The Chim Project

[popeye]

I think whoever has the tokens should sell them to me and let me decide the right thing to do (on behalf of all the players of course).

Or give them to me. I'll put titanium everywhere.

 

 

I voted no to both questions.

[Michic0_oL]

Voted no on both,

 

tried to form an opinion by reading between the flames, but i really cant see why a highlvl monster, more or less desined to fight in groups should be able to fight barehanded.

 

chim is not a monster designed to be multi, and it was possible to box is before the cap because of higher p/c, read what i said : 48/76 = 62 matter our build now is limited at 48 matter.

[korrode]

let's reduce chimmy stats so 80 a/d noobs can come hog the chimmies

lmfao @ the idea of an 80's a/d person training chims since 48 cap.

u r n00b.

 

My question is:

If the argument to do this is for "the good of the community", why isn't a project chosen that will benefit MOST of the community?

As i explained in the other thread, these changes would have the people who go from feros/fluff (and even d.chim) to forest or mountain chims using a lot more resources in training. Essences, pots, armor, CoL's/meds... there would be at least a slight increase in demand for all these items.

 

Hm, after speaking to another reliable, high level fighter.. seems that Korrode's proposed changes are more geared towards his stats.

My stats?! i'm 28/40 p/c (check if u like, my privacy is off), perfectly setup for fluffy for my a/d. If these changes dont happen, i'll continue to use very little HE/SR/armor training fluffy @ -15 and never PK. It'll cost me much less to reach higher a/d, and i wont be poofing rostos or breaking armor in PK.

 

...."geared towards his stats". i lol'd.

 

A ) fchim/mchim toughness and armour needs reducing to dchim levels (imo that would be way to low,making them to easy)

man some ppl just dont understand.

I'm not looking to lower the damage they inflict, their crit rates, their dex/react, their a/d... all and any of those things contribute more than toughness/armor to what makes a creature "hard".

 

I just want it so the same attack exp p/hour thats made on single fluff spawn can be made on single chim spawn... that really is the key difference that would come with the stats changes.

 

but i really cant see why a highlvl monster, more or less desined to fight in groups should be able to fight barehanded.

In the past, Radu himself has questioned why people dont use f/m.chims more for training. It is not a creature designed to be only killable by groups. They are killable now by a single person np, the only difference my change will make, at all, is that a person with 48/48 p/c and enough a/d/r/i will be able to do it barefist instead of with a weapon.

 

i train fcw/mcw with no probs killed over 35k fcw and 18k mcw

 

can't see y u need to change them

Ya, as they're so unused for training, you've been able to sit in Tirnym where a heap of them spawn.

Hope you're going to Yeti soon, cause i've changed my mind, the second my OA is high enough for me to take 48/48/24 p/c/i, i own tirnym NE chim spawn.

I'll be leaving all guild affiliations and whenever i want the spawn and someone else is on it, i'll be taking it by serping... as i have no choice, unlike fluff or feros where there's enough spawns to go round, the ONLY way i'll be able to make the same exp on f/m.chims is at that one and only Tirnym spawn.

 

The only solution other than my proposed one, is to add heaps of f/m.chims to quite a few other maps, and to me that is a "band-aid" solution, rather than addressing the actual problem.

 

--------------------

 

@Cruella

Truly Cru, thank you for trying to get this to happen.

So many of the people who voted no and posted their reasons are ill-informed and obviously have not read all previous documentation i've provided about the suggestion. Pretty much all the arguments presented i've already countered with simple, logical reasoning.

 

But as usual, people vote No simply because they dont understand, or out of spite for another type of EL player.

 

If you do get together invasion tokens and Radu will implement the changes, i'll be happy to help, irrelevant of the outcome of this poll... in regard to me providing figures for exactly how much armor and toughness needs to be reduced, it'd be a lot easier if Radu would state the difference in armor and toughness stats between d.chim and f.chim, and d.chim and m.chim... but even without that info i'll be able to come up with something workable.

 

--------------------

 

On a final note, to all the no-voters;

Unless you've actually been a 110+ a/d'er with 48/48 p/c, you should consider that perhaps your knowledge about the situation is not quite complete enough for you to be voting.

 

To these unnamed 'reputable and knowledgeable' high level a/d'ers, please PM me in-game and tell me your reasoning so i can explain how you're wrong (once im done moving).

... but be sure you've actually read all my already provided documentation on the subject, it's no fun if all i have to do is send you links to forum posts to counter your arguments.

