The Chim Project

[Michic0_oL]

P/c for them ? 40/114 or 40/124 ? people were mass perked unlike the chim @ 48/76 you don't need perks for this p/c tbh... still yeti wasn't designed for training..

[Walt-Her]

So in fact its not the chims that are a problem.

the fluff and feros seem to give way too much xp/hr

the fluff and feros are trainable too soon (with too low lvl's)

therefor there aint enough spawns for ppl to train (ridiculous bare fisting) on them and too high lvl's stay on them too long.

 

To force ppl to hand over a spawn maybe we should have a chance there will spawn a uber strong fluff(feros) 1/100 respawns. then ppl who bare fist them in aug armour will be forced to act quick or else get killed and free a spawn. next person who comes in will be forced to use decent armour and weapon to kill the mutant and start training (ridiculous bare fisting them again) till they meet the mutant again.

 

i think the game would be more logical if you cant fight feros when you are above cyclops lvl and fluff when you can do tigers in your sleep. the way i look at the game, there are 2 streaming's of monsters, the humanoids, gob's, ogre etc till yeti, and the animal alikes, from brown rabbit till Ac.

I think that the strong animal likes shouldn't be there for training, they are for hunting. the humanoids should be for training. And then we might need something between cyclops and feros or just adjust the cyclops and the armed orc to fill the gab between them and feros., oh and make a bigger different between troll and ogre too. hardly anybody train on troll, most start real training at ogre's at once.

[Ambrosius]

P/c for them ? 40/114 or 40/124 ? people were mass perked unlike the chim @ 48/76 you don't need perks for this p/c tbh... still yeti wasn't designed for training..

 

Maybe chim isnt designed for training either then?

[conavar]

A ) fchim/mchim toughness and armour needs reducing to dchim levels (imo that would be way to low,making them to easy)

man some ppl just dont understand.

I'm not looking to lower the damage they inflict, their crit rates, their dex/react, their a/d... all and any of those things contribute more than toughness/armor to what makes a creature "hard".

 

I just want it so the same attack exp p/hour thats made on single fluff spawn can be made on single chim spawn... that really is the key difference that would come with the stats changes.

 

Wouldnt we all

 

But isnt the problem fluffs/feros give TO much xp rather than chims dont give enough ? Just lower xp from fluffs/feros so it doesnt pay for us so called pr0's to train them

 

 

On a final note, to all the no-voters;

Unless you've actually been a 110+ a/d'er with 48/48 p/c, you should consider that perhaps your knowledge about the situation is not quite complete enough for you to be voting.

 

Been there done that

Edited September 13, 2008 by conavar

[Walt-Her]

On a final note, to all the no-voters;

Unless you've actually been a 110+ a/d'er with 48/48 p/c, you should consider that perhaps your knowledge about the situation is not quite complete enough for you to be voting.

 

To these unnamed 'reputable and knowledgeable' high level a/d'ers, please PM me in-game and tell me your reasoning so i can explain how you're wrong (once im done moving).

... but be sure you've actually read all my already provided documentation on the subject, it's no fun if all i have to do is send you links to forum posts to counter your arguments.

 

 

Oh wait, dam i didn't play for 5yr, i am only a/d 88/95, i cant barefist fluff nor cyclops, and i am not aloud to form an opinion on how others have stated they'r opinions here??

 

Now plz tell me why do you think that ppl who cant train/kill these strong creatures cant have they'r own opinion? someday i also am at your lvl's so in fact it would benefit me but i am not convinced it would be good for the game. I think there should be things chanced indeed, but not make it easier, make the creatures that are too easy now( easy as in give ridiculous high xp/hr) harder so the xp they give fit more to the lvl that creature should be. And yes that would fuckup my own training cos it will be long then before i could also get the ridiculous amounds of xp/hr.

Get over it, the game is designed the way you have to do more to lvl than at the lower lvl's. Why should high lvl's get they'r oa's as easy as the newbie? for whom the lvl's are hard enough already.

[Vanyel]

On a final note, to all the no-voters;

Unless you've actually been a 110+ a/d'er with 48/48 p/c, you should consider that perhaps your knowledge about the situation is not quite complete enough for you to be voting.

 

Perfect summary of this whole thread. The project is for the sake of community, but if and only if the community is 110 a/d with 48/48 p/c. I'd adding a short memo to the poll, like, "Do not vote, unless you are 110+ a/d and 48/48 p/c. Otherwise we cannot regard you as a part of the Eternal Lands community." Moreover, why this voting restriction is limited only to no-voters (with a/d less than 110/110 and p/c lower than 48/48)? Does it mean that yes-voters have more knowledge and experience?

