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To post above. About instances. Imagine it wasn't a money sink, but that you played even...

 

Like the summoning event in TD. Where guilds would fight together against waves of summoned creatures. You can't win, it's only about how far you get.

 

It is so much fun to do this, but not if you lose 200k+ worth of stuff.. and no fun way to make that money back. I would love to see instances for free, without rewards...

 

Currently the trend seems to be, you lose lose lose, and win a bit. I rather not win/gain anything, but neither losing anything. That means, just for fun of trying to survive as many waves of monsters with your guild. (Like PK is in a lot of games, you just PK for the killing, but you can't break items)

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Yes, newbs have alot of trouble placing pickpoints from what I have seen as well. It is even sometimes difficult for more experienced people to place pickpoints properly. People often place the pickpoints in the wrong place for the goal they have in mind.

 

I started playing this game some 3,5 years ago and I have lost track of how many times my main server char was #reset. Most resets were to get the character faster towards a direction I wanted, none of them were related with fighting, higher EMU, more pp's for crafting, etc.

 

This option is there, it's useful for training, PKing, mixing, just use it and the game will give you more of what it has.

 

I'm only now learning how to use pp's for fighting, by joining the PK Server and training with the need of always be on the look out for someone that might pop up ready to give it a try.

 

Reset the server, char wipe would get loads of people away from the game that at the moment only stay because they have leveled so far they can do all they want and help out their friends. This is the reason why most of those who try the PK Server run away, they get noob stats and can't deal with it as they need the urge to be around the "big boys".

 

As for the market, if you have an IT work you will probably be afk harvesting most of the time and get loads of items in storage you can sell anyway you want and get a big profit. If you like something special on the game like fighting you will have to suffer to get all those items you need and time to fight and level, bonus do come from rare drops.

 

The economy is supported by people with K's of items in storage, that do it all day long with more than one character and that way make it possible for most to train in steel/titanium armors loaded with SRs, HEs and other needed items and PKing with Dragon armor, at lower prices than the cost of their ingredients. If it wasn't this way most of those who train and PK would leave, because leather and chains aren't that good looking as armor.

 

As for instances, and I've only tried the 80/100 A/D, get a good team together, of friends if possible, work together and teh outcome won't be that much of a loss as the fun will be huge.

 

EL has changed a bit while I've played it, in the game mechanics much thanks to all the Devs and helpers, but the center of the game has always been the community, with people returning all the time to visit old friends and chat. If you focus the game on something else, like just the economy or just PKing, it will change too much and people won't come back as it will be just another MMORPG.

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Char wipe won't give anything too good for the Main server, BUT it might get more people to try the PK server, since the major drawback for them is the need to level their char from scratch. There won't be any difference where to train it, might as well try the PK server (esp those people who want more PK action).

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A character wipe doesn't happen just for the sake of a character wipe as a means to fix things.

A character wipe would only happen if there were significant changes made to the game as a whole that would not work with people currently keeping what they have now, be it items or stats or pickpoint expenditures.

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The economy is supported by people with K's of items in storage, that do it all day long with more than one character and that way make it possible for most to train in steel/titanium armors loaded with SRs, HEs and other needed items and PKing with Dragon armor, at lower prices than the cost of their ingredients. If it wasn't this way most of those who train and PK would leave, because leather and chains aren't that good looking as armor.

The cheap items are good for fighters, but bad for the people play one character and make things. If the prices are higher, the fighters will complain about paying the price that they should be paying and may leave and fine with me if they do. I am a manufacturer by trade...well, I don't do as much trading anymore, but still.....I think the items should be more than the cost of the ingreds. It is called profit. I simply think the fighters screw themselves by screwing over the manufacturers by not charging as much as the manufacturers would charge for their drops. So what if there is plenty of something in the game, give something you have plenty of yourself for it. It is called barter, people. Of course, this has all been said many time, but it is the Other side of the "omg, people are leaving EL" story than the fighters leaving. Many great manufacturers and crafters have left because of it.

 

By the way, read my signature caption.

Edited by nathanstenzel

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if economy is bad look at other ways to fix it, its been free market forever now, and developement is at a mindset that doesnt allow fun unless it costs loads of gc.

 

EL's economy isn't free market now and it never was. The most basic definition of free market is that 1) price of every product is set by law of supply and demand and 2) all transactions are made voluntarily without any coercion.

