So, what do we think about the new changes?

[Entropy]

It doesn't matter for you anyway, because you are banned.

[Bleuren]

just lowering the mana potion to 5 isn't going to help Entropy...

 

LOL, pwned!

Of course it's not going to help you guys, which is why I was more than happy to return it to the way it was.

Next time maybe people should not complain when they get a gift.

And if I hear more "I use mana potions not SRs", I'll make the mana potions give 2 mana, so you will use SRs.

BTW, a vial cost 3 gold and 4 quartz, not 8gc as you mentioned earlier in this thread. Yes, you are antisocial, but then again, you expected to get 10 PP for free?

 

besides keeping mana pots at 10 EP and increasing Sr's EP isn't the end of the world ;*D

 

Nor is reducing the mp to 2 mana.

Well then I outa slap the people complainning that it's making sr's useless, it conserved money for me, was less of a hassle I enjoyed it very much, don't listen to the few who moan about it, show them whos teh god and change it back

[RallosZek]

It doesn't matter for you anyway, because you are banned.

 

Funny, she quit the game before the ban. Maybe that's a little backwards, huh?

[RallosZek]

3 different requirements for the same spell? That's not the most consistent thing in the world, I am afraid.

 

It is less consistent to have a spell be more powerful, without changing the requirements needed to cast it. It's a bit harder to implement maybe, but everyone will understand it. And it makes more sense for cost (45gc a heal for a newbie is rough) and emu.

Yes, there's the free healer at IP - gives no magic exp though.

[Barmoaro]

Cool, I admit that I didn't read all the 21 pages, just skimmed through, didn't find anything on this.

 

So, when you loose the connection to the server (or log off), your cooldown timer starts from the beginning. That's not very nice for people like me whose "internet" is not stable, how about the cooldown timer continuing where it was left instead of resetting the timer?

[cordelia]

Of course. But as I explained a few times on this thread, the things I wanted to keep I kept (no vials, the harm and mana drain spell),

Hmm... You said you wanted to keep three things:

(1) no vials

(2) harm

(3) mana drain spell

 

Yet, you said one day earlier:

And while I am at it, I'll make the magic spells as they were, both in power and in ingredients/mana.

Gee, you wanted to keep (2) and (3) so much that halfway through you decided you weren't going to keep them? And then later on, when ppl argued against it, you reversed again.

Nice post-hoc rationalization. If you decide you're going to implement some changes, then have the balls to implement them and don't go posting for feedback 11 minutes later, and change things arbitrarily to and fro based on massed hysterical opinion. You said you learned these lessons yourself. Apparently not.

 

 

and the things I thought would be nice for the players, but without a major economical implication, such as the increased mana from that potion, were removed.

 

Without major economical implication?? Somewhere else, you posted some statistics that there are close to 30,000 vials leaving the game each day. For Harvy to make 30,000 vials would be 150,000 quartz each day.

How much quartz is entering the game now? How much less is it than 150,000? Supply and Demand, the price of quartz will shoot through the roof. How much will vials cost? Maybe 10gold from Mira. You can buy up to 36 at one time for 10gold each, then quaff them over 360 seconds, or 6 minutes. That means you can create 6 vials a minute, or 360 vials an hour. How many hours have to be spend to create 30,000 vials?

 

Vials will cost 12-15gc each, vial usage will shoot down, because no one can afford them, and basically a/d training will stop. Lovely way to take care of your game.

Edited July 15, 2006 by cordelia

[Mireille]

 

Vials will cost 12-15gc each, vial usage will shoot down, because no one can afford them, and basically a/d training will stop. Lovely way to take care of your game.

 

He he he....

 

Since no-one replied to my question, I'll ask again: why is vast oversupply of vials a bad thing? Who loses because of it? It's not as if people were making vials for money.

[maximos]

Vials will cost 12-15gc each, vial usage will shoot down, because no one can afford them, and basically a/d training will stop. Lovely way to take care of your game.

this is bad to hear, the entire game mostly evolves around a/d training.

if she is right, (i know her; she probably is) then there'll be no more fighting in this game in the future, leaving this game no funny skills

[Ermabwed]

Oh, come on. Somewhere above it said we'll be able to make vials and the fact that they disappear won't change, so... maybe better to post a suggestion on ingreds for vials than to go on about that (though btw. of course it's bad if there's an average of 50k vials (just an example!) in every players storage, shows that something about vials is SEVERLY wrong).

