An idea for more excitment to the game!

[The_Piper]

After thinking this a bit more - this even MORE plays to fighters - this could easily be abused for AFK fighters. (hey, as long as I don't fight something that can kill me, I can now leave the keyboard and go fix dinner! I'll have a meal AND another level!)

 

Oh, you can do (and test) this right now.

 

Just create a newbie char and put it somewhere on the whitestone map at night and find out after how many minutes/hours/days the first garg will find it. And there are at least 5 near VC.

 

Piper

[Arnieman]

After thinking this a bit more - this even MORE plays to fighters - this could easily be abused for AFK fighters. (hey, as long as I don't fight something that can kill me, I can now leave the keyboard and go fix dinner! I'll have a meal AND another level!)

 

Oh, you can do (and test) this right now.

 

Just create a newbie char and put it somewhere on the whitestone map at night and find out after how many minutes/hours/days the first garg will find it. And there are at least 5 near VC.

 

Piper

Or, for a better test, sit a char at def lvl 50 and about 20/30 p/c (or 30/40, whichever you think guarantees more victories), in the VotD Temple with full armor and a fast regen cape and see how quickly they get to def 51. It's rather quick - and I thought the def level cut-off was originally introduced for this reason.

[The_Piper]

Or, for a better test, sit a char at def lvl 50 and about 20/30 p/c (or 30/40, whichever you think guarantees more victories), in the VotD Temple with full armor and a fast regen cape and see how quickly they get to def 51. It's rather quick - and I thought the def level cut-off was originally introduced for this reason.

 

Agreed in a small map like a temple its possible. But this idea is about outside, on more or less huge maps. So the chance even to find one of those creatures is not very high imo.

 

Like, how often did you see Bob, the Portland gob?

 

And concerning newbies, we have it already, that its dangerous to leave IP. There can always be a welcome garg at Lakeside docks at night.

 

Piper

[MoJo]

I like the idea of random spawns of bandits outside castles, like invasions but only humans. It would make more use of the guards, players can help fight them off aswell. I wouldn't mind seeing that in the game

[Arnieman]

Like, how often did you see Bob, the Portland gob?

 

And concerning newbies, we have it already, that its dangerous to leave IP. There can always be a welcome garg at Lakeside docks at night.

 

Piper

Fairly often - if I stood by the East gate of Portland for a day, and killed Bob each time I saw him, I'd bet I have an average of 20-30 kills an hour. Now, if the aggressive gob follows the same areas Bob goes to, I'd get those with little/no effort.

 

Yes, we already have that for newbies - and for every monster - that they will attack you UPTO a certain level. I don't like the idea that some monsters will start ignoring that and MM.

 

I still it'll be great for fighters, and quite possibly an eviction notice to nonfighters.

[Shouja]

Another way to test this idea out is to have one of the devs (say, Learner, for example) make a bot that has invasion abilities, and a list of spawns. Then let it run for 24 hours, creating animals and monsters in a cycle all around Seridia. (Probably only one or two monsters per spawn point though, not the usual big bunch).

 

So something like:

Invade 1 Large garg outside VC,

Invade 2 wolves in VoTD,

Invade 2 Cyclops in SKF,

...

and so on, and so forth, all throughout the maps. It's a quick hack, but it should simulate the real conditions fairly well, and give the players an idea of what it would be like to play under those conditions. You could just declare a "monster test day" or something.

 

~Shouja~

[Aislinn]

Of course you still have mm(which I really hate the fact that there's a perk for that but oh well ).

Yes, we already have that for newbies - and for every monster - that they will attack you UPTO a certain level. I don't like the idea that some monsters will start ignoring that and MM.

Where do you get the idea these will ignore the defense levels and MM?

[Kendai]

You know... I guess I might be one of the few n00bs who did NOT enjoy running around dangerous maps in order to get whatever precious materials I needed with the large amount of gc needed, in particular books. I'm not a fighter, I'm an alchemist, and I throughly enjoyed it when I discovered that I was now immune to goblins. MM cape has saved my life more than once, going into Naralik and getting the emeralds I needed for magic essences, or mages as I call them.

 

To tell the truth, I'm not sure what to think of this new idea... it'd make things a lot more complicated to figure out, and I know even as a n00b (and yes, I did read the encyclopedia ), I still had troubles trying to find my way around the game (simple as it may seem now that I've gotten the hang of it).

 

Imagine if a newbie is trying to do the tutorial quest and trying to click on all the bars: there wouldn't be anyone guarding him or her since he or she doesn't know anyone in-game yet. More than likely, he or she wouldn't know about these aggressive monsters. And will a newbie figure out how to hire guards, much less be able to pay them? There are nice people in EL that could help them, but most of the time (especially when I experimented with newbie chars I created- don't think anyone remembers Davy_Crockett, do they? ), they just simply aren't there at IP, busy doing other things or it's late at night for most of EL players.

