NMT breakable poll

[Llywar]

U know how much it takes for pr0 trainer to make 50a/d stats on new account? Max 7 days with little help of friends- free junk armors and HE's/SRS) or max 3 weeks w/o any help. Now u compare those 3 weeks to several months needed for 100a/d account and want to have even chances in combat

 

I think we have different ideas regarding typical play time. Maybe if somebody works 12 hour days for 7 days they might be able to hit 50/50, but if you only play a few hours per week (this is a game, right?), and do something other than just fight, you're not going to be at 50/50 anytime soon. I've been playing 7 months and am only at 40/40 a/d.

 

Im not sure about that, if expensive armors break too much ppl will simply train in augmented sets, why some1 should spend 100k+ for training armors that wont even last a day?

Atm nmt price is 300-400k, will be way less if made breakable( maybe 100-200k, hard to say, it depends from increasing/decreasing its drop rate

 

With nmt breakable it will be matter of luck who lvls faster, which is bad imho.

2 newbies for example: both worked hard for 2 weeks on blue lupine bush and gathered 200k for nmt cape and another 160k for col+steel set.

First newbie will get lucky and his nmt wont break for many months while training on ogre/cycs/fluffies.

Second newbie however is bad luck walking and he will break his nmt in first hour of training, its very demotivating imho, he might end quiting the game or becoming afk-harvester

 

Ok, I think we need to think about what motivates people to play games. If the goal of EL is to encourage people to spend their first 2 weeks on the blue lup bush to raise 360k I really question what the game has to offer. I mean - really - what exactly is entertaining about walking back and forth to a flower shop? I guess people have different motivations to play games.

 

And if the NMT becomes breakable it won't sell for 200k. It would probably sell for 50-100k tops I'd think. If those who find them price them higher nobody will bother to buy them anyway - unless they just have money to burn. If they are bought by an NPC for more they'll just all leave the game. Kind of like titanium bars - nobody bothers selling those on the market as nobody is willing to pay more than the NPC...

 

In any case, as long as people know whether an item is breakable or not everybody will adapt. It is just a game - I'll have fun regardless. But I think fundamentally it is better for the economy to make items depart.

 

It might also make sense to make the NMT manufacturable as an engineering item, or something like that - it could still be fairly expensive. But if it is breakable I'd probably not make it TOO expensive depending on the break rate - why protect a 60kCoL with a 100k cape that breaks just as easily?

[masterpiter]

I think we have different ideas regarding typical play time. Maybe if somebody works 12 hour days for 7 days they might be able to hit 50/50, but if you only play a few hours per week (this is a game, right?), and do something other than just fight, you're not going to be at 50/50 anytime soon. I've been playing 7 months and am only at 40/40 a/d.

I said "pr0 trainer", so some1 who knows the game and trains a lot, not typical player. Imagine u play another 7 years, u reach 100a/d and u r 5% stronger from 40a/d player? Nice perspective?

 

And if the NMT becomes breakable it won't sell for 200k. It would probably sell for 50-100k tops I'd think.

I prefer to pay 400 or even 900k for item but one time only, and not 50-100k every week.

 

But if it is breakable I'd probably not make it TOO expensive depending on the break rate - why protect a 60kCoL with a 100k cape that breaks just as easily?

U protect not only CoL but also all ur armors and sword, so ppl will pay 100k w/o a problem if drop rate of nmt is small(so not too many on market), coz its still better for them than armors breaking 4 times more.

 

mp

[Zamirah]

U protect not only CoL but also all ur armors and sword, so ppl will pay 100k w/o a problem if drop rate of nmt is small(so not too many on market), coz its still better for them than armors breaking 4 times more.

 

mp

It would sell for more than 100k.

COL, tit armor and cutlass is 230k.

So I would not sell a NMT for 100k but have 2 - 3 in my storage, after all will it protect items, much more worth.

So very few would be traded but people who are lucky will have them in storage.

[Tempest]

to muf and liquid.

with the arti cape dropped, people get 10 human nexus, make tonns of enriched stuff.

i know few persons who use arti capes, i get spammed with "efe" "ele again " or "eme"

this brings ubber money into the game, much more arti capes dropped, and yes mango ur point is completly right, sorry didnt think about that.

 

NMT makes pk worse? ffs piter is right, all the listed points kill PK.

i sometimes camp in KF few hours when im bored and just got a/d lvls and so.

what do i see there? falcons... fluffys... and 3 newbs who wanna get merc and dont even give pk points.

