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Instance for Mixers

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Hatwood and I were having a talk about nothing the other day that turned into a talk about something. An instance type activity where mixers can work together as a team for an end reward.

 

Here is how I see it (its hard to remember whose ideas were whose at this point)

 

-As an instancer you would need to bring in all your own food and tools to the instance map.

-You need rostos to enter and stay just like the existing fighter instances.

-The only harvable food on the map is toads

-You can not bring HE/SR/EMP/GHP/BRs to this map (meaning you will have to make your own once you are there.)

-The map would have harvest-able resources and NPCs at different points.

-At each stage of the instance you would talk to the NPC, receive a task and then have a time limit to find the resources needed to mix, complete the task and get the items to the npc

-Each successfully completed task comes with a reward of food (other then toads) and something small, maybe some enriched essys.

-If the team meets each time limit then they advance to the next npc who has a harder task and a larger reward

-If the team is able to advance to the end they get a large end of instance reward, perhaps a #day stone.

-Each task could be for any mixing skill (alch, manu, craft, pots, eng, ect.) so you would do well to build a diverse team who can harv fast and make many different things.

-The tasks could be anything from, 'We need 1k FEs', to 'these pesky invisy rats are bothering us. Go make some TS pots and kill them all', to 'we need to outfit our army, please bring us 20 swords.'

 

Some points already considered:

-This instance would need to have multiple maps and tasks so that a well put together team can't just learn the map and tasks and run the same instance over and over

-the risk v. reward would have to be considered carefully to be sure that the prizes are not too great or too bad.

 

 

If anyone else has ideas to help refine this, please post :) If you see any holes in the idea as it stands in this post, please post. :) Lets all be nice and try not to turn this into a mixer/harver v. fighter thing.

 

*edit- I also have some ideas for an instance where fighters and mixers need to work together toward the end goal but I think that should be a separate post so that the ideas don't get confused.

Edited by Nova

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I really like this idea. At the moment, the only way noncombat-oriented mixers can participate in instances is by providing supplies, muling, or if you have a decent range level/AP, ranging.

Although, some problems to be addressed:

 

I agree that there would have to be more than one map. There should be tiers, as in the combat instances. But how would it be scaled? perhaps by using the same formula to calculate noncombat rank. Or maybe even it could be tiered by your level in the "mixing skills," i.e. I have 62 craft, it is my highest mixing skill, so i would be placed in whichever map is for level 60 in a skill.

 

How many is the max amount of players for an instance? We don't want one pr0 allrounder going in and pwning the instance by themselves, and we would want it to be possible for players with only one leveled mixing skill to participate (I mean, would we want it so each person can be proficient in one skill? Like one person each for alch, pot, summon(?), manu, craft, eng, tai)

 

If we cannont take HE/SR/BR/EMP/GHP, what items are permitted to take? (poison antis?) would we be able to take raw ingreds?

 

And, finally, the risk/profit ratio would have to be tweaked. It would be difficult. We can't have it too easy (because then radu wouldn't get any bricks), but how would we do this while still making it possible for very low a/d mixers to participate? (meaning the risk can't come from difficult mobs to be killed). I mean, mixing with toads is risky, but if every participant was able to make plenty of HE/SR/poison anti, the risk from them is nearly nonexistant.

 

I'll probably think of more later, but this is all I have for now :) great idea, Nova! (EDIT: and hatwood :D)

 

(Nocturne ingame)

Edited by Eternity

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What about eliminating EXP earned during the instance? So it's not really an EXP farming event, but a more "for fun" event.

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Interesting idea.

 

What about eliminating EXP earned during the instance? So it's not really an EXP farming event, but a more "for fun" event.

 

Is that how the regular instances work? It would seem to me that this would be a disincentive to go on such an instance, but maybe that's just me.

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What about eliminating EXP earned during the instance? So it's not really an EXP farming event, but a more "for fun" event.
Is that how the regular instances work?
No.
It would seem to me that this would be a disincentive to go on such an instance, but maybe that's just me.

