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Removal/modification of rule 5

Do you want to remove rule 5 (no trading between alts)  

143 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want to remove rule 5?

    • Yes
      41
    • No
      95
    • I don't care
      7


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i voted no, and if this got passed i would make 50 alts and harvest to ruin the economy, as i'm sure others would do.

... You can't ruin the economy if no one is buying.

Until we get more players, the buying to selling ratio will stay the same, for the most part.

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i voted Yes, to remove it.

 

although i'd like to see it removed with a restriction of interaction with 1 alt max.

reason for that is so people don't flood the market with too much stuff/gc earned from 5-6 alts.

 

on the other side being able to interact with an alt is nice cause it's so much easier for families to play together, or have the alt do the boring harvesting and do something fun on your main.

besides you can only pay so much attention to 2 clients, removing the rule will do more good then harm.

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I voted no, cause I dont think it will contribute to bettering the game.My question is: what happened that you might want to consider changing it now?

Edited by makuyi

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IF multi is allowed, then the greater part of the impetus behind mini's is negated.

If I remember correctly, they were implemented to defeat silver farmers. If they are no longer a concern, all I can say is \o/

 

As much as I would like to see mini's slip into the abyss, I have voted No. If you want to multi, and I surely understand the temptation, then the PK server is for you.

 

Cheers!

Ferny

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I voted no.

  • I remember seeing someone with 4 chars, each at one iron mine. If we remove rule #5, the game will be flooded with situations like that.
  • This is a community based game. If I were to have a potioner alt, a manufacturer alt, a fighter alt, etc.. etc.., I am better off playing some single game that doesn't even need an internet connection.
  • Trading with alts works on pk server because of the low amount of players there but on a large scale, problems will arise. It will only create a fake illusion of the number of players who play EL and I doubt we need that considering everyone today wants a ranger alt and a tank alt. Just go play on PK server. Chars there cost real money to be created and you will be supporting Eternal Lands.
  • People who have been banned in the past for illegal multi will feel this is not fair to them. We can always allow them back but considering that many of them have the tendency to create different sorts of trouble, this may be risky.
  • Ingredient availability/prices. Allowing trading with alts will gradually decrease prices because it can flood the market with raw materials. An alternative solution would be to completely remove mini events and hope people will start harvesting their own stuff instead of hiring harvesting services.

Edit: We sometimes run into situations where people say "I can't trade as much as I would like with my sister/brother/mom/dad/husband/wife/roommate because of rule #5". I am sure we can come up with a system that is more lenient to real people (not alts) playing from the same IP address without removing or modifying rule #5.

Edited by hussam

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But you all are aware that we are talking about removing rule #5, not allowing macroing, yes?

 

All of you who think, that the market will be flooded and prices will go down (which would be good, so, for example, i don't need to buy my matter essies for a high price from NPC's), just try it out.

 

Create an alt or two, harvest with them tons of rare materials and train your main char.

 

You don't need to trade with your alts to find out if that is a pleasant game play and you will do that every day for hours and hours, or if that becomes too stressful and boring.

 

My guess is, you will find out pretty fast, that playing that way is not really a big benefit for you/impact on the market.

 

Keep in mind, it will be YOU, who is doing all that harvesting stuff, since macroing is and should be still illegal!

 

Keep in mind, that it will be YOU, who trains all those specialized alts, like rangers and tanks. While doing so, you can hardly train your main char, so instead of investing all your time in leveling your main, you must split your time into leveling your main + alt chars.

 

So the only problem i see here might be char buying, if ppl don't level their own alts.

 

And of course, if we drop rule #5, some things, like Anti social perk or Harvester of sorrow, must be adjusted/removed, that you can't abuse using alt chars.

 

I voted Yes, btw.

 

Piper

Edited by The_Piper

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I voted Yes too, for same reason as Piper. I really dont care much however whether it passes or not, as I am not someone whp thinks that making a lot of gc or whatever ingame whatever is very important. It is not real. I have talked to some in El who imo make really weird statements like "I want to be richest person in EL" I cant help wondering why anyone would care. I guess some people's self image is so low that they actually base their image of themselves by how rich their pretend char is in a mmo? Personally, I do make quite a lot of coin at this point in game, I am a hard worker and I have some fairly good paying skills. And I also can buy from shop if I really need money and sell a few rostos, which I am not the least big ashamed of, for those of you who think shop that is so evil, which seems off to me, incidentally as how I was raised and believe, expecting something something for nothing is far worse.

