PK points

[fyrrflyy]

Ok, I didn't read this post first so I made my suggestion to prevent abuse at the "OMG, the PK is dead" thread.

 

So I'm posting my suggestion here as well;

 

You create/already have an alt character named Player B. You bring Player B to a PK area and then take Player A, your main character, to that PK area and click on the attack icon and then click on Player B.

 

You get a message like this;

 

"You cannot attack someone that has the same IP with you."

 

And so your plan to attack an alt and get tons of PK points will fail.

That's illegal multi anyways

*Illegal multi-playing means using more than one character to help you gain benefits that using a single character would not. Illegal multi-playing includes but is not limited to: muling, deathbag sitting, pvp training, luring people to pk maps with one character while lying in wait with another. Also note that it is very difficult to be able to define each and every form of illegal multi-playing or cheating, so these matters will be reveiwed and punishments decided upon on a case by case basis.

[Mango]

I think the assymetric system would be better.

 

Since otherwise, new pk'ers are just too far behind on people who have been pking for longer. And imo, someone with many points, is good at Not dying. So killing him should give more points, than killing someone who dies 100 times, and killed only 1 player.

 

For example, people like Pookies and Toomass, will be up high in ladder. It might be a challenge to try surprise and kill them, if you would get more than 1 point. If not, I rather go kill noobs for that 1 point, than use stuff, and risk dying against better pkers.

[Shujral]

Ok, I didn't read this post first so I made my suggestion to prevent abuse at the "OMG, the PK is dead" thread.

 

So I'm posting my suggestion here as well;

 

You create/already have an alt character named Player B. You bring Player B to a PK area and then take Player A, your main character, to that PK area and click on the attack icon and then click on Player B.

 

You get a message like this;

 

"You cannot attack someone that has the same IP with you."

 

And so your plan to attack an alt and get tons of PK points will fail.

 

 

This is worthless anyway, please READ before you post. As Ent. said, you couldn't do this anyway because Player B will RUN OUT OF PK POINTS

 

Sorry if i sound pissed off, im really tired now:

 

-Shuj

[Happy_G]

player b wont run out of PK points, the person goes negative, the thing preventing this is needing att+def>=150 also if they see that someone killed the same person 50 times in one day thats just ridiculous and obviously cheating and the points for that player will be reset and then locked due to illegal multi of your alt helping your main

Edited June 26, 2007 by Happy_G

[jamincollins]

Ok, I didn't read this post first so I made my suggestion to prevent abuse at the "OMG, the PK is dead" thread.

 

So I'm posting my suggestion here as well;

 

You create/already have an alt character named Player B. You bring Player B to a PK area and then take Player A, your main character, to that PK area and click on the attack icon and then click on Player B.

 

You get a message like this;

 

"You cannot attack someone that has the same IP with you."

 

And so your plan to attack an alt and get tons of PK points will fail.

 

And if family members want to PK each other for whatever reason? Under your suggestion, they can't. Yes, my wife and I have on occasion fought each other. Perhaps there are siblings out there that would like to settle things in PK?

[trollson]

The following I was going to post to Entropy's Blog on this, as it was more concise, but could not for technical reasons:

 

Symmetric system is still open to abuse: While it's not easy to raise a character to the required levels, a group only needs on "fallguy" to benefit the whole group. The fallguy racks up a large negative tally, which has no other impact, while the rest gain points.

 

Assymetic system would prevent this, as the group would need a supply of fresh "fallguys", which becomes impractical.

 

In addition, you can relax the A/D requirement by including the participant's "combat rating" into the equation; so no PK points for beating up a newbie, even if he has earned PK points amongst his peers.

[Lorck]

Want to make a cheat-pr00f system?

 

When someone score a kill which qualifies to the point system, it appends to a file the name of the person who scored the kill and who died. And let representatives of guilds interested to search the logs and report if there is some suspect behavior. Of course, if the representatives of the guilds disclose that info (that may or may not be privative) he gets punished.