 

I suggest: 2 quartz and 1 fire essence for vial, make it need a tool/form of sorts (like ring mold for rings), not sure were the experience gained should go.

[RallosZek]

 

Vials will cost 12-15gc each, vial usage will shoot down, because no one can afford them, and basically a/d training will stop. Lovely way to take care of your game.

 

He he he....

 

Since no-one replied to my question, I'll ask again: why is vast oversupply of vials a bad thing? Who loses because of it? It's not as if people were making vials for money.

Nobody lost, but apparently some people were complaining about it in the economy fixing thread. Now newbies loose, cause guilds won't be so friendly anymore setting up a new recruit with some vials to level his/her potions.

[Mireille]

Nobody lost, but apparently some people were complaining about it in the economy fixing thread. Now newbies loose, cause guilds won't be so friendly anymore setting up a new recruit with some vials to level his/her potions.

 

If nobody lost, then why bother?

[maximos]

Nobody lost, but apparently some people were complaining about it in the economy fixing thread. Now newbies loose, cause guilds won't be so friendly anymore setting up a new recruit with some vials to level his/her potions.

 

If nobody lost, then why bother?

read better, newbies loose

[Mireille]

 

If nobody lost, then why bother?

read better, newbies loose

 

That's a good reason alright.

[Pyewacket]

Hang on, how is 45gc for a remote heal too much for newbs? Wasnt there an arguement that newbs can get a plate set n serp in one day harving blue lupines recently? They have the potential to earn more than i do simply because they lack the research/nex to follow a skill path for income and are reduced to harvesting flowers for cash.

 

But I dont wanna hear "this costs too much for newbs" as an arguement as it is totally unfounded when they walk around in plate sets for training in (coz they can replace their losses easily by picking more flowers).

[skodarap]

actually newbies will have the advantage, because they didn't get used to old system (with vials recycling), so they probably will adapt they way of playing to this system from the beginning...

 

the only ppl who lost something are veterans that are "unable" to adapt to the change... same thing as cooldown almost

 

#edit: ur right shallara...my english sux

Edited July 15, 2006 by skodarap

[shallara]

actually newbies will have the advantage, because they didn't get used to old system (with vials recycling), so they probably will adopt they way of playing to this system from the beginning...

 

the only ppl who lost something are veterans that are "unable" to adopt to the change... same thing as cooldown almost

 

 

Firts off, I'm presuming you mean 'adapt'. Second, you are talking about the very same people that sufffered through the massive crash, had to remake their characters, start completely over, reform their guilds, rebuild everything. You're talking about the people that have been here for well over two years, pushing three, and have always rolled with the punches and taken things in stride. Sure there have been some changes along the way, this game is in beta mode and we are the testers. This means we must be willing to accept and adapt to changes. Entropy has been gracious enough to ASK our views on things. He does NOT have to. In this game, he IS God. He can do whatever the hell he wants and give ZERO explanation. ZERO options for players to have a say.

Guys, this game is NOT a democracy. It IS a dictatorship, with Ent in charge. He is allowing us to give input about his decisions. Do not abuse this, for it will surely go away.

Edited July 15, 2006 by shallara

[RallosZek]

Hang on, how is 45gc for a remote heal too much for newbs? Wasnt there an arguement that newbs can get a plate set n serp in one day harving blue lupines recently? They have the potential to earn more than i do simply because they lack the research/nex to follow a skill path for income and are reduced to harvesting flowers for cash.

 

But I dont wanna hear "this costs too much for newbs" as an arguement as it is totally unfounded when they walk around in plate sets for training in (coz they can replace their losses easily by picking more flowers).

Not everyone enjoys selling flowers. Just cause some newbies make those mistakes, it should never be an argument. If it was up to me, flowershops would be removed, or capped at 240 flowers per hour per char, since this game is about exp, not about goldcoins. And this is also the reason I *buy* flowers from players at .5 each.

 

When you actually play the game and try to get exp instead of running up and down a flower bush, 45gc a heal is a lot, but even more, 6emu per heal at 200emu minus armor, leaves not much room for looting and requires a lot of restocking.

