Evanescence Perk and Def XP

[Dugur]

Answering to korrode:

 

I think one of the reasons Bronze Sword are overpowered is to "help the economy". I mean, Bronze Sword probably is a main way of gc out of the game.

 

My humble suggestion: remove Bronze Swords, lower monster drops. Less gc enter the economy and pk fights get longer. The non-pk fighters surely will complain, but oh well, nothing in life is perfect.

 

My humble reply (currently sugar ray retired from pking): We asked for monster drops (gc) to be raised for quite a long time, and please

don't start with suggestions to change it again. No reason to alter the PvE system in order to make 20% of the games population happy. If you want

to remove gold coin from the game, make dragon armor fragile "surely pkers will complain, but oh well, nothing in life is perfect"

 

Yeeees, just look at fluffy now. More gc dropped, but conveniently the titanium axe books were removed / made very rare so you end up same result but get placebo effect.

[nathanstenzel]

Yeeees, just look at fluffy now. More gc dropped, but conveniently the titanium axe books were removed / made very rare so you end up same result but get placebo effect.

The titanium axes are relics that don't have much use anymore anyways. They use enough serpent stones to make them cost more to make than a great sword and I do believe they do less damage. Let's see.....7 serpent stones, I believe. All of the axes will be just for looks unless we get to use them on some trees or actually choose them as a weak weapon against a critter.

 

Decreasing the usefulness of dragon armors is no solution for anything. It would only hurt things. It would not only get the fighters upset, but the people who make them as well, since they will have a harder time trying to sell them.

 

What would help things more is if people started considering how reasonable a pker's or fighter's request actually is. Consider if it is good for the game and the EL population in general or if a fighter is just being greedy.

[Entropy]

And i was asking for lower monster drops since before i got my posting privilegies removed in this forum, since the combat skills generate far more gc per hour then any other skill... About fragility of Dragon Armor, i am ok with it, no problem.

 

EDIT: And to not sound too much anti-fighter, i was asking also for more spawns, so people could actually fight monsters, instead of the really boring pvp training.

 

Well, tell that to Korrode, who is always complaining about the high cost of competitive PKing

[PaulB]

Yeeees, just look at fluffy now. More gc dropped, but conveniently the titanium axe books were removed / made very rare so you end up same result but get placebo effect.

The titanium axes are relics that don't have much use anymore anyways. They use enough serpent stones to make them cost more to make than a great sword and I do believe they do less damage. Let's see.....7 serpent stones, I believe. All of the axes will be just for looks unless we get to use them on some trees or actually choose them as a weak weapon against a critter.

 

Decreasing the usefulness of dragon armors is no solution for anything. It would only hurt things. It would not only get the fighters upset, but the people who make them as well, since they will have a harder time trying to sell them.

 

What would help things more is if people started considering how reasonable a pker's or fighter's request actually is. Consider if it is good for the game and the EL population in general or if a fighter is just being greedy.

 

Your not getting his point

 

The tit axe book sold to NPC for 1Kgc.

 

Get it now? ^^

[Entropy]

The fix should be on the test server now, but please do some testing, I didn't have time to test it extensively.

[dipi]

Well i did a lil test, but it was my first time on the test server and my char is like a newbie... so i took ICD and Evanescence

 

Im 45s a/d with augmented and col as the best armor.

 

the first testing was on pvp against a player higher 100s barehanded, i dodged 3/20 hits aproximated. The good news is that now i get the def exp for dodging.

 

after i went for some mobs, it lloks lke the higer attack power it has, the less chance of dodging you have... it worked pretty good on ogres but i almost didnt dodge on armed orc.

 

thats how far i went coz i dont have any supply, even no more diss rings or rosto.

[SenZon]

The fix should be on the test server now, but please do some testing, I didn't have time to test it extensively.

 

Just got home from hard days of work, ill do some testing tomorow with my 'alt' and main char on test server.

[bigkav]

Has Lorck PKed in the current system, has he PKed at all in the current system? has he tested the current combat system extensively like Korrode, Infamous, Me or any other "fighter". As far as I know, he hasn't seen the full extent at all.

[Lorck]

One more of "Lorck doesn't know anything" stuff... anyway, if you was careful to read my original proposal, i was trying to make pk LESS expensive and REDUCE the monster drops and make MORE spawns. PK was expensive at my time, its even more expensive now. PK is a way to get gc out of economy, so better PK, better economy.

[bigkav]

One more of "Lorck doesn't know anything" stuff... anyway, if you was careful to read my original proposal, i was trying to make pk LESS expensive and REDUCE the monster drops and make MORE spawns. PK was expensive at my time, its even more expensive now. PK is a way to get gc out of economy, so better PK, better economy.

Lol. We "pvp" the mob, because it's the best exp/ph. if people wanted to serp a mob for GC, and get crappy exp, they would. PK is meant to be about fun, not about what load of bullshit equipment you need to compete. (i.e shitloads of GCs in items).

