God Please save PK

[DrtyDevil]

nah we had few 140s/150s attacking him in kf at once barely scratched him

[Nova]

The problem is pkers don't want to pk pkers - they only want to pk noobs.

 

Newhope was camping the hydro route this morning, but none of the bad add pkers went to fight him. When they actually have a chance of losing, they don't want to risk it.

 

pm me next time :> i will try

 

Well; again, Newhope+Dubro both use bombs, they can both easily kill anyone.

I wouldnt wanna go and poof 56k because he's blocking Hydro (something I never use :s)

 

 

 

Oh, and he does have ICD - I guess you could put a community patrol watch on the hydro route and call them into action when you need them.

 

The hydro part was the least important part of the original point.

[evilmangopie]

Radu's publicly said before that he doesn't want to improve PK, i could write an essay on it, but just accept that it is the way it is (horribly unbalanced etc.)

[Caliphear]

Yes groomsh & wizzy. I thought the wizzard hat should have some stats as well as the night visor. mage robes also should give a little more armor imo.

 

drty pk is very broken and i think you are underestimating the intelligence of el players. (not meaning the kindergarden mentality) Adding items or stats to existing items wont make ppl more confused imo.Most players have this game figured out to the point i even dont understand it.

 

as for novas idea- maybe (now i dont know anything about programming) in this area you can "duel" players around your same level in which the fight stops once you hit a certain hp? that way no one dies, nothing drops, just a safe place to learn basics. Maybe even have a channel specificly for older players to answer questions on pk to help newer players. Ofc older players meaning ones who will help not give wrong info.

 

EDIT:

 

@evilmangopie you did not get Radu's statement. He didnt say he didnt want to improve it. Here is what he said.

 

[radu @ 6]: until you show me that you CARE about PKing, I won't do jack sht about it

 

[radu @ 6]: and no, OMFGign is not caring

[radu @ 6]: you will have to actually PROVE me that you are willing to WORK towards it

[radu @ 6]: and do what I said

 

now to me thats saying if we come up wih legit idea's to increase players participating instead of being me me me and worry about how you benefit, he would consider it.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Caliphear

[_iNvoKeD]

The hydro part was the least important part of the original point.

 

 

Note the sarcasm; and second the point of mine is; I wouldnt waste a 56k rosto trying to get rid of newhope from Hydro route, 9/10 would die, unless they got bombs in quick enough...

 

the term "if you cant beat them, join them." comes to mind, but i'd rather not resort to that either.

[DrtyDevil]

i agree cali but im giving up the people who brought this topic up tbh are just scared of todays pk methods because they dont understand them ive been bombed (dropped alot of gc worth) avoided being bombed i think some stats would be great but dont try to go so far as to try to change pk but its w/e its not up to none of us anyways we have right to post our opinions and it is what ive dont pk is simple to me now b4 it use to be hard i mean hell maybe it should maybe it shouldnt its not for none of use to say ask the question to 100 people you will get just as many different answers i posted my opinion that i think trying to change pk is not a good idea maybe adding stats to gear would be good tho but if you think of removing cotu from mages it will become as useless as the top in pk (this is my opinion please state your own do not go by what i say)

[Aislinn]

i agree cali but im giving up the people who brought this topic up tbh are just scared of todays pk methods because they dont understand them

Ehhh you're saying wizzy doesn't pk, is scared of pk, and doesn't understand pk? What are you on?

[evilmangopie]

Lots of very good ideas have been suggested before, and people saying stupid things on this thread won't change anything. Let's list a few things that are wrong/inbalanced with PK:

 

-Bombs

-Ranging

-Mages, superawomse if no MI, useless otherwise

-Summoners, less overpowered version of engineering, can buy kills with acw

-Bronze sword

-FA on back

-High cost of PK

-Too small community with too many allies for each guild

-No punishment for stronger players picking on much weaker ones in KF, so no places for lower levels to pk

-Great swords do barely any damage against dragon armors

-Cost of death in drop areas Mage vs. Fighter

 

etc.

