Vidriel Report post Posted December 20, 2011 Hello, we were in an instance this evening after the new change and we were 3: me, AitorTillas and TuDaeFadda. TuDae got client crash and we were kicked to IP. He was right back after half minute or so but it was already too late. Instance was finished, we got the message "Instance over, have a nice day!" and Tudae was still on map but no monsters there. Wizzy was trying to help us, but he could only tele out away. He was very nice to teleport us two back for emptying the bag we had inside. Many thanks for it! So here comes a question/suggestion... what with this situation? Not everything can be perfect, this can happen again. Would not saying anything if we loose someone by miss-tele or dying without rosto, only two of us left, we cannot finish - I get it, that's new rule. But this was not our fault... Can a time limit be a little longer (like 5 mins) or should we build bigger teams just because... ? Radu was offline, so we could not discuss it when the problem occurred. At least counter reset would be not bad so we can go again Please note, posting it as reminder as Wizzy can be busy, I am only looking for an answer and maybe warn another instancers. I don't want to start new flame topic, so please: stay back when you got nothing to say. Many thanks, Vidriel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AitorTillas Report post Posted December 20, 2011 Hello, I totaly agree with the last part of Vidriel's post. We undestand that rules change, and for the reason Radu decided, instances can't be made with 2 people from now on. We are trying to offer possible solutions to solve the problem we found ourselfs in. Another possible option that Tuddaefadda propoused, is that the monsters do not spawn if there are less than 3 people in the instance. That will cover the possible problems with a restart of computer/firewall/whatever also. I also want to thank Wizzy for the help he gave us. He took the time to undestand our problem, and tryied to offer a solution. It realy helped a lot! Thx all AitorTillas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TuDaeFadda Report post Posted December 20, 2011 My client display froze in the middle of Aitor casting a restore while tanking an ACW, then I got an error dialog box and the client was terminated. I scrambled to return, but when I did, I was the only person left on the map and #ii was showing 0 monsters. I'd like to request that there be a preventive measure in case a player grues or has client-side trouble. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted December 20, 2011 Instances were NEVER meant to have less than 4 active people. I compromised at 3, exactly because of this. If you go in 3, you risk this happening. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AitorTillas Report post Posted December 21, 2011 Instances were NEVER meant to have less than 4 active people. I compromised at 3, exactly because of this. If you go in 3, you risk this happening. I belibe you have your own reasons to limitate the number of people to at least 3(4) but.... Last week i just found out i can do the 100-120 as tank, with another FIGHTER. i dont have a special build in any way, but we could do it. My a/d gap is 3 levels (normal from training with def god). This morning i saw the sever change and thought: Damn! It was realy amazing and challenging to do 2 man, but well, maybe this was a kind of abuse, so i undestand the rules and the change.... so we went then i a 3 group. Now your are saying but, that we have to go at least 4. I realy dont see the point, specialy considering that was an error in the Game itself. I thought we where following the rules, acting following the new directions and i found out, that NO, We where taking a risk! It can be my mistake also, but i have never seen anywhere that instances where to be made with 4 people (would you have sayed 5.....) Another point.... What happends if we go in a team of 4 and 2 of the people have a client crash? Thx for the time Answering Radu AitorTillas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted December 21, 2011 If you have 4 people, it is much less likely for two to crash at the same time. In case you didn't notice, the number of people to enter is 5. This is how they were designed. The drops were for a team of at least 4-5 people. Not 2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vidriel Report post Posted December 21, 2011 Thanks for answer Entropy, now it's pretty clear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SenZon Report post Posted December 21, 2011 Just make these harder, require more team work. At the moment they are just farmed =\ (should work more like a invance) Add a o monster or tweak one that has like 200 defense, give it ICD so for every person thats fighting gives it the -15 def penalty so if you had 6 people it would have 110 def, make it have 300 def for pro instance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amar Report post Posted December 21, 2011 Add a o monster or tweak one that has like 200 defense, give it ICD so for every person thats fighting gives it the -15 def penalty so if you had 6 people it would have 110 def, make it have 300 def for pro instance no 1 farm pr0 instance with 3 ppl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SenZon Report post Posted December 22, 2011 Add a o monster or tweak one that has like 200 defense, give it ICD so for every person thats fighting gives it the -15 def penalty so if you had 6 people it would have 110 def, make it have 300 def for pro instance no 1 farm pr0 instance with 3 ppl Make it require at LEAST 8 people . . . cause I don't think radu's original idea was to add this to the market "@@3 Buying instance enter 10k gc" or was it radu? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cyrano Report post Posted December 24, 2011 I think making instances harder would prove more difficult for non fighter builds rather than for the instance farmers. Perhaps the instance should pause if it drops below a certain number of players (with perhaps a quit option for the remaining players) rather than kicking everyone out. I don't know whether or not this would require a client update but just an idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littlebro2 Report post Posted January 4, 2012 If you have 4 people, it is much less likely for two to crash at the same time. In case you didn't notice, the number of people to enter is 5. This is how they were designed. The drops were for a team of at least 4-5 people. Not 2. With all due respect, can you honestly say the drops(amount of gc and chance for rare items) hasn't changed since the origination of the 100-120 instance? I understand you have the right to withhold any information like this, but I still ask the question because I think its relevant to the argument of why people want to go with less members. Everyone I have talked to claims the drops for the 100-120 instance have changed significantly since the origination of it. Granted, I haven't been doing them long enough to make this claim myself, but I have done about 30-40 of them since and I will make the claim that the "average" drops are not worth it to split amongst 4-5 people. Even if we don't spend money to reduce waiting time we still end up using an amount of supplies which makes it fortunate for a team of this size to break even. In the case where there are "bad drops", we actually lose money. I do admit if we get supremely lucky and get "good" drops, we can actually pay for our expenses and have extra to split. If there was indeed a change in amount of gc dropped and/or the chance for getting rare items since the time of the creation of the 100-120 instance, then couldn't this be a reason why people started trying to farm them? Today I was just in the 100-120 instance with 3 players and my router/ISP started losing a bunch of packets unexpectedly, I lost my connection (and the ability to finish the instance), so yeah, I am pissed right now. Sorry for my negative attitude... My point is, since this update has introduced the requirement for 4 or more people to mitigate the risk of one player losing their network connection it would be most spectacular if we could all rest assured knowing that the benefits of a successfully completed instance outweigh the risks. (IE better drops..)As it is now, I don't dare do an instance anymore with less than 4 people and since the drops aren't "as good as they used to be", it makes me wonder if I should spend my time doing something else altogether... My other and perhaps more important point is, instances are supposed to be fun, but this change seems to make them less fun. ( Don't get me wrong, I love the eternal lands. Just wanted to voice my opinion on this. I am sure some might find this opinion offensive and will probably let me know it, and that's ok. But I also believe there are some who will agree. Respectfully, littlebro2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aredhel Report post Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) While this new rule makes sense to prevent excessive farming with only very few specialized players involved, in our case it provided quite a disappointment. We entered with 5, one was joining as a guest and died early because of poor equipment, dropping out. The remaining 4 were experienced instancers, so even as a small team they would have had a good chance to finish. One (me) had to log out temporarily becuause of an unexpected visitor. At this very time someone else grued due to poor connection - when i came back 2 minutes later, we all had gotten kicked. I was especially annoyed because i wasn't expecting this to be possible, yet it was mostly my fault. Perhaps the instance should pause if it drops below a certain number of players (with perhaps a quit option for the remaining players) rather than kicking everyone out. I don't know whether or not this would require a client update but just an idea. Something like this would solve this very issue to me. Another idea : have a timer which ends instance only when there's less than 3 people for more than, say, 5 minutes. Edited January 20, 2012 by aredhel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
