Total war between guilds

[Shiva]

you say by choice.... but that is incorrect. It is by the people in the guild who are able to chooses choice!!

people will suffer because there will be guild leaders who will want to start wars with not everyone in the guild agreeing, and so will course interguild conflict, then maybe split guilds or people will get rejected from guilds.

 

By doing this in reailty will probably result in there being less and less mixed skilled guilds, as all the pkers will want wars and non-pkers won't.

 

But I guess if the majority want this then so be it... it shouldn't effect me

 

I don't believe anyone threw you down and nailed that tag onto you.. it's a "choice" you made.

[Kill]

I reckon a must is for all deaths outside of pk from warring guilds should not drop dbs, this would stop a lot of controversy (not all) for non fighters that are in warring guilds...

Lol, if you dont get any experience or a death bag, whats the point of even fighting outside of pk?

[HeLLRaiZeR]

People writing about how it will make guilds fall apart, it is the guild leaders choice to make another guild an enemy. And really, I doubt for example IRON will make =HC= or Ca$h enemy, only double enemy thing would be between equally strong guilds. So why are you complaining so much, use some logic.

 

Edit: The night attack only idea is GREAT. Night on EL is 3.30 to 0.30 if I'm correct?

Edited November 5, 2006 by HeLLRaiZeR

[Rockfall]

well the whole point of this is to start wars...

whats the point in war???

I never realised there was no experience in fighting outside of pk, proberly should've read a bit more haha

 

anyway if theres no experience in outside pk fighting, then it makes it even worse for non-pkers in a guild thats warring (maybe without them knowing) and so losing valuable things, or just having to leave a guild they were happy in...

 

EDIT: yeah night attacks do make it better.

I'm betting some guild leaders may get trigger happy with this and provoke wars etc

Edited November 5, 2006 by Rockfall

[HeLLRaiZeR]

well the whole point of this is to start wars...

whats the point in war???

I never realised there was no experience in fighting outside of pk, proberly should've read a bit more haha

 

anyway if theres no experience in outside pk fighting, then it makes it even worse for non-pkers in a guild thats warring (maybe without them knowing) and so losing valuable things, or just having to leave a guild they were happy in...

 

It's up to the guildmaster to declare war. Again, friendly guilds would likely never declare war on a pker guild.

[foncEmerlin]

ok I read as closely as I could ent on non pk maps would no drops such as person gets killed does not lose his stoof be helpful same reason as the no exp that way noone would just be attacking people to get their things.

 

or maybee a murderer penelty such as when someone just starts killing the hell out of everyone after so many in a short period of time (10 people in like three mins) his stuf is forfit meaning if he dies or is killed then all his equeped items or heck all his items have a huge chance of dropping.

 

just some ideas to help balance things I do like the idea.

 

and ofcourse until it is implemented and tweeked we won't know for sure how to improve it.

 

I mean you know me and my motto its a game

 

[Knuckles]

If you don't drop bags or get exp this whole thing is pointless. Your not going to kill someone and waste he/sr to get no drop or exp..

 

Imho this will make C2 more populated.

[Entropy]

ok I read as closely as I could ent on non pk maps would no drops such as person gets killed does not lose his stoof be helpful same reason as the no exp that way noone would just be attacking people to get their things.

 

That's a dumb idea.

[sundulana]

Wow what an interesting idea being brought up. i read all of entropy's posts and a few of the viewer's posts before i voted. seemed like i didnt need to read them to vote. i really liked the idea due to the fact that both guild have to confirm the total war command; however, i wont be using the command as the poll stated because i am not a guildmaster and dont plan to be one. i should have voted that i am not a fighter since i dont do serious pking, usually only those that i can afford to drop everything. i consider myself more of a treasure hunter since i prefer fighting monsters instead of pvping.

Dispite that, i think that it would be a good idea as long as the war has to be confirmed by both guild. i can imagine a group of people from the same alliance walking to check every storage for an enemy to kill... heheh i'd be having goosebumps watching the marching. jus like a group of mafia, or like the 9 ringwraiths.

concisely, i think that people might be interpreting the poll to vote whether they support or disapprove the idea. of course please correct me if i made the wrong assumption that only guildmasters can use the command.

[Shiva]

 

or maybee a murderer penelty such as when someone just starts killing the hell out of everyone after so many in a short period of time (10 people in like three mins) his stuf is forfit meaning if he dies or is killed then all his equeped items or heck all his items have a huge chance of dropping.

 

 

The only people he can kill the hell out of are the people that willingly agreed to a war... unless he is just on a pk map and people are running around him, then they know they can die since it is afterall, pk. so why penalize someone that is holding up his or her end of the bargain?