Indeed. Edited by Lorck

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What is the loss in this? I don't see any negative things that can happen (or persuade radu to implement it) There is no money sink like instances (rostos, he, sr, armor, swords, tokens, scales, etc...). I guess the only loss as you have proposed it is the fact that you didn't finish..... This instance would be long or short, depending on the required items to pass to the next level...

 

My suggestion, make the map poisonous or give it radiation damage that can't be blocked (WS Sewers) when moving. Another idea is to increase the damage dealt when harvesting as well as how often it strikes. (Maybe remove the mini events and have all new instance harvesting events?)

 

Or if you do not fulfill the objective after a certain time, a rather weak wave of monsters would be spawned (Also possibly having a chance to drop food/instance requirement items) Though this will only promote waiting till the time runs out and farm the food/instance items.... So probably a no on that idea...

 

If you want to go more in depth on what you might lose in this (why carry a rosto?) gc wise.

 

My 2 cents,

 

Cyrus

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What is the loss in this? I don't see any negative things that can happen

You probably skipped the part about the only food available being toadstools and you can't use any sort of healing.

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Although, some problems to be addressed:

 

I agree that there would have to be more than one map. There should be tiers, as in the combat instances. But how would it be scaled? perhaps by using the same formula to calculate noncombat rank. Or maybe even it could be tiered by your level in the "mixing skills," i.e. I have 62 craft, it is my highest mixing skill, so i would be placed in whichever map is for level 60 in a skill.

I wasn't envisioning anything with tiers like that. I was thinking more that you would have to carefully build your team with people who have high levels and many nexus. You won't know what tasks are going to be assigned until you get in, so you better plan for everything.

 

How many is the max amount of players for an instance? We don't want one pr0 allrounder going in and pwning the instance by themselves, and we would want it to be possible for players with only one leveled mixing skill to participate (I mean, would we want it so each person can be proficient in one skill? Like one person each for alch, pot, summon(?), manu, craft, eng, tai)

Good point. There should be a max amount of people to enter the map that way no one can take a team of 20 fully loaded mules. With the time limit to each task I don't think just one person could go in and pwn. The tasks should be big enough that you need some people scouting to find the resources in the first place, some mixing and some harving and some running back and forth between the two. With all those jobs even someone with low level a/d will have a use.

 

If we cannont take HE/SR/BR/EMP/GHP, what items are permitted to take? (poison antis?) would we be able to take raw ingreds?

No for sure to raw ings. Not positive about antis. I would lean toward no BUT would suggest there be deer in the map for people to kill for antlers and for all the other harvable ings to be found somewhere in the map. Like wine for SRs, you would have to remember to bring your own ale.

 

And, finally, the risk/profit ratio would have to be tweaked. It would be difficult. We can't have it too easy (because then radu wouldn't get any bricks), but how would we do this while still making it possible for very low a/d mixers to participate? (meaning the risk can't come from difficult mobs to be killed). I mean, mixing with toads is risky, but if every participant was able to make plenty of HE/SR/poison anti, the risk from them is nearly nonexistant.

This is the area where both hat and I were having trouble. How do you make it risky enough? Infection had great ideas with poison areas around the resources and more damaging harvest events. With no mobs, you don't have to worry so much about low a/d people being helpful as long as they can harv, mix, or scout. Also don't forget the possibility of not bringing in enough wine to make your SRs thus not being able to replenish mana. This is something else that makes me lean toward not letting antis be brought in, but having the means to make them on the map, as well. And also the time limit should provide another danger. You could get really jazzed and eat waaaay too many toads to survive for long.

 

 

What about eliminating EXP earned during the instance? So it's not really an EXP farming event, but a more "for fun" event.

 

I kind of consider the XP you would get as part of the reward actually. Maybe have this type of instance have a non removable cool down like the new WTF instance.

 

What is the loss in this? I don't see any negative things that can happen (or persuade radu to implement it) There is no money sink like instances (rostos, he, sr, armor, swords, tokens, scales, etc...). I guess the only loss as you have proposed it is the fact that you didn't finish..... This instance would be long or short, depending on the required items to pass to the next level...

