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Sir_Exeus

change TD back to normal...

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MD stops a bear/tiger from MD/cd too, just incase u didnt know.

the MD/cooldown effect of animals comes from them having mana, once u drained em they won't do anything.

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When iron plate etc.. were the best items in game they were expensive too, especially titanium serp, so I don't see any difference between now and then allowing the best armors and weapons to be used.

Iron plate were used for show off and by p2p n00bs so pr0s can kill them faster on pvp with thermal, it has big negatives when fighting vs thermal, if u were pr0 u pked in tit chain+ leathers which were quite cheap( tit chain didnt even need efe in the old times, and iron pl8 needed 1 efe :lurker: )

 

Don't lie :)

 

Best pker went in naked with tit long and a few HE/SR, came out with full suit of tit chain/serp, leather pants/boots, mirror, moon med and iron helm :(

 

Naked PKing was teh win ^^

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I didn't think the armor was too expensive but I guess you are referring to the titanium serpent sword and not the titanium serpent of thermal. I don't know if more than a couple players had one but I thought that was the big ticket item back then. The equipment today does take more time to manufacture, by far than the old school gear, which is before the price even arrives. I don't see how you could work an armor/weapon restriction into the map but I think pretty much everyone agrees that the JSoC does not belong in TD or at least it should provide only 1 second of cooldown.

 

I have been hit by JSoC in TD, on NDD of course, and it sucks even then. I don't think anyone wants to face one in that map. If they can change the armor availability in the map give it a try. I think Entropy should do a poll. If he can implement an armor/weapon restriction to the map then the poll would be voting for having that or having rostos work there. If he cannot implement the armor/weapon restriction then fix JSoC effect and vote to see if people want rostos there or make it normal PK again. Changing it was in response to player request in the first place right? Everyone wanted an oldschool PK map. If it isn't going to work then change it back due to player request.

 

Tirun

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I didn't think the armor was too expensive but I guess you are referring to the titanium serpent sword and not the titanium serpent of thermal. I don't know if more than a couple players had one but I thought that was the big ticket item back then. The equipment today does take more time to manufacture, by far than the old school gear, which is before the price even arrives. I don't see how you could work an armor/weapon restriction into the map but I think pretty much everyone agrees that the JSoC does not belong in TD or at least it should provide only 1 second of cooldown.

 

I have been hit by JSoC in TD, on NDD of course, and it sucks even then. I don't think anyone wants to face one in that map. If they can change the armor availability in the map give it a try. I think Entropy should do a poll. If he can implement an armor/weapon restriction to the map then the poll would be voting for having that or having rostos work there. If he cannot implement the armor/weapon restriction then fix JSoC effect and vote to see if people want rostos there or make it normal PK again. Changing it was in response to player request in the first place right? Everyone wanted an oldschool PK map. If it isn't going to work then change it back due to player request.

 

Tirun

 

 

Would certanly be differnt wouldnt it? :P:)

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I just realized something. Do titanium chains even drop anymore? Even if they do isn't it really rare? Now that titanium chain needs an EFE if you were doing armor restrictions would anyone where even those? Would you wind up with a map full of PKers in steel chain using titanium short swords? If old school PK was all about fighting in trash gear wouldn't that be how far back things would regress since EFEs are basically store items these days? Who would waste EFEs on items for old school PK when you still need them for uber gear for regular PK and fighting dragons and stuff?

 

I don't see how it can be old school if rostos work. If it goes back to armor and weapons that don't need EFEs then is it really going to be what PKers are asking for or not? I think my idea of putting in a poll to see which of these two things players want is the best solution and then Entropy can tell us how the chosen idea needs to change to work or if we can actually have it the way it is. :P

 

Tirun

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I've never been hit by jsoc but can't it be countered by some magic protection? At least it works for tigers if I'm right...

The magic immunity spell does work to stop white tigers cooling you down, it does not work against JSoC.

 

He said magic protection, not immunity. And the answer is yes.

 

Anyway, the map will remain as is, as a reminder to the: "Omfg, the rostos/cooldown/blah/blah" ruined the PKing.

