Potential Outlaws.

[frogimus]

OK, but what about the "spamming" archers? I just recently started playing again and decided to wander around farming fox/wolf/deer in NW DP. Wanted the ing's for resuming my Summoning. I noticed many animals wandering around with missing HP, never saw anyone around so i started bagging them. Eventually ran upon a ranger and realized that was the one wounding everything.

 

So what's the etiquette here? If the critter is in their range circle, it remains their spawn, but if it goes outside that range and they don't follow then it is fair game? Can/do they claim squatters rights on 8-10 animals at once?

 

Not flaming or bashing Rangers - they have as much right to a spawn as anyone else.

[Sayre]

OK, but what about the "spamming" archers? I just recently started playing again and decided to wander around farming fox/wolf/deer in NW DP. Wanted the ing's for resuming my Summoning. I noticed many animals wandering around with missing HP, never saw anyone around so i started bagging them. Eventually ran upon a ranger and realized that was the one wounding everything.

 

So what's the etiquette here? If the critter is in their range circle, it remains their spawn, but if it goes outside that range and they don't follow then it is fair game? Can/do they claim squatters rights on 8-10 animals at once?

 

Not flaming or bashing Rangers - they have as much right to a spawn as anyone else.

 

This is precicely what I meant by a series of discrete (I mean this in the mathematical sense, like "individual, segregated, apart") engagements. Some will argue that once the arrow hits a target, that target is forever the archers to dispose of, others will say that once the arrow has done its damage, the critter is up for grabs again as noone is actually engaging it. It will be a tough one for the community to be consistent with.

 

S.

[Aislinn]

OK, but what about the "spamming" archers? I just recently started playing again and decided to wander around farming fox/wolf/deer in NW DP. Wanted the ing's for resuming my Summoning. I noticed many animals wandering around with missing HP, never saw anyone around so i started bagging them. Eventually ran upon a ranger and realized that was the one wounding everything.

 

So what's the etiquette here? If the critter is in their range circle, it remains their spawn, but if it goes outside that range and they don't follow then it is fair game? Can/do they claim squatters rights on 8-10 animals at once?

 

Not flaming or bashing Rangers - they have as much right to a spawn as anyone else.

I think that an archer is entitled to "claim" one creature even if it wanders about. Remember, an archer has to let it wander a bit in order to maintain enough distance to shoot at it. No, an archer should not lay claim to more, that's just rude. Sure we will shoot at other creatures that cross our paths as well if the situation is right, but archers should "give them back" when another player shows up.

[Drain]

As I see it:

 

1: If an archer is training in an area and is just standing there, or moving around a little wounding all enemies that come into sight, then the last enemy they shot, they claim. If they change their target to another, instead of chasing the one they just shot down, then their claim on the previous enemy is lost.

 

2: If you wander in an area and there are lots of wounded enemies, then watch out for arrows whizzing by you toward their target, and attack anything you wish. (except, of course the target the arrows were after) If you then happen across the archer, refer to #1.

 

3: When you're in an area with an archer, I think it's always good to give them a little time to see if they're trying to chase down an enemy, or moving for another target, or etc...

 

4: About bags, ...I do think something needs to be done for archery. When you do kill a monster, you do claim that bag, other wise (in melee) why would your character immediately and automatically step onto that bag and open it? I'm meaning immediately after the kill, not killing it, then walking off, then coming back about claiming it. For people currently using archery, should they be in a populated place, or should someone else just happens along, they usually will not have enough time to get to the bag that was dropped from the enemy they just killed. Of course, until something is done about this, if something is going to be done, you can always do what was suggested before, by peino, and bring a friend with them to protect/collect the bags for them, or train in relatively unpopulated areas.

 

I think I covered everything I was going to cover... If not, I'm sure someone will point out something I missed. ^_^

Edited April 7, 2008 by Drain

[Troger]

As i see this thing, the archer should train on spots that are not frecvently used by a/d trainers.

The bag that the killed monster drops is definetly the property of the archer, offcourse if he killed it.

[Raz]

One thing I have noticed...

 

If you are training on multiple creatures, and someone shoots one of them, then eventually, the monster will flee and go after the archer. This means that the trainer loses out as he is unable to chase the one that fled.

