New Break Rate

[Wizzy]

The biggest problem I see is more 80a/d 100 a/d level fighters will ts attack down -19 and go fight over ogre spawns. If the fluffys they normaly train break too much, they will do this for some x/p and a few drops to sell to trik. and a few bones to sell on market. It would be really nice to see a sample of log of what was broken before the update for the same time span as none of us really know if this is a lot, or if the above log is a noraml representaion of a normal day. I am sure we will survive what ever is implemented.

[Aislar]

PKing = rost losing = more bricks

 

exactly, and if i do remember correctly, i believe there are quite a few posts in these forums about how to get pk more active not less active, am i correct?

 

edit: if this breakage rate stays, then it stays. if it does, then the cost of other items, mainly armor, should change too.

Edited April 22, 2008 by Aislar

[Entropy]

Actually I think it's a lot. I guess it's about 70 broken items. Let's guess that there are about 1k fighters of the 2k players. That means 7% of the people break something expensive each day. It's not like every player earns more than 10kgc each day. And how many of those fighters actually wear expensive stuff? A lot low level players don't wear this stuff, so it's an even smaller part who takes all those breaks.

 

But those are just my thoughts, I don't know how many things broke before the change, that would be much more intresting.

 

Actually, there are 57 things that broke in that log, some of them being bows (which are relatively cheap and designed to break in hand to hand combat).

So probably the rate would be more around 5%, which means that statistically, it takes 20 days to break something valuble, and most of those things can be fixed with a reasonably good chance.

 

Of course, if you train like crazy, you will break more stuff, which is normal.

[caecus]

I don't know if players like me have been accounted for in your statistics but I haven't trained (normally on feros) ever since this post came out.

[Ateh]

if it does, then the cost of other items, mainly armor, should change too.

 

I agree that the cost of armor should change, the price should go up. Theres not a sodding chance that armor is going to go down in price.

 

Yes more armor is going to break, so that means more production needed, and yet there wont be enough EFE ( unless someone starts paying $ @ the shoppe ) to make them all. So in effect, armor price cant really go down because EFE are going to be in such great demand the price of them is probably going to go up again. More expensive EFE = more expensive armor.

 

Lastly, I dont know where everyones been for the past 6 months but have you not seen the trend for getting high armors out of the game ? What do you think all the NDD's were for ? Why was the EFE rate dropped ( aparently ) . If anything im surprised it has taken this long to increase the break rates.

 

Im going now, to go and make a shit load of steel chains.

 

* edit * fixed quotes

Edited April 22, 2008 by Ateh

[kl4Uz]

I stopped training too (from almost nothing to nothing). I think I will just go back to low level monsters. Sure less exp, but I don't need armour and I hardly need to restore etc. Actually I did have fun with orcs today. The exp is not worth anything of course, but you do get some items etc.

[Entropy]

I don't know if players like me have been accounted for in your statistics but I haven't trained (normally on feros) ever since this post came out.

 

And because of people like you, I am very reluctant to make the changes I said earlier in this thread (decrease the break rate a little).

[Dannus(Swe)]

Those breakrates are insane. Degraded 2 greaves+ cuisses in 2 days I believe. Along with some training stuff and else its really expensive. Hopes for this to be changed in some way, I mean it is already a lot of hard work to lvl a/d high, does not need to be made to a torture.

This certainly does not help the pk grow either, I already started stay away more from pk to train with cheap stuff.

 

This also makes it even worse for really high lvled people to go on training. I mean at yetis ur insane if u train in aug leather and stuff.

 

No offense, just thinking the advantages of this does not stay stronger than the disadvantages.

[Tempest]

at yetis? did u ever see how much yetis hit? people will get owned xD

[Dannus(Swe)]

Yeah Im fought yeti they deal great damage, but for high lvl its possible with more decent phsy/vitality/instinct than I have. (I know I dont dodge a single hit yet so no need to mention);D.

 

(Great reason why high lvls don't train yetis often is because of alot of reseting). They give decent gold so the amount of hes/srs/aes needed when fightning them could even out if the armor would not break so much.

