are already in the game. There could be items that boosted att magic, boosted def magic, give more mana, reduce cooldown for potions, and give some minor armor and def bonuses. (VERY MINOR).

 

If done right, this could make mages more playable and desirable as a character build, without making them too OP, yet able to hold their own against fighters. (another thought is that mage gear give negative effects like increased damage from weapons, decreased chance to block or evade, ect. so they are not too OP against fighters.)

 

I had more, but i have lost in all the writing and being distracted and being tired and such. Please comment and discuss.

 

P.S. I'm sorry for grammar and spelling errors. I typed this in a hurry because I wanted to get it off my mind before bed.

Edited by Affliction

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For AoE spell i think EL guild system alliance needs to change, otherwise it would be pwnage.

Maybe each guild should ally one or two other guild so there wouldnt be any issues with aoe spells at pk

Edited by Mistral

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I have tried to think of a way of implementing new magic changes that puts the least amount of work on developers. Sadly, I know nothing in the subject of programming or the likes. So this is my best guess at an easier solution.

 

This post builds off of my earlier suggestion of having levels for spells, but also includes the suggestions of requiring mage equipment such as cloaks and hats and staves.

 

As of now, the highest needed magic nexus in game is 5(for CoL). I could be wrong about this, please correct me if I am. So, lets keep that in mind as i develop this idea.

 

So, as of now, spells require no magic nexus to use. These base spells I will start referring to as "Lvl 1 Spells." No lvl 1 spell needs to be affected, anyone with sufficient magic levels can cast them. The idea for mages comes in implementing the "lvl 2 Spells."

 

Level 2 spells will require magic nexus. Lower level spells like heal, or remote heal, will only require 1 or 2 magic nexus to become level 2. the effect of each spell and nexus for each spell will be different depending on the spell, and how useful it could be once made more powerful ect. The best way I can explain this is by a chart. Lvl 1 for each spell remains the same.( MN= required Magic Nexus. E= Effect )

 


  • Spells----------------------------------------------Lvl 2-----------------------------------------------------------lvl 3
  • Remote Heal------------------------------------ MN:2 E:HP given X5%------------------------------------ MN:5 E:add AOE to allies plus lvl 2 effect
  • Shield---------------------------------------------- MN:3 E:remote shield------------------------------------MN:6 E: add AOE to allies
  • TTR---------------------------------------------- MN:4 E:increased range------------------------------------ MN:7 E: tele enemy to range
  • Harm---------------------------------------------- MN:6 E:damage +5%------------------------------------ MN: 9 E: Damage X15% plus AOE to non allies.
  • Retore---------------------------------------------- MN:6 E:remote restore------------------------------------MN:9 E: AOE restore to allies
  • TTPR---------------------------------------------- MN:7 E: tele's you +1 ally------------------------------------ MN:12 E:tele's all allies within range
  • Mag Imunity--------------------------------------- MN:7 E remote------------------------------------------ MN:10 E: AOE to allies
  • MD------------------------------------------------ MN:7 E: mana drain X5------------------------------------ MN:10 E: AOE to enemies
  • Invisibility----------------------------------------- MN:7 E: remote-----------------------------------------MN:13 E: AOE to allies.

No offense but some/most of these spells really aren't balanced (to be polite). Magic nexus 13 so I can save my allies a few invis pots? Make harm do even more damage, or even AoE? rofl.12 Magic nexus to remote tele allies? As someone with a mage build, i personally wouldn't take any magic nexus for PvE or PvP...

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You could even have levels for certain spells. Currently all "fighting" skills have it's own level (attack/defense/ranging) ...

Same could be done for spells, so the more you use one spell, the more proficient you are casting it.

This would also remove the OP of harm and other spells... Magic nexus could be used as an amplifier of spell effects (for all spell types) or to lower opponent's magic resistance/immunity (for attack spells).

I think this implementation could also lead to different "mage builds" (healer/supporter/damage dealer...)

One could also think about simple spell trees like:

 

poison (does damage according to your poison spell level) --> (at level X becomes) disease (does damage + lowers random stat, at higher levels could lower more than one stat)

restoration (restores portion of life) --> miracle (restores all life) --> wondrous healing (restores all life + removes negative effects poison/curse etc) --> gods embrace (restores all life + removes neg. effects + chance to get blessing)

remote heal (heals some of targets life) --> aid (heals some of targets life + chance to remove negative effects)

 

And so on .. ;)

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You could even have levels for certain spells. Currently all "fighting" skills have it's own level (attack/defense/ranging) ...

Same could be done for spells, so the more you use one spell, the more proficient you are casting it.

This would also remove the OP of harm and other spells... Magic nexus could be used as an amplifier of spell effects (for all spell types) or to lower opponent's magic resistance/immunity (for attack spells).

I think this implementation could also lead to different "mage builds" (healer/supporter/damage dealer...)

One could also think about simple spell trees like:

 

poison (does damage according to your poison spell level) --> (at level X becomes) disease (does damage + lowers random stat, at higher levels could lower more than one stat)

restoration (restores portion of life) --> miracle (restores all life) --> wondrous healing (restores all life + removes negative effects poison/curse etc) --> gods embrace (restores all life + removes neg. effects + chance to get blessing)

remote heal (heals some of targets life) --> aid (heals some of targets life + chance to remove negative effects)

 

And so on .. ;)

 

This system is used in games like TES. The only way to get better in a spell is to use it as often as possible. I like this suggestion in general, but it's quite a complex one to implement. The problem in the incorporation of a new system is the transition of the old one. How do you transfer someone with magic 100+ to a new system without either compromising his skill or leave him overpowered...

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