Jump to content
Eternal Lands Official Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Alia

Tentative addition to 'Suggestions forum' rules

Recommended Posts

Looking at several last threads in this forum, like these:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46800

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=47033

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=47052

 

and I guess much more, I can imagine how embarrassed topic-starters might feel.

I tried to do some search and (even remembering former discussions), usually I

could find only something like these:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42726

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19990

 

or like these, without definite statement from authorized person:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22754

 

This is why I think it would be a matter of politeness to add this kind of rule:

"Do not close topic with words: 'Already suggested' or 'Search!'" without giving at least one

reference to previous discussion".

 

If this rule is followed consistently, it will make some sort of 'threaded' tree, and will allow

in few steps restore the history of discussion on a given topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is why I think it would be a matter of politeness to add this kind of rule: "Do not close topic with words: 'Already suggested' or 'Search!'" without giving at least one reference to previous discussion".
I like this, or the corollary: you have to find the answer with search before you can tell someone else to use search. Finding a specific topic you're looking for with search is often easier said than done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So even though the original poster can't be bothered, admin should do his work for him?

Kinda reminds me of the people who post an opinion in a long thread saying: "I couldn't be bothered to read through this thread but here is MY opinion: ..."

Depending on the effort originally put in by the original poster, I will or might not offer the thread links.

Ironically here, seems you left out all the times I did do that.

 

Also, it states this:

*Also be aware that even though the developers don't have time to respond to every single post here, doesn't mean that they don't read them or take them into consideration. The developers will decide if a suggestion will be put in the game or not.

A definitive answer will not always be given. If an idea is good, it will be used or adapted at some point, or considered for a later date. If not, it won't. I don't think roja and ent are obligated to report in to every poster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you are lucky if you get such a reply at all.

my recent proposal was just deleted without notice.

Now i still dont know, if this proposal was already made in the past or if it is already under consideration or what i did wrong... ;)

 

and yes i did search this forum before and found nothing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
you are lucky if you get such a reply at all.

my recent proposal was just deleted without notice.

Now i still dont know, if this proposal was already made in the past or if it is already under consideration or what i did wrong... ;)

 

and yes i did search this forum before and found nothing

Ok this is exactly my point. Thank you for bringing it up.

Here is your suggestion verbatum:

Hi everyone,

 

just a small idea i had after some trips to the potion NPC, where i had to buy 97 potions every turn and bring back to sto.

In the NPC dialog window, where one specifies the amount of items you want to buy, there is currently only fixed numbers (1,2,5,7,10 and so on). I'd like to suggest to add a 'max' option there, with which you buy the max amount you can carry.

 

I searched the forum here, but didnt find this suggestion anywhere before.

 

I think it would be helpful and should be relatively easy to implement, since the players emu is also needed, when you try to buy more than you can carry.

 

best regards and thx for your attention,

Gilrain

 

 

And this is what I found (among other threads) by typing in the keywords "npc window options" (note: "npc dialogue window" and "npc dialogue options" also work)

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...window++options

 

I truly do not see why people are having such troubles searching IF they are really searching first. I don't think "npc window options" was an obscure keyword selection choice. I am really not trying to be argumentative here, but what is so hard?

 

Also please note the first thing written in BOLD enlarged letters at the top of the page when you get to the suggestions forum. It tells you FIRST thing that if you post something already suggested, in development, or already ingame, it will be deleted.

 

 

@ Alia: Your very first example of this thread is titled by fitzer as "failing experience". http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46800

I typed in as keywords "failing experience" and got multiple threads shown on that topic. I absolutely refuse to believe he tried to search and hence got no help whatsoever in finding them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i agree with the mods..

 

if it was already discussed once they should let me know of that! this is common sense.

 

however, i think the posts should not be necessarily blocked (that no more people can reply to it) because another person may just put in the link for me, or inform me about the result of the suggestion in the past.

 

it happens on the general issues forum all the time (about economy) and because the topic doesnt get blocked people state their ideas all over again and in a way its good i think.