While second condition is met, the first one is not - NPCs buying and selling prices are set in stone which affects whole economy (eg. you will never find anyone selling fes for less than 3gc).

 

More on topic:

I'm not a fighter so I can't tell how does it look like from their perspective, but speaking from mixers' point of view I think csiga nailed the problem here: unless you learn to love afk-harving (and learn to love mini-events too) EL will quickly become boring. It's actually pretty simple when you think about it: you need to get lots of ings to get enough exp for higher skill levels and to get lots of ings you have to harvest them for hours. And let's not kid ourselves - long term harvesting is anything but fun, I think everyone agrees with that.

 

That's one thing, EL is also monotone for different reason: there are only few items people make, because everything else is either waste of gcs or waste of time.

I believe everyone knows what I'm talking about here, but let me an example anyway: everybody who is serious about manu skill, had made, are making or will be making tons of leather helms. That is, until he is able to make s2es with good success rate, then he will them whenever he'll want to score the next manu level.

And that's manu, for crafting there are polished sapphs -> moon meds -> glac/evtr rings; for potioning there are reasoning pots -> SR/BRs -> TS and so on. You people play this game so you know what I am talking about :cry:

 

So to sum it up, EL is droning because players are constantly harving the same stuff to make the same items, with very little variety.

 

But this post wouldn't have much value if I haven't give any solution to this problem, right? Right, so here is my solution: we should review and NPC buying and selling prices to (at least) allow mixers make every item in game without gc loss. Sounds radical? Yeah, it pretty much is, but I think it would help, for multiple reasons.

 

First and least important, is that it would remove this stupid situation we have now, where if I would want to buy ings from NPC for... let's say fire essences, I would have to pay 12gc (6 for sulfur, 3 for snaps and 3 for roses) and I would be able to sell finished product for 3gc. Using our pr0 math skills we calculate that our work is worth exactly -9gc. That's right, my work have negative value. I know it was set up this way to encourage trading between players, but come, with prices like it's pointless to even have NPC who sell sulfur. Now, let's imagine that we set sulfur selling price set at 3gc, both flowers at 0.5gc and fe buying price at 4.05gc.

How would that affect the game? First of all, if we set the prices of all (or at least low and mid level) items in this manner it would allow much quicker exping, because players would be able to make stuff appropriate to their skill levels (which means more variety which means less boredom, which is the second and main reason it would help the game) without losing money, but also without any decent profit. If players would want to earn some cash by the way they would still have to harvest at least some ings themselves. But they would have a choice and choice is always good.

That would allow newer players to catch up with older ones more quickly, without wiping the database, or screwing anybody. I know it would change the pace of the game (for mixers at least) but I'm truly convinced it would change it only for the better.

 

Of course, enriched essies, stones etc. would be available only from $hop and made/dug by chance, so we would still maintain the control over influx of the ubber gear.

 

And if the NPCs would be able to adjust their prices depending on what goods players are buying/selling on top of that... but that's a different story.

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The 'capture the flag'-like games also a good idea (what Korrode made on KF earlier), but maybe good to have support from the server - maybe a map and no guild change needed to join them. A fighting area also would be good where the opponents pay when entering, and the winner gets all money (or the viewers can bet them in gc, like a lottery, and some percent are for the winner).

+1 for server legislated PvP 'games'.

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That's one thing, EL is also monotone for different reason: there are only few items people make, because everything else is either waste of gcs or waste of time.

I believe everyone knows what I'm talking about here, but let me an example anyway: everybody who is serious about manu skill, had made, are making or will be making tons of leather helms. That is, until he is able to make s2es with good success rate, then he will them whenever he'll want to score the next manu level.

And that's manu, for crafting there are polished sapphs -> moon meds -> glac/evtr rings; for potioning there are reasoning pots -> SR/BRs -> TS and so on. You people play this game so you know what I am talking about :cry:

 

So to sum it up, EL is droning because players are constantly harving the same stuff to make the same items, with very little variety.

 

I agree completely with this ^. Its not just in mixing, but fighting too...

----It would be nice to have more of a variety in all skills. Something that would be nice is not just a ladder-styled object/combat system, where you take it one specific rung after another (Or you can skip up or down), but something more branched out, into a vine series. (Sorry for the annoying metaphors)

Like the rabbits, beavers, skunks, and raccoons, more variety of items/monsters for a similar stat range, and maybe different requirements/stats to match different attribute builds so no matter your build, there is something you can take outside of PK...

