Bonus exp areas, no item made

[Nyxl]

The ideas of schools, training grounds or libraries actually giving experience in a way are most appealing to me. (Bookses, bookses everywhere, yes, my prrrrrecioussssss !)

 

What I don't get is that not having items in the end of training is supposed to be an economic stabilisator.

 

Why not make specific NPC "masters", just like Fortan or Christopher for Crafting ? I mention those two for a good reason : the reward for completing that quest of theirs is, among other things, Crafting experience ! I found that a great addition to the quests altogether.

 

So, why not have those "masters" directly teach you things about their skills for money ? That would save :

 

1°) the pain of designing "exotic areas" where use of one skill has not the standard result (notwithstanding the fact there's already the non-skill, non-summoning areas, etc.);

2°) the complex calculations one might indulge into to know "how much leather pants should I try to make in that school area before making some for cash" : you want experience, you pay, the equation is the clearest that can be.

 

Furthermore, you can imagine distinct levels for those masters. For example with Crafting (pursuing on that thread of thoughts) : Christopher would be like a level 20 Crafter and could train someone in Crafting up to level 20, then say something like "I can't teach you anymore, you know as much as I. Go find my Master, Fortan, to learn more in the ways of Crafting". Fortan, then, would be a level 30 Crafter, able to train you up to level 30 in Crafting.

 

You could have one NPC skilled in several skills at low level, another specialized at a high level in a specific skill, the combinations are numerous.

 

You could make the access to some very high level masters the outcome of some quests.

 

There are lots of things that can be done with regards of gaining skill experience without generating goods to sink the economy.

[ttlanhil]

there are problems with XP-for-cash though. should someone who spent a month carting lilacs be able to quickly become a master summoner? I don't think so

this also doesn't help the real problem as much, that of a flood of items. if you need cash to get the XP, then you need to make and sell stuff first to have the cash (either that or stuff like carting lilacs, even worse)

in fact, since the XP-for-cash is appealing, there may be even more push to try and sell your gear, more undercutting, etc

[Aislinn]

A fair number of you object to "quickly getting exp for $$". Where do you see "quickly" in the plan? Of course it should take time, at least as much as making the actual items would. The way this is a problem is if we go with entropy's suggestion of having both ways available. That is where the faster comes in. If it isn't optional, you don't have to offer double exp in the same amount of time because there isn't another alternative. You get exp OR you make items. Both are needed, and I really don't see too many players willing to forego one for the other.

 

Also, if there are less items in the first place to sell for the $$ to train for exp, their value will go up. That was the whole point. Of course people will still make items to use and sell, isn't that part of the plan? But there won't be as many of them so their value will go up.

[Entropy]

It is not going to be much faster, because you will still need to get the ingredients and stuff. Plus, there will be no storage or sellers near those areas, so in some ways it will be even slower than just doing it near the storage.

Obviously, this can be adjusted if too much exp is given.

[Aislinn]

I don't see why players would choose it then if it's an option, not mandetory. It sounds like the effort and time involved will outweigh the benefits. (Most people don't have big enough carry loads to make it worthwhile, the benefit of being able to sit at storage or a resource will outweigh the extra experience)

[Entropy]

It will be an option. Some people with high loads and/or guild mates that can carry stuff might like it, some might not like it.

Better than to force everyone to do it our way, no?

[Entropy]

Arnieman:

The armors and stuff requiring more steps WILL be implemented, this new training system has nothing to do with it.

 

As for your other idea, unfortunately it is not viable, players should not get there and decide wether or not they want experience or the item. This can be abused in so many ways.

[Derin]

This is a good idea, well worth to try out.

 

I agree with entropy, it should be an option, not a requirement. A little thing that will add some extra flavor to the game. Should the idea turn out bad (which I highly doubt), it can always be tweaked or replaced with something better.

[trollson]

As an option this idea is fine: I can see guild driven 'training parties' happening there.