 

If you had read more carefully you would understand that this doesn't make everyone pkable to everyone else. It is an option from one guild to another, and both guilds have to tag each other as enemies in order to become pkable to each other outside actual pk areas.

If, however, that's how the end result will be, it is at least the main idea as of now.

 

EDIT: duh

Edited November 5, 2006 by SineVe

[trotter]

I love this idea . Will be fun for the rly hardcore pkers. Only thing i can think of is maybe make underworld and ip safe places so ppl cant camp beam and keep pking enemys that come out weakened.

[foncEmerlin]

ok so I did missread some of the post thanks for pointing that out.

 

So just setting some guild to red doesn't allow you to attack them ouside of the pk maps.

 

for that too happen they must also set your guild as enemy too.

 

now if that is correct then no need for any penelty would be needed because the only wide spread killing would be done in the pk area.

 

that makes sense.

 

and btw my idea is so dumb that wow conquer city of heros and villians all use it as well as many others and are doing well

 

but thanks for sharing

 

they do however have full pk servers in these games not like what your describing.

Edited November 5, 2006 by foncEmerlin

[mufossa]

Yes, the no exp on non PK maps is a good idea, otherwise people would abuse it to just PVP their friends.

However, you will be able to attack anyone anywhere, no safe zones.

i love this idea but one thought..when we first log on if atked we have a cooldown [automatic] and we dont get game loaded right away so someone can atk us b4 we even see..mabye you should make it NOT possible to be atked for first 20 seconds you log on .. like in pk maps when u first enter..And also will this be multi-comabt?

Edited November 5, 2006 by mufossa

[Jezebelle]

Jez,

 

I noticed ur a/d is not zero which means u must have shed blood somewhere or something in ur el career. I see animals killed in every map i go to as well as ppl from the animals.

 

 

 

I am not a hypocrit, yes, I raised my fighting stats by attacking creatures. I got over the tears in my eyes when i killed a bunny..but I try to live by the rules of nature tho, and only kill animals for their supplies, e.g. meat and fur. I will never leave a bag or trash behind anywhere, even pick up after others.

For training my stats, I use gobs, or other fantasylike creatures.

Dont you see? they are not real..and the people here on this World ARE real..how can I fight or see someone get hurt who i just passed by..perhaps greeted, and shared cookies with?

 

There is a difference..

 

Another concern is soemthing I brought up allready in anoither thread. Newcomers..but even those who are around a bit longer, are sometimes VERY eager to join a guild..ANY guild..and they dont ask, or not get told, who they are in war with...or why..At this point..its bad enough....but when this..'feature of horor' is implented, it may have dramatic effect.

 

It can EVEN be so..that the evil guilds let newcomers join just to watch them die..can you imagine that?

 

Dont make me out to be the vegetarian of EL..the Savior of this World..Im not..Im real and have many flaws, and yes..I do kill animals..and btw, I was so excited to see that Panda..that I clicked it by mistake..

I just wanted to make clear Im NOT gonna enjoy rl people being slaughtered in front of my eyes.. (yes..rl ppl..they have names, and they talk, therefor they are real enough to me to care!)

 

Jez

[Ornitorrinco]

Jez,

 

I noticed ur a/d is not zero which means u must have shed blood somewhere or something in ur el career. I see animals killed in every map i go to as well as ppl from the animals.

 

 

 

I am not a hypocrit, yes, I raised my fighting stats by attacking creatures. I got over the tears in my eyes when i killed a bunny..but I try to live by the rules of nature tho, and only kill animals for their supplies, e.g. meat and fur. I will never leave a bag or trash behind anywhere, even pick up after others.

For training my stats, I use gobs, or other fantasylike creatures.

Dont you see? they are not real..and the people here on this World ARE real..how can I fight or see someone get hurt who i just passed by..perhaps greeted, and shared cookies with?

 

There is a difference..

 

Another concern is soemthing I brought up allready in anoither thread. Newcomers..but even those who are around a bit longer, are sometimes VERY eager to join a guild..ANY guild..and they dont ask, or not get told, who they are in war with...or why..At this point..its bad enough....but when this..'feature of horor' is implented, it may have dramatic effect.

 

It can EVEN be so..that the evil guilds let newcomers join just to watch them die..can you imagine that?

 

Dont make me out to be the vegetarian of EL..the Savior of this World..Im not..Im real and have many flaws, and yes..I do kill animals..and btw, I was so excited to see that Panda..that I clicked it by mistake..

I just wanted to make clear Im NOT gonna enjoy rl people being slaughtered in front of my eyes.. (yes..rl ppl..they have names, and they talk, therefor they are real enough to me to care!)