 

The bottom line is it wont affect me or how I play the game, except if it were made legal and I started a new character, if I did, (I have a couple already so this is not a given) I might give my new character some healing pots and low level noob stuff to get started, but is not necessary and not different really than what many of us do in that we get same sort of stuff from friends for our alts to start.....nothing big, but a few pickaxes, a few gloves, a few minor health pots and maybe some noob armor for when our free pair breaks or is lost in death.....

 

I see nothing wrong with that. I realize some really greedy people who have a really inflated idea of what EL wealth is worth, will take advantage of the change , but I am neither impressed with such players wealth or care what they do.

I am more impressed by players who take an active part in EL, and give of themselves rather than take take take. But if taking is all one gets pleasure out of, let em take I say. It really does not hurt me, and if that all that gives them joy in life they are more to be pitied that anything. Some many get sooooo upset by others perceived wrongs. I try to just ignore such behavior and concentrate on the positive. I think we as a group are highly resistant to change in game. I think it would be ok if we tried things like this, if they fail, radu can reintroduce the rule.....I say try it without and if it is a problem either add more rules or whatver or just go back to the way it was. Is not the end of the world, nothing must be permanent in a game like this. Nobody is going to die from the change. (Nh maybe will kill a few who knows but he wont kill me, I never go to pk area, so his behavior has not bearing on me what-so-ever)

 

Still, just for the record, I am only voting yes because I think we should try some changes. It wont hurt and maybe it would be helpful, if not, change back, and they try some new changes. . I think the game will be better if it is allowed to continue to evolve and that means change. Not that is it bad now, but change is a good thing really, though most of us are afraid of it. Change fights boredom and can really help morale. Have you ever rearranged your furniuture when you are depressed. It does wonders for your mood.......so a bit of change can uplift the spirit of a gaming community. And if it does not , of course, get rid of the thing you changed. But nobody really knows til you try. Alot of you act like you know exactly what will happen in any given change of events but I dont believe most of you really know, you are just hypothesizing and you may or may not be right. Truth is most outcomes can not be absolutely known for certain. they must be tried.

 

I do agree that our game need not be the same as all other MMos, however, rule 5 is not the life of EL. It is not the primary thing that makes our game differrent. It is not taht important. I would say more important is the fact that we are not made to pick our class at the start and we can have the build of our choice and we can change---and most of all what makes us different is we are a small but vibrant and close knit community and we have a dynamic all our own and a cool game leader (teh_g-d) who takes an active interest in playing with us. YOU never see this in other games. Radu is a part of our game,,,, not just the creator of it or the distant boss. WHether you love him or hate him or somewhere in between, he is a very big reason we love the game as he spends so much energy on it and plays it with us. This is by far more the reason our game is special than any one rule. So I vote yet to try it.

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later it could affect the market too, in a bad way...ok, my thoughts

IMO it can only affect 'the market' for the better. More toons harvesting=more raw materials, for players to use but also to trade on market. More raw materials on market = a little more balance in the demand for the hotselling things like silver, iron, coal, even iron/steel bars etc. ......

 

I don't see the need for a market or trading if I we can all have unlimited alts trading with each other. One alt would be dedicated to harvesting iron ore and coal and hauling to sto; another would make endless FEs; the third would make a ton of steel bars. Who would want to buy these since everyone else could do the same thing? OK so we make a ton of weapons and armour out of these bars. Now what? Who will buy these? No marketplace = no team work = no game play.

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First off, looks like most people are voting no so really does not matter, however, just want to say, do you really thing that players who we know today will completely change their play style if this is a yea. Can you really imagine those players who are mainly A/D type training or PK starting alts to harvest all the time iron, carry to sto, make FES all their own weapons and armors and such.....I don't think so.. They would not enjoy that anymore then than they do now.

I am not really an all-rounder, I am specialized somewhat. I am an engineer and a crafter. I would not begin to get alts to make anything I don't make myself already, and I know I am not alone. Some of us don't like to do certain things or we prefer to do others. Mostly we are all like that. I buy harvestibles from GEN X and would continue to do so. I do harvest but I don't like to do it all the time all day. See, there maybe a few who would do it all,,,,,but most would not I think. I don't think we would stop buying essies or bars or armors or anything. I don't buy that argument at all. However, you don't really need to continue to protest so much as you are winning anyway regardless of whether you are right or wrong in your reasoning, and as I said before, it really does not affect me anyway, so don't care really about the outcome either way.