This was another problem I was having a hard time coming up with a solution for. Maybe an option to give the NPC a rosto to continue to the next task if you do not complete the current task in time. Also some of the tasks could ask to make vials or mercury or something needing mercury so there would be a chance of molds and alembics poofing.

 

My suggestion, make the map poisonous or give it radiation damage that can't be blocked (WS Sewers) when moving. Another idea is to increase the damage dealt when harvesting as well as how often it strikes. (Maybe remove the mini events and have all new instance harvesting events?)

Awesome ideas :D I stole them already ;)

 

 

What is the loss in this? I don't see any negative things that can happen

You probably skipped the part about the only food available being toadstools and you can't use any sort of healing.

@ Infection: Yep, the only food available on the map being toads would be one big negative. Another would be an unprepared team who didn't bring enough wine or vials or a vial mold to make SRs to replenish mana. And then there are the other things you suggested as well which are good ideas to add risk without fighting.

@ Lorck: I didn't say you couldn't heal, I said you couldn't bring pre made stuff inside with you. Not being able to heal at all would be too big a disadvantage imo. :)

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Interesting idea, I know there have been some contests among people in game to go to certain maps with a time limit and have two teams competing on who can make the most product in gc value by the end. So i can see people participating in this.

 

Things that could be done with this:

Certain areas have radiation/cold/heat damage and you have to harvest things there but not the whole map meaning you have to bring pots or ess to counter it or possibly wear armor.

 

Some areas accessed only by TTR spell meaning muling is limited on certain items

 

Areas of the map could be "locked" unless item from NPC or harvestable is used to access it if the team can figure it out. Perhaps performing a subquest for an NPC and they give you a clue to the item. Item cycles so it will not be the same every time.

 

Prizes could also be XP books (normal or possibly special ones) or XP itself not just rare items, i would go for that :)

 

As to one person going in and doing this themselves i think the products should be set high enough to wear one person couldn't possibly do enough mixing but a group can always mix faster.

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I think that this is an interesting and refreshing idea about the possibilities of instances. Of course there would be much to be thrashed out about the fine details, but in principle it's a great idea.

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Maybe to solve rostol issue some special items could only be created on map using rostols. Maybe the special day stone requires a rostol as ingredient?

 

Big issue is anything requiring a special tool - tools break, often too often, which means you need duplicates of everything. A fighter can get away with a missing part of their armor or using a backup weapon but a mixer can not substitute tools. How many Alembics, Arrow/bolt head molds, Buckets, Carving Knifes, Gemstone hammers & chisels, Hammers, Leather Gloves, Medallion Molds, Mortars & Pestles Needles, Pickaxes, Ring Molds, Saws, Scissors, Vial Molds to bring?

 

Fighters have very little variety but mixers often skip some books because items are so unprofitable. Fighters can kill anything without ever practicing on it if their level.

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Big issue is anything requiring a special tool - tools break, often too often, which means you need duplicates of everything. A fighter can get away with a missing part of their armor or using a backup weapon but a mixer can not substitute tools. How many Alembics, Arrow/bolt head molds, Buckets, Carving Knifes, Gemstone hammers & chisels, Hammers, Leather Gloves, Medallion Molds, Mortars & Pestles Needles, Pickaxes, Ring Molds, Saws, Scissors, Vial Molds to bring?

 

I was thinking about this after i posted, perhaps some tools can be bought either at very high prices or with rostos from the NPC if you break to many adding "risk" or at least some castle building possibilities as Tools are the weapons and armor of a mixer.

 

Also i think hyperbagging should be disabled if possible on these maps that way a team can't store up for the next time they get the map.

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Maybe to solve rostol issue some special items could only be created on map using rostols. Maybe the special day stone requires a rostol as ingredient?

 

Big issue is anything requiring a special tool - tools break, often too often, which means you need duplicates of everything. A fighter can get away with a missing part of their armor or using a backup weapon but a mixer can not substitute tools. How many Alembics, Arrow/bolt head molds, Buckets, Carving Knifes, Gemstone hammers & chisels, Hammers, Leather Gloves, Medallion Molds, Mortars & Pestles Needles, Pickaxes, Ring Molds, Saws, Scissors, Vial Molds to bring?