[Maslicka]

multiple creatures arent important...important is just multicombat map so he can shoot monster :/

[XenaMT]

Such a fuss...

I was happily beating up cycs in EP yesterday and the spawns were all over the shop. For awhile I was down in the southeast killing cycs while an archer tried putting out it's one remaining eye with arrows. Did it disengage from time to time? Sure. Did I get a little less exp per cyc? Sure. Did I mind? No way. Seemed like a good situation for the archer as I just kept a nice immobile target for them to fire away at. I wandered away for strays after a bit, and returned later where said archer was joined by another and while I attacked a cyc, 2nd archer took exception to this by stating "ffs". Obviously not keen on the situation like archer numero uno (guess they were using the LabRat 2-person technique), I left them the bag with 18gc to buy 1.8 more arrows and searched elsewhere.

Let common sense dictate and there are no problems - plenty of maps out there people, but sharing is ok too, yes? And for the record, most of these situations will most likely not even be an issue in a few weeks when archery has lost it's novelty/people are broke/Ent has his castle.

 

 

[Aislinn]

Such a fuss...

I was happily beating up cycs in EP yesterday and the spawns were all over the shop. For awhile I was down in the southeast killing cycs while an archer tried putting out it's one remaining eye with arrows. Did it disengage from time to time? Sure. Did I get a little less exp per cyc? Sure. Did I mind? No way. Seemed like a good situation for the archer as I just kept a nice immobile target for them to fire away at. I wandered away for strays after a bit, and returned later where said archer was joined by another and while I attacked a cyc, 2nd archer took exception to this by stating "ffs". Obviously not keen on the situation like archer numero uno (guess they were using the LabRat 2-person technique), I left them the bag with 18gc to buy 1.8 more arrows and searched elsewhere.

Let common sense dictate and there are no problems - plenty of maps out there people, but sharing is ok too, yes? And for the record, most of these situations will most likely not even be an issue in a few weeks when archery has lost it's novelty/people are broke/Ent has his castle.

 

 

Not quite how it happened, but whatever. You were whacking every cyc in sight, no matter who was trying to fight it. When you latched onto my cyc, i went to another. Eventually enough is enough, hence the "ffs". Yes we were trying to do the 2 archer monkey in the middle thing, obviously you could see that yet you still went after them. Sharing is good, but not on those terms you described. Just pick a cyc and stay with it and let others do the same. I didn't want your cyc, just the one I was already working on.

[Aphistolas]

Hi, just a quick question: Does it even matter what animal you train on? I thought there was no EXP increase/decrease depending on what you hit...

[Sayre]

Hi, just a quick question: Does it even matter what animal you train on? I thought there was no EXP increase/decrease depending on what you hit...

 

I'll take this one.

 

I am noting that I get better xp at night, when the shooting conditions are more adverse. Cyclops are a high visibility monster, which means you can seem them from further away at night. So shooting cyclops seems to give me better xp than shooting, say leopards, because I can shoot them from further away.

 

S.

[Aislinn]

The bag that the killed monster drops is definetly the property of the archer, offcourse if he killed it.

I'm not sure I agree with this, the more I play with this skill. I think it is set up correctly as is, with the bag as a free for all. Why? Because that is the price you pay for being able to safely attack an otherwise unattackable creature from far away without being attacked in return.

[frogimus]

I guess a lot of it comes down to people communicating with each other. Even if you can't see an archer around the wounded critters, if there is one there they can "hear" you in local. Talk to each other (politely) and some agreement should be easy to come by - whether it's teaming or dividing the territory.

[Cruella]

Training archery requires angelic patience. Since it doesn't clearly indicate which creature you are actually targetting, everyone can come and shoot yours telling "Oh I have killed creature A since I thought you are aiming at B". Another tactics is to stay just one step behind yor visibility range, shooting your creatures and when confronted saying "Oh, I haven't seen you are here" These are just a few dirty archery tricks for spawn serping. The only method I have found to train archery without such interruptions so far is to find a spot that is not that obvious for that goal.

[Fourier]

...

I'm not sure I agree with this, the more I play with this skill. I think it is set up correctly as is, with the bag as a free for all. Why? Because that is the price you pay for being able to safely attack an otherwise unattackable creature from far away without being attacked in return.