RoT should help, but didnt, thats a different topic so doesnt belong here.

 

NMT DID NOT destroy pk. it brings money into the game yeah.. but wtf arti cape does that way more.

and if ur not talking about to much money ingame, liquid as u needed ur nmt u would NEVER vote this, now that you got 70 a/d and an alcher/potter char u surely dont need it anymore, same for mufossa with his new char.

 

the Eles/emes/efes etc made with the arti cape bring much money into the game, would be nice to see logs from ent or so how many efes/eles etc were made with arti capes.

 

 

EDIT to liquid: liq, nmt makes ppl able to train on yetis better yeah, but for ppl under yetis nmt doesnt do much, as nmt was breakable i trained the whole time, many hours per day with fr cape. and i didnt break anything.

 

so for fluff/feros and down it doesnt make a difference. not many ppl train yeti compared to fluff/feros and so, and the PK isnt dead cause the top 40 or whatever train much, its dead cause barely NO one goes in for whatever reason, a reason thats not the NMT.

 

Offtopic:

about beeing pk dead, i can only talk about what i honestly think.

if i go to PK, i think about the following points.

the most people are afraid to die, cause of invisble people who summon tigers, victims get cooldowned, get attacked by a person like i.e toomass, they get hited for 70-80 and cant even flee + die.

ok i run through KF with magic imm, but still theres a risk and yes i got also caught once

so thats imo ONE of the points why people are scared to pk, they know they can die very fast at any time without having a chance to flee/PK others, and all those high lvls in KF... blabla etc

Edited July 22, 2007 by Tempest

[mufossa]

to muf and liquid.

with the arti cape dropped, people get 10 human nexus, make tonns of enriched stuff.

i know few persons who use arti capes, i get spammed with "efe" "ele again " or "eme"

this brings ubber money into the game, much more arti capes dropped, and yes mango ur point is completly right, sorry didnt think about that.

 

yes but temp you criticize me for a point I DIDNT MAKE........my point was that arti cloak requires 10 human which is a big sacrafice for most people) Nmt requires Nothing..... and that YOU shouldnt compare them , i dont care about the gc....

[Chosen]

to muf and liquid.

with the arti cape dropped, people get 10 human nexus, make tonns of enriched stuff.

i know few persons who use arti capes, i get spammed with "efe" "ele again " or "eme"

this brings ubber money into the game, much more arti capes dropped, and yes mango ur point is completly right, sorry didnt think about that.

Artificer Cape has nothing to do with what this Topic is about, it's just a useless point your making about it. And it brings ubber money into the game? WTF!? People training/killing Yeti brings the fucking GC into the game, not the Arti cape.

 

NMT makes pk worse? ffs piter is right, all the listed points kill PK.

i sometimes camp in KF few hours when im bored and just got a/d lvls and so.

what do i see there? falcons... fluffys... and 3 newbs who wanna get merc and dont even give pk points.

RoT should help, but didnt, thats a different topic so doesnt belong here.

NMT DID NOT destroy pk. it brings money into the game yeah.. but wtf arti cape does that way more.

and if ur not talking about to much money ingame, liquid as u needed ur nmt u would NEVER vote this, now that you got 70 a/d and an alcher/potter char u surely dont need it anymore, same for mufossa with his new char.

Yes, NMT as well as what mp said, all make PK worse, I was saying NMT is one of the causes. Not THE cause. I never 'needed' my NMT cape when I had one, it was just something nice to use, and 95% of the time I trained when people had NMT, I was using Armours which I didn't care about. And training monsters that gave nice exp, and didn't cost me alot to train on.

 

the Eles/emes/efes etc made with the arti cape bring much money into the game, would be nice to see logs from ent or so how many efes/eles etc were made with arti capes.

Enriched Essences don't bring money into the game.. It's the people training/killing Yeti+ to make uber fast GC/Drops.. Which is why I said reduce drops from, well Fluffys+ tbh.

 

EDIT to liquid: liq, nmt makes ppl able to train on yetis better yeah, but for ppl under yetis nmt doesnt do much, as nmt was breakable i trained the whole time, many hours per day with fr cape. and i didnt break anything.

 

so for fluff/feros and down it doesnt make a difference. not many ppl train yeti compared to fluff/feros and so, and the PK isnt dead cause the top 40 or whatever train much, its dead cause barely NO one goes in for whatever reason, a reason thats not the NMT.