 

Though this idea would be great for more experienced players, newbies quite frankly have enough to deal with. My MM cape was literally my lifesaver when I got it (for free!) from a kind newbie helper (thanks SoAd7777 ). My suggestion therefore would be to implement this in areas that newbies shouldn't have to be going into anyway. In other words, don't implement this suggestion in IP, the outside areas of Whitestone (meaning it's okay for say, the diamond mine or Vermor Castle), Desert Pines, and perhaps (very large perhaps) any maps that contain booksellers. I still remember when I was a newbie clearly, and even now I'm still trying to fully figure out how to play (even if I can't play anymore, thanks to my video card), and I believe we should spare newbies this kind of "wrath." ^_^

[LadyWolf]

Ok, this game advertises as having no class system, being able to be whatever you want to be. Which I take to mean, if I want to be a player that works completely by myself for myself as an alchemist, I can do that. Or if I want to be a very sociable summoner I can be. Or if I want to be a strong fighter so be it.

 

Making this change is going to force people to have to either

 

a.) depend on others to escort them and protect them (which won't always work, cause that person could just accompany them right to the monster and then help themselves to a deathbag.

 

b.) force people to become somewhat of a fighter. Thus totally deminishing our "be whatever you want to be" image.

 

I really think things are hard enough for newbs as it is, without adding the strain of this to it. Not to mention those already established players that only alch, or make potions.

 

However, I do agree with doing away with the mm perk, it does make things way to easy. We should have to only depend on the cape for protection.

 

IMO making a change like this is only going to cause alot of people to leave that aren't combat oriented. Yes we need some changes to improve things, but this is not one I agree with.

Edited November 21, 2005 by LadyWolf

[ttlanhil]

I want more complexity, opportunity for challenge

 

Ttlanhil got any other ideas? New non fight skills or something? See I'm not necessarily for fighting be the major part in the game, but every way you turn it seems to lead to that. I do not know how to bring other skills to the forefront..they all revolve around fighting.

only what I put over here so far, but I'll keep at it

even then, racial abilities will probably have a fair bit to do with fighting, gardening is about the same level as harvesting, base point for manu which leads to fighting, and scholarly skills add variety to magic and research, both of which can lead to fighting.

the performing arts can be non-fighting (well, theoretically acrobatics skills could help in fighting but lets not go there), but that makes it a social skill. usefull, but some people won't see the point

the idea of players learning to build houses (as the counter example, we can't really do that) would become a new end-point skill, but it'd be hard to make this possible and to control(although if players had a house they could decorate, all the stuff used in decoration could drain a large amount of various nifty-looking items from circulation)

 

the problem is, if you need to buy materials, then you need to sell (or use yourself) the product you make. that means it needs a use, either something players will consume, or to get money from NPCs. considering the current cash problems, skills that get money from NPCs aren't great, that just adds more cash. and if you can't make a profit out of it, people won't do it

I guess the goal, then, is to find a new end-point for skills. something that can consume goods, be interesting, provide enough interest/reward to justify the goods loss to players, and not be fighting-based

(another base skill, like, say, food production(growing grain, grinding to flour, baking bread, catching & cooking fish, etc etc) alone, without a new end-point, just becomes a starting point in the fighting system)

the problem is... if you add another key goal to the game system... what sort of effect will that have? that's a big fundamental change

 

Maybe a different approach may work better though, let the skills be somewhat fighting-oriented, but add more social depth in other areas. like the ideas about becoming a citizen of a city, getting to vote in direct democracy(won't work to have it a show of hands at a single meeting, but you can put the issue on a noticeboard and give players 5 game-days to cast vote), building on an in-game social structure (as opposed to having a player-only social structure like we currently have). would people get involved in politics and citizenry and all even if it didn't pay? you bet. not all, but it'd add a lot of depth(at its most basic level, players can be voting on issues like the player reps were bringing up). the requirement though, is follow-through on this, which means you might need to have a map-maker or two who adjusts cities to match changes the players vote on. expand the town walls? plough and plant another row of crops? it's on-going work, but I wouldn't imagine it'd be a lot of effort, and the players then are having a real, direct, and lasting effect on the world itself

 

all the nattering-out-loud aside... I'll continue to think about it ^_^

[Brom]

I did not have time to read everyone's posts. But here is My stance: It cannot hurt to try.

It would add a new element in the game I would enjoy, dispite the fact I am not really a fighter. I like it, It cannot hurt to try.

 

Side note: This system would be the essense of awesome if we get that new combat system.

[trollson]

A couple of thoughs on limiting Monster Magnetism from someone who has benefited from the perk:

• Effects nullified if you engage in combat -- if you are being aggressive, then the monsters will notice you! Good for genuine pacifists, but still permits exploitation by bag jumpers. Perk is disabled for the combat/map/time...
  