 

 

However, I can say the same thing about summons. The summoner is 'attacking' from a safe place, but deserves the bag by normal EL protocol. I think as long as the archer is working 1 spawn, the XPs and bags from that spawn should belong to the archer. Anyone who does not respect that protocol is an spawn jumper or bag jumper, or both. Archery is expensive and time consuming, and the practitioners deserve the fruits of their labor.

[Tempest]

totally agreeing with fourier here... archer or trainer, they both should have the same rights to "claim a spawn".

[Aislinn]

...

I'm not sure I agree with this, the more I play with this skill. I think it is set up correctly as is, with the bag as a free for all. Why? Because that is the price you pay for being able to safely attack an otherwise unattackable creature from far away without being attacked in return.

 

 

However, I can say the same thing about summons. The summoner is 'attacking' from a safe place, but deserves the bag by normal EL protocol. I think as long as the archer is working 1 spawn, the XPs and bags from that spawn should belong to the archer. Anyone who does not respect that protocol is an spawn jumper or bag jumper, or both. Archery is expensive and time consuming, and the practitioners deserve the fruits of their labor.

Well summoners don't automatically land on the bags of their summons' kills either. And I think the jury is still out about whether the summoners deserve those bags. Don't get me wrong, I personally both summon and have taken up the ranging skill. I just see it as part of the price you pay for "safe" attacking to not auto-land on those bags.

[TirunCollimdus]

Never really got into whether summoners deserve their bags or not but I always left them to it. If someone was summoning I just left the area anyway since the summons attack everything in sight. I think they do. Never summoned. lol If this is wrong please let me know. If the summons only go after one creature then it makes it a lot like archery. Summoning is just as expensive in time as archery is in gold coin. If summons and archery both only target one creature at a time then I don't see a difference about how to treat their bags.

 

I wouldn't jump and archer or summoner's bag but I tend to agree that if you are getting to safely kill stuff then it is your responsibility to get the bags not the responsibility of everyone else to stay off of them. Their is just too much confusion about who killed what when players are not actually close enough to get put in danger. Archers can always bring a weapon to finish off their target or just do it with their hands too. As long as we give them the same right to a spawn as anyone else I don't see a problem with this. If they are killing stuff that would pawn them if it wasn't a safe ranged fight then I don't see how they can lay the same claim to bags. You can get money for bows and arrows with lupines so it isn't like they really earned anything. They are just attacking safely something they couldn't normally kill. If they do get the bag then they celebrate because they were lucky to get it.

 

Stuff getting shot at normally takes offense and does something about it. The game is different. You can shoot at anything until you kill it without it attacking yoiu. I think that safety is a good reason not to claim the same ownership as someone risking their stuff.

 

Tirun

[Ateh]

You can get money for bows and arrows with lupines so it isn't like they really earned anything.

 

arrows end up costing alot of money, if someone has the patience to harvest lupines for them saying they havent really earnt anything is a bit off

 

Stuff getting shot at normally takes offense and does something about it. The game is different. You can shoot at anything until you kill it without it attacking yoiu. I think that safety is a good reason not to claim the same ownership as someone risking their stuff.

 

Tirun

 

You obviously havent shot a Yeti in the nuts at close range, or anything for that matter so in fact there IS a chance the creature you attack is going to retaliate. Go and buy a bow and arrow, and test your knowledge on something you cant kill with your bare hands.

 

*edit* My opinion on ranging bags : Ranging is a hard skill to level , just as hard as any other and so I think it is only fair that if you kill a creature the bag should be yours, people who see a ranger should show them the same courtesy they would show anyone else. If the ranger wants the bag of something it has killed, dont jump it just because your closer. Likewise, if the ranger doesnt care and walks away from the bag then its free game isnt it. Its about people taking a 'little' few extra seconds to consider if the person who rightfully killed the creature actually wishes to take the reward.

Edited April 10, 2008 by Ateh

[Aislinn]

Stuff getting shot at normally takes offense and does something about it. The game is different. You can shoot at anything until you kill it without it attacking yoiu. I think that safety is a good reason not to claim the same ownership as someone risking their stuff.

