Recycle day stone

[RipTide]

Since the chances of getting a recycle day is being lessened with every new special day we get, How about selling recycle day stones in the shop. Radu can control how many are sold, 2 or 3 a month, then out of stock until next month.

 

Thank you for your support

[Alphabet]

This can go both ways.. can increase prices on items more.. and.. can decrease the prices items are sold at. Stuff will be cheaper i think. Although a better idea, i'd think, would be to to have day of recyle, but you must pay a npc like 25k to use the day.. Thatway can take gold out of the economy. So say 25 people used it (Im sure more) That's 625k right there. Instead of one person just buyin a stone and using it.

[Zilding]

Agreed that they need to happen a little more often...pretty much ALL special days that don't have stone are far too rare, and as Aq said, every new one that gets introduced makes them even rarer. if you miss one you're waiting for, you have to wait 6-8 months. On the other hand it seems stones are a little too common. Not that I complain about getting good days, of course! But we get Tzu, Joule, Nobel, Schools, several times a week sometimes via stone. Recycle has been 6 months, I missed the tailoring day a few weeks back, won't be another until 2015 probably.

 

Dunno about 2-3 a month though...I think bumping the likelihood of a special day occuring naturally would help. The handful of day stones we do have now are _really_ good ones, and I'm always happy when one gets used, but I'd like to see some of the odder ones more like once every month or two, rather than once a year.

 

Z

[CherUT]

I like the fact that there is one day that's actually a rare day. So many special days I think we have more than enough day stones already

[Zilding]

I like the fact that there is one day that's actually a rare day. So many special days I think we have more than enough day stones already

I agree, but how rare is _too_ rare? We have 9 days with stones, which happen constantly... 5 a week at least, at a conservative estimate. And 13 other interesting good days that happen once or twice a freaking _year_? (More than 13 -- 13 by wiki but I notice it is missing at least Day of Running, so possibly others...)

 

Every time radu introduces a new good day -- and I am all for that, I love the idea of these random weird little days, day of running, day of mushrooms, and yes, recycling and tailoring too, and weird bad days as well -- it makes each non-stone day even more rare.

 

Honestly, I'd be pro getting rid of ordinary days entirely, even if it means a lot more bad days (and makes the 'rare' good ones more common as well). Makes the game more interesting when hey, Lenny is souped up, or no scotty, or whatever.

 

Z

[Zilding]

Just after I wrote that, realized, can't get rid of ordinaries entirely or stones would be useless. But you get the idea.

 

Z

[Rabbitman]

Could remove stone days from the pool of natural days. Would make tge othets occur more often.

[Thorus]

Since the chances of getting a recycle day is being lessened with every new special day we get

 

I'm not familiar with the special day mechanics, is this an actual fact?

[bkc56]

I'm not familiar with the special day mechanics, is this an actual fact?

I believe it's basic statistics. All things being equal, if you have two choices you'll, on average, get each one 50% of the time. If the number of coices increases to 10, you'll get each one 10% of the time. So the more choices are added, the lower the odds of getting any particular one (from 50% down to 10% in this example).

[MannyNZ]

This can go both ways.. can increase prices on items more.. and.. can decrease the prices items are sold at. Stuff will be cheaper i think. Although a better idea, i'd think, would be to to have day of recyle, but you must pay a npc like 25k to use the day.. Thatway can take gold out of the economy. So say 25 people used it (Im sure more) That's 625k right there. Instead of one person just buyin a stone and using it.

 

I wouldn't support that idea of the 25kgc to pay to use a day. This only forces EL into a two class society, those who can afford the 25kgc and those who can't. (Btw. i could afford it so this is not about me ). For the lower lvl players who can't afford it that day would suck and I'm sure they also would be happy to recycle the one or two SRs or steel bars they make and paying for that 25kgc would be an overkill to those players.

 

Could remove stone days from the pool of natural days. Would make tge othets occur more often.