 

i might read yesterday's post, but not the one from a year ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@ Alia: Your very first example of this thread is titled by fitzer as "failing experience". http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46800

I typed in as keywords "failing experience" and got multiple threads shown on that topic. I absolutely refuse to believe he tried to search and hence got no help whatsoever in finding them.

 

Yes, something like this can be found: http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23457

but here we come to another point. If last discussion of the matter was like two, three or four years ago,

maybe it makes sense to bring it up again, if people are still interested in it. Game continues to change,

new people join the game and arguments might be different this time.

Edited by Alia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, something like this can be found: http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23457

but here we come to another point. If last discussion of the matter was like two, three or four years ago,

maybe it makes sense to bring it up again, if people are still interested in it. Game continues to change,

new people join the game and arguments might be different this time.

I think you will also find comments from me being VERY supporting when people search even if it is a year old thread and they want to continue the discussion (as long as it actually wasn't put ingame or given a no for undiscussable reasons).

I don't think I have ever shot down anybody for searching and finding something. I am not sure what this point has to do with your suggestion and complaint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, I do not see a reason forums adminstrators or developers should be bothered to answer to a post whose poster wasn't arsed to do any searching. I find this suggestion an attempt to saddle administrators and/or developer and/of moderators with a task that should be on 'must-do' list of every single person posting in this forums.

If you want your opinion to be considered valid, it is a good habit to check firstly what others have said on the same topic. A good idea is to compare your suggestion with other, similar ones. Point out differences between your idea and already suggested ones. Explain why your proposition is a novelty and/or better than all others. If one cannot be bothered to do it then I'd think one's attitude is half-arsed.

Miss Aislinn stated searching is not difficult and I tend to agree with her.

If everybody who just had a 'great-and-always-original' idea posted in forums we would end with endless and repetitive spam (I know a lot about spam, trust me :pinch: ). Addressing each of posts like it would take more time than it's worth.

Moreover, there's a chance that a really good and innovative suggestion will slip unnoticed.

Edited by Iori

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Honestly, I do not see a reason forums adminstrators or developers should be bothered to answer to a post whose poster wasn't arsed to do any searching. I find this suggestion an attempt to saddle administrators and/or developer and/of moderators with a task that should be on 'must-do' list of every single person posting in this forums.

 

That's a generalisation if I ever saw one. Though, I think the board would benefit with an updated sticky on posting procedure. Something that says bringing up older discussions is preferred over making new threads on old suggestions, as I thought making a new thread would be more convenient.

 

Most other things said I tend to agree with, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If everybody who just had a 'great-and-always-original' idea posted in forums we would end with endless and repetitive spam (I know a lot about spam, trust me ;) ). Addressing each of posts like it would take more time than it's worth.

Moreover, there's a chance that a really good and innovative suggestion will slip unnoticed.

No, this is how it would end, if some mod doesn't pop up first and lock the thread:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46870

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=45463

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=45141

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=44650

 

this list can be easily continued. Where do you see spam here? People do not continue to post, when they are given

reference(s), unless they have something to add.

If you really think, like you said, I afraid you deeply underestimate EL community.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Part of the spam is from having to constantly see the same suggestions over and over ... enough that some threads just get deleted for their stupidity in not following instructions and searching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi, i really dont want to insist, but this example is indeed a good one :P

 

you can believe me, that i really _did_ search, but if you remember the title of my posting (as in the other mentioned case) you will notice, that i obviously searched with different words than you did - after all i am not native english speaker.

From my search i received either 0 results or some hundreds. From the hundreds i checked say the first 30 and had a glance on the topics of some more and found nothing that was equal to my proposal.

 

And whats more: even the link that you mention here is about a different proposal of solution, although it deals with the same problem!

Since i already had a thought that its pretty obvious to porpose an NPC buying dialog where you can type the number you need, i also was aware of the fact, that this would require some reasonable programming effort.

Therfore i porposed a solution, that could be realized imho with minimal programming effort and solve exactly the mentioned problem.