Edited September 13, 2008 by Korrode

[Michic0_oL]

amen.

[Ermabwed]

I still question why there even should be creatures that are trainable above a certain point, which seems to be d-chims for some atm.

Why not make anything above that too hard for anyone to train on and change spawns so that "serping" of some sort isn't possible either?

[Sayre]

I can vote that it is a shit use of tokens that doesn't benefit most of the community without being a 110+ a/d'er

 

The vote was whether I would support the "Chim Project" (no) and Are the Chim changes a good idea (no, given that it will require tokens that probably have a more beneficial use elsewhere)

 

You wanted a community vote, you got one. Sorry, but most of the community isn't 110 a/d+, and it seems the poll results speak for themselves anyway.

 

S.

[korrode]

I still question why there even should be creatures that are trainable above a certain point, which seems to be d-chims for some atm.

Erma, all i personally want is a creature i can train at 48/48 p/c and make the same att exp p/h as i can at 28/40 p/c.

If m/f.chims are changed for this purpose, it'll cost me a crap-load more resources in training, and that's my selling point to the non-fighters... it also wont yield me that much more exp p/h as i cant -15 TS on those chims. If it's preferable, changing Fluffy to have toughness/armor increased to be the same as d.chim is fine by me, in fact it's better... i'd just train them -15 TS'd and use hardly any resources doing it.

 

Believe it or not, i'm actually not just some selfish high-ish level a/d trainer trying to get the game changed to suit what makes it easy on myself.

Radu quite a while ago expressed concern in regard to m/f.chims not being used for training, so it made complete sense to make these changes. I (and other fighters) get what i (we) want, mixers sell more product, and Radu get's those chims used for training!

 

Is this so hard to comprehend?!

 

EDIT:

(no, given that it will require tokens that probably have a more beneficial use elsewhere)

I 100% agree.

the fact we need to use tokens to get a change that (imo) is best to be done anyways is fucking bullshit.

It should simply just be done for the good of the game. No tokens needed.

Edited September 13, 2008 by Korrode

[Walt-Her]

but i really cant see why a highlvl monster, more or less desined to fight in groups should be able to fight barehanded.

In the past, Radu himself has questioned why people dont use f/m.chims more for training. It is not a creature designed to be only killable by groups. They are killable now by a single person np, the only difference my change will make, at all, is that a person with 48/48 p/c and enough a/d/r/i will be able to do it barefist instead of with a weapon.

 

 

i know radu did, but for some reason most of ad trainers think the weapons in the game are only for bragging around.

 

I would say if you cant hit a creature for more than 0 HP then use a sword to hit it, myself cant hit a clops with a bone. does that make it un trainable? Hell no i just use a sword and i can do some damage, do i make uber xp? No sir but the oa i make is way more than i could ever reach doing other things.

 

To me this all sounds like some want to get tons of xp w/o spending any gc/effort. Sorry to say, i have big respect for you, but somehow i think fighters want an advantage no other can get.

Its a ROLE PLAYING GAME, i hope some of you will understand that someday and act like it, roleplay an uber strong creature, and addapt to its stats by using the right weapon, armour or even fight it with a group.

 

Maybe Radu should make a chance more towards the hitting of a creature, the harder you hit the more xp/hit. I dont know but as i said to me it sound rediculous if even a strong fighter will barefist a creature like the cimaran wolfs, it just doesn't fit in my view of roleplaying

[Michic0_oL]

but i really cant see why a highlvl monster, more or less desined to fight in groups should be able to fight barehanded.

In the past, Radu himself has questioned why people dont use f/m.chims more for training. It is not a creature designed to be only killable by groups. They are killable now by a single person np, the only difference my change will make, at all, is that a person with 48/48 p/c and enough a/d/r/i will be able to do it barefist instead of with a weapon.

 

 

i know radu did, but for some reason most of ad trainers think the weapons in the game are only for bragging around.

 

I would say if you cant hit a creature for more than 0 HP then use a sword to hit it, myself cant hit a clops with a bone. does that make it un trainable? Hell no i just use a sword and i can do some damage, do i make uber xp? No sir but the oa i make is way more than i could ever reach doing other things.

 

if u use a sword u get more xp on feros / hour so better not use a sword and stay on weaker creatures. A we said, u get more xp on feros/fluff than chim, when chimmy is stronger than feros or fluff..

 

 

To me this all sounds like some want to get tons of xp w/o spending any gc/effort. Sorry to say, i have big respect for you, but somehow i think fighters want an advantage no other can get.

you have the auto alch and auto manu etc no ?