When NMT was breakable I was PvP'ing in Steel Chains/Leathers.. Getting nice if not more exp than I woulda got using NMT on Fluffys.. It sucks that people have to base thewre whole leveling of a/d around one item. When in the past it wasn't that way.

 

- Chosen / LiquiD.

[vytukas]

The more I read such discussions, the more I think root of all evil is crown of life. And NMT allows you training with that wonder on. And the current game design makes it impossible or very impractical to train without CoL on any monster above desert chimeran (maybe forest one possible with major physique and enough coordination, and some sword). So players with high a/d must go back to fluffy/feros/dc, depending on their choice, or use CoL.

 

And while you may ask, what's wrong with it? The main problem the design may be implemented back in scale of a/d, and we see players in CoL training ogres, bears or even gargoyles. These monsters are very weak (low p/c), so given some knowledge of game mechanics you can level up unnaturally fast.

 

Making NMT breakable won't solve this, just it will mean that having certain items will let you level MUCH faster than your friends who dont own them. It's logical that allowing better equipment should ease the training, but IMHO not in such huge disproportion

[Llywar]

I said "pr0 trainer", so some1 who knows the game and trains a lot, not typical player. Imagine u play another 7 years, u reach 100a/d and u r 5% stronger from 40a/d player? Nice perspective?

 

I'd argue it should be more like 50% stronger. Right now though it is probably 5,000% stronger or more. I think that if you want to attract new players you can't start them off 7 years behind everyone else. Otherwise leveling becomes a goal for its own sake.

 

U protect not only CoL but also all ur armors and sword, so ppl will pay 100k w/o a problem if drop rate of nmt is small(so not too many on market), coz its still better for them than armors breaking 4 times more.

 

I don't think that this is accurate - but it depends on the relative break rates and costs of each item.

 

So, suppose all your armor elements cost 50k each, and you have 5 of them. Suppose the NMT costs 100k. Suppose all normally have a break rate of 1:10,000 hits. On the surface it might look better to use the 100k NMT to protect 250k worth of armor. However:

 

Without the NMT on each hit you have a 5:10000 chance of losing a 50k item. After 1000 hits you are 41% likely to lose at least one 50k item. That is 20gc/hit loss on average.

 

With the NMT on each hit you have a 5:40000 chance of losing a 50k item. After 1000 hits you are 12% likely to lose at least one 50k item. You are also 10% likely to lose the 100k NMT. That is 16gc/hit loss on average.

 

The difference isn't that large - and if you factor in the fact that degraded items have value it could be a net loss. If the NMT break rate is much higher or lower that obviously impacts the math quite a bit, and that is going to be the ultimate determiner of the value of the NMT...

[agis29]

More yetis spawns were added. Yetis became stronger. Desert chims were buffed to give more exp.

There is no reason for this thread to exist.

[Chosen]

More yetis spawns were added. Yetis became stronger. Desert chims were buffed to give more exp.

There is no reason for this thread to exist.

Yes there is, if you think there isn't, then you rely on your NMT too much.

[agis29]

More yetis spawns were added. Yetis became stronger. Desert chims were buffed to give more exp.

There is no reason for this thread to exist.

Yes there is, if you think there isn't, then you rely on your NMT too much.

 

No i am no mate.From 60-late 80's i wasnt using nmt while all those that want nmt breakable were training with col,nmt and full titanium.

I used nmt mostly from 90-100's.

Even if i was relying on nmt that is my problem anyway.

Let people level up fast or u ll see pk action after 2 years.

Even fluffies have more accurasy now.

The next thing that some people will ask are yeti and fluffies spawns inside their pk caves.

If some people quit the game or sold chars and when they came back things were different this is their problem. Let people enjoy the game stop crying about spawns and nmt and train.

[Chosen]

More yetis spawns were added. Yetis became stronger. Desert chims were buffed to give more exp.

There is no reason for this thread to exist.

Yes there is, if you think there isn't, then you rely on your NMT too much.

 

No i am no mate.From 60-late 80's i wasnt using nmt while all those that want nmt breakable were training with col,nmt and full titanium.

I used nmt mostly from 90-100's.

Even if i was relying on nmt that is my problem anyway.

Let people level up fast or u ll see pk action after 2 years.

Even fluffies have more accurasy now.

The next thing that some people will ask are yeti and fluffies spawns inside their pk caves.

If some people quit the game or sold chars and when they came back things were different this is their problem. Let people enjoy the game stop crying about spawns and nmt and train.

I sold/traded all my accounts cause I think that this is turning from something which is fun, into something people will spend ~12 hours a day playing to be the best, when being the best means nothing when theres nothing to prove it with, theres no PK.