 

However, I really don't see it addressing the economic issues: It will still be more efficent (time and effort wise) to level at storage, so items still created for the experience and not for demand.

 

The amount of muling requires P/C heavy characters; personally, I'd like to see encouragement for more diverse attribute profiles. Perhaps introducing transport aids, such as backpacks, hand carts, and eventually Packhorses/mules would help (Would love to see Dwarves pushing wheelbarrows of ore out of the mines!).

 

How else could a supply-demand equilibrium be introduced, if exp-XOR-item is not accceptable? Couple of incomplete ideas:

• Vary experience value for an item based on its market value? Would work well, but difficult to assess the market value - possibly base on number of items in circulation, but doubt whether it is that simple.
  
• Mass production counter per character? Each character has a item 'type' and 'counter' field added. When they produce something, if its an instance of the 'type', increment 'counter', else decrement 'counter'. If counter zero, assign the item as the 'type'. Experience for 'type' decreases as 'counter' increases (exponential decay), but success chance increases. Encourages variation in production.
  

Of course, there are a few items which are prefered for levelling. Maybe we should look at what these are, and how they affect the economy?

 

I should also add: It would be nice if there more 'heroic' tasks from which craftsmen could acquire experience, rather than relying on mass production of mundain items (although MMORPG do have more of a day-to-day aspect than traditional RPGs).

Edited January 16, 2006 by trollson

[duran]

i wonder, when was it stated that these training areas would not have storage NPCs? or maybe i just missed that part somewhere?

 

however, yes it would be interesting to have items that you can wear that increase your carrying capasity (like say a backpack in you back slot in place of a cloak or similar).

 

question is tho, what kind of effect would that have on the economy...

[Aislinn]

It will be an option. Some people with high loads and/or guild mates that can carry stuff might like it, some might not like it.

Better than to force everyone to do it our way, no?

Well choices are always nice, I do agree with you there. But if the goal is to help the economy and reduce extra items that are circulating, or not circulating as the case be, then having it optional won't help much, if at all, if it turns out that it's still time/effort/cost effective to still make the items.

As trollson pointed out, it also will encourage high p/c muling chars, and we have enough trouble with that as it is.

 

 

 

@duran:

It is not going to be much faster, because you will still need to get the ingredients and stuff. Plus, there will be no storage or sellers near those areas, so in some ways it will be even slower than just doing it near the storage.

Obviously, this can be adjusted if too much exp is given.

[Jezebelle]

As trollson pointed out, it also will encourage high p/c muling chars, and we have enough trouble with that as it is.

 

 

I can see why you look at it in a negative way, but why not see the positive side effects? This could stimulate guidlies/players to work together in a new, fun way

 

Jez

Edited January 16, 2006 by Jezebelle

[Aislinn]

Erm I'm all for it, I only would rather it not be optional because I don't see how players being given the choice will help the original goal, due to the reasons I explained.

No need for a cheerleader here!

[Jezebelle]

Erm I'm all for it, I only would rather it not be optional because I don't see how players being given the choice will help the original goal, due to the reasons I explained.

No need for a cheerleader here!

 

 

I think you misread me there; I was saying i can see how you look at it negative coz it could create more mulers, which we yhave trouble enough with, as you stated. I was saying it could have a positive sideeffect, because it could mean that guildies/players can help eachother carrying stuff, instead of the negative illegal mules

 

I sure didnt mean you are against the whole idea, sorry for the confusion, lol

 

Jez

[Entropy]

If it works, fine. If not, at least we can say we tried. It won't take much to implement.

[LadyWolf]

If it works, fine. If not, at least we can say we tried.

I think that sums it up..I'm game to try anything, But I have to agree with Aislinn about it should be mandatory, not optional.

[Suessie]

If it works, fine. If not, at least we can say we tried.

I think that sums it up..I'm game to try anything, But I have to agree with Aislinn about it should be mandatory, not optional.