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afaik Magic protection only lowers the chances, not offering a complete assurance like the magic immunity spell does VS tigers.

 

Anyway, the map will remain as is, as a reminder to the: "Omfg, the rostos/cooldown/blah/blah" ruined the PKing.

:D

 

...i certainly never said that... i hope the people who did realise that perhaps they dont have the foresight they think they do.

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Anyway, the map will remain as is, as a reminder to the: "Omfg, the rostos/cooldown/blah/blah" ruined the PKing.

:(

 

...i certainly never said that... i hope the people who did realise that perhaps they dont have the foresight they think they do.

I said that and the " blah/blah " r imho expensive weapons and armors that still can be used on "oldschool pk map", same like over 20 seconds cooldown can be done to ur enemy coz of jsoc there :)

 

U had true oldschool pking on pk server and it was crazy fun for me there, 1st month of pk server gave me more fun than 1 year on main server when it came to pking :P

2nd month wasnt that good coz almost no1 played there anymore but thats another story :D

 

 

mp

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afaik Magic protection only lowers the chances, not offering a complete assurance like the magic immunity spell does VS tigers.

 

Anyway, the map will remain as is, as a reminder to the: "Omfg, the rostos/cooldown/blah/blah" ruined the PKing.

:P

 

...i certainly never said that... i hope the people who did realise that perhaps they dont have the foresight they think they do.

 

I said it too, as would the majority of old pkers I think :D

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Anyway, the map will remain as is, as a reminder to the: "Omfg, the rostos/cooldown/blah/blah" ruined the PKing.

 

As the games owner its certainly your prerogative to leave the map how you choose, but IMO the only thing another unused map does in the long run is hurt the game itself.

 

TBH everyone needs to stop looking at the past through rose tinted glasses, the game and its items have moved on.PK is never going to be the same as it was 2-3 years ago, and it will maybe be differant again in another 2-3 years.

 

So lets look to the future and not the past. Lets all try and work together for that future

 

*Gets off soapbox* :D

 

Edit: IMO with a little thought and change TD could be a great map for pker's and normal players alike.. but since its not going to be changed I wont go into them

Edited by conavar

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Anyway, the map will remain as is, as a reminder to the: "Omfg, the rostos/cooldown/blah/blah" ruined the PKing.

 

As the games owner its certainly your prerogative to leave the map how you choose, but IMO the only thing another unused map does in the long run is hurt the game itself.

 

TBH everyone needs to stop looking at the past through rose tinted glasses, the game and its items have moved on.PK is never going to be the same as it was 2-3 years ago, and it will maybe be differant again in another 2-3 years.

 

I don't give up very easily because I think this is a great game and I want what is best for it. This thread shows I am happy to help PKers when it helps the game. I can use the PK maps too if the drops go up but eventually I will reset and not be able to do it anymore for a very long time. I might even go the ranger/mage or ranger/summoner route and never be able to take advantage of it after my harvest reset. I am started this thread and I am posting in it to help other players because they need it.

 

Entropy,

 

Leaving the map exactly as it is as a punitive measure will probably make it even less used than it is now. If all of the fighters stop going then it will mean monster magnetism and HBags will make TD the new mixer heaven in EL. No risk, using fruit, 1 second cooldown. Not good for the game in any way. Don't forget all of the posting about rostos ruining PK. Make a point that lasts for anyone who wants to complain about changes you are making. You can't let the past control the future. Hurting the game to make sure people don't forget they were wrong is not going to brighten ELs future. It is not only limiting the useful space you have for players in game but it is also really, really, really bad PR.

 

My suggestion is to take the advice on fixing the map or change it back and not have old school PK anymore. I think fixing it is better since a lot of people like fighting in TD. If you really want to make a point about people running off at the mouth when they don't see the whole picture then do something that doesn't hurt the game. Make every single player on the forum who said, "Omfg, the rostos/cooldown/blah/blah" ruined the PKing.", post on an apology thread and pin it at the top of general and the suggestions sections. Doing this will give you a link you can use every single time someone tries to scream at you that what you are doing is ruining stuff.