[Ghrae]

Without major economical implication?? Somewhere else, you posted some statistics that there are close to 30,000 vials leaving the game each day. For Harvy to make 30,000 vials would be 150,000 quartz each day.

How much quartz is entering the game now? How much less is it than 150,000? Supply and Demand, the price of quartz will shoot through the roof. How much will vials cost? Maybe 10gold from Mira. You can buy up to 36 at one time for 10gold each, then quaff them over 360 seconds, or 6 minutes. That means you can create 6 vials a minute, or 360 vials an hour. How many hours have to be spend to create 30,000 vials?

 

Vials will cost 12-15gc each, vial usage will shoot down, because no one can afford them, and basically a/d training will stop. Lovely way to take care of your game.

 

I can only assume you're a fairly new player. Because it sounds as if you only have experience during the feasting pot / cool down era of this game.

 

There are so many ways for players to adapt. Here's an easy one: Bring a bunch of essences to Mira. Sit at her feet looking up at her. Buy mana potions, cast magic spells, consume mana potions. Cooldown? Ok, so read the forums or chat with your friends at the same time. And please don't tell me that you are so effecient that you don't ever lose in game time to forums or chatting. This method allows you to train magic and get vials at the same time. And it's been around EL since I started (2.5 years ago).

 

A/D training will stop? Why? Who has large EMU? Oh wait, that would be the p/c pumped up fighters. Quartz mining isn't that difficult. They could harv quartz with ease and move it from DP to Harvy (what are we talking? 20 whole steps?) faster than the average potion specialist.

 

Cost of SRs/BRs 1 year ago: 15-20gc (with / without vial).

Cost of SRs/BRs 2 weeks ago: 9gc! (A lot people weren't even advertising the need for vials due to the over supply)

 

So OMFG! Prices may go up?! Damn you Entropy for helping potion makers make a few gold coins and slow down the over production that has been hurting the economy and for suggesting that fighters who only want to train be more integrated into the market instead of making their own and not really interacting with the other players!!!!!!!~1! Damn you, Ent!!! [/sarcasm]

 

Seriously, everytime such a change occurs, people freak out. And I do mean freak out. They take it as personal affronts, damn Entropy and threaten to quit the game.

 

If they were to take all that energy and pretend as if the game had always been that way and now look for ways to get around it... they'd soon realize that these changes (though they SEEM earth shattering) are really fairly minor. They only seem earth shattering because they effect so many. But so many have been taking advantage of problems and have become dependent, almost like an addiction. They've learned NOT to work for it and NOT to earn it. Now they will have to work and earn. Welcome to life.

[Lorck]

I agree with everything that Ghrae said.

 

Furthermore since there was added two new monster drop cloacks, maybe fighters can earn more rewards to cover the time or gc spent getting new vials.

[Ghrae]

I agree with everything that Ghrae said.

 

Furthermore since there was added two new monster drop cloacks, maybe fighters can earn more rewards to cover the time or gc spent getting new vials.

 

And new potion books! (Is anyone selling? )

Edited July 15, 2006 by Ghrae

[maximos]

but still; why change things that aren't bad

 

maybe make a 100% loss rate of vials ONLY on feasting.

That way a lot of vials will disappear from the game but Sr prices won't go up too high.

[duran]

and then people start avoiding potions that have close to or 100% loss rate on vials as they are a pure expense. either the loss have to be across the line or not, if not people stick to those that are less "lossy".

 

same thing is currently going on with item production, those that have less npc value then their parts are avoided in favor of those that have more value then their parts. therefor you see people producing low xp items for level and levels...

Edited July 15, 2006 by duran

[0ctane]

If they were to take all that energy and pretend as if the game had always been that way and now look for ways to get around it... they'd soon realize that these changes (though they SEEM earth shattering) are really fairly minor. They only seem earth shattering because they effect so many. But so many have been taking advantage of problems and have become dependent, almost like an addiction. They've learned NOT to work for it and NOT to earn it. Now they will have to work and earn. Welcome to life.

And who is the best example of this perhaps? Well, my vote would be MrMind. At every game change, MrMind has figured out how to "get around it" or, as others would say, "manipulate the system." And, therefore, we must all adapt to a new style of gameplay. I suggest everyone takes Ghrae's advice, especially since some of us have already adapted to use the new system to our advantage.