 

Interestingly enough even now after your post and even after reading the post you mention, i _still_ dont know, if this porposal is just rejected or being considered or...

 

Additionally i am fully aware of what is written above the forum and therefor i dont want to complain that you deleted my posting - i only mentioned my case here in this thread, because i agree with some of the points, that were in the start posting and to further improve communication.

I dont want to burden more work on you or anyone else, but i do think that it would be helpful for everyone, when there was the possibility for third persons to help out with the right link or with info about the status of a certain point, i think it would even relieve the responsibles.

 

best regards,

Gilrain

 

 

you are lucky if you get such a reply at all.

my recent proposal was just deleted without notice.

Now i still dont know, if this proposal was already made in the past or if it is already under consideration or what i did wrong... :)

 

and yes i did search this forum before and found nothing

Ok this is exactly my point. Thank you for bringing it up.

Here is your suggestion verbatum:

Hi everyone,

 

just a small idea i had after some trips to the potion NPC, where i had to buy 97 potions every turn and bring back to sto.

In the NPC dialog window, where one specifies the amount of items you want to buy, there is currently only fixed numbers (1,2,5,7,10 and so on). I'd like to suggest to add a 'max' option there, with which you buy the max amount you can carry.

 

I searched the forum here, but didnt find this suggestion anywhere before.

 

I think it would be helpful and should be relatively easy to implement, since the players emu is also needed, when you try to buy more than you can carry.

 

best regards and thx for your attention,

Gilrain

 

 

And this is what I found (among other threads) by typing in the keywords "npc window options" (note: "npc dialogue window" and "npc dialogue options" also work)

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...window++options

 

I truly do not see why people are having such troubles searching IF they are really searching first. I don't think "npc window options" was an obscure keyword selection choice. I am really not trying to be argumentative here, but what is so hard?

 

Also please note the first thing written in BOLD enlarged letters at the top of the page when you get to the suggestions forum. It tells you FIRST thing that if you post something already suggested, in development, or already ingame, it will be deleted.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Interestingly enough even now after your post and even after reading the post you mention, i _still_ dont know, if this porposal is just rejected or being considered or...

 

Read before posting!

 

1. Do a search or read previous posts BEFORE making a suggestion in this forum! "Suggestions" that are repeats, already being worked on, or are already ingame WILL be deleted.

 

2. Make a descriptive title for your thread!

Do not use something like "read this". Instead write out what your thread is about!

 

*Also be aware that even though the developers don't have time to respond to every single post here, doesn't mean that they don't read them or take them into consideration. The developers will decide if a suggestion will be put in the game or not.

 

AllEternal Lands forum rules still apply.

 

Honestly

I dont want to burden more work on you or anyone else, but i do think that it would be helpful for everyone, when there was the possibility for third persons to help out with the right link or with info about the status of a certain point, i think it would even relieve the responsibles.

Why do you insist others do YOUR part of work you should've done BEFORE posting?

Edited by Iori

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a sidenote to murdock, I was not the one who deleted your post. There are 4 admin who watch over this section.

 

I used words from your post to use as search words, different combinations of YOUR words. If you could use them to post with, I would think you understand english enough to search with them too? Just plugging in one word and saying "nope, no matches or 100 matches, can't be bothered anymore" just does not cut it, nor should admin do it for you instead.

 

 

As a second sidenote, most people won't know if their suggestions will be considered unless it goes into the game if it even does. (A sidenote to this sidenote: most suggestions do not get into the game).

I would say it's a safe bet that if your suggestion gets deleted, it is already ingame or in progress (meaning it's a repeat suggestion anyway), or it's a definite no.

Also a really good idea is to look (not post) in programming too, you can see there what is being worked on currently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Iori, i guess you want to stress the red big letters: so i can say, how can developers notice a posting even without replying when its deleted after 5 seconds ? :)

 

and: do you think, it is more work for the admins of this section, when they delete my posting or if they just dont ?

honestly, i cannot follow your point there, except if you mean, i should have deleted my post on my own before the admins must do it :)

If thats what you mean, then i'd like to excuse for my posting in this section, will not happen again :P

 

I used words from your post to use as search words, different combinations of YOUR words

yes, your (subsequent) search might have had more success than mine or you just think differently about my suggestion compared to others - i dont see the point here, i cannot search your brain before posting.