That is actually a good idea. Would mean in the end that stone days would never occur naturally again. Thus people need to get the stones themselves. This would also mean more Badaran and Nenocrit hunts, thus opening again a better market for the items involved in hunting either of the two to obtain day stones.

 

 

Since the chances of getting a recycle day is being lessened with every new special day we get

 

I'm not familiar with the special day mechanics, is this an actual fact?

 

 

Two scenarios I can think of. First would be a separate dice roll for each day, meaning day 1 probability x, day 2 probability y ... once a day hist and this day becomes the special day then. That way the order is dependent and day 3 actually doesn't have a chance of z, but rather a probability of (1-x)*(1-y)*z to occur.

This is fairly not ideal and therefore I agree with bkc56 that it's basic statistics, though i don't think the probabilities discrete uniform distributed e.g. 1/x (x= number of special days) as he suggested. (Otherwise we would have recycle occurring more often)

 

I rather believe that all probabilities add up to 1 but are different. As an example we only have 3 days. That would make probabilities k for ordinary day, x for special day 1, y for special day 2 and z for special day 3.

Thus k+x+y+z = 1. (Where k is larger in comparison to x,y,z of course).

 

Introducing a new special day 4 now has to lower the probability of either of the 4 existing days, otherwise the sum can't stay 1.

 

As now k+x+y+z+h = 1 has to be true and h is the probability of special day 4 occurring with h>0 this means that k+x+y+z < 1 and therefore probability of either or all other days get reduced when introducing a new special day.

 

 

And now back to the main Topic:

As I have said earlier on i quite like RM's suggestion.

Another idea would be make recycle day a 24 hour lasting global quest reward. The global so far isn't really fun (another topic). And I am sure if recycle day could be a rewards more people would contribute towards the global quest.

[Thorus]

I rather believe that all probabilities add up to 1 but are different. As an example we only have 3 days. That would make probabilities k for ordinary day, x for special day 1, y for special day 2 and z for special day 3.

Thus k+x+y+z = 1. (Where k is larger in comparison to x,y,z of course).

 

Introducing a new special day 4 now has to lower the probability of either of the 4 existing days, otherwise the sum can't stay 1.

 

As now k+x+y+z+h = 1 has to be true and h is the probability of special day 4 occurring with h>0 this means that k+x+y+z < 1 and therefore probability of either or all other days get reduced when introducing a new special day.

 

Yes, but x,y,z would probably have actively defined chance rolls while default case k would be just k=1-x-y-z-...

 

I think it's not unlikely that as special days are added only default case shrinks.

[busterblader]

why not let neno or badaran drop rescyle day stone

[revi]

 

I rather believe that all probabilities add up to 1 but are different. As an example we only have 3 days. That would make probabilities k for ordinary day, x for special day 1, y for special day 2 and z for special day 3.

Thus k+x+y+z = 1. (Where k is larger in comparison to x,y,z of course).

 

Introducing a new special day 4 now has to lower the probability of either of the 4 existing days, otherwise the sum can't stay 1.

 

As now k+x+y+z+h = 1 has to be true and h is the probability of special day 4 occurring with h>0 this means that k+x+y+z < 1 and therefore probability of either or all other days get reduced when introducing a new special day.

 

Yes, but x,y,z would probably have actively defined chance rolls while default case k would be just k=1-x-y-z-...

 

I think it's not unlikely that as special days are added only default case shrinks.

 

I think easiest is to use two rolls:

- first to determine if we get a special day or not,

- second to determine which one.

 

And if you want the chances to be different, assign a weight to each day, sum the weights and use that sum for the range of your RND generator. No complicated math, no adjustments needed when you add (or remove) a day.

 

That also means that adding a new day affects all the others (good or bad) the same way.

[MannyNZ]

I think easiest is to use two rolls:

 

- first to determine if we get a special day or not,

- second to determine which one.

 

And if you want the chances to be different, assign a weight to each day, sum the weights and use that sum for the range of your RND generator. No complicated math, no adjustments needed when you add (or remove) a day.