This is complete and utter bs:

Now you tell me how much GC worth of gear they using, because of the way the combat system is slanted. And I'm telling you now, you get your ass handed to you without using this gear. So it is, an ESSENTIAL for PK. The current PK system is a joke, but then again only one man can take in so much.

 

edit: everyone in that SS is using dragon armors or bronze sword, except for attila(he is using mana drain cuisses, and uber defense greaves). Ozmondius has an OS in hand, but i'm 90% sure that it's an orc slayer of mana nullification. Zipher is using the jagged saber of cooling, and Talloth is using orc slayer of mana nullification.

 

PK is about who has the best items now, instead of levels. untill thats fixed, PK will always lack in EL.

Edited September 9, 2009 by Luigi

[Lorck]

Lol. We "pvp" the mob, because it's the best exp/ph. if people wanted to serp a mob for GC, and get crappy exp, they would.

So what exactly is the problem with reducing the drops? People fight mobs for exp right?? Btw, no, you can't have everything, you cant get uber gc AND uber drops, one thing or another.

EDIT:Oh, and frequently i pvp players. Thats because i don't want people complaining "omg spawn serpz0r" and can't find free spawn.

Now you tell me how much GC worth of gear they using, because of the way the combat system is slanted.

You will tell me that they got all that equip doing pots, or something?Because in your opinion they don't fight mobs for gc.

And I'm telling you now, you get your ass handed to you without using this gear. So it is, an ESSENTIAL for PK

Pk is expensive, nobody questions that.

The current PK system is a joke

But you seem to enjoy it anyways...

PK is about who has the best items now, instead of levels

Since the addition of giant stones is this way, nothing new. Edited September 9, 2009 by Lorck

[bigkav]

Omfg... Just lol. I can't believe you're even mildly serious. Get a clue, then come back.

Edited September 9, 2009 by Luigi

[korrode]

Sorry, Korrode, did you mean couldn't hit each other or couldn't do damage so you could Tell you hit each other?

I think i was pretty clear with what i said.

 

Nathan i'm really not trying to be an ass here, but you really should reconsider trying to input on PK balance discussion when you have absolutely no experience with competitive PK.

 

Maybe arrange some PK fights with people around your own a/d/oa (and i mean PK fights, not "pvp training", i.e. actually try as hard as u can to kill each other)... go see what i mean for yourself, try fighting with dragon armors and all the different swords.

 

I can't really be bothered actually responding to what you say because i'd have to explain PK in EL in general before i could actually answer.

 

BTW Korrode if you say that weapons has too low dmg, why ask to improve theyr dmg? maybe just make dragon sets less armor and mag resistance?

lol...

 

Before i ever suggested those increased damage great swords, i many times suggested lowering the armor bonus of dragon armors.

The game developer seemed uninterested, so i suggest alternative methods to achieve a similar result. (usually the alternatives will have some compromises, that's why they're the alternatives.)

 

I am not saying that the bronze sword does not decrease the length of fights, I just don't understand how things will be different than they are now once the perk works properly. Why would this perk make the bronze sword more useful?

I wasn't complaining about the perk working properly, i was complaining about the 5% guaranteed dodge chance you said that everyone (perks irrelevant) would get.

 

PK was expensive at my time, its even more expensive now.

PK is not just a little more expensive now, it's tens, maybe even hundreds of times more expensive than in your days.

 

Don't make suggestions for current EL based on your years old knowledge/impression.

Edited September 9, 2009 by Korrode

[SenZon]

To go along with what luigi said, in that same fight of that SS he has :

 

[00:18:31] Notorious got mana depleted!

[00:18:33] Notorious got mana depleted!

[00:18:46] [@PK central @ 6]: kgxjeff killed Notorious.

[00:18:46] You were killed by kgxjeff

[00:18:46] You lost 0.301458 PK points

[00:18:46] Notorious enters cadaver service.

[00:18:48] You have died and gone to the Underworld!

 

[15:31:16] Notorious got life drained!

[15:31:36] Notorious got mana drained!

[15:32:02] Notorious got cooldowned!

[15:32:07] [@PK central @ 6]: Ozmondius killed Notorious.

[15:32:07] You were killed by Ozmondius

[15:32:07] You lost 0.504431 PK points

[15:32:07] Angels have been sent to assist Notorious

[15:32:08] You have died and gone to the Underworld!

 

[15:39:07] Notorious got mana depleted!

[15:39:08] Notorious got life drained!

[15:39:34] [@PK central @ 6]: kgxjeff killed Notorious.

[15:39:34] You were killed by kgxjeff

[15:39:34] You lost 0.271915 PK points

[15:39:34] Notorious is on his way to the promised land.

[15:39:35] You have died and gone to the Underworld!

 

Now, im not saying i should be 'un-beatable' but i do find that is 'uber bullshit' to be killed by someone 10-20 a/d levels under then me (in ozmos case) just because of all of that kav listed.