 

Just my thoughts... You heard nothing. >.>

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A character wipe would only happen if there were significant changes made to the game as a whole that would not work with people currently keeping what they have now, be it items or stats or pickpoint expenditures.

mmmmmmmmmm significant changes + char wipe... how do i emote w/ text that sound homer simpson makes when he thinks of something nice?

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Well everyone else had an idea i guess i do to.

How about a second main server with a new everything, the cost of what a npc sells is cut in half and what he buys is doubled. No bots. Everything is the same except it would take less time to make gc and more time to have fun. Everyone starts new too and it should cost a 'X' amount of USD. Id play it if i had a paypal.

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Well everyone else had an idea i guess i do to.

How about a second main server with a new everything, the cost of what a npc sells is cut in half and what he buys is doubled. No bots. Everything is the same except it would take less time to make gc and more time to have fun. Everyone starts new too and it should cost a 'X' amount of USD. Id play it if i had a paypal.

:devlish: $8k for the first year in advance, $4k for additional years, any shop or services sales you be applied towards the next year ... and I'll see what I can do for you. That would be for a US server on the east coast (EU players add 90-100ms to your ping time, US players, deduct that amount).

 

I'm not talking O-L, that would be for an EL style server tuned differently.

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Well everyone else had an idea i guess i do to.

How about a second main server with a new everything, the cost of what a npc sells is cut in half and what he buys is doubled. No bots. Everything is the same except it would take less time to make gc and more time to have fun. Everyone starts new too and it should cost a 'X' amount of USD. Id play it if i had a paypal.

 

 

you accept sears card like like Kmart does? :devlish:

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Well everyone else had an idea i guess i do to.

How about a second main server with a new everything, the cost of what a npc sells is cut in half and what he buys is doubled. No bots. Everything is the same except it would take less time to make gc and more time to have fun. Everyone starts new too and it should cost a 'X' amount of USD. Id play it if i had a paypal.

:devlish: $8k for the first year in advance, $4k for additional years, any shop or services sales you be applied towards the next year ... and I'll see what I can do for you. That would be for a US server on the east coast (EU players add 90-100ms to your ping time, US players, deduct that amount).

 

I'm not talking O-L, that would be for an EL style server tuned differently.

interesting...

 

you willing to consider a bunch of other changes too?

 

i guess the better question is; is the person(s) who pays 'in charge' of the server? like can choose item stats, recipes, npc buy/sell prices, npc features/functions, etc.?

Edited by Korrode

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Well everyone else had an idea i guess i do to.

How about a second main server with a new everything, the cost of what a npc sells is cut in half and what he buys is doubled. No bots. Everything is the same except it would take less time to make gc and more time to have fun. Everyone starts new too and it should cost a 'X' amount of USD. Id play it if i had a paypal.

:devlish: $8k for the first year in advance, $4k for additional years, any shop or services sales you be applied towards the next year ... and I'll see what I can do for you. That would be for a US server on the east coast (EU players add 90-100ms to your ping time, US players, deduct that amount).

 

I'm not talking O-L, that would be for an EL style server tuned differently.

interesting...

 

you willing to consider a bunch of other changes too?

Depends on what the changes are, amount of effort needed, and community support. IF something like this moved forward, things could be discussed at that time in another thread.

 

While I seriously doubt anyone would dig up the money for this, I at least made sure the prices I listed would cover the server and payments to Ent as well.

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raising US$8k via donations is not all that unreasonable really... but the donators would of course want guarantees on certain things prior to committing their $.

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Quoted from: there is room for all to play. And by seperating the 2 different classes of Players, Radu can help keep 'em coming back, thereby reducing the number of those who make Characters, then return to "other games" just beacuse they "have a fighting chance" to get somewhere and be someone who matters.

 

 

I have been playing since 2004 or 2005..

 

1. I left 2 times for about a year at a time and came back.

2. I spend more money than most players when I do play and my character is #12 attack with a buttload of bought pickponits to aid and i have GC coming outt of my ass. basically I mean - I am at no disadvantage in playing. My Alchemy is 90, manu is very high too.

 

I quit a 2nd time last November and just came back... and I do notice A LOT of population is gone since then...