 

That also means that adding a new day affects all the others (good or bad) the same way.

+1

Yeah that is what i think as well, or at least what i think it should be implemented that way.

 

And back to topic:

So far we have the following suggestions:

1) Pay an NPC 25kgc to be able to use recycle day.

2) Remove stone days from the pool of natural days -> other special days occur more often.

3) Make recycle day a 24hour lasting global reward.

4) Nenocrit or Badaran drop recycle day stone.

5) Remove Day of Recycling.

 

I would like to discuss pros and cons for those 4 suggestions we have gathered so far .

 

Edit: added in suggestion 5)

Edited August 28, 2014 by MannyNZ

[Rabbitman]

I will add another suggestion that will be met with much omfg and in no way will ever get community support, but I think it is the best option.

 

Remove Day of Recycling.

 

Omfg why?! Multiple reasons.

 

1. It encourages people to hoard rare ings rather than trade or use them in a timely fashion. This causes items to skyrocket in price when there has not been a recycle lately.

 

2. It encourages people to sell final products cheaper than ings since they "got it for free" via recycle. This messes up the market for months after each recycle day.

 

3. It rewards the very rich much more than the average player. They can afford to stockpile 100 binders and 50 eme for a recycle day and still have gc for day to day life. And they do not have to rush to sell items quickly after unlike poorer players whose entire storage value is held in recycle day ings/items.

 

Rm

Edited August 28, 2014 by Rabbitman

[MannyNZ]

2. It encourages people to sell final products cheaper than ings since they "got it for free" via recycle. This messes up the market for months after each recycle day.

I don't think that will happen. Greed always wins over lowering prices

 

On the other points I actually agree. As much as I like the idea of getting recycled stuff thus making free gc during that day as much I hate to have to wait that long which makes me save up stuff instead of mix it and be happy with it.

 

So no clear "no" for your second suggestion from my side. (Would be some kind of relief from all that waiting too).

 

I'll go and edit in your suggestion into that list I made in my previous post.

[saxum]

I think removing recycling day makes the most sense. I would say except as a special occurrence except players would still hoard items.

I know there are players hoarding ingredients increasing costs of rare items with even more players complaining about prices of current items

I have heard complaints 'I can find it on bot for much less' and the items being sold for less than cost of ingredients.

 

I suppose it is _possible_ that recycling day could be modified to NOT work on items which involve magic items (scales) or enriched items just like Harvest Cloak does not work to harvest rare ores requiring additional item. That way players could make as many bars, esses, potions, rings and low level manufacturing items as they wanted without adding to inflation of special items.

[MannyNZ]

Just had another random thought:

 

Remove recycle day and introduce an ingame spot with lowered crit rate.

Like the Fast Regen Spot on IP another Spot somewhere, where our current astro gets slightly altered so we crit a bit less.

 

This was just a spontaneous idea that came into mind and I welcome every thoughts about if that is a good or bad idea

 

Pro: People would go there and mix up stuff, but still have chance to crit once in a while -> reduces hoarding.

 

Con: Not sure about how much work that is to implement.

[Entris]

It would be interesting to know a bit more about the supposedly hoarding of ingredients compared to Now and Before the Recycle day.

 

Is the hoarding significantly higher now compared to before the #day was introduced or is it pretty much the same or just a small rise that is not something to bother with,

and how many extra items are introduced to the game due to the #day (higher end items that can make an impact on the market)?

 

Considering what the #day does it is not surprising that people are saving ingredients to mix when it occurs and perhaps that was taken in consideration when creating it?

[saxum]

Now recycling day shows up, middle of night for most if US and early morning for Europe but on a weekend.

Bots I am sure will be emptied out of rare items.

[MannyNZ]

I think we got a really nice solution here now:

* Recycling day stone, from Badaran.

 

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59601

 

Happy hunting everyone and ty radu.

[RipTide]