 

I still try to compete in PK just with Ti and OS/halberd but unfortunetly (sp) it isnt possible now adays, one of many reasons i am trying to avoid PK atm, i will still PK but just when there inst any of that epic uber op'ed items in a player killing map.

[Lorck]

Just to clear some points, since i got flamed on channel 6 because my stance was not clear enough...

 

Pk is too expensive, the game needs badly more spawns, etc. But it would be too inbalanced if we get that without lowering monster drops.

[korrode]

But it would be too inbalanced if we get that without lowering monster drops.

lol how would you know?

once again: how many years old is the information your basing your statement on?

[Lorck]

But it would be too inbalanced if we get that without lowering monster drops.

lol how would you know?

once again: how many years old is the information your basing your statement on?

Omg... you know i have a char which if i put enough pickpoints on it i can fight yetis, right? And i did that on test server. Guess what? I was doing yetis with less than one restore and getting 100gc average on each one. On double spawn that would mean lots of gc, much more than any other skill can do in the game with the same amount of time!

[SenZon]

if some how PK went back to this:

 

 

would of been perfect imo, and i agree with korrode dont think gc drop decrease on monsters would be necesary (sp), fighters could PK with out spending thousands of K's in armors, get 'decent' Gc drops, pay for what crafters, manuers, engers etc ask cause they can actually make Gc and PK and maybe have some left over instead of PK for 1 hour and have to 'farm' yetis/chims/silver/iron for 6 hours to PK for that 1 hour of PK ^^

[Entropy]

I am not saying that the bronze sword does not decrease the length of fights, I just don't understand how things will be different than they are now once the perk works properly. Why would this perk make the bronze sword more useful?

I wasn't complaining about the perk working properly, i was complaining about the 5% guaranteed dodge chance you said that everyone (perks irrelevant) would get.

 

Ok, with the 5%.

How would it be different than it is now? The bronze is still the fastest way to kill someone, with the CURRENT system and with the 'new' system.

[korrode]

Exactly, so the bronze sword is even more-so a requirement of PK, and when it's not used PK is even more of a HE/SR battle.

Hence my original statement:

Yes and if ALL fights just keep getting longer (and longer), eventually all PvP fights in EL will be is who bought the most bronze swords and/or SRS+HE.

 

edit:

@SenZ's post:

ya exactly

PK like that, with therms n great swords n ti/steel sets, without bronze swords and dragon armors is fun, tactical and 'cheap enough'.

 

a no drops map that people can't enter if they have any gear over human:6 in their inv would be teh bomb

Edited September 9, 2009 by Korrode

[Entropy]

Exactly, so the bronze sword is even more-so a requirement of PK, and when it's not used PK is even more of a HE/SR battle.

Hence my original statement:

Yes and if ALL fights just keep getting longer (and longer), eventually all PvP fights in EL will be is who bought the most bronze swords and/or SRS+HE.

 

I am afraid I still don't understand it. If the fights will be longer (and not by much anyway), why would the bronze sword be more necessary? The critical failure applies to all the weapons equally. And BTW, not sure when you started playing the game, but until the cooldown was added (sometime in late 2005) the fights were much longer. And it seems that people liked it.

[Ozmondius]

FYI, I didn't use any orange spam weapons on you when you died, Senzon. Musta been someone else who was beating on you.

[korrode]

I am afraid I still don't understand it. If the fights will be longer (and not by much anyway), why would the bronze sword be more necessary?

Because lowering the health of opponents of similar strength in dragon armor will be even more lengthy.

 

 

The critical failure applies to all the weapons equally.

Yes and as it already stands most great swords are near useless, so they will be come more useless.

 

I see your point, you're saying that whatever increased uselessness is applied to the great swords will also be applied to the bronze sword. My point is that bronze sword is not at all useless, it's very over-powered, and although this change may make it slightly less over-powered, it doesn't take it anywhere near useless.

 

So the bronze will remain over-powered (just not quite as much) and the great swords will just be even more useless.

 

I don't know how i can explain it any better than that.

 

And BTW, not sure when you started playing the game, but until the cooldown was added (sometime in late 2005) the fights were much longer. And it seems that people liked it.

I can't really comment as i wasn't around for PK without cooldown, but you can't arbitrarily compare 1 feature from late 2005 EL. There's been an array of other stuff changed/added since then.

 

Back then the equipment and certain consumable costs of PK were way less, so the increased HE/SR used with no cooldown is much more than offset... and although the fights were long and he/sr battles, i bet they were WAY riskier than the kind of dragon-armor-induced long fights i'm talking about.

 

i.e. the fight would last long but it's not like you could be checking forums inbetween restores lol

[SenZon]

FYI, I didn't use any orange spam weapons on you when you died, Senzon. Musta been someone else who was beating on you.

 

Was JSoC ^^, no offence i dont think you could kill me, well without orange spam anyway :s

[SenZon]

Tested eva perk today on two diffrent chars, seems to be working fine