• Red rage monsters -- if a monster survives a fight, then there could be a chance it goes 'red' (as in invading monsters). These already igore MM (as I found out ), so not good for monster magnetists lurking around waiting for death bags.
  

On travel: Use the wagons as pay-per-ride transports, 'teleport' to between cities/towns/safe harbours. Take the bus

 

(sorry if these have been mentioned above, I have skimmed through the thread, but its nearly midnight and time to...zzzzz)

[Roja]

On travel: Use the wagons as pay-per-ride transports, 'teleport' to between cities/towns/safe harbours. Take the bus

 

That's a good idea! The wagons can be pretty cheap too. Or in fact, instead of wagons to make it more believeable, just have paid for teleportals. No NPC needed. You step in it, and if you don't have the cash you don't go anywhere. (there'd be a sign telling you how much it is and what to do, these teleportals would look diff. than the "Free" ones too)

 

 

Another thing for newbies:

When you exit a safe area (town/city/village), you'd get a message "You have exited the safe area, beware of monsters!"

Edited November 22, 2005 by Roja

[Evalin]

I wouldn't mind seeing this implemented, so long as the monster magnatism perk is thrown out. I got the mm perk long ago, thinking "hey, i'll never have to worry about a wild monster... good deal". now that's changed to "well, so long as i'm not around the arctic chimmer, i've got nothing to worry about", and now it's going to turn to "so long as monsters aren't invading as well". Don't get me wrong... I love the idea, but can we get a refund of our pick points and just throw out the mm perk :lol:

[Arnieman]

Where do you get the idea these will ignore the defense levels and MM?

First - If this is NOT the case, how's it different from what we have already?

 

Second - (Edited in)

I was thinking how many people have said, "I had so much fun running through a dangerous monster map without monster magnetism" or "it was so fun when we had to run away from the goblin in portland". And yeah, it was so much fun because there was a higher level of excitement! It made the game more a game.

Assuming from the first comment (sure, assumption may not be the best case, but what's even the point of brining it up if my assumptions are wrong) - the aggressive monster will ignore MM.

Assuming from the second comment - the aggressive monster will ignore "no attack" defense levels.

 

I'd like to pose a question here: On the flipside, maybe no one's listened to the many who said "I was so glad when I got my MM perk/cape. It was no fun running through a dangerous map" or "it was no fun back when I had to run from the goblin in Portland". What about these people?

Edited November 22, 2005 by Arnieman

[Roja]

b.) force people to become somewhat of a fighter. Thus totally deminishing our "be whatever you want to be" image.

 

Picture medieval times in history(why even today in some areas!)...and you wanted to go travel to a different town....there was always a fair chance you'd be attacked by bandits! Does this mean you can't be whatever you want to be?

You have a few choises:

 

1. Take a risk

2. Take a bodyguard

3. Learn to fight

 

This idea is much more realistic for one thing, not that a game has to be realistic-i'm not basing it on that.

 

And what do you guys think that i'm going to put orcs in WS? Far from it. The strongest aggressive monster for a map like WS that I had in mind would be along the levels of a deer. All monsters per maps will be leveled out and balanced: Newb maps, Med. lvl player maps, high lvl player maps....

 

 

Also, I'm against all but invasions and a few rare monsters(like the arctic chim), ignoring MM. It should be all or nothing imo. Once you have a cape or whatever you have that saftey. What I am against is the perk, as it's too powerful on it's own imo, the cape is better because you do have a chance of loosing it plus it is earned for the monster part.

[LadyWolf]

And what do you guys think that i'm going to put orcs in WS? Far from it. The strongest aggressive monster for a map like WS that I had in mind would be along the levels of a deer. All monsters per maps will be leveled out and balanced: Newb maps, Med. lvl player maps, high lvl player maps....

 

Hmm..Now with this explanation laid on the table, things seem a bit different. I for one frequent 3 maps mainly : Portland, Votd, and WS. (sometimes tars and nord) Those are considered what, a mix of low and med level maps? So what deer level maybe goblin level monsters on these maps? I guess it can't hurt to try, maybe on a trial basis. Maybe implement it on the test server, select a few people that are for it and against it here, copy their characters over and let them test it at their current levels? Then take their opinions and decide from there. I for one would willingly volunteer as one of those that still leans towards the no side (mind you I have been swayed a bit by your last explanation)

 

 

Also, I'm against all but invasions and a few rare monsters(like the arctic chim), ignoring MM. It should be all or nothing imo. Once you have a cape or whatever you have that saftey.

 

Agreed. If you spend the money for the cloak then you should get you monies worth.

 

What I am against is the perk, as it's too powerful on it's own imo, the cape is better because you do have a chance of loosing it plus it is earned for the monster part.