 

IMO this would give you an easier time of squashing the fights you have when trying to change things. This would show everyone that you are far more aware of what is going to happen and how it will effect the game then anyone else is. This will show everyone that you can tweak mistakes that are suggested by players into something they want instead of what they asked for in the first place. All in all I would say that fixing TD and making the apology thread would be a massive boon for EL not just for the present but also for the future as changes continue to be made. Why hurt the game when you don't have to?

 

Tirun

 

PS Please increase drops in PK as suggested too. :D

Edited by TirunCollimdus

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I think the problem with TD is the huge gap in a/d. Few years

ago, top 200 were like 50s or 60s or so iirc. Today, 100s or so,

and near 120s for top 100. Meaning that the risk a person takes

relative to their level is skewed towards the high level end. Lower

players would have to risk more armor and weapon, while higher

level players could go in naked to check nor low level fighters

with no risks other than losing some pki.

 

Instead of changing back to normal TD, perhaps you could consider

having the map do a linear transformation onto the atk/def lvl so

that the levels of all players are near equal.

 

One possible transformation is using a natural logtransformation.

Reasons why this one was chosen because it is not a straight line

and is increasing monotonically, no higher level player will have

a lower a/d compared to someone with a lower base a/d.

 

I recommend the formula 15*ln(atk) and likewise 15*ln(def).

This will result in a mean of lvl 66.87 with a standard deviation

of 10.48. The lower level players will have an increase in a/d

while the higher level players will drop in a/d, but will be no lower

than those with a low a/d base level.

 

In particular, players between

levels 40 and 170 will range between 55 to 77 after the transformation.

With these levels, it would be more managable with low level armors.

Using a constant instead of 15, but with 20 also yield a good

interval too, namely 74 to 103 a/d for a base level of 40 to 170 a/d.

 

If this were to be done to a/d, then what's the point of training?

invasion monsters, and hunting for good drop, and also for those

who are racing for top ranking, safety to hydro mining and other pk maps,

monster ignore, etc.

 

any conflicts?

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I would be in favor of the weapon limitation, but not the rosto and @lesbegue--Oo? I could have sworn there was a reason i trained my butt off, but maybe not.

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@ Lesbegue

 

IMO it wouldnt work, why would players who have trained hard for there levels purposely handicap themselves ?

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Why is it so hard to make a map were it judges combat levels. Like you can only fight somone with in 10 combat lvl's or so of you. Seems easy.

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You guys have great points and i cannot disagree fully on any of them. As far as reducing strength (a/d) goes, kf would still remain the same and oz can own kf as it is right now with normal a/d; however oz, if you train hard to own td as it is right now, then i might not be able to discuss it fully with you since i dont visit td much to know its circumstances other than listening about people's discussions.

 

but if td were to change the a/d, then pk in td would involve strategies and number of people you can organize instead of maximizing level. would just introduce a different aspect to pk as of right now, well the a/d cap arenas are similar just that not everyone can get involved. however, oa still own so training would still have some form of payoff.

 

This suggestion is just a way for everyone to have a chance to be involved in pk since there had been complaints lately about how capped arenas are limiting/separating pk, etc. So for this case, instead of capping the pk zones and have several different arenas, everyone could just have similar a/d and be possible to fight everyone without dying too fast. Of course involvement in such condition is solely under the consent of the pkers and no one should be forced to take part.

 

conavar, people who are stronger would still be stronger, just a smaller gap. and yes they wouldnt handicap themself to get killed, but it would offer them a choice, kf or td. so i hope that once in a while people would choose to handicap themself, by level but not so much relative to others, just to have some fights in td, hopefully as a group thing. but then i do understand that it is not the most pleasant experience to get killed by someone who hasnt trained as much as you (no one in particular).

 

i honestly think td is a bit too far from convenient storages too unlike kf, but this is out of the discussion.

 

So do you guys agree with me that people dont pk because of the a/d gap, considering all the testings that radu had put efforts into improving pk, just to mention a few: td no cooldown, capped arena, the testing of 4 newbies in pro armor, the no rost in td, etc? or do you guys think it's other reasons such as no pk if cant own or just the natural result of players we are attracting?

 

anyways thx very much for reading and paying attention.