[darkguy]

Ok, so if at start everyone has 0 pk points then how will someone get pk points from the opponent? The opponent has 0 pk points, you have 0 pk points... How will you get pk points from a person that has 0 pk points? Can someone explain that to me?

[Happy_G]

you go negative

[vytukas]

<...>

4. There will be some manual abuse check as well, for example if there are suspicions that two friends pair together with the purpose of making one of them have more PK points, by 'sacrificing' themselves, the PK points of the 'winner' will be reseted.

<...>

I guess reading English is too hard for you?

 

Well might be the case, I'm not a native speaker

 

However, I still don't get it.

If I fight my noob friend for fun once (and kill him/her) lets say (and yes, he/she has -20 points anyway), I get +1 point, he/she goes further negative.

If we repeat that 100 times, it is a clear abuse of the system, fine. But what if once, or twice? or 4 times?

 

IMHO you need clear borders what is 'point system abuse', and what is not, because you will certainly receive comments like, "m0ds r hate me thats why they delete my pts"

 

Maybe we could put a negative cap, lets say a player can go max. -50 negative or -100, later he doesnt go further negative, and the ones who kill him don't get any points? Because there are players who go to KF naked and die 10 times in a row even they have medium stats (>70s)

 

Edit: this would also decrease the effect of non-PKers selling themselves for a kill lol ^

Edited June 26, 2007 by vytukas

[Jarld]

Ok, so if at start everyone has 0 pk points then how will someone get pk points from the opponent? The opponent has 0 pk points, you have 0 pk points... How will you get pk points from a person that has 0 pk points? Can someone explain that to me?

you go negative

 

That's funny because someone who doesn't PK (0 PK points) can be better ranked than someone who PK a lot but gets killed a lot (negative PK points)

[Marwen]

...

 

Assuming that you PvP with someone of an equivalent level with yours, sometimes you will die, sometimes they will die. So both's PK points will be unaffected (or little affected). I am sure people will not like PvPing with someone that kills them too often and causes them to lose too many points.

One alternative to make things fair is to let the other person kill you in return, to even out the points.

 

upss, I think I should stop PvPing with quimbly :-(

 

and I think ELO like system can be very good (smallest evil) for us.

[Lorck]

IMHO you need clear borders what is 'point system abuse', and what is not, because you will certainly receive comments like, "m0ds r hate me thats why they delete my pts"

We don't saw the implementation of the stuff (if it ever get implemented!) so it can have clear distinctions. Of course, to die to a friend is normal, sometimes you do a free fight or pvp with them. To die often is not. And since you or your friend are equally likely to die, it should balance itself. Now, if you see lots of friends dieing to each other, then its a problem.

Maybe we could put a negative cap, lets say a player can go max. -50 negative or -100, later he doesnt go further negative, and the ones who kill him don't get any points? Because there are players who go to KF naked and die 10 times in a row even they have medium stats (>70s)

That does not prevent cheat at all. Lets say i want to help a player and the cap is lets say, -100. I can go kill other folks and get my points to -50 and then go sacrifice myself 50 times.

----

And about assimetric thingie, i could die a lot using leathers and stuff and get a really negative handcap. Then go and pk the people i really hate, and make them lose lots of points. It can be _really_ easily exploited make the people on top or near the top lose a lot of points. I know, i would use it that way.

[Placid]

Want to make a cheat-pr00f system?

 

When someone score a kill which qualifies to the point system, it appends to a file the name of the person who scored the kill and who died. And let representatives of guilds interested to search the logs and report if there is some suspect behavior. Of course, if the representatives of the guilds disclose that info (that may or may not be privative) he gets punished.

You have to be joking. People checking a text file for something totally ingame related?! Talk about ruin the atmosphere!