And Drty, you have no idea what you are talking about, please stop

Edited April 9, 2012 by evilmangopie

[DrtyDevil]

wasnt talking about wizzy more or less but tbh i havent seen wizzy in kf in a long time now....or some of the people who decided to post here....@evilmangopie im stating my side my opinion m8 just keep to youre own

[Wizzy]

wasnt talking about wizzy more or less but tbh i havent seen wizzy in kf in a long time now....or some of the people who decided to post here....@evilmangopie im stating my side my opinion m8 just keep to youre own

 

Not many see me in KF, and the past few months my EL time has been drasticly reduced, this doesnt mean I do not care about this game. I can barely think of one thing in my life that has been able to keep my attention for 6 or 7 years. And I personaly think if we can come up with some reasonable balances to pk and presented them as a community to Radu, he would take the ideas seriously. Saying PK sucks and is dead wont help. But if we worked together on a few good ideas, I am sure he would listen to us.

[Quesar]

@DrtyDevil - If you want people to read your posts, try using some punctuation and maybe even capitalize the first letter of each sentence. Your current run on posts make me not want to even read them.

[Caliphear]

Just because you might think an idea is stupid doesnt mean others do. Yes a lot of suggestions have been made and no, it hasnt changed. But nothing wrong with coming up with new ideas, revisiting old ideas,trying to fix or atleast better an aspect of the game. Statements like yours is why Radu said what he said, and why its not being fixed. Because ppl arent showing they care to actualy fix it. Instead every idea gets shot down, flamed, subject changed and the posts get burried being useless. ofc just my opinion.

 

and drty lol. now you agree with wizzy in what he is trying to do on this thread to begin with? And just because you dont see wizzy in pk doesnt mean he doesnt know what he is talking about nor that he is scared.

 

so lets continue the actual topic

Edited April 9, 2012 by Caliphear

[Nardo Lala]

PK will perhaps also become more popular if (more) official events will be held, for instance one official evening of events (each limited to certain levels) on a monthly basis.

[Elf_Ninja]

Pk... Hummm

 

I like that people are talking about it more then just A/D tweaking, here's my 2 cents:

 

1. Armor/weapons that are skill specific would be great. Perhaps we need to think outside the normal set up a bit to get them to work for example:

 

Wizard hat: gives magic bonus plus extra ether and slight hp but takes away from A/D lvl to do so like -10 or -15 a/d lvls and you don't receive a/d experience when it's on(as we learned from previous TS effect to be careful of that).

or

It could take away HP and replace it with ether and magic bonus

 

2. Summoning: I would love to summon while fighting, I would love to have a summon menu or side bar like you have for magic. perhaps to make this happen i would even say like to see cool-downs* applied to summons(not just stones). A side bar could work that same as magic if you click the icon and don't have the ing. you get a message. Then you could also include gear for summoners that reduce the cool-down time or have a chance of removing it like the ti cuisses of cool-down removal do for pots etc.

*Cool-downs could be removed when in summon school for lvling

 

3. Make PK worth something...: Many other mmo's i've played the pk system has had some benefit to players somewhere. For example something we could do in EL would be a weekly KF tally at the end of every week guild or person with best stats in the formula for owning KF get their guild name or personal name posted as you enter ie: This map is owned by PlayerX. PlayerX or GuildX then get some kind of bonus for that week discounts at NPC, % of gold made by an NPC stationed on the map, something. And it doesn't have to be KF it could be another pk map just as long as people are encouraged through the game itself to compete for glory and gold.

I realize that attempts at this have been made through pki and such but players have found ways to trick that and it is now discounted as a means of showing how glorious your battle history is. And suggestions have been made before about making some kind of pk mini game, which might work as well but items and armors and skills need to be fixed before something like that is introduced.

 

4. Bombs! perhaps for this we could have something like we do with arrows and point defense, an item that once you step on a bomb it will protect your or partially protect you and then disappear from your inv. for example:

 

*Elf_Ninjas ring of explosive negativity- when in inventory it will absorb a local explosion and then disappear into the ether causing whatever damage it could not absorb to harm the carrier. cost- 150gc?(as mines are somewhat expensive defense against them should cost more then PD) stackable

 

Dunno i have lots of ideas but will stop for now and see how this is flamed

[Aislinn]

-Bombs

-Ranging

-Mages, superawomse if no MI, useless otherwise

-Summoners, less overpowered version of engineering, can buy kills with acw

-Bronze sword

-FA on back

-High cost of PK

-Too small community with too many allies for each guild

-No punishment for stronger players picking on much weaker ones in KF, so no places for lower levels to pk

-Great swords do barely any damage against dragon armors

-Cost of death in drop areas Mage vs. Fighter

This list by evilmangopie seems to be a good place to start as it covers wizzy's original list and a few other important things. How about people post what the problem is and their (realistic) solution for each specific entry? Also I notice bronze sword is the only item specifically mentioned. Other specific items' problems and solutions would be good too, and any item type or perceived as missing completely.