But the main topic of this thread is not about deleting my post (which is perfectly ok), but about if its possible to improve the suggestion forum rules, or not ?

 

so coming back to the topic, Alia said:

This is why I think it would be a matter of politeness to add this kind of rule:

"Do not close topic with words: 'Already suggested' or 'Search!'" without giving at least one

reference to previous discussion".

and i agree with the opinion, that admins/mods shouldnt do the search work that the poster might have failed with, but then we still have the point: why _closing_ the posting ? this only prevents third persons to explain further details to the poster, maybe even add a link.

 

best regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its been clearly stated by two mods now that we aren't going to do the work that you should have done to begin with for you.

 

I don't see why this discussion is continuing, the suggestion forum rules are clearly stated and in your face. Get over it if your suggestion is deleted... 90% of the time it wasn't a good one to begin with :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Iori, i guess you want to stress the red big letters: so i can say, how can developers notice a posting even without replying when its deleted after 5 seconds ? :)

 

Reading is a multi-dimensional cognitive process of decoding symbols for the purpose of deriving meaning (reading comprehension) and/or constructing meaning.

Obviously, you got to the first part of the reading process - you are able to decode symbols and group them into words. Unfortunately, you usually decide to finish on it.

 

Seriously, all of four people who are able to delete even a single post in this forums are ones involved in game developing. Do you really think they're deleting any posts here without reading them?

 

and: do you think, it is more work for the admins of this section, when they delete my posting or if they just dont ?

honestly, i cannot follow your point there, except if you mean, i should have deleted my post on my own before the admins must do it :)

If thats what you mean, then i'd like to excuse for my posting in this section, will not happen again :P

 

Honestly READ what has been already said in this thread. Removing repetitive (spammy) ideas like the one you're crying about is a part of forums HYGIENE. Forums admins are wasting their time and deal with effects of our laziness (lack of searching/half-arsed searching), because they do not want us to waste our time on commenting something that already has been discussed (usually more than once). Instead of crying over it you should express your gratitude for their hard work.

 

I used words from your post to use as search words, different combinations of YOUR words

yes, your (subsequent) search might have had more success than mine or you just think differently about my suggestion compared to others - i dont see the point here, i cannot search your brain before posting.

 

Your suggestion addressed NPC window options. Instead of searching in Aislinn's brain search in forums. Results may be pretty much satisfactory.

 

But the main topic of this thread is not about deleting my post (which is perfectly ok), but about if its possible to improve the suggestion forum rules, or not ?

 

Anybody reading this thread might get slightly different impression.

 

so coming back to the topic, Alia said:
This is why I think it would be a matter of politeness to add this kind of rule:

"Do not close topic with words: 'Already suggested' or 'Search!'" without giving at least one

reference to previous discussion".

and i agree with the opinion, that admins/mods shouldnt do the search work that the poster might have failed with, but then we still have the point: why _closing_ the posting ? this only prevents third persons to explain further details to the poster, maybe even add a link.

 

I tend to disagree. The discussed suggestion may turn Suggestion Forums in a scrapyard and spam-fest thus the forums would stop serving its purpose (suggesting innovative and novelty ideas). Other than this, 'third persons's role isn't doing your work, either. It is YOU who is supposed to SEARCH before POSTING.

Edited by Iori

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if it is possible with the forum's software, I know it is for ZetaBoards, but perhaps "tags" could be enabled for this forum. Then threads could be tagged with keywords to ease searching for them.

Tagging is done by the person starting the thread and perhaps we could get one sticky thread with tags and where to apply what tag.

This should improve the results of the rather crappy forum search engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh geeze..the words inside your posts ARE tags..ok enough of this discussion, I think people made it clear already. No use wasting more breath.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×