 

All in all, this funny thread with all the flames, threats, bullying, bullshit, etc. is the best reason to oppose most of the "for the sake of the community" projects as they're hardly "for the sake" of anything than particular, usually small, part of the community.

Edited September 13, 2008 by Eiri

[asgnny]

The Chim Project is devoted to make a rational use of the invasion tokens for the benefit of the EL community.

 

An author of chim changes ideas is Korrode, and here is what these changes are all about:

 

Korrode's ultra sensical chim changes recommendations:

 

1. reduce m.chim and f.chim armor and toughness to be the same as d.chims.

2. reduce d.chim re-spawn to be the same as fluffy.

3. reduce f.chim and m.chim respawn to be the same as feros.

 

The outcome of these changes would be:

 

1. Bethel and Tirnym will be able to be used by more people at once, the 1 spawn per person rule will apply (you cant really argue that it should/does apply now because 1 chim spawn gives less exp than 1 fluffy/feros spawn) ... (and there'll always be what i like to call "def n00bs" who keep low p/c and try to monopolize 3+ spawns at once to make 500k+ (some people up to 700k) def exp per hour, but they shouldn't be making that much exp p/h anyways, no?)

Like it or not, I believe this arguably obscene amount of exp (especially in proportion to exp per level) is intended to even out players for the purposes of PKing. Why not just make these maps single combat and adjust respawn rate slightly. Drops should also be cut proportionally, of course.

 

2. Fluffy and Feros spawns will be less packed.

This will be the case only if players can get a better combination of exp and drops elsewhere. If spawns are constantly full, to the point where they are untrainable...that's because everyone else wants to be at those spawns for the same reason you do. I would rather earn 20% less exp on a monster than have to waste 50% of my time waiting for a spawn. At some point, feros trainers move on to desert chims. These players eventually move onto forest and mountain chims, or maybe yeti. Players do move on, can use any desired attribute build (not some arbitrary balance a single player decided is best for himself, and thus the community at large), and do earn less exp per hour. Again, not something I enjoy, but this is Radu's "soft cap" at work.

 

3. Anyone who's reluctant to PK due to the low p/c they've kept for fluff/feros training will no longer have that dilemma, they'll be able to make the same or slightly better exp per/h on chims with 48/48 p/c, and will PK more often... more active PK (PK'ers win), more rostos poofed, more armor broken (Radu wins).

This is already an option. People do PK. If people earn better exp on chims, and sure...let's double exp earned on yeti too... that way all the top a/d people can widen the gap beyond the poor fluffy/feros trainers. Since the caps, it's nearly impossible for a player to be too strong for a monster, aside from earning less exp due to a/d levels alone. It used to be that someone with 100+ coord would earn awful exp on fluffy by virtue of hitting too hard (too much might). Now, anyone from desert chims and up probably has the same might.

 

4. Chims hit harder then fluff/feros, more HE/AE/SRS used (alcher's and potioners win), no doubt more armor broken too (manufacturers and crafters win).

 

A few players already fight chims at any given time. Usually, it's one person hogging up 4 chims in bethel, and 1-2 people using Tirnym. I doubt many train in willowvine (forest chims) because a single spawn is currently relatively poor exp, and the monster can wander in any direction. If you *actually* want to allow more people to train, and use more resources, make chims in single combat maps, have them hit more, but spawn faster. Keeping high toughness allows for a wider variety of fighters to fight each given monster, rather than only being trainable by someone at approximately <insert korrode's exact build>.

[conavar]

One thing i pointed out to TK the other day in chan4 is: If chims are made to trainable and to great xp, wont that lead to the "bethel feros syndrome" of lower players moving up earlier and higher players moving down ?

Good luck getting extra xp per hour when you cant get a spawn

 

 

 

Note: one thing I would like to know..is how much xp per hour is enough ?, how much xp would ppl who want the changes be happy with ?

 

none of this "same as fluffs" numbers plz

[the_voice]

once again

 

if you move up from omg nice xp from fero/fluff to dcw/fcw/mcw you lose hourly xp aswell as you get better drops/gc. so its up to your freedom of choice if you stick at low attribs and go to pension on fluff/fero cave or distribute pp and be stronger in pk for the sake of some xp like ambrosius said already.