 

I never used NMT from 60-100 a/d.. Only after I got a drop from Fluffy of a NMT, did I start using one. I just used Iron Set/bone. Increased my P/C so I take less hits, and trained.

 

After doing so, I got bored of what EL has became, and I wont be leveling/playing until I think it's back to how it used to be, which wont be anytime soon.

[Tempest]

so whats the main reason for changing nmt? to much money ingame?

some1 clear that up for me please

[agis29]

As long as a/d leveling exists people will train 12 hours per day. By making nmt breakable some players will stop training completely and quit the game as it happened when nmt was breakable.Some others reseted and took the perk and now they can train in spawns for ever with col and fr cape.

A player with nmt perk was training with cape of the unbreakable.When i asked him why he told me " cause i look cool".

Let all people from 50's-80's to level up fast or we all going to end up pking with alts in dp arena.

You dont see people in pk arenas anymore cause most top fighters quit-sold chars and someothers are reseted.

If all players from 50's-80's wont level up fast dont expect anything in pk maps.

Also with nmt breakable manuers and crafters will sell items every 2 years...

[mufossa]

 

Also with nmt breakable manuers and crafters will sell items every 2 years...

i think this can go either way, i wouldnt be so quick to offer this prediction..

[TirunCollimdus]

NMT not leaving the game means that eventually they will have no value. Everyone will have one at least. You can delay this by reducing drop rates but it will eventually happen. They will eventually get handed out to newbies to get them to join guilds.

 

The NMT is too powerful for the game because it removes too much risk from everything. Making them break and drop twice as much will solve both problems. Risk will be reintroduced and you will not wind up with so many in game that you might as well just take all of them out and reduce all of the break rates.

 

I have a NMT now because Icy took the perk and gave me her cloak. I still say they should be breakable even though I loving having it. It is awesomely uber getting to use one but it is better for the game in the long run if they are breakable. Hopefully making them breakable will make it so that newbies are not encouraged to spend their first few weeks in game harvesting lupines to get one.

 

PS Off topic: Yes I know that arti cloaks don't leave the game either but they require 10 human nexus which is a huge sacrifice so they should not be compared in any way with the NMT which requires 0 human nexus.

People who keep going on and on about how hard it is to get PPs at high OAs shouldn't be trying to compare these cloaks like there isn't a huge difference.

 

TirunCollimdus

CoGM of PATH

Perseverance And Tolerance Honored

[Tempest]

I know that arti cloaks don't leave the game either but they require 10 human nexus which is a huge sacrifice so they should not be compared in any way with the NMT which requires 0 human nexus.

People who keep going on and on about how hard it is to get PPs at high OAs shouldn't be trying to compare these cloaks like there isn't a huge difference.

and? for an alcher/potioner it isnt hard to get 10 pps on human nexus, they dont spend every single pp in coord to be able to train yetis. they get a basic p/c like maybe 40/60 which is very high for an alcher (most alchers/potioners/crafters etc i know have 32/52~ p/c). and yeti trainer have to spend every pp for their training, else they break to much stuff, are to weak in pk or whatever.

alchers have a very easy way to get the 10 human nexus.

and arti capes get dropped much, very much. soon when there are many more arti capes there will be the same problem again, to much money incoming the game with enriched essies.

[Mango]

I know that arti cloaks don't leave the game either but they require 10 human nexus which is a huge sacrifice so they should not be compared in any way with the NMT which requires 0 human nexus.

People who keep going on and on about how hard it is to get PPs at high OAs shouldn't be trying to compare these cloaks like there isn't a huge difference.

and? for an alcher/potioner it isnt hard to get 10 pps on human nexus, they dont spend every single pp in coord to be able to train yetis. they get a basic p/c like maybe 40/60 which is very high for an alcher (most alchers/potioners/crafters etc i know have 32/52~ p/c). and yeti trainer have to spend every pp for their training, else they break to much stuff, are to weak in pk or whatever.

alchers have a very easy way to get the 10 human nexus.

and arti capes get dropped much, very much. soon when there are many more arti capes there will be the same problem again, to much money incoming the game with enriched essies.

 

Exactly, if you dont agree there is a problem with arti cloak, like there is with NMT, youre ignorant.

 

Cause like you said, eventually everyone will have a arti cloak, like the case will be with NMT.

 

Maybe just lower all breakrates by 75%, higher all chance on special stuff by 100%, and get rid of the cloaks, and see what happends?