If problems and solutions (and any missing issue gaps) are approached in an organized and logical fashion, it is easier to put together a proposal that stands a chance of being looked at.

[Raistlin]

Moved to more appropriate thread

Edited April 10, 2012 by Raistlin
moved post

[Wizzy]

-Bombs

-Ranging

-Mages, superawomse if no MI, useless otherwise

-Summoners, less overpowered version of engineering, can buy kills with acw

-Bronze sword

-FA on back

-High cost of PK

-Too small community with too many allies for each guild

-No punishment for stronger players picking on much weaker ones in KF, so no places for lower levels to pk

-Great swords do barely any damage against dragon armors

-Cost of death in drop areas Mage vs. Fighter

This list by evilmangopie seems to be a good place to start as it covers wizzy's original list and a few other important things. How about people post what the problem is and their solution for each specific entry? Also I notice bronze sword is the only item specifically mentioned. Other specific items' problems and solutions would be good too, and any item type perceived as missing completely.

 

Great idea

 

Lets start with RC bombs. I would like to purpose the soultion, remove them from game. It makes no sense for the EL world to have remote control bombs

 

Mages, MI is too much defense, harm is too powerfull without it.

 

Fire arrow on back makes NO sense at all, make arrows non-equipable when wielding a sword

 

I personally think starting with small changes would be the best way to go.

 

What do you think?

[_iNvoKeD]

TBH Wizzys last post ~IMO~ Would see a HUGE increase in PK. Alot of the 120-140s would come out the woodwork and not be afraid to attack a 150 because they aint getting hit for 70-120 damage with Bronze+FA.

 

As for harm I slightly have to disagree - Bronze Armor cuts a mages affect basically in half... but I am prejudice as I am a mage :<

[Caliphear]

very good idea raistlin. i like the idea of the individuals levels both being taken into consideration.

 

the FA + bronze definatly should be stopped. so not being able to wear the arrow with a sword will take care of a big problem.Radu has even mentioned in the past he doesnt like ppl using that as it was not intended to work.

 

Also let's keep the subject of the wizard hats and night visors getting some sort of stats. even if no complete specific class armors are accepted.

 

The rangers already have counter measures (pd and now blue dragon armor)and using nv/camo cape makes them too easily killed imo.

 

Summoning - i think the number of arctic chims should definatly be reduced and the ing adjusted.

 

and yes wizzy maybe if we can get small changes we can go from there. Definatly need a way to keep the player lvl's even to be able to attack. need some ideas on how to do that. How hard is it to program it so you can only attack a player within your level? Is it doable with little issues? And how many levels would be fair?

Edited April 9, 2012 by Caliphear

[evilmangopie]

Ok a list of possible changes:

 

-Reduce bronze sword damage, perhaps other stats too

-No benefit to having arrow on back, that's truly ridiculous

-Cooldown on mines

-Summoning: A few things can be done. I would suggest you tone down the big summons (ACW etc.), they're very overpowered. Instead, summoners get the role of cheap, but useful summons that have special attacks (that have a change to bypass MI proportional to summoning level/charm), more similair to the tank rabbit that is already implemented. Add restrictions on summon stones related to summon level. Add an easier summoning interface, not the mixing window. Additional effects could include special types of damage (heat,cold rad etc.), small life drains, etc.

-Mages: I'd suggest removing MI spell, buffing Mag Protection spell a LOT, and making harm/md much weaker, buffing warlock capes. Equipment for mages similair-ish to Wizzy's suggestion. More useful spells would be helpful too.

-Remove special weapons/armors (OsoMN etc.), forgot to mention in last post, these are really overpowered though.