 

Fighters have very little variety but mixers often skip some books because items are so unprofitable. Fighters can kill anything without ever practicing on it if their level.

I don't like the idea of for sure needing a rosto for anything. Fighters have a chance not to burn one, why not mixers? I mentioned in my other post that maybe a good idea would be to be able to advance by paying a rosto if you don't meet the time limit.

 

Planning what tools and what team mates you bring and how many of each is part of the challenge before you even get in. Poor planning will equal poor instance.

 

@ elf_ninja: multiple maps with random chance to go to any one of them should solve the hyper problem.... but maybe only till a team gets all the maps and has bags on each.... OK good idea.

Edited by Nova

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I see the toads now, thanks ^^ But is there really a way that you can prevent certain items from entering an instance? That will take some time writing, unless I am just that stupid with coding :P

 

I <3 the idea. But, what if you are wanting to mule? Can you use Creature food to get into instance? It is a potion'd item. I know you could get around this by picking the stuff up right before you enter before the 30 secs are over... Just curious what your thoughts are on this.

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Honestly I'm not sure if something like that would be able to be coded. The game can tell when you have rostos in your inv in instances so something kind of similar is already possible. I think it might be a matter of how big a pain in the butt it would be to code.

 

I'd say using mule to get into and move stuff around in the instance would be good strategy.

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It could be you have to go naked carrying nothing into an instance map. You have to do everything from scratch.

The instance map has everything you need to mix feastings, antidotes or SRs, all essences, bars, weapons, etc... It has an NPC that sells vials, ale, wine, pickaxe, leather gloves

The NPC will buy flowers/veggies from you and this will be your only method to get gcs to buy picks, etc..

An NPC gives you a task for instance:

1. A certain number of titanium short swords which you have to mule to the NPC.

2. Or deliver 3 EMEs so you mix MEs like crazy hoping to come up with 3 EMEs.

and other similar tasks that you have to finish in a limited period of time.

 

I'd certainly participate in something like that ;)

Edited by hussam

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I'd take another route with this one - mixers often complain that it is hard to get animal resources like furs, feathers etc. so perhaps they would be willing to do instances where animals dropping them spawn? Also, that would be a good source of income for low a/d chars. Adding a cockatrice or something similar as a "boss" would encourage ranging training at least between those who do not train a/d, and also provide some bricks for Radu possibly. Things like hawks also hit hard low a/d chars. A playerbase of those who could participate would be much larger, so programming effort would give more benefits and fun for a masses rather than for a dozen of individuals :P

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Initially I laughed at the idea -

 

However reading the posts - there could be a way forward with this..

Map has mineras/ore and flowers, some low lvl mobs to drop gold, and some npc/shops - maybe in random spots?

 

After a certain time in the instance certain mobs are spawned - and you have to kill them to get out.

 

In that time you choose what to mix - be it he/sr/swords/weapons etc.

 

Problems as I see it.....

A pro tank will be able to kill just about anything practical - so maybe a a/d max limit

No benefit to Radu - unless a fee to enter

Not sure is code able to check you go in naked

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Interesting idea really... but we need to sort out things which comming up when we compare it to existing instances - no risk, easy reward, free exp, free stuff and so on, exactly what people pointed out already. And I bet there would be always some who will not agree, which can annoy Radu to don't bother about this at all...

 

Read the hussam post - he got the point, I was thinking the same - this is the way! :pirate:

 

- random sort of goals to need huge time to discover them all

- I like the idea with "steps" through all skills, like 1st wave with CoL as goal, 2nd with green robe, 3rd as titanium set and so on :)

- of course it should be doable in some time frame for people with limited time to play like 1-4 hours, so it would be team work specific thing definitely!

- you can enter without bringing anything inside (well, maybe equipment only like armor, harvester cape & med and CoL/helm), not sure if this can be checked but should not be hard to code or?