 

The following I was going to post to Entropy's Blog on this, as it was more concise, but could not for technical reasons:

 

Symmetric system is still open to abuse: While it's not easy to raise a character to the required levels, a group only needs on "fallguy" to benefit the whole group. The fallguy racks up a large negative tally, which has no other impact, while the rest gain points.

 

Assymetic system would prevent this, as the group would need a supply of fresh "fallguys", which becomes impractical.

 

In addition, you can relax the A/D requirement by including the participant's "combat rating" into the equation; so no PK points for beating up a newbie, even if he has earned PK points amongst his peers.

Makes a lot of sense to me, except couldn't those with lower A/D just abuse the system as much as those could with higher A/D on the symmetrical system - Someone with higher A/D stays as the fall guy whilst the newbs hack away for ages? - or is that not possible?

 

I think it's important to understand that you'll never get a failsafe system, free from abuse. It might be easier to allow some abuses and leave it up to the community to deal with it?

[Lorck]

Want to make a cheat-pr00f system?

 

When someone score a kill which qualifies to the point system, it appends to a file the name of the person who scored the kill and who died. And let representatives of guilds interested to search the logs and report if there is some suspect behavior. Of course, if the representatives of the guilds disclose that info (that may or may not be privative) he gets punished.

You have to be joking. People checking a text file for something totally ingame related?! Talk about ruin the atmosphere!

Hmm, i don't understand... I was thinking about something similar to political elections which happens in Brasil (where i am from). The political parties send in some auditors to watch to irregularities and stuff. Some don't send, but of course, then they can't cry it was unfair. And yes, i think it should be the people who do pk to be the 'auditors', they know better who are friend of each other, etc, and know when something weird happens.

[Pyewacket]

@@3 Selling pk points! pay me 1kgc and I will die for j00.

 

Seriously though, I like the idea even though I am not eligible for it, nor will I be for some considerable time to come if the limit stays at A+D>=150

[darkguy]

@@3 Selling pk points! pay me 1kgc and I will die for j00.

 

lol! Good one pye

[trollson]

Makes a lot of sense to me, except couldn't those with lower A/D just abuse the system as much as those could with higher A/D on the symmetrical system - Someone with higher A/D stays as the fall guy whilst the newbs hack away for ages? - or is that not possible?

Hopefully this would be a limited exploit with diminishing returns.

1. As they hack away at the fallguy, their "PK points" increase, while the fallguys' decrease; so the gain each kill decreases.
   
2. With several characters using the same fallguy, he will gain negative PK value faster then each "trainer" gains postive PK (assuming this is still approximately a zero-sum game).
   
3. Since the fallguy spends more time fighting (and dying) he may gain A/D faster than the other characters (assuming this is all they are doing), which may partially offset his negative PK points when combat rating is used. This needs to be considered when formulating the system.
   

[Blodoks]

The summoning is a PK skill just as defense is. You don't score kills with your defense, but having a high defense didn't hurt anyone

 

The summoning is not even like the defense, because you can't summon if you are under attack:

 

edit: maybe it's like the attack and we don't know it

Edited June 26, 2007 by Blodoks

[PhantomEmpress]

If summoning is a defensive skill,then what is magic? It has elements of both attack and defence.

If you make a kill,surely attack,defence and magic levels come into the equation,as well as the weapon and armour worn by the player.As I see it all skills should be allowed to be used and count towards a kill,what about engineering,are we going to be allowed to use mines in the future?Are these going to be attack or defence?And will they count towards a kill point,if it was the mine that caused the fatal blow?

[Entropy]

I don't think many people level 75 a/d would be willing to sacrifice their points for their friends. As to how many fights 'sold' is abuse, that depends on many factors. In theory, even one is too much, but in practice, it's hard to prove.

 

But as trollson pointed out, if we will have 'fallguys', they will be easy to detect, and if we see any evidence of whoring themselves, they can get banned, and their opponents punished too.