[cordelia]

 

I can only assume you're a fairly new player. Because it sounds as if you only have experience during the feasting pot / cool down era of this game.

 

There are so many ways for players to adapt. Here's an easy one: Bring a bunch of essences to Mira. Sit at her feet looking up at her. Buy mana potions, cast magic spells, consume mana potions. Cooldown? Ok, so read the forums or chat with your friends at the same time. And please don't tell me that you are so effecient that you don't ever lose in game time to forums or chatting. This method allows you to train magic and get vials at the same time. And it's been around EL since I started (2.5 years ago).

24 second SR cooldown is already the thing that limits magic training. Now you're proposing to train magic with 40 second SR cooldown. Fine, even if this works. What's the cost of a vial? 10gc + trouble to extend magic cooldown from 24 to 40 seconds, and then haul the vials back to storage. 11gc minimum, if not more.

Besides, didn't Ent say he did NOT want this to be the source of vials? He wanted Harvy to be the source?

 

A/D training will stop? Why? Who has large EMU? Oh wait, that would be the p/c pumped up fighters. Quartz mining isn't that difficult. They could harv quartz with ease and move it from DP to Harvy (what are we talking? 20 whole steps?) faster than the average potion specialist.

Rallos said:

At 620 emu, I get 60 vials for 20mins of work. That can never balance out the number of vials that is needed.

 

Either way.....when the bitching is filtered out, you can see that people who understand the market economy, give solid suggestions to fix this vial drain, which cannot be compensated by harvy ever, unless the quartz portion is removed.

60 vials over 20 minutes of work? for a 620 emu fighter? Well, gee, that means he can get 180 vials an hour. By running flowers, he could get 5000gc per hour. Which one is more boring? I'd say they're about the same. That means for this to be effective, the vials would have to be more than 27 gc each.

 

Cost of SRs/BRs 1 year ago: 15-20gc (with / without vial).

Cost of SRs/BRs 2 weeks ago: 9gc! (A lot people weren't even advertising the need for vials due to the over supply)

 

So OMFG! Prices may go up?! Damn you Entropy for helping potion makers make a few gold coins and slow down the over production that has been hurting the economy and for suggesting that fighters who only want to train be more integrated into the market instead of making their own and not really interacting with the other players!!!!!!!~1! Damn you, Ent!!! [/sarcasm]

 

Why in the world do you think potion makers actually make more marginal profit than they did last week?

The cost of selling an SR is now 20gc. The cost of making an SR is now 17gc. They're the exact same as they were before the update: Prior to the update SR's cost 10-12gc + vial. After the update, SR's cost 10-12 gc + vial. Each SR requires a vial to make, and that cost is directly transferred to the buyer. There is NO DIFFERENCE IN MARGINAL PROFIT to the potioners from last week. Potioners do not make any more money from this change.

 

The only profit that potioners make is from their stockpiled vials. Potioners with 10k stockpiles actually have 100kgc in value in them now. whereas before it was only 30kgc. Potioners with 50k stockpiles now have 500k gc in vials, if they wait till the vial supply runs low enough for vial price to go up.

 

Seriously, everytime such a change occurs, people freak out. And I do mean freak out. They take it as personal affronts, damn Entropy and threaten to quit the game.

 

If they were to take all that energy and pretend as if the game had always been that way and now look for ways to get around it... they'd soon realize that these changes (though they SEEM earth shattering) are really fairly minor. They only seem earth shattering because they effect so many. But so many have been taking advantage of problems and have become dependent, almost like an addiction. They've learned NOT to work for it and NOT to earn it. Now they will have to work and earn. Welcome to life.

 

And this goes back to my first point. If people are going to freak out each and everytime, wouldn't it behoove Ent to actually ignore the freaking out? He said as much in his History of EL article. Well, he didn't ignore them. He took the freaking out personally, and made immediate changes that made things worse. Rather than post 11 minutes after an update asking for feedback, and then immediately making changes 4-5 days after an update, wouldn't a little bit of level-headedness be better? It seems you agree.

Edited July 15, 2006 by cordelia

[deo]

It doesn't matter for you anyway, because you are banned.

 

Fine...are you going to issue me a refund for my p2p race?