Or maybe not, i would like to bring up my manu skill there for making my own higher armor by myself, without making tons of leather pants in normal way to get a better skill, because its easier in this areas.

And i think for all the money which goes around, why not some adventure maps holded by Mortos and his monster spawns divided in low, medium, high classes where you could go with a high priced ring or ticket. Maps without a storage or not able to manufacturing, only to get experience for a/d without PK. Like IP for example: there are a lot rabbits and beavers, but if you get higher there arent maps with such a lot animals/monsters only PK. I would pay for a ticket which bring me to a map where i am able to fight a lot more (like the invasation) than now (and when i am full i must leave or drop, because of the missing storage there - and must buy a new ticket). Maybe an NPC who sells the needed armor and thinks like this, more money left.

There should be an adventure map (very expensive i think) where we get the same circumstance like the 30 min. before the last rollback, where you cant lose you armor. This 30 min was very funny

Edited January 18, 2006 by Suessie

[TheComet]

really like this idea. Perhaps you could walk out with 1 of the item, just an idea.

[chaoogie]

...when you finish you walk out with 1 of the item..well then just make 1 get double xp then walk out and go back and make another 0.0

[Mr.Mind]

This is an excellent solution. I can't wait to take advantage of it.

[0ctane]

Well, I do not know if I will ever use this game feature, but we will have to see how it works out.

 

Here is a thought though...the chances of making enhanced/modable items is pretty low. Why not make a Alchemy/Manu/whatever school out in the middle of nowhere...I mean REALLY far from any storage...where there is a significantly higher chance of making rare items. Make it so you have to cross long magic damage areas followed by chims and fluffies (that don't resond to MM cloaks) followed by a bunch of teleporting or something. If you survive this arduous journey, then you can train at the special school and make cool stuff. Of course, you still have to survive the trip back.

[Drakos7]

make sure you cannot beam from 0ctane's special school. but you could always bring a rost and #suicide...

[DemonCowboy]

a simpler suggestion playability wise (not sure programming wise) that might help the economy would b to limit experence to manu levels - so ppl don't just make things that are easy to ge the stuff for in mass quantities to level. like right now after doing the cheap leather quest it's much simpler just to buy a whole bunch of leather and make leather gloves because it's the most efficeint to make and if u harvest sulphur or catctus u always need them neway and can always sell on the spot to ppl who aren't as prepared and to ppl who want to b prepared but don't have the cash on hand to do it that way - so if leather gloves stop getting experience at a certain lv higher lvl ppl won't make them unless they need to they'll only make higher lv items instead

 

just another suggestion that i think might help because i think entropys idea has flaws in it i don't think many ppl will use the higher experience option often because it simply won't b worth it because sure u get the exp but u have nothing to show for it and the other way the majority of the ppl will continue to use instead because even flooded good marketers can still make at least SOMETHING off of itfor their work - i think for entropys idea to work it would have to b like a quest and some sort of reward other than higher experience for it and about carrying issues it'd have to b something that could stop and start at any time

 

here's a pitch to work off of entropy's idea - have those areas but put a NPC there that gives different quests for different items of different skill levels like saying "the citizens of Irinveron are going through a shortage of (certain fur item) . so if u make (so many item to get to next lv w/ the bonus exp) it would b a great help (and given money or some sort of reward for completion) and for the carrying part i think that like a quest it can b gotten back to (like to get more materials) so the NPC should b able to take the stuff in installments or like the god quests keep the stuff in storage and get the bonus exp all at 1ce to make it doable - otherwise i don't think it would b worth the effort and i think many others will feel the same way so it will do nothing for the market

Edited February 8, 2006 by DemonCowboy

[fitboyjim]

maybe they could have it where you go to these special training areas and if by some chance you make a enriched escence or a mddable sword u get to keep it but everything else just dissappaears

[duran]

another option is that each creation gives you a bit of gold. not as much as the npc value of the item created, but still a nice sum. this way people get something in return for the creation while not flodding the market with items they want to sell...