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I wanted to vote "No" but piper made me think again.

 

On the one hand I'd like to do more with my GF and maybe help out my alt. But on the other hand there are a few limitations like the anti-perk that can be worked around with alts. On the spot mixing can also be easier with alts which reduces the need for mixing parties and reduces the team work aspect.

 

Using an alt to make something easier in a game always feels like cheating to me, even if its allowed in the rules.

Edited by ago

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I have voted yes,

BUT if it gets through (what i do not believe) it should not be simply removed but modified.

 

What i think it needs is a limit on the alternate chars that are allowed to interact with each other.

 

Some Things that are restricted to do.

 

Trading goods between them not a real reason for a ban in my book.

Interacting differently with friends just because they are on an other char makes the play experience less enjoyable.

 

But some restrictions need to be on or gaming would get to easy or some things will not help game play.

 

I know i do not play my alts much at all because of the headache it causes when i play this game with an alt.

Edited by vinoveritas

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the other reason i say yes is that there more than one skill you do...... but if you want do that you got move points around and that there is hard to do as well so give some of us a chance to try new skills with out messing up are mains...and if u vote i think u need think more on what u like to try to do and keep alt's down to 2 per person

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Voted yes. Why? As Piper said macroing should be illegal, but if someone has a will and time to play 4-5 chars and are able to multitask them, they won't be a problem cause there are not many of them to affect economy.

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Since I no longer play EL I do not vote. But removing rule 5 at this point without addressing other issues with the game economy first would be a big mistake. You complain now about 55k rostos? wait until they are 120k then.

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i voted no, because it will not benifit gameplay and probably have a worse effect on the social aspects of the game

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One alt would be dedicated to harvesting iron ore and coal and hauling to sto; another would make endless FEs; the third would make a ton of steel bars.

And thats a thought a lot of ppl obviously get totally wrong.

 

The alt char itself will do NOTHING, it will be YOU, who harvests, does alchemy and such, and no one else. Macroing is and should be IMO still forbidden, so the only person who can harvest, alch and such, level the alts, let them read books, train your main char and so on is YOU.

 

No one else, no macro, no ficus, just YOU must do all the work.

 

As i said in my other post: Try it.

 

Maybe Radu can give permission, that we can use the test server for such a test. Create some alts there, log into your main and play and see if you will get tons of stuff in storage. And do it not for just 10 minutes, do it for a whole evening, or a whole week and decide THEN if the impact is really that big as a lot of ppl think.

 

Piper

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The alt char itself will do NOTHING, it will be YOU, who harvests, does alchemy and such, and no one else. Macroing is and should be IMO still forbidden, so the only person who can harvest, alch and such, level the alts, let them read books, train your main char and so on is YOU.

 

No one else, no macro, no ficus, just YOU must do all the work.

 

As i said in my other post: Try it.

 

Maybe Radu can give permission, that we can use the test server for such a test. Create some alts there, log into your main and play and see if you will get tons of stuff in storage. And do it not for just 10 minutes, do it for a whole evening, or a whole week and decide THEN if the impact is really that big as a lot of ppl think.

 

Piper

 

And an alt with MM perk who saves your bags when you die, reducing the need of ro-stones?

 

Or alts that take advantage of reduced harv event days / globals to help you stock up?

 

Or perhaps your main does the harvesting of something like iron ore and your alts just mule it back-n-forth?

 

MM perk alt that goes to maps to buy books that your main would get killed on?

 

Lenny searching by having alts in multiple maps?

 

The above wouldn't be hard to do with multiple accounts. And each would affect the economy.

 

What about a 1 man instance? Don't know enough myself about instances or how much healing is required by a tank... but given that we already have 3 man instances... I don't see it as a stretch for the innovative community to figure out how to do a 1 man instance. You'll know when the bitching happens about lag that kicked them out of the instance and how the time to re-log in should be extended.

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Tried it on test server for however long I played there, a month or two. There is no problem at all having 2 or more alts harving liliacs and selling to NPC while your main trains a/d. The a/d exp is the same for the main while you gain a substantial gc bonus from the harv alts (heck i read forum while training my alts normally, so much waiting between spawns).