 

Maybe Radu should make a chance more towards the hitting of a creature, the harder you hit the more xp/hit. I dont know but as i said to me it sound rediculous if even a strong fighter will barefist a creature like the cimaran wolfs, it just doesn't fit in my view of roleplaying

the game isn't designed on damage based for xp. it is impossible to change, and lets say make attack xp damage based, how calculate the def ?

Edited September 13, 2008 by Michic0_oL

[robotbob]

I have a serious question. If the MCs and FCs get weaken so they can be boxed,

can I have the yetis lowered so I can box those too? At my ad, they would be much

better experience than an MC. Currently I cannot box them with pc 48 48. If they are not lowered

I will be forced to usurp someone's MC spawn out of my childish frustration.

[korrode]

I would say if you cant hit a creature for more than 0 HP then use a sword to hit it, myself cant hit a clops with a bone. does that make it un trainable? Hell no i just use a sword and i can do some damage, do i make uber xp? No sir but the oa i make is way more than i could ever reach doing other things.

And that's the difference.

I can make better OA exp on feros than i can on m/f.chim.

Your example is not an equivalent situation.

 

To me this all sounds like some want to get tons of xp w/o spending any gc/effort.

Then you need to go and actually read my posts.

 

Maybe Radu should make a chance more towards the hitting of a creature, the harder you hit the more xp/hit.

He should, i suggested it ages ago, he seemed uninterested and other members of the EL community told me i should go find another game if i didnt like the current hit/dodge exp building system, as that's 'the way EL is'.

 

EDIT:

I have a serious question. If the MCs and FCs get weaken so they can be boxed,

can I have the yetis lowered so I can box those too? At my ad, they would be much

better experience than an MC. Currently I cannot box them with pc 48 48.

Possibly a good idea.

Radu stated that he wanted a/d softcapped at ~150 a/d. Yeti is 125/125 a/d, that extra 10 a/d over m.chim may make leveling above ~150 a/d too "easy", but tbh i'm not sure, i'd have to do some calcs.

 

If they are not loweredI will be forced to usurp someone's MC spawn out of my childish frustration.

Attempt to belittle me all you like, but for every a/d trainer who thinks the current situation is "fine", but thinks it's "not fine" after i serp them, i'll consider the serping well worth it.

Edited September 13, 2008 by Korrode

[Michic0_oL]

I have a serious question. If the MCs and FCs get weaken so they can be boxed,

can I have the yetis lowered so I can box those too? At my ad, they would be much

better experience than an MC. Currently I cannot box them with pc 48 48. If they are not lowered

I will be forced to usurp someone's MC spawn out of my childish frustration.

mcw was boxable before cap, yeti wasn't, this is in no way comparable. And yeti was designed to be multied not the chims.

[Gohan]

let's reduce chimmy stats so 80 a/d noobs can come hog the chimmies

lmfao @ the idea of an 80's a/d person training chims since 48 cap.

u r n00b.

 

O rly? Tell you what, you're trying to reduce chimmy into what it was before. Weaker than how they are now. I used to go at chimmies with approx 40/50 p/c before tit plates/steel plates and great swords. And not really have that much of a hard time at all. And that was when I was 80s. If they do make these as weak as you want them, I don't see why a n00b in 80s wouldn't go for chims in a tit plate with cutty, I mean, if they don't mind doing that on fluffy in 70s, I wouldn't mind doing that to chimmies in 80s.

 

Stick it up yours, Korrode, I play by the least as long as you do and I know quite well what I am talking about and I don't really give a shit at all about how intelligent you are, how many supposedly better combat systems you've already written, how many pages of essays you write on some game. I have my own experiences and I do not take it you call me a n00b, especially if you consider that I don't normally speak up much unless I am sure what I'm on about. And I'm sure enough of what I say here.

 

-Gohan

[korrode]

O rly? Tell you what, you're trying to reduce chimmy into what it was before.

"Before"... "before" when? "before" what? I only want their toughness/armor lowered. Not all their other stats.

 

I used to go at chimmies with approx 40/50 p/c before tit plates/steel plates and great swords. And not really have that much of a hard time at all. And that was when I was 80s.

See above.

 

As to your other comments... my response would get this post deleted... u know where u can go post if u want to get into it with me on the subject of your n00bness.

[Walt-Her]

OK, so if i read all the essays well it is in short:

fight fluff at 70's, till 90's then max get right p/c and kick feros. After that its nothing unless you are fine with less a-d/hr.?