 

Jez

 

Cut the nonsense. Nobody is being slaughtered. People have fun fighting. If both guilds have to agree on war status, that's because they want to fight each other period. Let other people have fun and close your eyes if you don't like it.

[Happy_G]

Basicaly i like this idea, however i thing that it would be better, if guild in war, were able to kill each other just during some period of day, eg night.

 

This could give some time to players to prepare for battle.

 

Wow, that is one very good idea.

I think I will implement it.

 

excelent, i love it

 

 

I like the idea but am disappointed about the no exp. on non-pk maps. It would be nice to train pvp without uninvited guests. hint hint.

 

I never liked the idea of PvP. I find it to be borderline exploiting the game mechanics, but since so many people enjoy it, I tollerate it.

However, I am not going to make it even easier than it is.

 

definately not

 

 

Jez,

 

I noticed ur a/d is not zero which means u must have shed blood somewhere or something in ur el career. I see animals killed in every map i go to as well as ppl from the animals.

 

 

 

I am not a hypocrit, ... for they are real enough to me to care!)

 

Jez

 

i never leave a bag behind either, i use everything from what i kill, consider jezebelle (and I if u wish) to be the native americans of EL, the native americans used everything from any creature they killed.

 

also, i dont PK either, i tried it and didnt like it at all, for alot of the same reasons jezebelle stated, i feel bad for ppl i kill, even if its just in self defence....meaning they attacked me first

[Rusikus]

This is strange idea

I voted NO!

[Derin]

..... they are not real..and the people here on this World ARE real..how can I fight or see someone get hurt who i just passed by..perhaps greeted, and shared cookies with?

Roleplaying: We are suffering from the curse of Mortos which, in effect, will prevent us from dying. So the fighting will serve to fight the just (endless) cause of your guild.

English: The characters in this world are NOT real, only the players playing those characters, and there is no real dying in this game. So you do not see anything get hurt except for some people's egos.

 

 

Another concern is soemthing I brought up allready in anoither thread. Newcomers..but even those who are around a bit longer, are sometimes VERY eager to join a guild..ANY guild..and they dont ask, or not get told, who they are in war with...or why..At this point..its bad enough....but when this..'feature of horor' is implented, it may have dramatic effect.

 

It can EVEN be so..that the evil guilds let newcomers join just to watch them die..can you imagine that?

Perhaps newcomers should learn how to be not so eager to join any guild out there.

[Jezebelle]

 

Perhaps newcomers should learn how to be not so eager to join any guild out there.

 

 

perhaps GUILDS should be more inetrested in the quality and not so much the quantity of their guilds as well..works both ways, Derin..

 

A newcoimer..is called a newcomer..for a reason..they have no idea what to expect, it is our duty and our responsibility to teach and protect them from harm as much as we can, like we do with our children, our youth, irl.

 

We have rules for language and behaviour at beam..to not scare off newcomers..so..I think we have to warn them about these things as well.

 

Jez

[Ghaele]

Im not a pk'er but i love fighting, i think this would add an interesting twist to the game. Although i am currently guildless it would certainly make me think alot longer and harder about who i would share my allegiance with when choosing a new guild to join. I voted yes.

[Derin]

perhaps GUILDS should be more inetrested in the quality and not so much the quantity of their guilds as well..works both ways, Derin..

 

A newcoimer..is called a newcomer..for a reason..they have no idea what to expect, it is our duty and our responsibility to teach and protect them from harm as much as we can, like we do with our children, our youth, irl.

 

We have rules for language and behaviour at beam..to not scare off newcomers..so..I think we have to warn them about these things as well.

 

Jez

 

Yes, guilds should be more concerned with whom they accept, but ultimately it is up to the player, newcomer or not to decided to join a guild.

The guilds are totally player driven, and you can leave a guild you do not feel happy with. So we do not need the same rules as for foul language etc.

 

----------------------

 

And a question in general to all who say things like "some guilds are set up like dictatorships" etc., what makes you think that you cannot leave a guild you do not like or enjoy?

This feature will not affect the guild structure, unless you want to. If a guild wants to keep its members then it better act for the best of those members, right?

Edited November 5, 2006 by Derin

[Suessie]

I voted "sure".

This is one step more to make this game interessting, especially a PRO for guilds.

 

One question:

What about the bots, which are members of an enemy guild?

Edited November 5, 2006 by Suessie

[RallosZek]

I think if you summarize and filter out the people who need a course in reading before posting you come up with the following:

• No exp outside pk maps to prevent pvp abuse
  
• Total war only at night which would take care of needing ceasefires
  
• Minimum time for a war state to force leaders to think it through and to prevent abuse when being declared upon by declaring/undeclaring when a member sees someone from opposing guild afk somewhere.
  