 

People wouldn't harv iron and coal, people would harv and sell stuff to npc to buy w/e they need directly from NPC and since this is supposed to be a multi player game it's a big no from me. Secondly #stats says Available: 882 as I type this, well, if this would be allowed I would have roughly 5 alts online not becouse I wanted to, it would be boring but becouse it would be free gc while I did other things, like typing here. If 1400 is the real max number the server would be full and more than so, so much fun not being able to log on your main becouse people are running 10 alts.

 

Wizzy talks about 120k rostos, personally I think that's on the cheap side.

 

-Little

 

Edit: Just thought of it, remove Joker since you could have 1 alt at each spawn, for those that know all spawns that is (would be easy to figure out with alts though)

Edited by littlestar

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I voted for I dont care.

 

I don't.

 

Maybe you should re-think a few of the other rules (and those who enforce them).

 

Also; if you're looking to fix the EL economy (by allowing more alts? Means what, cheaper gear because ings are easier to come by?), radu, you're hurting your $$/bank balance at the end of it.

Edited by _iNvoKeD

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First, i was speaking about the massive stuff which will enter the game/market, not other things which can be abused too. But, of course, there is more stuff affected than the market.

 

And an alt with MM perk who saves your bags when you die, reducing the need of ro-stones?

Modify or remove the MM perk, as i said 100 years ago. Now the MM perk costs, according to ency, 5 ppts and 1500gc. Lets increase that or make a certain level (a/d, OA, whatever) needed to take that perk to get rid of easy bagsitter alts. Or, remove it totally. There is still the cloak, which can changed that you need a certain level to wear it too, so you must train your alt at first before you can use it.

Or alts that take advantage of reduced harv event days / globals to help you stock up?

 

Or perhaps your main does the harvesting of something like iron ore and your alts just mule it back-n-forth?

Try it, IMO it's not a big advantabe if you do that once in a blue moon. Try it every day and think if you want to do that every day.

MM perk alt that goes to maps to buy books that your main would get killed on?

*Points at above, MM perk*

Lenny searching by having alts in multiple maps?

How many clients can you watch with just two eyes?

What about a 1 man instance? Don't know enough myself about instances or how much healing is required by a tank... but given that we already have 3 man instances... I don't see it as a stretch for the innovative community to figure out how to do a 1 man instance. You'll know when the bitching happens about lag that kicked them out of the instance and how the time to re-log in should be extended.

Dunno, but if you can do instances alone with some alts, there is definately something wrong with the implementation of the group event *Instance*.

 

And here we are again at the discussion what is *fair* or *unfair*.

 

Some ppl have no life and can play 12 hours/day or even more.

 

I can't do that, so they have an advantage. Fair? Unfair?

 

Someone needs to harvest for 10 days to get money to buy reasonable armor+weapons for pking. With alts he can do it in 5 days maybe. Is that fair or unfair or does it hurt the market, because that person can go now going pking more often and breaks more stuff and can replace it faster?

 

Of course we need some modifications and can't drop rule #5 alone and everything is fine. As i mentioned, some perks and stuff cant stay as they are, when rule #5 gets dropped.

 

Well, just my 2 cents, but this discussion is not only black and white, but it has several shades of grey..

 

Piper

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I voted yes although I can see some valid arguments for yes & no here. I guess we can keep debating this every so often and guessing what effect it will have on the game but imho I think the only way to find out for sure is to give it a try. Decisions can be reversed if they don't work, right? I am not a 24-7 player and I am sure those with more playing hours and more or better computers than me may benefit more but then they already have more hours to level than I do so makes no difference. One argument I am struggeling with is that everyone will suddenly be playing loads of alts all at the same time, for no matter how many computers some players may or may not have they still have one pair of hands dont they ? and the more alts you play the less attention you can pay to each one,providing ofc that macro remains illegal. I think if we gave it a try it might just add a bit more fun to the game and those with shared computer s/ip addresses would not risk being banned for just playing the game. Doesnt look from the vote that it will be a yes this time but i do hope at some point in time we give it a try

just my 2 peneth worth

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I think certain relaxation of it might be good -- perhaps allowing 'fair' trades between alts. Example, you could sell an alt FE's for 5 gc (which is, of course, the common price). Enforcement might be difficult, though, somebody would actually have to review all trades between alts, and make a judgment call on whether or not the trade was fair (especially for stuff that doesn't have a real 'set', common value). Perhaps a one-time gift to a new alt up to a certain value could be allowed, to help a new char start out.

 

With that said, I voted no to removal of the rule entirely.

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