[Wizzy]

I think what people have to look at, and I do not have the statistics, however. Number of new people entering the game to number of new NMT's that are dropped and Number destroyed or taken out of game. Then it would be clear to see that NMT will hold its value. If there was zero influx of new players then NMT's at current drop rate would out number players eventuly. However if there are 20 New serious players a month, 2 NMTs Destroyed a month and 15 new dropped. Then the market will stay competivie.

 

Jumpy

[Fourier]

I voted no for this. I have killed over 6k fluffs at this point. It is not a huge

number, but it is a lot of rabbits. I have not seen an NMT drop, in fact I do

not even believe they are dropped by fluffy rabbits. I have killed over 1k

DCs at this point, and I have gotten 4 total drops (3x10 GHPs and 1 BP cape.)

 

These creatures dropping anything is so rare compared to an ogre, cyc, orc

etc. that even doubling the drop rate is insignificant. I do not make enough

cash from fluffy fighting to support fluffy fighting, I have to do other things

to get enough cash to fight, and I make mana pots and use cheap stuff (steel chain,

aug leather legs, leather boots, etc.) to fight in.

 

Making an eventual NMT breakable with double the current rarity of the drop

is just like a smack in the face, if I ever do actually get an NMT drop.

 

4

[Mango]

Id like to know the real droprate of NMT on fluffy too...

 

Killed close to 40k iirc (deleted counters lots), and no NMT...

 

And arti cloak droprate.. is it really the same as NMT?

[Zamirah]

I voted no for this. I have killed over 6k fluffs at this point. It is not a huge

number, but it is a lot of rabbits. I have not seen an NMT drop, in fact I do

not even believe they are dropped by fluffy rabbits. I have killed over 1k

DCs at this point, and I have gotten 4 total drops (3x10 GHPs and 1 BP cape.)

 

These creatures dropping anything is so rare compared to an ogre, cyc, orc

etc. that even doubling the drop rate is insignificant. I do not make enough

cash from fluffy fighting to support fluffy fighting, I have to do other things

to get enough cash to fight, and I make mana pots and use cheap stuff (steel chain,

aug leather legs, leather boots, etc.) to fight in.

 

Making an eventual NMT breakable with double the current rarity of the drop

is just like a smack in the face, if I ever do actually get an NMT drop.

 

4

Seem that you have bad luck.

I got 3 or 4 NMT from fluffys, don't remember.

And deleted my counter so I don't remember how many I killed, guess 20k.

But I remember I got 8 capes from 8.4k yetis.

1 camo, 4 artificer and 3 NMT.

But I use to have luck.

[Chosen]

These creatures dropping anything is so rare compared to an ogre, cyc, orc

Killed about 3k ogres in just about 2 weeks, and got one 'rare' drop.

[Tempest]

These creatures dropping anything is so rare compared to an ogre, cyc, orc

Killed about 3k ogres in just about 2 weeks, and got one 'rare' drop.

well ogre drops much more than fluff, stuff thats sell able to NPC and where you can make some money if your under the lvls for fluff etc.

they dont even drop that bad lol, you will have enough hes/srs and other stuff with those drops, and they drop more than fluff iirc, but yeh i didnt get much "rare" drops from ogre either.

[TirunCollimdus]

 

Exactly, if you dont agree there is a problem with arti cloak, like there is with NMT, youre ignorant.

 

Cause like you said, eventually everyone will have a arti cloak, like the case will be with NMT.

 

Maybe just lower all breakrates by 75%, higher all chance on special stuff by 100%, and get rid of the cloaks, and see what happends?

 

I did not say everyone will eventually have an arti cloak too. Fighters and all arounders cannot afford ten pick points for the cloak. Only the specialized players can afford the nexus to wear them. Most players are either straight fighters or all arounders so most definitely not everyone is going to have one. Everyone who needs one and can use one may get one and soon some people seem to think it will be soon. If everyone who needs one has one then the capes will obviously lose their value.

 

They may be headed for a problem of there own but that is something for a different thread and I fail to see why anyone brought it up on this thread. The fact is that NMT can be worn by anyone with no nexus required and they are massively useful for everyone of any level while the artificer cloak takes ten nexus and high levels to be of real use. There is also no perk alternative to artificer cloaks. They would never be worn in combat and so would never have a chance to break. How can you in any way compare these problems since obviously they share so few common solutions?

 

TirunCollimdus

CoGM of PATH

Perseverance And Tolerance Honored