[masterpiter]

Edit: Whats wrong with being an all arounder?

Nothing as long as its not required for fighting/pking

[WiseOwl]

I dont think it was necessary to change the way they break because,

To hurt someone in armor you hit the armor,

If the armor is strong enough to repel the hit then it should not break,

If the hit gets trough the armor then it must have been quite a strong hit,

So if it does get through there should be a chance to break.

I have two suggestions to fix this situation:

- Revert to before the update

or

- If players hit is absorbed maybe the breakage rate should be 0.5% and if it gets through 5%

 

Just my opinion, My alts never gonna go training/pking until its fixed.

[Entropy]

Just my opinion, My alts never gonna go training/pking until its fixed.

 

Actually, the fix was already in my test server, but when I hear comments like yours (and similar others before you), it makes me sooo unwilling to do it, that I will not even bother implementing it.

[Cruella]

I'd say an element of luck does play a big role here, as well as a bit of training strategy (namely TS'ing less). Just an example:

 

- just after update I went training on ogres (NMT, degrade astro +780 at the start, TS -19/-9. In 2 hours I have degraded CoL (repaired later), lost steel shield and 5 pairs of aug pants (iirc)

 

- today (after reading this post) I went training on ogres as well (NMT, degrade astro + 400 at the start, TS -19/-4). In 2 hours I have lost just 2 pairs of aug. pants, which is totally acceptable

 

Before the update there were days I was losing 2 pairs of steel greaves under same circumstances

Edited April 22, 2008 by Cruella

[Khalai]

Just my opinion, My alts never gonna go training/pking until its fixed.

 

Actually, the fix was already in my test server, but when I hear comments like yours (and similar others before you), it makes me sooo unwilling to do it, that I will not even bother implementing it.

 

But then you will also punish those, who remain silent and not bitch or moan, which doesn't seem fair, at least not to me.

[bkc56]

Actually, the fix was already in my test server...

Is (was?) the fix a simple adjustment to the break rate/%, or is it one of the more complex changes you (or others) proposed above? It might help to calm the lemmings (err, people) down if they knew which fix you were considering implementing.

[Entropy]

Well, how do you suggest punishing only those who bitched?

[bkc56]

Well, how do you suggest punishing only those who bitched?

Methods you've used before include a 1-day/week/month/year forum ban, or a 1-day/week/month game ban. You have also used gc fines for some things in the past.

 

The only caution would be to clearly state the penalties in advance (in the forum rules perhaps) so that no one can say they weren't warned.

 

The one danger is the fine line between expressing opinion and "bitching" and which side people are judged to be on with their posts.

 

 

Edit: one other penality could be to ban people to the PK server for a period of time. One good thread like this one and the problem of to few people on the PK server would be solved.

Edited April 22, 2008 by bkc56

[Entropy]

Actually, the fix was already in my test server...

Is (was?) the fix a simple adjustment to the break rate/%, or is it one of the more complex changes you (or others) proposed above? It might help to calm the lemmings (err, people) down if they knew which fix you were considering implementing.

 

It was one of the slightly more complex ones, where the armor would have a chance to break only if the damage it took was more than half of the armor rating.

But it's pretty easy to revert back to the previous code.

[Wizzy]

This could be a case of perception..If you think there is a much bigger chance something bad will happen, the more you see/hear bad things happening. I havent seen much difference in augmented gear/steel chains sheilds breaking. Only because I alwyas bring 2 or more sets with me to train as I expect them to break. I am certain radu wants to find a balance and we should let those that see all the logs and have all the information to decide. Small changes in break rates/enriched essces should probably not be posted on forums to let us Bitch and worry about. Lets face it...It is fear of the unknown that we are all complaing, whinning, bitching about. And unless we see the information in logs as teh god sees, we really are all just farting in the wind.

[conavar]

Well, how do you suggest punishing only those who bitched?

 

You cant, but as far as I see it, you are also punishing the manuers,potion makers, crafters and the game itself.