 

If summoning is a defensive skill,then what is magic? It has elements of both attack and defence.

If you make a kill,surely attack,defence and magic levels come into the equation,as well as the weapon and armour worn by the player.As I see it all skills should be allowed to be used and count towards a kill,what about engineering,are we going to be allowed to use mines in the future?Are these going to be attack or defence?And will they count towards a kill point,if it was the mine that caused the fatal blow?

 

Who said that summoning is a defensive skill?

 

The summoning is not even like the defense, because you can't summon if you are under attack:

 

edit: maybe it's like the attack and we don't know it

 

It is like defense in the sense that you do not [usually] kill with it, it just helps. It's also an auxiliary skill, just like magic. And it is a skill like manufacturing too, because you can produce items that you sell or use in combat.

 

And because you can't summon while under attack, this is why I don't want to make it count for PK counter purposes.

[Guest Catherin]

It is like defense in the sense that you do not [usually] kill with it, it just helps. It's also an auxiliary skill, just like magic. And it is a skill like manufacturing too, because you can produce items that you sell or use in combat.

 

And because you can't summon while under attack, this is why I don't want to make it count for PK counter purposes.

 

Mmm I don't quite understand your point of view...

I think of summ like a weapon, just like magic with harm spell. Am i wrong? I'm talking about magic and harm spell because i read before that if the final attack is made with an harm spell and the enemy dies then it will count as a point. Then i don't see why it should be different for the final attack made by a summoned monster.

 

I'm neither a mage, a pker nor a summoner so i'm not interested in first person, but well you asked opinion and i'd like to understand your thoughts on what it will be. (One can't know today what he will be tomorrow for sure...)

Edited June 26, 2007 by Catherin

[Lorck]

Attack is pr0 defensive skill, if you kill someone fast, s/he(it) doesn't hit you much.

[Placid]

Hmm, i don't understand... I was thinking about something similar to political elections which happens in Brasil (where i am from). The political parties send in some auditors to watch to irregularities and stuff. Some don't send, but of course, then they can't cry it was unfair. And yes, i think it should be the people who do pk to be the 'auditors', they know better who are friend of each other, etc, and know when something weird happens.

I meant it's just a little too clinical that's all. Players viewing a text file for something related in-game? It just isn't very game-like.

 

Makes a lot of sense to me, except couldn't those with lower A/D just abuse the system as much as those could with higher A/D on the symmetrical system - Someone with higher A/D stays as the fall guy whilst the newbs hack away for ages? - or is that not possible?

Hopefully this would be a limited exploit with diminishing returns.

1. As they hack away at the fallguy, their "PK points" increase, while the fallguys' decrease; so the gain each kill decreases.
   
2. With several characters using the same fallguy, he will gain negative PK value faster then each "trainer" gains postive PK (assuming this is still approximately a zero-sum game).
   
3. Since the fallguy spends more time fighting (and dying) he may gain A/D faster than the other characters (assuming this is all they are doing), which may partially offset his negative PK points when combat rating is used. This needs to be considered when formulating the system.
   

You have me convinced

[Pyewacket]

It is like defense in the sense that you do not [usually] kill with it, it just helps. It's also an auxiliary skill, just like magic. And it is a skill like manufacturing too, because you can produce items that you sell or use in combat.

 

And because you can't summon while under attack, this is why I don't want to make it count for PK counter purposes.

 

Mmm I don't quite understand your point of view...

I think of summ like a weapon, just like magic with harm spell. Am i wrong? I'm talking about magic and harm spell because i read before that if the final attack is made with an harm spell and the enemy dies then it will count as a point. Then i don't see why it should be different for the final attack made by a summoned monster.

 

I'm neither a mage, a pker nor a summoner so i'm not interested in first person, but well you asked opinion and i'd like to understand your thoughts on what it will be. (One can't know today what he will be tomorrow for sure...)

 

Summoned tigers dont pk people. People pk people.