The Chim Project

[Cruella]

The Chim Project is devoted to make a rational use of the invasion tokens for the benefit of the EL community.

 

An author of chim changes ideas is Korrode, and here is what these changes are all about:

 

Korrode's ultra sensical chim changes recommendations:

 

1. reduce m.chim and f.chim armor and toughness to be the same as d.chims.

2. reduce d.chim re-spawn to be the same as fluffy.

3. reduce f.chim and m.chim respawn to be the same as feros.

 

The outcome of these changes would be:

 

1. Bethel and Tirnym will be able to be used by more people at once, the 1 spawn per person rule will apply (you cant really argue that it should/does apply now because 1 chim spawn gives less exp than 1 fluffy/feros spawn) ... (and there'll always be what i like to call "def n00bs" who keep low p/c and try to monopolize 3+ spawns at once to make 500k+ (some people up to 700k) def exp per hour, but they shouldn't be making that much exp p/h anyways, no?)

 

2. Fluffy and Feros spawns will be less packed.

 

3. Anyone who's reluctant to PK due to the low p/c they've kept for fluff/feros training will no longer have that dilemma, they'll be able to make the same or slightly better exp per/h on chims with 48/48 p/c, and will PK more often... more active PK (PK'ers win), more rostos poofed, more armor broken (Radu wins).

 

4. Chims hit harder then fluff/feros, more HE/AE/SRS used (alcher's and potioners win), no doubt more armor broken too (manufacturers and crafters win).

 

Radu has agreed to introduce such changes at the cost of:

 

2 tokens to decrease the spawn time by 10 seconds.

2 Tokens to increase/decrease any attribute by one.

 

I believe that we can haggle a bit when he sees we are acting for a real community benefit

 

 

I'm posting this idea for a change and I donate one token to the pool.

 

If people like the idea you can support it by:

 

- donating your tokens

- donating gc's

- selling tokens cheap to those who support it

 

As simple as that.

 

* * * * * * *

 

To do list:

 

1. Korrode to calculate and present details of:

 

- which attribute points need to be changed and exactly by how much

- time difference in seconds between spawn times

- based on information above, total cost of changes (in invasion tokens)

- order of importance (we should introduce single changes in order of their importance as soon as we have enough tokens for a change, without waiting for all tokens to be gathered)

 

2. Discuss a method of gathering donations - either base it on written commitments posted here or gather tokens/gc's in one person's storage

 

3. If the latter is preferred, choose a trusted person to hold donations and trade tokens to Radu when needed. Obviously if we fail to accomplish a goal (not enough people willing to participate or any other reason), all donations will be returned.

 

 

4. AOB ? Suggest it below.

 

 

That's it for a start, now it is all up to the EL community. When replying, please be constructive and stay on topic - if you decide to participate only as forum posters who only bitch and moan, this project will surely fail.

[conavar]

Personally I would just concentrate on mchim and fchim.

 

Because unless Bethel is made single combat, having dc's spawn faster is wasted tokens, since someone will just take all 4 spawns (as happens now)

 

 

As much as I would like dc's to spawn faster for my own personal use, it just doesnt seem a practical use of the tokens with the current Bethel setup

[Michic0_oL]

Personally I would just concentrate on mchim and fchim.

 

Because unless Bethel is made single combat, having dc's spawn faster is wasted tokens, since someone will just take all 4 spawns (as happens now)

 

 

As much as I would like dc's to spawn faster for my own personal use, it just doesnt seem a practical use of the tokens with the current Bethel setup

make it single combat and pay back my tinf perk kk ?

[Alberich]

There are three ideas and one vote... so I have to vote NO.

 

About first idea:

1. reduce m.chim and f.chim armor and toughness to be the same as d.chims.

Don't like it!

There wouldn't be much difference between d chims now and your f chims / m chims then, they would be killable at d chim levels much too easy imo.

If they are too strong for you why reduce toughness and armor and not damage, matter and dexterity?

Or get all stats closer to d chim level to reduce the gap but not down to d chim stats!

 

Please explain why you think you need these changes so bad!

 

 

For ideas 2 and 3:

I don't care, if it helps you fine..

[Michic0_oL]

There are three ideas and one vote... so I have to vote NO.

 

About first idea:

1. reduce m.chim and f.chim armor and toughness to be the same as d.chims.

Don't like it!

There wouldn't be much difference between d chims now and your f chims / m chims then, they would be killable at d chim levels much too easy imo.

If they are too strong for you why reduce toughness and armor and not damage, matter and dexterity?

Or get all stats closer to d chim level to reduce the gap but not down to d chim stats!

 

Please explain why you think you need these changes so bad!

 

 

For ideas 2 and 3:

I don't care, if it helps you fine..

you should read korrode's topic before saying all this, and everything i said about MC/FC

 

First to get xp you need to hit, but if the damage you make is 0 you don't get xp. So you need to Hit + Make Damage. High armor and toughness will prevent you from making damage., you will hit but no xp coz no damage on the chim.

 

The point is that we are not trying to make FC / MC easy to kill, they are already easy to kill, just put on your sword. We want them trainable with regular stats. We need it to keep its a/d to have better xp than from DCW, but to have lower toughness and armor thats all (i was also thinking of lowering criticals because they are too high imo :] 48/20 p/v 120 def and full tit i get hit at 30s sometimes from MCW. Also reduce repop time.

[conavar]

Personally I would just concentrate on mchim and fchim.

 

Because unless Bethel is made single combat, having dc's spawn faster is wasted tokens, since someone will just take all 4 spawns (as happens now)

 

 

As much as I would like dc's to spawn faster for my own personal use, it just doesnt seem a practical use of the tokens with the current Bethel setup

make it single combat and pay back my tinf perk kk ?

 

 

Its what is good for the game TK, not me or you or player x .. If bethel stays multi that is fine (I like multing chims myself) but my point was reducing the spawn times of dc's would be wasted and the tokens would be better used else where

 

and on the fchim/mchim armour/toughness debate, yes maybe they need reducing a bit but not to dchim levels , that would be to low

[Alberich]

you should read korrode's topic before saying all this, and everything i said about MC/FC

 

First to get xp you need to hit, but if the damage you make is 0 you don't get xp. So you need to Hit + Make Damage. High armor and toughness will prevent you from making damage., you will hit but no xp coz no damage on the chim.

 

The point is that we are not trying to make FC / MC easy to kill, they are already easy to kill, just put on your sword. We want them trainable with regular stats. We need it to keep its a/d to have better xp than from DCW, but to have lower toughness and armor thats all (i was also thinking of lowering criticals because they are too high imo :] 48/20 p/v 120 def and full tit i get hit at 30s sometimes from MCW. Also reduce repop time.

 

If I got you right, you say chims are only trainable when they have the low d chims toughness / armor?

Well there happen to be people who train yeti which have much higher toughness / armor than d chims, well lower than f chims and m chims but still much higher than d chims. These don't have regular stats or what?

[Kaddy]

There are three ideas and one vote... so I have to vote NO.

 

About first idea:

1. reduce m.chim and f.chim armor and toughness to be the same as d.chims.

Don't like it!

There wouldn't be much difference between d chims now and your f chims / m chims then, they would be killable at d chim levels much too easy imo.

If they are too strong for you why reduce toughness and armor and not damage, matter and dexterity?

Or get all stats closer to d chim level to reduce the gap but not down to d chim stats!

 

Please explain why you think you need these changes so bad!

 

 

For ideas 2 and 3:

I don't care, if it helps you fine..

 

 

Alot of bad words came to my mind to tell you but i ll try to keep myself calm.

 

1. I have never seen you killing any single FC, which i kill around 500 of them daily.

2. You have no idea how it sucks when you both try to PK and keep you p/c low coz of training.

3. You have NO SINGLE idea about how it sucks when you max out p/c to train mc/fc on tirynm but there is only one spawn and ALOT of trainers, and you cannot get a spawn w/o waiting 10 hours for it.

4. You have NO SINGLE idea about how experinced Korrode is about these situations, he has already made alot of MMPORGs combat system himself.

5. and as last YOU HAVE NO IDEA about how that changes will help us.

 

 

So think again about these changes and post again, if you have no ability or knowledge to think, just try to stfu.

 

Thanks,

-Kaddy

 

 

EDIT# Oh sorry for offtopic, and for Cruella, I ll support these project till my single gc ends, if you need anything, just let me know

Edited September 11, 2008 by OldySchooly

[Cruella]

Thanks for support offer, we however need to wait for Korrode to enlighten us with details and give us info on a total cost before we proceed any further. I cannot help here since I don't know shit about chims, a/d etc. so he needs to drag his erm ... whatever ... here and post details. Remember that I'm doing this to prove that I'm intellectually challenged, that is spending my time and paying for something I'll not benefit from (at least not in a nearest future). I believe however that if we succeed with this first project, other ones might follow ... who knows

[Kaddy]

Sadly, you know Korrode is moving his house, and mostly cannot be on or totally afk. It will take a bit for him to come back

[conavar]

One thing to point out (if people are interested in such things), reducing the spawn times etc might also mean a reduction in gold and drops, personally I dont mind, but better to make a decision based on that it might happen, rather than moan about it after the fact

[Kaddy]

Uh-Oh, can you tell me how did you find out that?

 

Less spawn time = more mobs killed in a certain time = more gc Or am i wrong?

[conavar]

Uh-Oh, can you tell me how did you find out that?

 

Less spawn time = more mobs killed in a certain time = more gc Or am i wrong?

 

100% correct , which is why if to much gold/drops is coming into the game from the mobs radu might reduce them

[Kaddy]

Actually he can keep it balanced i think, i mean if its 3kgc/h from 2x fc, after the respawn time changes, he can make it still drop 3kgcs/h.

 

Not very hard imo.

-Kaddy

[conavar]

True and like I said I personally dont mind, just better if ppl know it might happen before it does, rather than after then whinge about it

[Alberich]

Alot of bad words came to my mind to tell you but i ll try to keep myself calm.

 

1. I have never seen you killing any single FC, which i kill around 500 of them daily.

2. You have no idea how it sucks when you both try to PK and keep you p/c low coz of training.

3. You have NO SINGLE idea about how it sucks when you max out p/c to train mc/fc on tirynm but there is only one spawn and ALOT of trainers, and you cannot get a spawn w/o waiting 10 hours for it.

4. You have NO SINGLE idea about how experinced Korrode is about these situations, he has already made alot of MMPORGs combat system himself.

5. and as last YOU HAVE NO IDEA about how that changes will help us.

You want to flame fine:

1. Just because you don't see me killing them does mean I don't do it!

2. You have no idea how it sucks to keep r/i low for training and still want to pk.

3. You have No SINGLE idea about how it sucks when you get higher level and the only creatures left to train are the f chims and trices.

4. I'm still waiting for a proof for that and why the heck don't you play it if it's so good?

5. No, but I got a PRETTY GOOD IDEA how the changes will hurt me.

flame aside

 

 

So think again about these changes and post again, if you have no ability or knowledge to think, just try to stfu.

Sorry to disappoint you but I happen to know the toughness/armor of chims pretty good even when I'm not fighting them.

 

Sad thing is, you couldn't come up with ONE SINGLE argument why the toughness / armor has to be THAT low!

I just wanted to discuss this but if you want to flame please do it without me, ktnxb.

 

PS: Just to clarify. I got nothing against making f chims and m chims trainable. Hell I would love to see it, because I hope for some benefits for me. Just not with the weak d chim stats.

[Kaddy]

There will be always whiners np

 

EDIT#

You want to flame fine:

1. Just because you don't see me killing them does mean I don't do it!

2. You have no idea how it sucks to keep r/i low for training and still want to pk.

3. You have No SINGLE idea about how it sucks when you get higher level and the only creatures left to train are the f chims and trices.

4. I'm still waiting for a proof for that and why the heck don't you play it if it's so good?

5. No, but I got a PRETTY GOOD IDEA how the changes will hurt me.

flame aside

 

 

Sorry to disappoint you but I happen to know the toughness/armor of chims pretty good even when I'm not fighting them.

 

Sad thing is, you couldn't come up with ONE SINGLE argument why the toughness / armor has to be THAT low!

I just wanted to discuss this but if you want to flame please do it without me, ktnxb.

 

PS: Just to clarify. I got nothing against making f chims and m chims trainable. Hell I would love to see it, because I hope for some benefits for me. Just not with the weak d chim stats.

 

If toughness/armor stays the same, you will never be able to box them, so you need to kill them with a sword, if you use a low sword, you can do single but hell long re-spawn time, if you use a greater sword like JS, you keep 2x spawn but very low exp like 220-250k/h which is way lower than even single fluf.

 

I didnt say those games are better, just trusting korrode's knowledge at this point.

 

If you keep your r/i low for training, you have no idea what is training lol. You have to keep p/c low because the more might you have to more you hit. I know alot of people that not taking coord and only taking r/i just beacuse they can still hit/block same but hitting low.

 

I'm playing this game for almost 5 years, stop teaching it to me kk? And yes i have pretty good idea about how it sucks when you get higher level and the only creatures left to train are the f chims and trices. Coz this is my 2nd char i made from 3/3 to top's.

 

 

Now, stop bitching about everything and try to be constructive.

Edited September 11, 2008 by OldySchooly

[Ermabwed]

Why should there be creatures for single player training past a fixed level anyways?

 

And just out of curiosity I'd like to see a list of the many MMORPGs of which Korrode has made the combat systems.

[Gampa]

If I got you right, you say chims are only trainable when they have the low d chims toughness / armor?

If you don't want to use a sword, which results in less exp (because all weapons have a damage range), yes.

 

 

Well there happen to be people who train yeti which have much higher toughness / armor than d chims, well lower than f chims and m chims but still much higher than d chims. These don't have regular stats or what?

Yeti's have more hitpoints than fc/mc and people usually don't train on them at a single spawn.

[Gohan]

Gg, not only can every 70 a/d noob come and hog fluffy/feros spawns nowadays, let's reduce chimmy stats so 80 a/d noobs can come hog the chimmies since they will take damage like shit when you reduce their toughness/armor. I was killing DCW at 80s a/d with a friggin serp before their stats got increased and before we had uber armors and great swords. Sounds like a "great" plan to have fcw/mcw all get stats decrease towards that.

 

I vote no and I know some people are going to screw you over on this project because they will refuse letting their stats get lowered. But enjoy wasting your money.

 

Besides, why does every monster need to be trained? Screw you all, take them as they come, don't whine that you can't stay there for 3592049201 hours without needing a storage run and bother radu for stats decrease on those monsters. Spend your tokens on some other crap instead. Like move some cockatrice around or something.

 

-Gohan

[Cruella]

kk, we'll ask Radu to maki it possible to spend invasion tokens on healing dragons during invasions

[Gohan]

Maybe in a year, I don't have mage stats after reset. ;p

 

-Gohan

[Alberich]

If you keep your r/i low for training, you have no idea what is training lol. You have to keep p/c low because the more might you have to more you hit. I know alot of people that not taking coord and only taking r/i just beacuse they can still hit/block same but hitting low.

I know it might be stange to you but I'm not the 24/7 a/d training type

Obliviously I'm training ranging which needs r/i to hit but pretty much smegs exp in training.

 

If you lower the toughness/armor so much they won't last 1/4 of the hits they do now even with the worst bow.

Which would pretty much smeg my training but thanks

 

And I'm trying to be constructive but the fact that it didn't even cross you mind that there might be people not training a/d shows me that you're probably unable to understand other viewpoints. Pretty sad when you consider you're playing 5 year now.

[Aislinn]

My question is:

If the argument to do this is for "the good of the community", why isn't a project chosen that will benefit MOST of the community? Chim fighters make up a relatively small portion of EL, the majority cannot even fight them yet.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not against "fixing" chim stats per se, but to do it under the guise of "for the good of the community" and then use that to insult and guilt others for not participating or agreeing is rather absurd.

I am part of this community, I can fight chims, but if I was going to pick a project to help the "good of the game and community" and wave a community banner over it, this would not be it. Nor do I feel that with this opinion I am antisocial and selfish.

[the_voice]

i voted no for both.

 

try to explanation:

 

in the last few years everybody got like 250k/hour at p/c 44/60 with ~105/110 a/d from a single dcw in bethel (if you ever got one of the 3! available spawns, some old players may remember this times well).

once you hit p/c 48/76 and ~115/120 a/d you moved on to mcw which gave you ~300k/hour then. i have to skip fcw because i was never able to train them coz i was already on mcw when they were introduced to the game. now the whine & moan fraction is done with hogging fluff/fero and asks to change stats of chims to get the same xp with only 48/48 p/c ? get real guys.

 

to my luck i was in the middle of a reset when the attribs cap where introduced into the game and i have to admit radu did a hell of a good job balancing the chims to the new attribs caps. i can say that because i got better xp from dcw/mcw then i had before caps on even higher a/d.

 

so i cant see a real reason for fiddling with the stats at all. and if you need fiddling then let radu do the job since he seem to be blessed with the ability to balance various mobs in a fair way.

 

and for a bit thread highjacking:

 

i would give away gc and or tokens to have a real mcw double spawn added in grubani maybe in combination with some more fcw (totally not selfish since i dont train both of them for ages).

 

just my 2 cent. but just overread it since im clueless anyway ^^