 

If things are to bad then people wont train in high end armours or pk , so in the long run less armour will be broken ,less potions , he's , diss rings , cols etc will be used. so in the end everyone suffers, and add to that less rost's lost from lack of fighting and it all adds up.

 

We all know fighting is the least profitable skill ingame ,if any profit at all tbh ( I might be wrong, but I would think fighting accounts for most of the items bought from the EL shop as well) ,

but its also the mainstream of what the economy is based on.. most items ingame are used for fighting, make that activity to expensive and the other skills lose there market.

 

 

That might sound like a moan but honestly its not

[Lorlen]

Well, how do you suggest punishing only those who bitched?

 

Oh, they need punishing?

 

In real life if your taxes are suddenly raised people will complain. Not everyone, probably not knowing the full facts and probably wrongly, but they will do it. Something has changed that they can quickly and obviously see the negative effects on themselves. Only a few will be able to look past the immediate, what did you expect here?

 

I mean surely by now you must go into this kind of thing expecting this reaction. In any online game all changes are met with a degree of hostility, yet this is the only one where I have known it to negatively affect the game. You expect everyone who plays this to be different from the majority of humans in a situation like this? o.O

 

I myself don't care what happens either way, I know I can adapt, as can everyone else here when it settles down.

 

I don't see why you havn't made a rule against complaining about new updates until at least a couple of days have passed. Threads/posts made should be deleted and the perpetrator banned, simple enough.

Edited April 22, 2008 by Lorlen

[marack]

Breakage has a purpose...so does failure rates...Its the economy stupid!!

 

Once a final product (in this case armour) has been created in the game it has to degrade and/or eventually be removed from the game to create future demands so others can fill.

 

If a player chooses to fight train with a yeti and risk degrading or breaking his/her armour is a risk assumed. If you dont like the risk dont fight the yeti.

 

I appreciate the fact that Ent has already been considering this issue but maybe its too late...

[Entropy]

Ok, let us look at some other day, before the evil changes came:

Wed Apr 16 00:51:21 2008 Player Rehdon lost a Short Bow

Wed Apr 16 01:11:28 2008 Player Chosen lost a Short Bow

Wed Apr 16 01:23:56 2008 Player Hecklar lost a Titanium Shield

Wed Apr 16 01:45:52 2008 Player Nico__ociN lost a Iron Greave

Wed Apr 16 02:33:37 2008 Player Ottawa lost a Medallion of Life

Wed Apr 16 02:45:54 2008 Player Ihsahn lost a Medallion of Life

Wed Apr 16 03:21:50 2008 Player Tyrannis lost a Iron Cuisses

Wed Apr 16 03:26:12 2008 Player jake22 lost a Cape of The Unbreakable

Wed Apr 16 03:32:19 2008 Player Ilse lost a Titanium Plate Mail

Wed Apr 16 03:45:18 2008 Player hop lost a Used Titanium Shield

Wed Apr 16 04:10:34 2008 Player Hatch lost a Crown of Life

Wed Apr 16 04:19:25 2008 Player BONKA lost a Sun Medallion

Wed Apr 16 04:26:46 2008 Player Ozmondius lost a Crown of Life

Wed Apr 16 04:31:05 2008 Player bugabear lost a Used Titanium Greave

Wed Apr 16 04:31:08 2008 Player bigsimp lost a Cape of The Unbreakable

Wed Apr 16 04:54:04 2008 Player Normidore lost a Titanium Shield

Wed Apr 16 04:57:14 2008 Player Struth lost a Damaged Iron Greave

Wed Apr 16 05:06:44 2008 Player Isa lost a Steel Two Edged Sword

Wed Apr 16 05:13:28 2008 Player knight lost a Crown of Life

Wed Apr 16 05:36:14 2008 Player Normidore lost a Medallion of Life

Wed Apr 16 06:00:16 2008 Player reaperabb lost a Frying Pan

Wed Apr 16 07:30:42 2008 Player warthog lost a Short Bow

Wed Apr 16 08:42:27 2008 Player milu lost a Crown of Life

Wed Apr 16 09:55:38 2008 Player Tilda lost a Fast Regeneration Cape

Wed Apr 16 10:05:55 2008 Player Zenphon lost a Iron Greave

Wed Apr 16 10:57:49 2008 Player Angler lost a Mirror Cloak

Wed Apr 16 11:09:09 2008 Player vikto lost a Iron Greave

Wed Apr 16 11:09:19 2008 Player Zalbo lost a Used Steel Cuisses

Wed Apr 16 11:18:31 2008 Player Silesian lost a Iron Plate Mail

Wed Apr 16 11:45:18 2008 Player Tilda lost a Medallion of Life

Wed Apr 16 11:49:47 2008 Player AlpArslaN lost a Titanium Plate Mail

Wed Apr 16 14:41:35 2008 Player Antonios lost a Short Bow

Wed Apr 16 15:24:17 2008 Player Gretha lost a Short Bow

Wed Apr 16 15:43:43 2008 Player Desweer lost a Fast Regeneration Cape

Wed Apr 16 17:48:55 2008 Player baddude lost a Used Titanium Cuisses

Wed Apr 16 18:28:16 2008 Player RAT14 lost a Titanium Greave

Wed Apr 16 19:13:53 2008 Player NAHTEPA lost a Titanium Plate Mail

Wed Apr 16 19:29:29 2008 Player Smrttr lost a Short Bow

Wed Apr 16 19:36:01 2008 Player RAT14 lost a Mirror Cloak

Wed Apr 16 19:57:28 2008 Player nipsyrussel lost a Short Bow

Wed Apr 16 20:14:30 2008 Player Creedka lost a Short Bow

Wed Apr 16 20:22:24 2008 Player Regins lost a Bronze Sword

Wed Apr 16 20:35:14 2008 Player Surojit lost a Steel Two Edged Sword

Wed Apr 16 21:02:11 2008 Player conavar lost a Crown of Life

Wed Apr 16 21:16:56 2008 Player Steinbeisser lost a Steel Two Edged Sword

Wed Apr 16 21:35:38 2008 Player panzerfaust lost a Steel Greave

Wed Apr 16 22:02:49 2008 Player TempesT lost a Mirror Cloak

Wed Apr 16 22:04:19 2008 Player Itzalan lost a Iron Cuisses

Wed Apr 16 22:04:49 2008 Player Gerbildart lost a Steel Plate Mail

Wed Apr 16 22:11:37 2008 Player Kornholio lost a Mirror Cloak

Wed Apr 16 22:23:14 2008 Player newhope lost a Bronze Sword

Wed Apr 16 22:33:17 2008 Player Marr lost a Steel Plate Mail

Wed Apr 16 22:35:18 2008 Player Marc lost a Titanium Serpent Sword

Wed Apr 16 22:40:11 2008 Player Placid lost a Short Bow

Wed Apr 16 23:24:59 2008 Player LeoI lost a Crown of Life

Wed Apr 16 23:52:33 2008 Player Dopee lost a Steel Greave

Wed Apr 16 23:55:07 2008 Player TooMass lost a Titanium Plate Mail

As you can notice, not a huge difference (slightly less items, but that's to be expected, since the change was done with the purpose to affect those who would never break armors)

 

In real life if your taxes are suddenly raised people will complain. Not everyone, probably not knowing the full facts and probably wrongly, but they will do it. Something has changed that they can quickly and obviously see the negative effects on themselves. Only a few will be able to look past the immediate, what did you expect here?

 

Hmm, in my ignorance I expected the people to STFU or say "Thank you!" after I told them I will take a look at their problem. But they didn't, still kept bitching and bitching, even after I proposed a fix.

[extrapolation]

For what it's worth, i train on cyclops in human 0 gear so i get beaten around a fair bit and break loads of stuff anyway, and haven't noticed any difference since the update.

 

Am I right in thinking that this update only makes a difference at those times when you don't get defense exp but you don't get hurt either?

 

As long as measures have been/will be taken to decrease the likelihood of something much weaker than you breaking your armour, I see little to complain about (except that fighters/Pkers are always poor, but it was already an issue, and there's a different thread about that).