 

This I do strongly agree with. By doing away with the perk it will put some value back into the MM cloak. Until just recently there haad been a lack in demand for them because almost everyone was taking the perk.

 

But, how will you take the perk away? Will those that have it get their pickpoints back? (I use a cloak myself so not concerned for myself). I am just curious because that is a lot of pp's to just have "poof" if there is not some kind of compensation.

 

**edit** screwed up the quoting, but I'm running on a secure network at dell and it hates the quote feature

Edited November 22, 2005 by LadyWolf

[Roja]

Of course if we get rid of the perk then I would support giving those pick points back to the players, but that is something that the programmers would have to decide if it's possible.

[Brom]

.there was always a fair chance you'd be attacked by bandits!

How is that comming along? Muahaha! I like it. Lets give it a try! I would love to see Imps trying to attack me in WS.

[Fumble]

Hello All,

 

I figured I would add my 2 cents, if this has not been added. I read most of the thread but not all.

 

If this is implemented, I think it should provide equal chance of killing all players for the most part. The roving animal should be "mirror" of the player’s skill level based off the unarmed char stat. So, if you are harvesting or walking it would require a player carry some he and a sword, but not too much to reduce the carrying capacity. (which is realistic, that most people cannot go into monster filled lands with some protection) El has build in map barriers that probably wouldn't really stop and mm gob from arriving in grahm's village.

 

I personally don't like the idea of new players having to buy or use dis or tele rings, and hiring gaurds for protection. That is money better served on books and better armor. I personally have never used a tele ring and only started using dis rings recently (and I’m OA of 59), that money adds up quick for a new player.

 

Following onto the "mirror monster" the percent of survivability should decrease has your strength rises, so mister Don Pedro sit next to me in harvesting blue quartz in NC can get jumped by the force of a chim and his buddy fluffy. Then if he dies (probably not) the monster mutates into a force of a large garg for me. Since the higher lvl players can carry more extra stuff, without overwhelming penalty as a percentage of carrying capacity. This will then give the play the option of carrying more extra stuff or a dis and tele ring combo.

 

Now to head off the response, well it is unrealistic to have a monster/animal change strength in rl. Yes, I'm aware of this fact. I just think that an implemented feature should at least affect people equally. If I know a higher lvl play is facing the same issue and not just benefiting from more death bags and crafting gc. It seems more reasonable.

 

I also don’t like the idea of having more restriction on new players traveling to maps like (dp,votd,wsc,pl). The random gargs of ws and the gob of pl is enough for a new play. I have personally died at there hands numerous times and have scene many other players take the same fate. The island of IP is too small of a safe haven and you cannot really start doing anything until you without leave.

 

Having the moster lvl be tied to the harvesting lvl don't make sense to me. Because once again the risk is not spread equally among the players sitting in the tit mines. Because, I have havested myself to lvl 44 doesn't mean I can fight and Orc. I may be able to out harvest them, but that will not save my ore.

 

I know this type of implementation would probably require much more coding, but at least the higher lvl players can have as much fun as peter the noob when autowalking across ws map.

 

 

Fumble

[Arnieman]

Ok, nothing stronger than a deer on WS... the maps I spend most of my time on are TG, VotD, WS, NC, PL, and DP - and somewhat on MM and Naralik. I almost never visit SKF or GP, and even more seldom in KF, TD, or Tirnym. Assuming that from my most visited the most I could see might be a wolf, gob, or even gargoyle or puma, why do I care?

 

I care because of the chance of running into something when I'm writing in SKF or GP - which, I have had times where I will be writing, and spending much time with my MM cape on, and just sitting. Most of my writings in these areas have been for the game (at least, my intent). As I said, I'd hate to give this up over an aggressive fluffy.

[Roja]

who said there'd be aggressive fluffies? Please stick to the topic... MM not working was never a part of it.

[Arnieman]

who said there'd be aggressive fluffies? Please stick to the topic... MM not working was never a part of it.

I used aggressive fluffy as an example - just trying to show a point.

 

And sorry for the derail again, but if it doesn't ignore MM, why even are we discussing the idea?

[Dunian]

Well....

I didn't have the time\patience to read the whole thread, but from what I read in the first post, I like the idea alot!

 

One question though: By aggressive monsters do you mean monsters you normally wouldn't see on that map?

 

Anyways, I agree with Brom, it can't hurt to try it

 

Edit: Read more and fixed my question a little.

Edited November 24, 2005 by Dunian

[Aislinn]

Well....

I didn't have the time\patience to read the whole thread, but from what I read in the first post, I like the idea alot!

 

One question though: By aggressive monsters do you mean the invasion type (mm and def lvls don't work), or just monsters you normally wouldn't see on that map?

 

Anyways, I agree with Brom, it can't hurt to try it

Erm...you might want to try at least reading the posts on the same page that you post