 

[edit]: not to mention referencing to dpa pkers to conavar as to why might've someone sell character to completely go to a lvl lower than 60 a/d; but i'm not a good resource for the reason that's why i had to refer to people at dpa such as chosen and others who did the same.

Edited by Lesbegue

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So do you guys agree with me that people dont pk because of the a/d gap, considering all the testings that radu had put efforts into improving pk, just to mention a few: td no cooldown, capped arena, the testing of 4 newbies in pro armor, the no rost in td, etc? or do you guys think it's other reasons such as no pk if cant own or just the natural result of players we are attracting?

 

 

Personally I believe its because people dont like risking items/ros too often..No drop day mass pking is my evidence for this observation.

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So do you guys agree with me that people dont pk because of the a/d gap, considering all the testings that radu had put efforts into improving pk, just to mention a few: td no cooldown, capped arena, the testing of 4 newbies in pro armor, the no rost in td, etc? or do you guys think it's other reasons such as no pk if cant own or just the natural result of players we are attracting?

 

 

Personally I believe its because people dont like risking items/ros too often..No drop day mass pking is my evidence for this observation.

 

If I am to guess the reasons I would agree with Peywacket. It's the only conlusion from all the PK related threads in forums.

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changing td back to normal won't help at all imo, pretty much any suggestion about pk didn't help.

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All the pk problems are from people who wish to pk and complain about pk being dead spend all their time in forums doing this:

 

cry%20baby.gif

 

Instead of this:

 

swordfight-think-first.jpg

 

:evilgrin:

 

*goes back to mining*

 

S.

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So do you guys agree with me that people dont pk because of the a/d gap, considering all the testings that radu had put efforts into improving pk, just to mention a few: td no cooldown, capped arena, the testing of 4 newbies in pro armor, the no rost in td, etc? or do you guys think it's other reasons such as no pk if cant own or just the natural result of players we are attracting?

 

 

Personally I think it is down to alot of differant reasons which is why it is so hard to find a fix

 

Im am not going to say PK is dead, PK is only as dead as us players let it be, so in that respect the ball is in our court.

 

But I will list a few things IMO are problems with PK ( they might be right or they might be wrong, so feel free to disagree):

 

1 ) Cost of dying:

 

Rostos' are expensive and while people might be able to afford the odd one or two, once they have used them its back to harving etc to make more funds to replace them.

Which is why PK is full on NDD, it doesnt matter if you die 10-20 times within a day (its a cost free death)

 

2 ) Players Perception of PK

 

I think to some players who dont PK it has a stigma attached to it, of being all ebul, backstabbing and flaming, but TBH it is nothing like that. Personally IMO everyone should try PK at least once, even if it is on the test server with a bunch of friends (no risk ), it is actually alot less ebul and more fun than some players think. But if people have tried it and still dont like it then fare play to them, that is there choice which they are entitled to.

 

3 ) Senseless N00b Killing

 

Many a time I have seen in WSA/NCA two low level players (35 hp) bashing away at each others leather armour with iron sword, just for some pr0 to come in 1hit kill them and leave ... ermm WHY ? is it fun ? is it proving a point ?

Seriously these new players are potential future PKer's, dont put them off PK or the game in general by being dicks . leave them in peace to have there fun.

 

4 ) Arena's and Ts Pots

 

The arena idea of giving players a feel for PK without being jumped by high levels all the time was a great idea on paper, but it has kinda backfired a bit. It has taken away players incentive to level past the first arena, which is why you have DPA and NC/KF and all the other arena's are unused.

 

TS Pots exaggerate this problem by A ) letting players stay at an arena longer than they should b ) overbalancing the arena away from the intended target, those extra 19 a/d levels are a big differance in OA levels and hence pickpoints compared to who should be using the arena.

 

note: This is not a knock at DPA players, I can fully understand why they do it and in a way I dont blame them

 

Im sure there are players who feel there are other problems such as .. to many guild allies/friends, uber items etc

 

 

@ TD

 

TBH no rosto's in TD idea was doomed from the start, the fundemental problem being, players want drops..... aslong as its no there items that are being dropped

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