kanver Report post Posted August 8, 2009 Hi. It started out with me (kanver) asking about prices: [20:25:37] [kanver @ 3]: Let me ask you.. how are FEs still 3.5 when the ingredients sell for 4.5? [20:25:46] [Zipher @ 3]: they dont [20:26:11] [Zipher @ 3]: sulver2gc flowers .5 each [20:26:14] [burn @ 3]: sulfur 2gc, roses 0.5gc, snaps 0.5gc [20:26:18] [KingScandu @ 3]: =2.5 [20:26:21] [NooBPL @ 3]: suilphur 2gcs flower 0.33 flower 0.5 [20:26:23] [KingScandu @ 3]: *3.5 [20:26:32] [NooBPL @ 3]: yea, it must be 4.5gcs [20:26:37] [NooBPL @ 3]: [20:27:01] [kanver @ 3]: Really? I've been playing for 2 weeks after a long break. From what I gathered it's 0.8-1 per flower and 2.5 for sulfur. [20:27:11] [kanver @ 3]: Because of those stupid mini events I've tried to buy flowers for the usual 0.5 for days. The best offer I got was 0.9. Sulfur was offered to me at 2.5. I'm not saying that this is the "official"price, but that's how it was presented to me. Anyway... [20:27:19] [Maxine @ 3]: TOPIC [20:27:22] [silvatica @ 3]: then they overcharge you kanver Someone kindly pointed ot to me, that I had a wrong price. [20:27:29] [NooBPL @ 3]: ur problem, but it's #3:P [20:27:35] [kanver @ 3]: What? Market prices are perfectly on topic. [20:27:48] [Maxine @ 3]: best to do a pc before trying to sell an item for the first time, pc steel shield please [20:27:53] [NooBPL @ 3]: Wbut ur break from game isn't... [20:27:59] [Ghrae @ 3]: Buy/sell/trade/price check = market. Discussing market conditions is best for #jc 4 I never ever made this conversation about me having a break or discussing the market conditions. I wondered about the prices, I asked #3 about the FE price, I never tried to "discuss" the prices. [20:28:03] [Maxine @ 3]: MUTING STARTS NOW [20:28:13] [adi @ 3]: caps plz [20:29:34] [kanver @ 3]: Incredible. Fine, I'll never say another word again other than the three oficially sanctioned sentences. Obviously, at this point, I was pissed off. The market channel is only there for "pc xy pls", "selling xy" or "buying xy"? Come on! It's the market channel. [20:29:46] You were channel muted (can't talk on the channels for 20 minutes) by Maxine. [20:30:03] [PM to Maxine: Thanks for proving my point.] [20:30:03] [PM from Maxine: Automessage: I am currently away from my computer] [20:30:25] [Maxine @ 3]: first mute done, more volunteers? [20:30:56] [Zipher @ 3]: maxine is scary :/,, selling 3 efe's I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything wrong. I asked about the price of a specific item. I was corrected, a mod got agressive and muted me. Is this acceptable? Is the mod completely right for doing that? If so, I'm going to leave for good. I can see how that last comment wasn't perfectly fine, but overall, my feeling is that there has to be a serious violation of the rules if you want to mute/ban someone. This wasn't even close to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghrae Report post Posted August 8, 2009 Your upset b/c you were muted after you admit the thing you said wasn't appropriate? Muted, not banned? Hmm.... the problem again? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kanver Report post Posted August 8, 2009 Your upset b/c you were muted after you admit the thing you said wasn't appropriate? Muted, not banned? Hmm.... the problem again? Are you serious? I admit that someone with a very, very thin skin could take my statement as offensive. But "offensive" is more like "STFU up Maxine". You really think that being mildly unhappy with the strict interpretation of the rules deserves a 20 minute mute? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghrae Report post Posted August 8, 2009 I mute people too... quite often, after they show they've calmed down or at least show they understand the rules, I unmute them. It's an attention grabber... not a ban. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aislinn Report post Posted August 8, 2009 Market channel is way too busy and populated for chat. It is there to buy and sell stuff, and to ask for a price check. If everybody decided to start expressing their opinions and complain about the mini events, the channel would be unreadable and people would be ticked off they couldn't be seen/heard while trying to buy and sell. It was nicely explained to you, you are the one who continued to argue. The channel was then warned. You continued to argue. (And it looks to me like you exactly were the one who brought up your break [20:27:01] [kanver @ 3]: Really? I've been playing for 2 weeks after a long break.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kanver Report post Posted August 8, 2009 I mute people too... quite often, after they show they've calmed down or at least show they understand the rules, I unmute them. It's an attention grabber... not a ban. It's a sign that your kind of talk is not wanted. I personally do not want to be silenced everytime I disagree with something. I hope you agree with me that I wasn't even angry or upset. It was more like... "*shakinghead*". But from what you say, I gather that what I said was actually against the rules, eglible for punishment? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aislinn Report post Posted August 8, 2009 Obviously, at this point, I was pissed off. The market channel is only there for "pc xy pls", "selling xy" or "buying xy"? Come on! It's the market channel. I hope you agree with me that I wasn't even angry or upset. Can't say I agree with you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kanver Report post Posted August 8, 2009 Market channel is way too busy and populated for chat.It is there to buy and sell stuff, and to ask for a price check. If everybody decided to start expressing their opinions and complain about the mini events, the channel would be unreadable and people would be ticked off they couldn't be seen/heard while trying to buy and sell. It was nicely explained to you, you are the one who continued to argue. The channel was then warned. You continued to argue. (And it looks to me like you exactly were the one who