 

Tirun

 

You obviously havent shot a Yeti in the nuts at close range, or anything for that matter so in fact there IS a chance the creature you attack is going to retaliate. Go and buy a bow and arrow, and test your knowledge on something you cant kill with your bare hands.

The whole point is not about close range, duh it will attack you back then, like any monster. Ranging gives you the luxury of shooting from a distance and still doing damage and eventually killing it safely with no attack response. I know, I have been shooting at yeti's for days now, and not a one has attacked back. Your own stupidity if you attack from close range with a bow and arrow.

[Ateh]

aislinn have any of the yetis you have been shooting at any time walked towards you as if they had recognized where the arrow came from ? As far as I can tell ( me using the old standard perspective as my machine wont run on much else ) the only way a creature hasnt noticed i shot it was when it was right at the edge of my viewing distance. I dont know about anyone else but at that distance im lucky to hit anything, so ive found that shooting at a closer ( not right next to it , duh ) range and then walking away has helped me save alot of GC on arrows until I can improve perception.

 

Sorry but what Tirun said is still wrong, creatures will attack you , unless I am just really stupid and im the only person who has ever lost a training arrow from my back?

[Aislinn]

aislinn have any of the yetis you have been shooting at any time walked towards you as if they had recognized where the arrow came from ? As far as I can tell ( me using the old standard perspective as my machine wont run on much else ) the only way a creature hasnt noticed i shot it was when it was right at the edge of my viewing distance. I dont know about anyone else but at that distance im lucky to hit anything, so ive found that shooting at a closer ( not right next to it , duh ) range and then walking away has helped me save alot of GC on arrows until I can improve perception.

 

Sorry but what Tirun said is still wrong, creatures will attack you , unless I am just really stupid and im the only person who has ever lost a training arrow from my back?

Sure they will attack you if you are too close, but there is a BIG range before they go out of your sight that they won't attack you even though they turn and walk to you. Believe me, I'm the biggest wuss in combat and I've done great with them. Archery is a very safe way to attack and not get attacked. I've done it with yeti, cycs, cockatrice, etc. (for some reason i can't hit a fluff if my life depended on it) You just have to practise more and learn your limits one step at a time.

(I"ve lost plenty of arrows and a bow too, but on ferans and leopards and bunnies and polar bears because I don't care if I shoot them from the closest range possible, I know I can "take it". )

[Hex]

Just lost my second bow to ranging on creatures. If they are beyond the "range of recognition" they won't even come near you after you hit them. A little closer, and when you hit them they walk over to you and stand there as if to say "WTH!" A little closer still, and they walk over and start pounding on you. Even with NMT on (although I dunno if it has an effect) and trying to dis as soon as the fight starts, I have lost 2 bows because lag between me clicking and the creature starting to walk towards me puts them in attack range by the time I fire an arrow.

[TirunCollimdus]

aTeh in case you don't know or forgot I happen to live with Icy. I have been watching her level her ranging quite a bit. She occasionally makes a mistake and gets attacked. She isn't fighting yetis though so it isn't a big deal. It it was however she would just bring dis rings. Just so you know I have actually killed yetis with poison/life drain and dis rings. I know exactly what it is like to have monster walk up on you when you are attacking them from range.

 

I never open my mouth unless I know what I am talking about. Aislinn is absolutely correct. If you are using the isometric view then I suggest your bring a ton of dis rings and monster magnetism when you go after high level stuff. Try using the perspective video option but don't turn it all the way up and see if that helps. I don't see how ranging is really going to be possible for you in isometric view unless you have access to mountains of dis rings. You just don't see far enough. Good luck with it. Aislinn's point still stands and I still back it 100%.

 

Tirun

[Ateh]

I never open my mouth unless I know what I am talking about. Aislinn is absolutely correct. If you are using the isometric view then I suggest your bring a ton of dis rings and monster magnetism

 

you told me not so long ago MM was a waste of PP You also told me getting godless was wrong and yet you have the anti social perk ?

really cant be bothered getting into a debate because sooner or later your going to tell me you have 30 years gaming experience and yadda yadda yadda. Needless to say , all I was pointing out is that you CAN get attacked by a creature if you shoot it at close range. Its not difficult to accept man.

 

*edit* fixed quotes

Edited April 11, 2008 by Ateh