groomsh Report post Posted January 20, 2012 Everyone I have talked to claims the drops for the 100-120 instance have changed significantly since the origination of it. Granted, I haven't been doing them long enough to make this claim myself, but I have done about 30-40 of them since and I will make the claim that the "average" drops are not worth it to split amongst 4-5 people. Even if we don't spend money to reduce waiting time we still end up using an amount of supplies which makes it fortunate for a team of this size to break even. In the case where there are "bad drops", we actually lose money. I do admit if we get supremely lucky and get "good" drops, we can actually pay for our expenses and have extra to split. I did not make lot of 100-120 instances (just like 2 or 3) but i think that this is quite an exaggeration. Last two times we had quite bad drops (one cocalar dropped only 3666 gc and an orange, the other one ~50kgc and 40 RoPs) ... However both times we had enough gc from drops to cover ALL supplies and we made few gc extra (like 8kgc)... Both times we made the instance in 6 people. I know that drops are a big motivation to enter instances, but i guess it's not the only one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TuDaeFadda Report post Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) And that single instance is the sample space on the basis of which you contest bro2's post, Groomsh? EDIT: might I hasten to add, those drops are better than the average drops of the day, and 8kgc profit for 2hrs' worth of rosto-risking constitutes instancer-unfriendly game design? Edited January 23, 2012 by TuDaeFadda Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khalai Report post Posted January 23, 2012 And that single instance is the sample space on the basis of which you contest bro2's post, Groomsh? EDIT: might I hasten to add, those drops are better than the average drops of the day, and 8kgc profit for 2hrs' worth of rosto-risking constitutes instancer-unfriendly game design? Well, I might add, that I can easily earn 4kgc/hr w/o ever risking a rosto or damaging high grade armor, so 8kgc net profit over 2hrs of riskful effort does not seem appropriate reward to me (and now, you can call me greedy for obvious reasons ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forum_andy Report post Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Hi, here a little statistic about the last 120-140 instances I have done: We go 4 men. We take: 200 pk arrows (35 gc ea) 7000 gc 100 srs (14.5 ea) 1450 gc 300 HEs (9 ea) 2700 gc 5th men (10 00 gc) 2500 gc for every member total: 13650 gc for every fighter (not counted mule glyphs and CF, broken FAs, other pots then srs, keys and other stuff, scales or token) We allways have leftover stuff, but I don't have statistic for this. Think this is eaten by weapon/armor break and loosing rosto. Also not counted the drops from other monsters then bosses. (Don't have a statistic, but I guess it is ~10k for every fighter) Here are the boss drops. Bosses: 1 Bulangiu, 1 cocalar, 1 cocalar ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drop: 16926 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Scythe Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 3841 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 496 Gold Coins 1/4 scythe, 5204 gc, 1 orange ea ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drop: 33809 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 1348 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 1552 Gold Coins 2/4 rdhoalm + 9177.25 gc + 1 orange ea --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drop: 13604 Gold Coins Drop: 1 P2P Shop Coupon Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 1 Bronze Sword Drop: 1 Bronze Sword Drop: 1 Bronze Sword Drop: 1 Bronze Sword Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 67017 Gold Coins Drop: 4 Serpent Stone Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 67863 Gold Coins 1/4 p2p coupon + 1 bronze sword + 1 serpent stone + 37121 gc + 1 orange ea --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drop: 32840 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Vegetal Removal Stone Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 4337 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 4541 Gold Coins 1/4 nexus removal + 10429.5 gc + 1 orange ea -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drop: 11768 Gold Coins Drop: 1 P2P Shop Coupon Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 1 Harvester of Sorrow removal Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 49214 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Bronze Sword Drop: 1 Bronze Sword Drop: 1 Bronze Sword Drop: 1 Bronze Sword Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 65254 Gold Coins 1/4 p2p coupon + 1/4 HoS removal + 1 bronze sword + 31559 gc + 1 orange ea ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Drop: 39965 Gold Coins Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 6326 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 24799 Gold Coins 2/4 rdholam + 17772.5 gc + 1 orange ea --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drop: 18010 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 26342 Gold Coins Drop: 4 Serpent Stone Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 31810 Gold Coins 2/4 rdholam + 1 serpent stone + 19040.5 gc + 1 orange ea ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drop: 29062 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Scythe Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 41542 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 24874 Gold Coins 1/4 scythe + 23869.5 gc + 1 orange ea ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Drop: 11158 Gold Coins Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 4 Serpent Stone Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 48236 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 21766 Gold Coins 1 serpent stone + 20290 gc + 1 orange ea ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drop: 13078 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Bronze Sword Drop: 1 Bronze Sword Drop: 1 Bronze Sword Drop: 1 Bronze Sword Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 1273 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 28277 Gold Coins 1 bronze sword + 10657 gc + 1 orange ea -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drop: 28790 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 4 Serpent Stone Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 36841 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 2232 Gold Coins 2/4 rdholam + 1 serpent stone + 16965.75 gc + 1 orange ea ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drop: 22818 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 17747 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 9759 Gold Coins 2/4 rdholam + 1281gc + 1 orange ea ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drop: 774 Gold Coins Drop: 1 P2P Shop Coupon Drop: 2 Orange Drop: 4 Serpent Stone Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 36474 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange Drop: 36078 Gold Coins 1/4 p2p coupon + 1 serpent stone + 18331.5 gc + 1 orange ea ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- edit: grammar Edited January 23, 2012 by forum_andy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TuDaeFadda Report post Posted January 23, 2012 I invite other 100-120 and 120-140 players to share coca drops in instances SINCE 06th Jan's update, and instance ending share as Andy has done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Littlebig Report post Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) -no message anymore:P- Edited January 23, 2012 by Littlebig Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littlebro2 Report post Posted January 24, 2012 Everyone I have talked to claims the drops for the 100-120 instance have changed significantly since the origination of it. Granted, I haven't been doing them long enough to make this claim myself, but I have done about 30-40 of them since and I will make the claim that the "average" drops are not worth it to split amongst 4-5 people. Even if we don't spend money to reduce waiting time we still end up using an amount of supplies which makes it fortunate for a team of this size to break even. In the case where there are "bad drops", we actually lose money. I do admit if we get supremely lucky and get "good" drops, we can actually pay for our expenses and have extra to split. I did not make lot of 100-120 instances (just like 2 or 3) but i think that this is quite an exaggeration. Last two times we had quite bad drops (one cocalar dropped only 3666 gc and an orange, the other one ~50kgc and 40 RoPs) ... However both times we had enough gc from drops to cover ALL supplies and we made few gc extra (like 8kgc)... Both times we made the instance in 6 people. I know that drops are a big motivation to enter instances, but i guess it's not the only one. I agree. There are other things about the instances that make them fun, but my point is, they should be more profitable. I mean come on.. they take a lot of planning, teamwork and organization to complete successfully. Even good fighters die occasionally which literally costs ~50kgc. Yesterday I went into instance in 5-man team. It took us close to 3 hours to finish. We got 13kgc after expenses. From my experience, this is actually a pretty good amount! To contrast this, I can get an excavator cape, a few picks, harvest iron for same amount of time and sell on market for nearly 2x the amount than I get in this instance. Very low chance to die. I would even say, no need for rosto here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vidriel Report post Posted January 25, 2012 Hmmm, what's the point of posting drops/share after last update? I think it's all the same still... But I will play your game a bit - here you are, my last three after 6th of January: Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 51296 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 229 Gold Coins 10636gc / 6 men Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 50249 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 52559 Gold Coins, Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana, Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana 57826gc / 4 men + 50 FAs each Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 52849 Gold Coins, Drop: 40 Ring of Power Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 3666 Gold Coins 8358gc / 6 men + RoPs Not doing statistics, so a short look back at some of the "older" ones: (got only drops, share not always recorded in my chatlog) Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 62930 Gold Coins, Drop: 40 Ring of Power Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 18130 Gold Coins, Drop: 4 Serpent Stone --- Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 36751 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 39435 Gold Coins, Drop: 1 Bronze Sword, Drop: 1 Bronze Sword, Drop: 1 Bronze Sword, Drop: 1 Bronze Sword --- Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 47579 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 54505 Gold Coins, Drop: 1 Bronze Sword, Drop: 1 Bronze Sword, Drop: 1 Bronze Sword, Drop: 1 Bronze Sword --- Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 24982 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 19810 Gold Coins --- Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 36776 Gold Coins Drop: 1 Orange, Drop: 28464 Gold Coins What's really sad comparing to 80-100 Labagiu's drops, the rare drops are really RARE sometimes. Do I have such bad luck or so? Didn't made many 100+ instances yet, but the drops are often worse than in 80+, and that's really depressive! Well, but this is not really a topic about drops and instance profit, is it? Don't get me wrong, I am pissed of about it sometimes as well, but I don't think there is problem with drops. It's about resources you burn, especially when you are doing lowmen instances. The money for enters. The rising prices of scales, disappearing invasion tokens as not so many invasion nowadays as used to be in the past. AND the rosto price climbing... hell I got no idea how high... So, is it still worth it to go into an instance for other thing than just having some fun with friends? Yes, you can earn better money with harvesting... but with active harvesting with possible harvest medallion to invest and spending half of that time to go to storage and back (especially with the iron mentioned)... No, thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TuDaeFadda Report post Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) My point is this: see those low-gc-no-rare Cocas? I believe their incidence has been increased of late. Together with the stricture for ~4 man teams and the resources consumed, armour degraded and bricks burnt, I believe this is pushing players towards loss-making instances whether they take small teams (more resources consumed) or larger ones (smaller share). Especially if instance cooldown reduction has been performed. Edited January 25, 2012 by TuDaeFadda Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vidriel Report post Posted January 25, 2012 Too small sample from me to tell... as you can see others are 50kgc+ But those small gc bosses are really evil, especially for 100-120 instance which has such variety in monsters. Imagine artic chims burning your resources, giants where shooting is needed badly and Lorcs where you earn hardly 1kgc! from the whole wave... then you are really dependant on what you will get from coca - and 200gc or 4k? Must be a joke... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DuBro Report post Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) i don't know what for tudae ask every1 to share, but here is 10 last drops of cocalars [17:53:00] Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana [17:53:00] Drop: 1 Red Dragon Helm Of Life and Mana [17:53:00] Drop: 1 orange [17:53:00] Drop: 24799 Gold Coins [17:44:36] Drop: 1 Orange [17:44:36] Drop: 6326 Gold Coins [19:01:07] Drop: 1 Orange [19:01:07] Drop: 9982 Gold Coins [18:53:07] Drop: 1 Orange [18:53:07] Drop: 25032 Gold Coins [17:54:37] Drop: 1 Orange [17:54:37] Drop: 1552 Gold Coins 17:44:59] Drop: 1 Orange [17:44:59] Drop: 1348 Gold Coins [23:01:55] Drop: 1 Orange [23:01:55] Drop: 35999 Gold Coins [22:54:09] Drop: 1 Orange [22:54:09] Drop: 15465 Gold Coins [15:39:11] Drop: 1 Bronze Sword [15:39:11] Drop: 1 Bronze Sword [15:39:11] Drop: 1 Bronze Sword [15:39:11] Drop: 1 Bronze Sword [15:39:11] Drop: 1 Orange [15:39:11] Drop: 47663 Gold Coins [15:31:18] Drop: 1 Orange [15:31:18] Drop: 4378 Gold Coins Edited January 25, 2012 by Alchemic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khalai Report post Posted January 26, 2012 The main problem lies with the 0gc drop on the low side of the interval. If there was e.g. 10,000gc minimal guaranteed drop, now we're talking about something. Could apply to all special monsters out there. Nothing pisses you off more than a long tiresome fight after you get just couple hundreds gold coins... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