- you will have to make ALL from scratch, harvest - mule - mix anything needed to final item(s)

- can be one map only, why to make it harder for creators - it would be different every time when you cannot bring anything in and it would be dependant on team coordination and skills ... map with all sources divided to specific locations like suggested before, islands with need to teleport to get there or some kind of "payment" to pass through

- not sure if huge reward is needed, I like the idea of XP books

- make an achievment similar to Instancer for successfull finished missions, this can be motivating for many mixers as well to join the fun :)

 

The key would be NPCs loaded on the map. Let there be always the same group but the location can be random each time (should be doable when I look on Joker moving ingame already). Would test explorers as well :fire:

With NPC(s) giving the goal there would be trade NPCs providing stuff like tools and non-harvesting stuff like raw meat, animal parts, stones, leather, wine etc. Each one will work like Harvy in DP and will offer you things like: for 500 fruits I'll give you 5 pickaxes. For 300 water essies, I'll give you 500 sanding paper and so on...

- can be random each time (if possible to code), so after few mission you will not know that Alex will give you 10 leather gloves for 1k impatients - you will only know Alex can provide you the gloves but can be snaps, yellow roses or shrooms... and you must find where Alex is first... :pickaxe:

- so don't agree with "only toads" mixing to add the risk, key is to plan and organize WHILE your time is ticking out... try make trade with npc providing enrichment stones and make a vial mold, trade with another one for vials and meat and make feasting pots for whole team or it would be faster to let someone harvest and distribute toads and make HEs and srs as parallel to heal? what would be easier? ;)

 

I bet I can write twice as this post to share with my ideas I got after reading this suggestion, but you got the point I hope. THERE ARE things to think out more but I think if you still reading my post and don't writing reply already after reading only first lines, you got the whole picture now ...

You may like it or not, it's not about how to get profit from a "mixing instance" and pr0 stuff and stones, it's like sort of mission or team quest. I don't know if it would be worth for Radu to implement these, but I can see it it's a starting sketch to start consider and talk about them without bad words from fighters side.... I will LOVE such addition to the game!

 

Just my opinion, thanks for reading :D

 

Vidriel

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How about sort of defend the castle scenario. Imagine something like NRM or Thelinor.

 

Team enters with absolutely nothing / with rostos only (exc cape?).

There are several monster waves starting with easy animals that are useful for mixing stuff and provide some gc for NPCs.

The point is to make all the stuff used at the instance and defend the landing area. There could be a stationary target with certain amount of HP that gets attacked by the waves, unless they are intercepted fast enough.

 

Implement barricades to add strategic bonus.

 

NPC trades your s2e's for hydro ore etc, they also sell leather and other basic npc stuff. Food could be limited to shrooms/bones only, or allow FPS from NPC. One map, all resources available. The castle outsides could be dangerous with random monster invasions, if you die there's a respawn time unless a rosto (or similar item) was used.

 

Some random NPC quests that give some bonuses. For example bring tailoring items and get something to help the team. It's up to the team to decide if they should try to provide equipment fast or split team to work for bonuses too.

 

No time limit, but the waves force you to act fast. There's always something to do for everyone and both mixers and fighters are needed.

 

Items made in instance are poofed at the end, but team keeps the rewards.

Edited by Dugur

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An excellent idea, have seen some very good suggestions and theories in this threat, would love to see that the idea will be considered, my only addition to the suggestions (unless I over read it) would it to be min-max level selected, like we have now for the fighters, so different groups could have fun, with different difficulty levels (goals) and rewards.

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I very like the idea but now it goes splitting in 2 ways:

(hussam)(Vidriel) 
1 time limit (req rosto) if not manage in time to lvl up

 

(Dugur)
1 waves speeds up the team to work faster for equipment

 

 

 

I do agree entering naked only for both

and keeping rewards only not equipment for both

 

my meaning more for the second idea : waves speeds up the team

 

but as sad from nova from beginning

Lets all be nice and try not to turn this into a mixer/harver v. fighter thing.

I'd say first idea time limit that takes rosto

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There could be a stationary target with certain amount of HP that gets attacked by the waves, unless they are intercepted fast enough.

 

This gave me an ideea. To have a stationary target, that will give you what to mix, if you bring him in amount of time, it will heal x health points if not than it will remain with what left. And to be there several waves like for fighters. Rosto loss, if task not completed.

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