-Remove cotu effect from mage robe skirt, probs remove BroD too

-Give steel/tit armors some sort of PK bonuses, offering more gear selection strategy

-Reduce armor bonuses from dragon armours, or offer more weapons like rad rapiers for other great swords i guess

-A no drop arena where you can only attack within a certain CL or a/d range below you

-Maybe slightly increase halberd's damage, make halberd the most powerful weapon in terms of damage, but you have to face the consequences of being two handed and having -acc and -def

 

There's a few of the basic ones

Edited April 9, 2012 by evilmangopie

[learg]

Maybe my few cents. I don't pk because of cost. To go to pk I have to spend over 1Mgc to gear up, and it can be easily broken. My question: How can newbie afford for this stuff?

How about making a NPC-sell rather cheap stuff (full gear ~40kgc) comparable with high end made gear? But working only against players and summons.

[busterblader]

i cant see how pk will ever change you just need to overcome what comes at you,and as for pk being dead lom! seem to allways be in battle what ever level our guildies are ,they just deal with it no drop or drop map

[_iNvoKeD]

Ok a list of possible changes:

 

-Reduce bronze sword damage, perhaps other stats too

-No benefit to having arrow on back, that's truly ridiculous

-Cooldown on mines

-Summoning: A few things can be done. I would suggest you tone down the big summons (ACW etc.), they're very overpowered. Instead, summoners get the role of cheap, but useful summons that have special attacks (that have a change to bypass MI proportional to summoning level/charm), more similair to the tank rabbit that is already implemented. Add restrictions on summon stones related to summon level. Add an easier summoning interface, not the mixing window. Additional effects could include special types of damage (heat,cold rad etc.), small life drains, etc.

-Mages: I'd suggest removing MI spell, buffing Mag Protection spell a LOT, and making harm/md much weaker, buffing warlock capes. Equipment for mages similair-ish to Wizzy's suggestion. More useful spells would be helpful too.

-Remove special weapons/armors (OsoMN etc.), forgot to mention in last post, these are really overpowered though.

-Remove cotu effect from mage robe skirt, probs remove BroD too

-Give steel/tit armors some sort of PK bonuses, offering more gear selection strategy

-Reduce armor bonuses from dragon armours, or offer more weapons like rad rapiers for other great swords i guess

-A no drop arena where you can only attack within a certain CL or a/d range below you

 

There's a few of the basic ones

 

Remember mate, removing weapons/armors like OSOMN is not overpowered. They're rare for a reason - if you remove these from the game then you're basically asking for Manu-ers to stop making shit for no profit still. Who makes OS, JS etc at the rate bindings are going for?

 

Agree with mage robe, but not brod, leaves only GSM in-game... As it is, I rarely see anyone using BoD, AoF, etc. So why remove the BroD?

 

Agree with greater choice of 'great swords', which to me seem like training swords either bronze or therm in pk or its gtfo. Radioactive OS? Please... LOL.

 

Not sure what to make of PK Bonus from Steel/Tit, how would that reflect PvE Aswell?

 

Dragon armors are fine the way they are personally (armor bonus wise), especially if you're introducing better/more Great Swords like Rad Rapier (and hopefully a bit cheaper than 160k for Rapier, which seems fairly easy to break)... Those great swords being introduced could counteract each type of drag for instance, then dragon armors (like others) need some kind of negativity to it. Like Icy gives -heat protection (from thermy), Red gives -cold protection etc etc.

 

 

CL/ a/d level arena is a great idea, i'd spend some time there to practice...

 

and as for Hally being too strong, still if Luci were to come into PK tomorrow with Hally with say 80+ damage on it, the fuck i'd have no chance

Edited April 9, 2012 by _iNvoKeD

[Caliphear]

Let's keep to ideas instead of "get used to it" "deal with it" etc etc. The whole point of this is to get more pk going, more players being involved, and to improve the game.

 

As for the cost- thats the market and a whole other ball of wax. One set of issues at a time.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Caliphear

[groomsh]

Remember mate, removing weapons/armors like OSOMN is not overpowered. They're rare for a reason - if you remove these from the game then you're basically asking for Manu-ers to stop making shit for no profit still. Who makes OS, JS etc at the rate bindings are going for?

Heh, do you know a manuaer who makes the swords just to get a special ? That's history for quite some time now.