 

i think radu shouldn't make chims weaker than, but fluff and feros tougher so you will need great sword to start fighting them, and make the gap between feros and chims smaller. Ad a cyclops little brother or an ogre's wife to fill the gap between ogre/clops/armed orc and every fighter wouldn't have to stay on one creature for ages too.

 

It really is ridiculous that every a/d trainer belittles the fighter who uses a sword or any kind of weapon. If you talk to any new player they are all proud when they can kill a creature that is just that bit stronger than the one before, they don't know how to a/d lvl yet but they have way more fun playing than those who think they should be able to stay at a spawn hitting a creature for 1hp/hit and dodge all attacks. It has nothing to do with any kind of role play if some1 has 4 DC' s on him and heal the creatures because they die too soon.

[Michic0_oL]

OK, so if i read all the essays well it is in short:

fight fluff at 70's, till 90's then max get right p/c and kick feros. After that its nothing unless you are fine with less a-d/hr.?

yes, this is exactly the point >.< we don't even get same xp/h we get lower if we start training chims wtf? moreover supplies on training chim are way more costly : break, essence and things... so why train them if its to pay more and get even less xp? simply no point.

 

 

#remove chim if we don't change them imo ^^and put feros fluff instead...

Edited September 13, 2008 by Michic0_oL

[Gohan]

O rly? Tell you what, you're trying to reduce chimmy into what it was before.

"Before"... "before" when? "before" what? I only want their toughness/armor lowered. Not all their other stats.

 

Oops? Exactly your problem.

And no, but don't talk from your high horse to me because you supposedly have so much knowledge, I speak from personal experience and I have seen enough in EL to know what I'm on about, I also qualify into your 110+ a/d with 48/48 p/c experience, so I'll speak up here while you disqualify many others from the subject because they don't reach up to your highness. ;*(

 

-Gohan

[Ermabwed]

OK, so if i read all the essays well it is in short:

fight fluff at 70's, till 90's then max get right p/c and kick feros. After that its nothing unless you are fine with less a-d/hr.?

yes, this is exactly the point >.< we don't even get same xp/h we get lower if we start training chims wtf? moreover supplies on training chim are way more costly : break, essence and things... so why train them if its to pay more and get even less xp? simply no point.

Exactly what might be intended: stop training, start PKing/doing something else instead. Move the soft-cap to 130 and make it a hard, i.e. real one. Anyways, will probably start a new thread about this

[asgnny]

If they are not loweredI will be forced to usurp someone's MC spawn out of my childish frustration.

Attempt to belittle me all you like, but for every a/d trainer who thinks the current situation is "fine", but thinks it's "not fine" after i serp them, i'll consider the serping well worth it.

What happened to a fair and balanced community service 'project'? Bullying people by threat of serping their spawn unless they agree with you is total crap. I don't think the current situation is "fine", but that has nothing to do with forest or mountain chims. Try training on the same monster for 1.5 years while making no headway as far as blocking better (without any higher monster remotely trainable). I guess I'll see you at my yeti spawn, serp in hand, since we seem to disagree.

Edited September 13, 2008 by asgnny

[Michic0_oL]

OK, so if i read all the essays well it is in short:

fight fluff at 70's, till 90's then max get right p/c and kick feros. After that its nothing unless you are fine with less a-d/hr.?

yes, this is exactly the point >.< we don't even get same xp/h we get lower if we start training chims wtf? moreover supplies on training chim are way more costly : break, essence and things... so why train them if its to pay more and get even less xp? simply no point.

Exactly what might be intended: stop training, start PKing/doing something else instead. Move the soft-cap to 130 and make it a hard, i.e. real one. Anyways, will probably start a new thread about this

there aer already more than 50 people above 130 we cannot go back >.>

[Siarato]

OK, so if i read all the essays well it is in short:

fight fluff at 70's, till 90's then max get right p/c and kick feros. After that its nothing unless you are fine with less a-d/hr.?

yes, this is exactly the point >.< we don't even get same xp/h we get lower if we start training chims wtf? moreover supplies on training chim are way more costly : break, essence and things... so why train them if its to pay more and get even less xp? simply no point.

Exactly what might be intended: stop training, start PKing/doing something else instead. Move the soft-cap to 130 and make it a hard, i.e. real one. Anyways, will probably start a new thread about this

there aer already more than 50 people above 130 we cannot go back >.>

 

Says who? I wouldn't object to a 130s a/d cap even though i'd lose over 20 levels and from talking to other ppl over 130s i don't think they'd object that much either

[Michic0_oL]

OK, so if i read all the essays well it is in short:

fight fluff at 70's, till 90's then max get right p/c and kick feros. After that its nothing unless you are fine with less a-d/hr.?

yes, this is exactly the point >.< we don't even get same xp/h we get lower if we start training chims wtf? moreover supplies on training chim are way more costly : break, essence and things... so why train them if its to pay more and get even less xp? simply no point.

Exactly what might be intended: stop training, start PKing/doing something else instead. Move the soft-cap to 130 and make it a hard, i.e. real one. Anyways, will probably start a new thread about this

there aer already more than 50 people above 130 we cannot go back >.>

 

Says who? I wouldn't object to a 130s a/d cap even though i'd lose over 20 levels and from talking to other ppl over 130s i don't think they'd object that much either

lol well go for it ^^i never suggested a cap on a/d because of people like mp/gnny aesop who are at 140s+ lol ^^ they work they did for it is huge so...

[asgnny]

OK, so if i read all the essays well it is in short:

fight fluff at 70's, till 90's then max get right p/c and kick feros. After that its nothing unless you are fine with less a-d/hr.?

yes, this is exactly the point >.< we don't even get same xp/h we get lower if we start training chims wtf? moreover supplies on training chim are way more costly : break, essence and things... so why train them if its to pay more and get even less xp? simply no point.

 

 

#remove chim if we don't change them imo ^^and put feros fluff instead...

Better drops, available spawns. Just because fluffy, feros and desert chims give unreasonably high exp per hour doesn't mean it can nor should continue forever.

 

A previous poster in this thread claimed to kill 500 forest chims per day, while also complaining about 10 hours of waiting for a spawn per day. If someone wants to wait all day long for fast exp, at some point a player becomes better off training on a different monster, to maximize experience.

 

Personally, I can earn about the same exp per hour on 2 feros, 2 mountain chims, or 2 yeti. If chims are short-sightedly changed as proposed, I will be better off dropping back and hogging one of those spawns all day. Players on feros and desert chims will be better off moving up. All of a sudden we have players yet again complaining about waits at spawns, and "only" killing 500 per day. All in all, the situation will get worse.

[korrode]

What happened to a fair and balanced community service 'project'?

I started no "project". i said just a few posts ago that it's BS that we need a 'community project' to get these changes made.

 

 

Bullying people by threat of serping their spawn unless they agree with you is total crap.

Where did i say i wouldn't serp if they agree with me? i'm not making any distinction between those whose agree with me and those who dont. I just said (effectively) that it's well worth it if some who didn't see a need for change does afterward. My key concern is getting the exp i want at the p/c i want... i'm through with "community rules", i dont restrict my advancement in any other multiplayer game due to any 'rules' that are not official game rules.

 

I don't think the current situation is "fine", but that has nothing to do with forest or mountain chims.

So, where's you detailed suggestion on what changes are needed to make it "fine"?

 

Try training on the same monster for 1.5 years while making no headway as far as blocking better (without any higher monster remotely trainable).

Sounds like you've got concerns of your own that you should be trying to have addressed. Dont hold it against me that i take an active and aggressive stance, but you seemingly dont.

 

I guess I'll see you at my yeti spawn, serp in hand

I haven't at all kept track of yeti spawns, as they're of no concern to me, yet. But if it turns out there's only 1 worthwhile yeti spawn in the game, then pending further investigation of the situation with yetis, yep, u might see me there

 

since we seem to disagree.

Well, you said you agree that things are not "fine", so just how much do we disagree on?

I must say that i am surprised to see you against my suggested changes to chims, Asgnny. I would be quite interested to hear why your against them, and your counters to my arguments, in detail.

 

...i sincerely hope it's not a case of "it's shit for me on yeti so it should be shit for you on chims".

[Ambrosius]

I have a serious question. If the MCs and FCs get weaken so they can be boxed,

can I have the yetis lowered so I can box those too? At my ad, they would be much

better experience than an MC. Currently I cannot box them with pc 48 48. If they are not lowered

I will be forced to usurp someone's MC spawn out of my childish frustration.

mcw was boxable before cap, yeti wasn't, this is in no way comparable. And yeti was designed to be multied not the chims.

 

LoL,

 

Yeti was boxable...got many lvls like that....400-440K per hour aswell on double spawn...but now with cap its not possible anymore. They r good for 1 thing now...orcslayering them for gc -_-

 

So yeah...id like yeti changed aswell