 

on the other hand it seem to be a red line going from anything higher then fero give less xp then the next weaker monster. but be happy we all suffered the same over the years. so you guys dont get less xp but just the xp we got. and if this wouldnt be wanted by the developers (someone once told me its kinda softcap) it would have changed at least 2 yrs ago already.

 

and really the best part was when tommyknocker was hinted as soon mcw spawn time become decreased it become interesting for the irl ebul rich yeti trainers again, he try to bring the removal of ts pot effect into the game (which was ofcourse hardcore used by fluff/fero ppl). so all in all it still sounds like meh we need to make us an environment to cheap & easy train next mob.

 

i still say all chims give the very same xp/hour as they gave to every person before caps even if you have to use some basic swords on them now. and using basic swords for the mid lvl monsters also make pretty sense at least it adds a little bit of realism. since i fail to see it realistic to "box" a strong mob. and since you guys get the same xp while using an iron sword or steel long, its pretty ok for me ^^

 

 

now i go back and wonder how we just could make it to high lvls with those so omg unbalanced mobs

[Vanyel]

now i go back and wonder how we just could make it to high lvls with those so omg unbalanced mobs

 

You obviously h4x, don't you?

[Ambrosius]

When i started fluffy i got ~300k per h from them which was very good xp at the time...then as my a/d and p/c increased it dropped to ~240k per h...by then i had the right a/d and p/c (40/60 p/c 105 a/d) for DC so i went there getting ~240k per h (mind you this was before TS and their increased health).

 

Got quite some lvls on them and when my a/d and P/C was good enough for MC i went to double MC/FC spawn in Tyrnim with small sword (because their armour was so high) and got good xp again (320-350k per h).

Got many lvls like this and then jumped to yeti.

 

I dont see why this isnt possible now.

 

I think the main problem is...ppl reset too much and leaves them with totally out of sync p/c compared to their a/d...and then moan they cant do certain monsters because their p/c/r/i is too low.

[the_voice]

When i started fluffy i got ~300k per h from them which was very good xp at the time...then as my a/d and p/c increased it dropped to ~240k per h...by then i had the right a/d and p/c (40/60 p/c 105 a/d) for DC so i went there getting ~240k per h (mind you this was before TS and their increased health).

 

Got quite some lvls on them and when my a/d and P/C was good enough for MC i went to double MC/FC spawn in Tyrnim with small sword (because their armour was so high) and got good xp again (320-350k per h).

Got many lvls like this and then jumped to yeti.

 

I dont see why this isnt possible now.

 

I think the main problem is...ppl reset too much and leaves them with totally out of sync p/c compared to their a/d...and then moan they cant do certain monsters because their p/c/r/i is too low.

 

amen to that \o/

[Michic0_oL]

now i go back and wonder how we just could make it to high lvls with those so omg unbalanced mobs

 

You obviously h4x, don't you?

he h4x t3h bank for free $$$ irl so he doens't have to work and keep playing 24/7 <3

[asgnny]

Bullying people by threat of serping their spawn unless they agree with you is total crap.

Where did i say i wouldn't serp if they agree with me? i'm not making any distinction between those whose agree with me and those who dont. I just said (effectively) that it's well worth it if some who didn't see a need for change does afterward. My key concern is getting the exp i want at the p/c i want... i'm through with "community rules", i dont restrict my advancement in any other multiplayer game due to any 'rules' that are not official game rules.

Would you like a sippy cup of warm milk with that? If you're going to cop such an attitude, you have my blessing to advance toward any other multiplayer game you choose.

I'd love to see you serp the spawns of each player who agrees with you in this thread in an effort to get more people on your mislead bandwagon.

 

I don't think the current situation is "fine", but that has nothing to do with forest or mountain chims.

So, where's you detailed suggestion on what changes are needed to make it "fine"?

I sometimes train on chims as they are now. Players weaker than I train on chims as they are now. I've killed every creature in the game, and have used this experience to determine what makes the most sense for my own build, or even mood at the time.

 

Try training on the same monster for 1.5 years while making no headway as far as blocking better (without any higher monster remotely trainable).

Sounds like you've got concerns of your own that you should be trying to have addressed. Dont hold it against me that i take an active and aggressive stance, but you seemingly dont.

I do try to address my concerns. However, I don't make a selfish outward cry on the forums under the guise of benefitting the community at large.