• IP/Underworld/Idaloran graveyard warfree zone to keep wars interesting and prevent clogging of spawn points
  

Cons from people that actually read and understand the implications are mostly based on assumptions that it will divide guilds and I personally consider that a feature. I've played war-based games and it adds a dimension to being guild/kingdom leader. It also strongly enhances cooperation. Some other concernes deal with the inability to differentiate between real and virtual world and the only thing el can do about that is add a link to Dr. Phil's website.

 

What I think still needs to be worked out (rather then rehash the above with even more arguments) is:

• A forced time to end a war. If the war can be re-engaged with one command then this would prevent members being caught in a war longer then planned because their leader(s) have RL/Internet issues and can't log on.
  
• A field in #guild_info stating war status so a recruit knows what s/he gets him/herself into when typing #join_guild.
  
• Maybe....a scoring system so that one has some indication on who's winning
  
• Prevent multiple declarations. When a guild is at war with another all other enemy declarations are 'set to hostile' so that they can't be multi-declared upon. A war imo should be one on one because the game isn't big enough to have multi-guild wars. It would result in stand-offs because guild A would like to war guild B but not including all it's allies.
  

[edit]grammar/speling

Edited November 5, 2006 by RallosZek

[trollson]

Thanks to RallosZek for posting the summary; I can skip over the recap section of this post then

 

Overall an interesting idea. Having slept on the subject now, there are a few tweaks I'd like to see if possible:

 

Supporting Allies:

I think this would make the most difference to how wars are conducts...

If an ally is being attacked by a non-ally, you should be able to join the combat on their side.

Guilds ANT and BEE are at war. An ANT is fighting a BEE, when a CROW comes by. CROW is allied to BEE, so the CROW can can attack the ANT -- so long as he does so while ANT and BEE are still fighting.

 

BEE dies, but the combat between ANT and CROW continues. But ANT disengages; CROW cannot attack ANT again since they are not at war.

This means that when choosing to declare war, you need to consider more than just the guilds respective PK-size, but also who their allies are. The allies do not join the whole war, but can take part in individual combats.

 

This can produce interesting chain effects.

While ANT and CROW where still fighting, a DOG, ally of ANT, comes along and sees the fight. They join by attacking CROW just before ANT disengages. Now, DOG and CROW are left fighting while the original combatants are long gone. Then ELK and FISH come by...

Of course, you can never attack an ally or fellow guild member, even if they end up fighting another of your allies.

 

This may seem complicated, but it comes down to a relatively simple check on who you are attempting to attack:

1. If target is an ally or guild-mate, then No.
   
   
2. else if at war with target's guild, then Yes.
   
   
3. else if target is currently attacking
   [1]
   an ally or guild-mate, then Yes.
   
   

This also allows a miliary-wing guild to have a supporting civilian guild.

 

[1] It does not matter who is attacking the target, only who the target is attacking.

Reparation Stake:

When declaring war, a guild has the option to post a reparation stake. If the war starts, then this prize goes to the eventual victor.

 

The stake can be seen as an enticement to the other guild to take on the challenge. After all, who is going to accept a declaration of war from the largest PK guild?

 

The victor in a war is the last guild to declare peace. Some handling of inactive or diminished guilds? Members leaving a guild is a sign of a guild losing the fight.

Sanctuary:

I think this is necessary...

 

A compliement to the PK areas; areas defined to be sanctuary, where no combat is allowed regardless. Areas such as temples would be prime examples.

 

Weaker guild members running to sanctuary as night falls...

 

Sanctuarys cannot be defined on guild maps. They must be public places and areas.

 

Possible technical issues depending on how special areas are handled by the server?

There are a few more issues which need to be clarified, which have been posted already.

Edited November 5, 2006 by trollson

[tuXico]

(as i didnt read all 9 pages, i hope i wont express an idea allready given but i had no time and i am smegged off by some stupid advices we can see everyday on those forums)

 

Anyway, i love both ideas but i think there may be a problem.

If i am on a pk run with a friend and see an enemy, i kill him. he looses rost but i saw he had a great armor... i can drop my rost type #suicide so if i loose items my friend can get them and now i can follow my enemy to kill him and get his stuff (since he wont have rost anymore)

So what i do think is that we need hell to be non-pk and have a storage so that people can get rost and tele rings. (tele rings cause you dont want a guy to make you loose 5 rost in 10 minutes since he would know where you go outa hell)

(Of course, this storage should be at hell's exit)

 

but since i really love those ideas :> let's implement them and find a cure to problems which could appear