 

I wont say my thoughts on why players are leaving but....

 

What I will say is People are not leaving this game because of a disadvantage in catching up to the higher levels... This is proven as easy as looking at the top 10 Attack who were hooked 2 years ago on this game like a junky on crackrock. THEY ALL QUIT and sold their characters! LOL its all new owners! we never had a sell off like that before. So umm.. something happened that severely pissed off the fighters.

 

fighters might be just 1 small part of the game but when all the top ones (as well as many lower ones) leave u lose a nice chunk of People who play a lot, Spend more gc than the average person, and add to the community and economy and you have less people as friends and people to chat with.

Edited by LuciferX

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The reason that I no longer play is because of the huge investment in time (or money) to have a character able to pvp.

 

It isn't so much careful placement of PP and choice in armor, but training until you're a high level than your rival.

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^ Could not be any more posibly right then how right he is.

 

This is why all my friends quit actually :devlish:

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A reset might work for the PvP fraction because they'd be on the same level again.

 

But for all the mixers that would be slap in the face. You work your ass off to beat the level requirement on the item and then you're resetted back to square one. And this affects fighters too. You'd all have to start with leather armor until there's a manuer who worked his ass off again to be able to make steel sets and stuff. And I'm not sure if there will be many left.

 

The best chance for an even playing field was on a while back on the PvP server. Why didn't you start there?

 

And what happens two months after a reset? New players arrived and stand no chance vs those that trained all day. Should there be another reset to level the playing field again? I doubt it.

 

No I don't get it. In sports they don't restart the races either if the first one is a lap behind.

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A reset might work for the PvP fraction because they'd be on the same level again.

 

A reset in the long run wouldnt solve anything, the simple reason in IMO is outside of PvP the high level fighters have nothing to do, and once they reach that point again then the same problems exist.

 

For a high level fighter who doesnt PK the options are:

 

Instances: Always the same, so once you get the tactics down then pretty much a walk in the park, so no challenge

Invasions: Unless totally OPed and have X amounts of dragons or MB dropped on you, then dont hold much of a challenge to the top tiers either

 

Which kinda leaves grinding, so players get bored with the lack of things to do and leave or sell and move on.( this might even be the case for non-PvPers)

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A reset might work for the PvP fraction because they'd be on the same level again.

 

A reset in the long run wouldnt solve anything, the simple reason in IMO is outside of PvP the high level fighters have nothing to do, and once they reach that point again then the same problems exist.

 

For a high level fighter who doesnt PK the options are:

 

Instances: Always the same, so once you get the tactics down then pretty much a walk in the park, so no challenge

Invasions: Unless totally OPed and have X amounts of dragons or MB dropped on you, then dont hold much of a challenge to the top tiers either

 

Which kinda leaves grinding, so players get bored with the lack of things to do and leave or sell and move on.( this might even be the case for non-PvPers)

 

 

another game i played, talisman online, has levels capped at 66. It´s just the one level you get, there are some side activities but you can get along just fine without them. the level 66 can be obtained in about 2 months by someone that works a fulltime job but spends a lot of his free time on the game. Still, talisman has people stay around for quite a long time. They do the same scenarios (=instances) over and over and over again, several times a day even.

 

My point is: you will grind as you advance in any game, it seems inevitable. At least in EL, if you've focussed on just a few skills at first, you can find other skills to develop when the grinding gets too much for you. But if you do enjoy the grinding, you'll pretty much always keep seeing progress, even though it does get slooooow as hell. Would you rather see a/d capped to say.. 130s so that the whole field levels out? And in that case, would you do the same to all the other skills?

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My point is: you will grind as you advance in any game, it seems inevitable. At least in EL, if you've focussed on just a few skills at first, you can find other skills to develop when the grinding gets too much for you. But if you do enjoy the grinding, you'll pretty much always keep seeing progress, even though it does get slooooow as hell.

 

Granted every game has its grinds, but each vary on how much there is to do to break up that grind, EL has very little, unless you choose to train another skill, which wether its right or wrong and depends on peoples styles, some people dont want to do, and TBH why should they have to ?. Why should someone who likes the game for its PvE/PvP system ( which is a hell of alot better than a fair few MMO's ) have to mix to get fun or vice versa ?

 

IMO each skill needs more endgame content, since thats where the "grinding with nothing else to challenge you" kicks in

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