 

I guess I'll see you at my yeti spawn, serp in hand

I haven't at all kept track of yeti spawns, as they're of no concern to me, yet. But if it turns out there's only 1 worthwhile yeti spawn in the game, then pending further investigation of the situation with yetis, yep, u might see me there

I'll inform the welcoming committee.

 

since we seem to disagree.

Well, you said you agree that things are not "fine", so just how much do we disagree on?

I must say that i am surprised to see you against my suggested changes to chims, Asgnny. I would be quite interested to hear why your against them, and your counters to my arguments, in detail.

 

...i sincerely hope it's not a case of "it's shit for me on yeti so it should be shit for you on chims".

Yes. I'm clearly the selfish one in this matter.

[korrode]

@all posts since my last one:

I''m tired, gotta sleep, will respond to any arguments tomorrow.

 

 

One quick note:

And yeah we can make Yeti's and Fluffy worse, that'll work too.

Increase their respawn time and lower their health. Fine with me. It will solve the problem and make chims more attractive.

I still stand by what i said over a year ago.

If everyone wants to cry that the problem is that fluff/feros give too much exp, thats fine with me, along the lines of what Walt's said; hows about making fluffs and feros worse exp to make the chims worthwhile in their current state?

 

EDIT: (in that quote i said "Yeti and Fluffy", although on the same subject of this debate, the context and game circumstances have changed, and i am now referring to Fluffy and Feros... if my understanding of the current Yeti situation is correct.)

Edited September 13, 2008 by Korrode

[asgnny]

One quick note:

And yeah we can make Yeti's and Fluffy worse, that'll work too.

Increase their respawn time and lower their health. Fine with me. It will solve the problem and make chims more attractive.

I still stand by what i said over a year ago.

If everyone wants to cry that the problem is that fluff/feros give too much exp, thats fine with me, along the lines of what Walt's said; hows about making fluffs and feros worse exp to make the chims worthwhile in their current state?

 

As I understand it, the point in having feros and fluffy stats as they are now was to get more people within a smaller a/d range of one another, in order to liven up PK a bit. Feros autoattack levels were cut once (after the 6 feros were crammed into the Bethel cave), and TS pots were limited to -15 a/d (vs. -19). Weaker players can still rake in tons of experience. Stronger players now have a much harder time achieving an insurmountable a/d lead over the weaker players.

[korrode]

As I understand it, the point in having feros and fluffy stats as they are now was to get more people within a smaller a/d range of one another, in order to liven up PK a bit.

I believe making the chims worthwhile for training and removing the TS pot failing effect would result in more PK action and closer a/d gaps than the current situation.

 

 

...argh, gotta sleep now.

[Ateh]

if you make the fluffs worse experience you are taking away from others the opportunity you have already had to gain levels from these creatures, to fix your own matters of finding xp, which you want in greater amounts. Sorry, but fuck that noise.

 

At first I really liked the idea of people getting together to use invasion tokens, and the sentiment of it overtook the practical application of it.

 

I wish you hadnt posted Korrode because talk of ''my personal advancement in an MMO '' has pretty much made me see what the Chim Project is really about.

 

To the person I gave the invasion token to, please do not use it for changing Chim Stats. Lets save it for something that will really benefit a wider group of players.

[popeye]

Is this a Shitfest now? I say close the post if all that's going to be accomplished is shit slinging.

 

P.S. I still would vote NO!! if I had to vote again.

[korrode]

if you make the fluffs worse experience you are taking away from others the opportunity you have already had to gain levels from these creatures, to fix your own matters of finding xp, which you want in greater amounts. Sorry, but fuck that noise.

lol o,O'

...and what about all the people who trained m/f.chim pre-caps?

what about all the people who got levels on yeti when they were weaker? when they gave massive exp and huge drops?

So now you'll argue that it's unfair on me that i wasn't able to take advantage of those situations in the past? and that yeti should be changed back and attrib cap removed?

 

"to fix your own matters of finding xp"

omfg, as i must've said 50 damn times now ...i am not trying to get more exp.

Please, ffs please, read my damn posts. Instead of just reading half a sentence of one and then deciding the rest says something it doesn't.

 

EDIT: typo

Edited September 13, 2008 by Korrode

[Ateh]

Look if you want to change the stats of the Chims then gather the tokens and do it I just dont want the token I offered to be used for this particular change as Im now of the opinion this is about what you want for your own gaming experience.