brought up your break [20:27:01] [kanver @ 3]: Really? I've been playing for 2 weeks after a long break.) I disagree with #3 being too busy these days, but anyway. Here's what I said, in a nutshell: "Why are FE still 3.5, while mini events made the price for ingredients go up?" After that, people told me that the prices haven't actually changed, and I accepted that. And after that I did not argue about the *issue*, I expressed how irritated I was about how agressive the mod was. And yes, I brought my absence up, but only to explain my lack of knowledge about the current market prices. After that, people held it against me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Usl Report post Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) Kanver, quite clearly you are not familiar with channel rules. To avoid further misunderstandings, I will copy here the relevant rules: Rule 26. Obey Channel rules.[...] Market Channel Rules (#jc 3) 1. In Market channel, it is allowed: buying/selling ingame items, buying/selling ingame services, asking price checks, posting lotteries. [...] 2. Players are allowed 1 ad per 5 minutes. [..] 7. Only one "line" per message/ad/announcement. So yes, market channel is really for just those six canonical sentences, you cannot use it to chat about market conditions. In particular, discussing market prices (and the reasons why they change, and whether you were told differently or not, ...) is not perfectly on topic; asking a price check (one line) is. For chatting on the economy, channel 4 is appropriate, as Ghrae had pointed out. Also, I would like to bring to your attention Rule 27: Rule 27. Moderation is never a topic for public discussion.Issues and questions regarding in game policies and procedures should be addressed to the game administrators (namely Aislinn) or the specific moderator via private messages. Issues and problems concerning other game moderators should also be addressed privately with Aislinn. [...] So, if you had a problem with Maxine's and Ghrae's assessment and actions, you should have either talked with them in PM, or PM'ed Aislinn as an "appeal" so to say, against their decisions. Note however that a mute is not punishment, it is used to ensure that channel rules are observed. Edited August 8, 2009 by Usl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kanver Report post Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) Okay, fine. Although I'm still completely amazed that what I said was bad enough for punishment (even though you won't regard it as that), I'm going to accept that. Obviously I'm outnumbered here, as they say.. "If you don't like it, leave". Apparently lots of people "didn't like it", judging from the active player stats. I'm going to quit. In the years I've played, I never gotten into trouble with anyone, although I said worse stuff. If it's different now, I don't want to play this game anymore. And it's not about the rules either. If you choose to interpret rules in the strictest sense possible, you people have every right to silence everyone who doesn't follow the "6 sentences rule". And if you want to retreat to rule 27, that's okay. You know, it's like "DON'T QUESTION US, FOOL!". You can silence everyone who criticises anyone who deserves criticism this way. But I still think it's way over the top. I know myself, and I never once got angry this evening. It's not an excuse that I supposedly went "out of line" either. Again, I fully accept that you have your interpretation of the rules. But I don't recognize them. And that's why I'm gone. Edited August 8, 2009 by kanver Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KoDdy Report post Posted August 8, 2009 at all i think this is only waste of time posting this.. rule 1. admin got every time true,lol. u were muted only for 20 mins,so where is problem Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Usl Report post Posted August 8, 2009 Okay, fine. [...]I'm going to quit. [...] You can silence everyone who criticises anyone who deserves criticism this way. But I still think it's way over the top. [...] And that's why I'm gone. There is no need for drama, and as everyone reading this can witness, there was no attempt to silence criticism or anything. How easier it would have been to just delete the thread, but instead all the persons involved (and some not involved like myself) just tried to explain the grounds on which Maxine judged the ongoing discussion in 3 out of topic. Personally, [20:25:37] [kanver @ 3]: Let me ask you.. how are FEs still 3.5 when the ingredients sell for 4.5? looks like starting a discussion about the economy, not a price check - you knew the prices already. So, that's why channel 4 was more appropriate; channel 3 is a "technical" channel for buy/sell/price check, not open for chatting. The same goes for channels 1 and 2, which are Q&A channels, not for chatting. Channel 4 is for EL-related chatting, including economics. If that somehow is incompatible with you enjoying the game... I'm afraid I cannot do much more than what I have already done: trying to explain where the problem was, and why in my view Maxine's assessment was right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jezebelle Report post Posted August 8, 2009 Since when is moderation a topic for public discussion? Jez Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infamous Report post Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) never, its impossible to prove em wrong with that rule. edit: im suprised though, i thought Maxine only copy/pasted lines like "1 msg every 5 min" ^^ Edited August 8, 2009 by Infamous Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipher Report post Posted August 8, 2009 If you wouldn't have added the last smart ass comment to channel 3 you wouldn't have been muted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanyel Report post Posted August 8, 2009 Awesome thread. Although I think it should be in "Abuse" section. :nods: I feel abused. I hoped to read something hilarious or at least funny. Instead I got yet another whining thread. Additionally, the whiner harvests what sowed. Bugger. Could you try adding some nifty comments next time? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Piper Report post Posted August 8, 2009 edit: im suprised though, i thought Maxine only copy/pasted lines like "1 msg every 5 min" ^^ It looks like that sometimes a bigger hammer is needed. But thats really cool, that someone leaves the game just because being silenced in a single channel for just a few minutes. Well, guys, keep up the good work and post here, this thread is just hilarious Piper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robotbob Report post Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) I'm going to quit. In the years I've played, I never gotten into trouble with anyone, although I said worse stuff. If it's different now, I don't want to play this game anymore. And it's not about the rules either. If you choose to interpret rules in the strictest sense possible, you people have every right to silence everyone who doesn't follow the "6 sentences rule". And if you want to retreat to rule 27, that's okay. You know, it's like "DON'T QUESTION US, FOOL!". You can silence everyone who criticises anyone who deserves criticism this way. This is a common thing amongst online games. Somehow players believe their alledged Real Life rights somehow apply to this or any game. You violated the rules and received a 20 mintute warning, and instead of accepting the penalty, its the 'I'm quitting' drama. If fact, you recieved 2 warnings: [20:28:03] [Maxine @ 3]: MUTING STARTS NOW1 min, 31 Seconds later [20:29:34] [kanver @ 3]: Incredible. Fine, I'll never say another word again other than the three oficially sanctioned sentences. Then, ignoring warning one, you received warning #2 [20:29:46] You were channel muted (can't talk on the channels for 20 minutes) by Maxine. [20:30:03] [PM to Maxine: Thanks for proving my point.] Then your only reply is a smartass one? Others have said this before, this game survives because of Moderation. There are many games without moderation or any at all. (Delayed moderation, reporting people in such as Runescape, doesn't count). Quickly griefers can overwhelm a game with nothing better todo (For days mind you) than ruin everyone else's play. My $4.23 USD (I windbag'd it passed 0.02 =D ) Edited August 9, 2009 by robotbob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aphistolas Report post Posted August 9, 2009 Awesome thread. Although I think it should be in "Abuse" section. :nods: I feel abused. I hoped to read something hilarious or at least funny. Instead I got yet another whining thread. Additionally, the whiner harvests what sowed. Bugger. Could you try adding some nifty comments next time? 2. As always, nonsense posts, spam, off-topic, "lol"'s and name-calling posts will be deleted. -------- OP is over reacting. Even if the rules weren't as stringently applied a few years ago, it makes no sense to leave now since they're just being adhered to properly... Perhaps also to note that if you hadn't been so quick to react, you'd have noticed how things have changed. A lot happens in two years; MMORPG's move on as do communities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raytray Report post Posted August 9, 2009 This thread was in the abuse section but was moved here unless I'm mistakened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigkav Report post Posted August 9, 2009 Awesome thread. Although I think it should be in "Abuse" section. :nods: I feel abused. I hoped to read something hilarious or at least funny. Instead I got yet another whining thread. Additionally, the whiner harvests what sowed. Bugger. Could you try adding some nifty comments next time? 2. As always, nonsense posts, spam, off-topic, "lol"'s and name-calling posts will be deleted. -------- OP is over reacting. Even if the rules weren't as stringently applied a few years ago, it makes no sense to leave now since they're just being adhered to properly... Perhaps also to note that if you hadn't been so quick to react, you'd have noticed how things have changed. A lot happens in two years; MMORPG's move on as do communities. /Agree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sonic Report post Posted August 9, 2009 249 players of EL on the server, 249 players of EL! There is a little doubt, you cast him out, 248 players of EL on the server! Thank goodness there is still 100 beer bottles left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord_Cain Report post Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) Yea, things like this happen from time to time, in every RPG review I have seen for Eternal Lands, they constantly warn others about the Mods and their over use of their power. seems to me they take the "Power Hungry" Perk too literal... Edited August 10, 2009 by Lord_Cain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robotbob Report post Posted August 10, 2009 Yea, things like this happen from time to time, in every RPG review I have seen for Eternal Lands, they constantly warn others about the Mods and their over use of their power. seems to me they take the "Power Hungry" Perk too literal... Did you read any of this thread before you came to this conclusion? Or did you just managed to read the title. He was mad because: a mod enforced a rule he broke he neglected to read he was warned once 1 minute and 31 seconds later..he repeated and then only received a minor 20 minute penalty for it. Many of those "reviews' are little shit griefers that had their fun stopped, poor them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frogimus Report post Posted August 10, 2009 OMG EL is too heavily moderated. They make life hard for te gold sellers that buy all the banner ads u see on the page. As long as i remember, the market channel has been buy/sell/pc once every 5 minutes. I've probably been warned of "TOPIC" in the past too. If I have or ever do, I will take it in stride and go on playing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites