Combat System Suggestions

[HeLLRaiZeR]

Howdy!

 

Started training combat again recently, and I think the system is quite weird. Chatted with some other players about it and most people agreed. Most games either have that you get for example one xp for each point of damage you inflict, or you get a flat xp bonus for each monster kill depending the level and hardness of the monster.

 

It's quite silly that to get the most xp possible you should fight without a sword, retreat every 15 turns and then attack again. It doesn't seem very realistic, and I think it's quite boring. Why not remove lets say 50% of the XP you get by fighting, and give each creature an X xp bonus for getting the kill. The X could be either flat or depending on your A/D levels, preferably flat.

 

This would help from clogged spots, since people didn't have to train in a certain monster order. People could use sword to kill a little weaker creatures faster, gathering meat and such, while still receiving "decent" xp from the flat kill bonus. More spawns would also be needed at certain spots, like fluffs, chimerians, male ogres, trolls, so people dont have to wait for ages for their spawn to respawn or find it.

 

Economically, this would make fighting a little more profitable, since if you kill creatures faster you get more drops. If people use swords however, they risc breaking them.. And well, you can actually serp spawns now for fast drops, although the experience is bad unless you fight a monster much stronger than yourself.. Which incase you might aswell fight something barefisted that suits your a/d more..

 

Some constructive critism please, not just "lol noob". My A/D isn't very good, but if youre gonna dissagree please come up with a suggestion yourself.

 

 

Edit : This might've been suggested before, but saw no active thread about it and I'm not very fond of gravedigging up old threads..

Edited November 1, 2008 by HeLLRaiZeR

[Elveron]

I'm pretty sure that it's designed to stop afk training.

[HeLLRaiZeR]

Well, since weaker monsters doesnt autoattack, afk training without macroing would be very hard.. You could go to some strong monsters, but you'd risk dying..

 

Oh, this suggestion only refers to PvE.. I'm not quite sure if the 50% reduction flat xp thing should apply to PvPing.. I've understood that Radu thinks pvping is borderlineabuse, but alot people including me find it quite fun.. Hard thing.

Edited November 1, 2008 by HeLLRaiZeR

[Kalix]

I like the way the training system is set up.

[Talixim]

I would like to see a change in something other than skills and items for once. Instead of focusing on getting gc out of the game why not improve graphics or the combat system? But no let's add some pointless skills instead, that sounds more appealing.

 

Atm I don't have any worthy ideas for a combat system but I will chat with some people ingame and think up ideas there. :/

[HeLLRaiZeR]

I would like to see a change in something other than skills and items for once. Instead of focusing on getting gc out of the game why not improve graphics or the combat system? But no let's add some pointless skills instead, that sounds more appealing.

 

Atm I don't have any worthy ideas for a combat system but I will chat with some people ingame and think up ideas there. :/

 

Well, I think the new skills is quite funny.. Variation is appealing. Compared to other mmorpgs this game has a very weird combat system though. The way you get xp and P/C affecting is realistic, which I find great, but the idea of doing as little damage as you can and fighting for as long as possible is strange. I think it would improve the overall reception of EL alot having a more "common" xp system..

[The_Piper]

lol n00b

 

Seriously, i dont see your problem, but i see another problem.

 

If you only get a flat XP bonus for a kill, how could you team up on a creature/player and get XP?

 

Right now, when fighting 1 vs 1 or team vs 1, you get xp every round of the fight.

 

Having only a flat XP amount you get for the *KILL*, only one player would get the XP for the kill when teaming up on a creature and the other members of the team get nothing.

 

So the current system we have sounds more fair to me.

 

Piper

[SenZon]

mayb what gets us addicted to EL is the diffrence to the other games no?

and its not bad the way it is and i train feros and i have to flee them 1-4 time depending on what im using

but like Tali said maybe some new additions to the graphics would be nice and i saw tht roja is working on those so i think EL is good the way it is

 

~SenZ

[Aislinn]

Some constructive critism please, not just "lol noob". My A/D isn't very good, but if youre gonna dissagree please come up with a suggestion yourself.

This makes no sense. If they disagree with you and think it's fine as it is, they don't need a suggestion

 

 

Edit : This might've been suggested before, but saw no active thread about it and I'm not very fond of gravedigging up old threads..

We prefer you search and find the old threads, they usually tell you why something isn't changed in the first place and then you don't make a pointless new suggestion

[Sayre]

Flat XP is a good idea, and the way to get team XP is simply that the total amout of xp is divided amongst the group in proportion to the damage each member inflicted.

 

I can remember typing this before so I am sure it has come up.

 

The "branchless" fighting aptitude structure and duration based XP system means that the best way to get xp is to fight for the longest time possible with the weakest weapon possible (or none). The same xp that you gain while kicking a beaver is used to gain the levels that make you able to kill a gargoyle with a two handed halberd. The game makes no distinction between skills in different weapon types. Even if xp gained with barefist or bone/stick was treated differently to xp gained with a weapon, it might make it worthwhile to actually train with a weapon.

 

Keep kicking those rabbits, people!

 

S.

[Miiks]

mayb what gets us addicted to EL is the diffrence to the other games no?

and its not bad the way it is and i train feros and i have to flee them 1-4 time depending on what im using

but like Tali said maybe some new additions to the graphics would be nice and i saw tht roja is working on those so i think EL is good the way it is

 

~SenZ

I agree. I have played at least 10+ different free MMORPGs and always have come back to EL, because training is not so boring than in other games. It's just so boring to rape millions of monsters with sword and magic in long run. You always get same small exp and then think "just 200k monsters more and I will get new lvl". In EL you can make different builds to make different exp. F.e. my new char has def build, so I don't get much att exp but horrible def exp. Bad for drops, bad for att exp, but it's just fun to see, how big cap can I get between a/d lvls

 

So I like this system and I don't see any reason to change it You can always go to play those "grind 'till death" games instead of EL, if the system here isn't good enough

 

Secondly it's too late to make that big changes on fighting system anymore.

[The_Piper]

Flat XP is a good idea, and the way to get team XP is simply that the total amout of xp is divided amongst the group in proportion to the damage each member inflicted.

 

Meep, wrong, big problem detected!

 

So i give you a typical piper-style example, which is unlikely, but technically possible:

 

Lets say, 3 n00bs are going to fight an arctic chimmie in Hulda.

 

So they fight brave side by side, then n00b_1 disses and goes away.

 

Later n00b_2 disses too, beams and logs off and leaves for lunch.

 

Noob_3 now is helpless and out of diss rings and dies. Frustrated as he is, he commits suicide in C2 underworld, aka #kill_me yes.

 

And a heavily injured arctic chimmie is running now across Hulda in its pain.

 

XP earned so far? Zero.

 

One week later, the poor chimmie is still suffering from its wounds, n00b_2 buys a pr0 chimmie killer char, gets a name change to n00b_2, goes to Hulda and kills the chimmie.

 

Who gets now the XP from the kill?

 

And how many data has the server to store, to keep track and divide the XP's between all involved players?

 

I think, the way you get XP from fighting in EL is just fine as it is, to be honest

 

Piper

[Miiks]

Flat XP is a good idea, and the way to get team XP is simply that the total amout of xp is divided amongst the group in proportion to the damage each member inflicted.

 

Meep, wrong, big problem detected!

 

So i give you a typical piper-style example, which is unlikely, but technically possible:

 

Lets say, 3 n00bs are going to fight an arctic chimmie in Hulda.

 

So they fight brave side by side, then n00b_1 disses and goes away.

 

Later n00b_2 disses too, beams and logs off and leaves for lunch.

 

Noob_3 now is helpless and out of diss rings and dies. Frustrated as he is, he commits suicide in C2 underworld, aka #kill_me yes.

 

And a heavily injured arctic chimmie is running now across Hulda in its pain.

 

XP earned so far? Zero.

 

One week later, the poor chimmie is still suffering from its wounds, n00b_2 buys a pr0 chimmie killer char, gets a name change to n00b_2, goes to Hulda and kills the chimmie.

 

Who gets now the XP from the kill?

 

And how many data has the server to store, to keep track and divide the XP's between all involved players?

 

I think, the way you get XP from fighting in EL is just fine as it is, to be honest

 

Piper

So true... And when you go to kill dragon. It has 5500 hp iirc (ice dragon), then flee, when it has 100 hp because you are out of mana. Someone comes and kills dragon and gets all the exp This is how it works in other games lol.

[Sayre]

Counter-proposals:

 

1) You don't kill the monster in that session, you don't get the xp. A session can be time-based or however.

 

2) XP can be diminished upon kill in proportion to the diminished amount of health the injured monster had on engagement.

 

Anyway, given that, I actually don't mind the current system anyway. I was just joining in.

 

S.

[Miiks]

2) XP can be diminished upon kill in proportion to the diminished amount of health the injured monster had on engagement.

Better, but it practically means, that whole fighting system should be coded from the beginning and it takes a lot of time. IMO if the fighting system is working good enough for most of players atm, it's better to focus on things, that works worse and make them better.

 

Too much difficult words btw, so I'm not sure if I got your idea right

[Sayre]

2) XP can be diminished upon kill in proportion to the diminished amount of health the injured monster had on engagement.

Better, but it practically means, that whole fighting system should be coded from the beginning and it takes a lot of time. IMO if the fighting system is working good enough for most of players atm, it's better to focus on things, that works worse and make them better.

 

Too much difficult words btw, so I'm not sure if I got your idea right

 

 

Couldnt agree more

 

S.

[korrode]

[conavar]

 

lol

 

The easiest system for team combat is instant X amount of xp per X amount of dmg (not sure what ration it would have to be, because 1 to 1 isnt enough, ie: A DCW only giving 250 max xp per creature would be to low).

 

But without increased spawn times, then for training purposes not sure if it would pay to use a sword vs boxing and healing

[Kalix]

It seems like the only way it would work is if you got a set amount of exp per hit. Lets say you get 5 exp per hit. You would always get 50 exp from a rabbit. Or if a new player got a rabbit to 6 health and then died they would get 20 exp. But then people would be training with thermal serps and will be killing what they train on in 2 seconds.

 

But like i said before, i like it how it is.

 

But without increased spawn times, then for training purposes not sure if it would pay to use a sword vs boxing and healing

 

It would probobly just make people spawn serp more then there would be more people complaining about spawn serpers

 

#edit fixed some spelling

Edited November 1, 2008 by time4u2die

[bkc56]

One week later, the poor chimmie is still suffering from its wounds ...

I've always wondered why critters don't heal over time like players do. Perhaps at a lower rate (1 hp every other minute, or every 5 minutes) but so that eventually they'll be back to full health.

[HeLLRaiZeR]

Some constructive critism please, not just "lol noob". My A/D isn't very good, but if youre gonna dissagree please come up with a suggestion yourself.

This makes no sense. If they disagree with you and think it's fine as it is, they don't need a suggestion

 

 

Edit : This might've been suggested before, but saw no active thread about it and I'm not very fond of gravedigging up old threads..

We prefer you search and find the old threads, they usually tell you why something isn't changed in the first place and then you don't make a pointless new suggestion

 

You know what I mean, even if you're a moderator no need to try and act smart. Just because you don't agree with my suggestions it certainly isn't pointless. With that attitude we might aswell cancel the whole suggestionsforum.

 

@ The_Piper, you'd still get half the xp as it is now. It wouldnt be either xp per tick or flat xp, but both. If three people attacked it, everyone would get the roundxp and the person dealing most damage would get the flat rate xp.

 

Edited November 1, 2008 by HeLLRaiZeR

[Mango]

It would make sense, but I don't believe the combat system will ever be changed so much. So get rid of all the weapons, and put out those fists.

[Aislinn]

You know what I mean

Indeed I do, but you didn't get what I said or meant at all (either comment).