 

You can try and post a hundred replys to explain why you want the CHim changes for the benefit of alchers/manuers/potters to, but frankly, thats bullshit

 

And about the pre attributes cap argument........whats done is done, I dont hear any mixers complaining that pre cooldown mixers have an unfair advantage. Plus its ust the way the game is Korrode , it sounds like your pissed off at those people who were simply of a higher a/d than you before the cap because they are at an advantage now ? Maybe I read that wrong, but it sounded that way.

 

Just save the tokens Korrode and implement your changes, theres absolutely no need to try and convince anyone anymore. This thread was started as a group effort, and if its not achieved it by now it never will. So go forth and change

 

P.S Life isnt fair, deal

[Ateh]

*double post FTW *

 

how many tokens to make korrode PK'able until he redesigns EL's combat system to fit perfectly into everyones character build ?

 

*edit* last post in any community thread from me, im not bothering anymore

Edited September 13, 2008 by Ateh

[korrode]

Look if you want to change the stats of the Chims then gather the tokens and do it

Never

I wont pay for this change.

 

 

I just dont want the token I offered to be used for this particular change as Im now of the opinion this is about what you want for your own gaming experience.

kk. i don't want yours, or anyone's tokens used for this either.

 

You can try and post a hundred replys to explain why you want the CHim changes for the benefit of alchers/manuers/potters to, but frankly, thats bullshit

If that is truly what you think, if you think that it's bullshit when i say that increasing fluffy armor/toughness is another fine option and would be much better for me than the chims changes, then frankly, you're a clueless n00b.

 

And about the pre attributes cap argument........whats done is done, I dont hear any mixers complaining that pre cooldown mixers have an unfair advantage. Plus its ust the way the game is Korrode

And if fluffy and feros were changed to be worse exp, than that would "just be the way the game is", no? Then it would be "whats done is done".

 

 

it sounds like your pissed off at those people who were simply of a higher a/d than you before the cap because they are at an advantage now ? Maybe I read that wrong, but it sounded that way.

You so massively missed my point Ateh, the ENTIRE reason i made those comments is to point out that i'm NOT pissed off at those people. I have never bitched or moaned about those issues. I was simply pointing out that your bitching and moaning ('you got to make pr0 fluff/feros exps and i wont be able to') is only as justified as any moans i could make about how yeti were in days gone by.

 

But i dont cry when the game is changed for the good, even if it means i get a disadvantage (unlike you).

Do you even realise that if fluff/feros are changed i would make significantly less exp p/h on any single spawn of a creature than i do now?

 

P.S Life isnt fair, deal

As is exactly my sentiment towards you in regard to changes that would make leveling harder for you than it did for those who came before.

[Gohan]

Loooool, this became one big laugh.

 

-Gohan

[popeye]

Look if you want to change the stats of the Chims then gather the tokens and do it

Never

I wont pay for this change.

 

 

I just dont want the token I offered to be used for this particular change as Im now of the opinion this is about what you want for your own gaming experience.

kk. i don't want yours, or anyone's tokens used for this either.

 

You can try and post a hundred replys to explain why you want the CHim changes for the benefit of alchers/manuers/potters to, but frankly, thats bullshit

If that is truly what you think, if you think that it's bullshit when i say that increasing fluffy armor/toughness is another fine option and would be much better for me than the chims changes, then frankly, you're a clueless n00b.

 

And about the pre attributes cap argument........whats done is done, I dont hear any mixers complaining that pre cooldown mixers have an unfair advantage. Plus its ust the way the game is Korrode

And if fluffy and feros were changed to be worse exp, than that would "just be the way the game is", no? Then it would be "whats done is done".

 

 

it sounds like your pissed off at those people who were simply of a higher a/d than you before the cap because they are at an advantage now ? Maybe I read that wrong, but it sounded that way.

You so massively missed my point Ateh, the ENTIRE reason i made those comments is to point out that i'm NOT pissed off at those people. I have never bitched or moaned about those issues. I was simply pointing out that your bitching and moaning ('you got to make pr0 fluff/feros exps and i wont be able to') is only as justified as any moans i could make about how yeti were in days gone by.

 

But i dont cry when the game is changed for the good, even if it means i get a disadvantage (unlike you).

Do you even realise that if fluff/feros are changed i would make significantly less exp p/h on any single spawn of a creature than i do now?

 

P.S Life isnt fair, deal

As is exactly my sentiment towards you in regard to changes that would make leveling harder for you than it did for those who came before.

I vote no....................And Ateh's no n00b. He's no ass either.