Temporary class system

[Wizzy]

Again Robo is correct.....

 

Back to topic..

 

Any perks in the futur for ebul mages?

[Entropy]

Other than possibly Microsoft, it's impossible for a software product to be in beta for years. EL is not in beta, it's in a normal state of ongoing software releases over time.

 

Google News? Gmail?

 

Any perks in the futur for ebul mages?

No such perks planned.

However, we will have an enginering ward that will remove magic immunity.

Since this was has been 'under development' for quite a while, those who don't like it can go fuck themselves, it's not going to go away because of bitchers.

[Wizzy]

Starts mixing ashes

[conavar]

However, we will have an enginering ward that will remove magic immunity.

 

Would the ward have come ingame if the classes had been implemented, or was it one or the other ?

[Entropy]

However, we will have an enginering ward that will remove magic immunity.

 

Would the ward have come ingame if the classes had been implemented, or was it one or the other ?

 

Would have come anyway, I planned it for almost 1 year now.

[Wizzy]

Could some one explain exaclty what is a "ward"? I am not familure with this term

[korrode]

Now before anyone starts with "omg teh pk is screwed forever" (which did enter my mind for a second or two ), Ent, can we have some more details about this 'ward'?

 

How exactly will it work? Will any person be able to use it on any person (irrelevant of any levels or attributes)? How much will it cost and what will the ingreds be?

 

 

EDIT:

To Korrode:

...

then sure let's put in a cap. Want to see the fight on just how many is enough?

Errr, the amount is the easiest part... remove the NPC... upper limit is 178+neg perks. Done.

Edited June 20, 2008 by Korrode

[Entropy]

You will see how it works when it is implemented. Since this is something that WILL be in the game, there is no point to give details and hear people bitching about it.

This thread also cements my decision to not ask players to discuss things, because it only leads to frustration.

 

Errr, the amount is the easiest part... remove the NPC... upper limit is 178+neg perks. Done.

 

Yeah, which is also very fair for the new players too, yes?

[bkc56]

This thread also cements my decision to not ask players to discuss things, because it only leads to frustration.

Are you saying it's hard/impossible to find 10-20 long-term, rational, literate players who could participate in a limited-access sub-forum and calmly discuss potential ideas and changes?

 

Conflicting, emotional, and irrational input is useless. But letting the pendulum swing all the way to no input is just as bad.

Edited June 20, 2008 by bkc56

[korrode]

Yeah, which is also very fair for the new players too, yes?

IMO, yes, its as fair as it should be.

What exactly is your argument? that keeping the NPC is good because it allows new players to catch up to older ones in PK strength? I'd think that it's effect is more so that old players can never be caught due to their continual buying of pp's.

 

Time and effort deserve advantages and rewards (i.e. someone who's playing longer or put in more time with have higher OA/a/d, etc.).

But the rewards and advantages should not be too much and should not decrease the value of strategy and tactics, which i believe pp buying does.

 

I also believe that a person who's been actively playing for 5 years should have very little character strength over someone who's been playing for 4, by that point PK skill should be what makes them the best. Of which your current exp curve already achieves, the only thing breaking it is the amount of pp's the 5 year player could buy in that extra year.

 

I really just cant understand how and why you are happy to leave a system in-game that allows people to eventually max out all attribs and have such PK strength over others, especially since that additional strength is not being achieved by leveling the figting skills (a/d).

 

I assume you are worried about how to deal with the people who have already bought many pick points, from what i can see the best way to deal with that is to do 2 things that you've always appeared to be heavily against doing:

 

1. Give 700kgc per purchased pickpoint back to players, or even consumable, sellable items to that value (if you specifically dont want it to be gc... if you make it HE/SR/AE's, u offer them resources to either sell for gc already in the game, or to use to level their skills further)

 

2. Do that 'reallocation-reset' thing (where everyone goes back to perkless, all attribs at 4, all nexus at 0, but doesnt lose their OA), but all with the bought pp's gone (i.e. people will only have as much pp's after reset as OA levels they have).

 

If such a dramatic change as an attribute cap can happen i dont see why doing the above would be such a big deal.

 

So everyone gets to re-allocate pickpoints and some people might be really happy about that, so what? does it really matter? it's not like they can do it whenever they want, it's once off.

 

Anyways, thats just my opinions and how i'd deal with it.

[Cruella]

I would be interested in results of a simple poll - what percent of active EL players do actually PK? And how many share your point of view?

 

My impression is that decisions cannot be made to please just a group of players involved in PK, especially in a situation where a separate server, dedicated just for them exists ...

 

Imagine a player who does not participate in any pk activities. Vitally interested in a presence of nexus selling NPC in game. Who based a strategy of character development on this NPC's presence. Rising skills to be able to produce hydro bars in order to purchase all nexuses that are non-combat related. Simply to become a good manuer, crafter, potioner, without sacrificing his stats. Not because s/he likes to be pr0 pker's but because s/he wants to be able to fight yeti's and giants during invasions in a future.

 

Would it be fair to ruin a strategy of such players by removing the said NPC?

[majestyk]

This thread also cements my decision to not ask players to discuss things, because it only leads to frustration.

You always say that, and still it always goes like this: you suggest changes, discussion (bitching) starts, you get frustrated and cancel the change, or things get implemented but differently just because. You could save yourself a lot of hazzle if you would just implement them the way you think they work out best. People would still be bitching, but they would have to try it, and if it really turns out it needs a change you can still change it a couple of weeks later.

Initially I liked the idea of "having a say" in what is changed, but in the meantime I am convinced it would be best for the game if you didn't ask for opinions. It's your game, if you want to change something just go for it.

 

Cheers,

maj

[korrode]

@Cruella

That aspect of the game would simply become unavailable to them, and they would have to adjust their strategy around it's departure, it's not like anyone would lose an advantage that others gain.

 

And for the record i'm not just against buying pickpoints, i'm against buying nexuses as well.

You wanna do every skill in the game? imo you should have to sacrifice pp's for that advantage.

 

EDIT:

I would be interested in results of a simple poll - what percent of active EL players do actually PK? And how many share your point of view?

So would I, maybe you're right and more share your pov, either way, it's poll time!

Edited June 20, 2008 by Korrode

[Cruella]

I uderstand you suggest a mass #reset or even server wipe, otherwise it would be unfair to all new players and those who haven't managed to buy nexuses yet but are planning to do so ...

[TirunCollimdus]

Robotbob:

 

I did not standardize the IQ test and I did not interpret its results. I posted the results of the numbers I get when I take it so you and your ego shit can kiss my ass. IMO my IQ probably doesn't put me any where near the top 50 of active players and it might be even lower. There are a lot of very smart people playing this game because it draws those kinds of players. IQ is simply a measure of how fast we learn anyway. Someone though always has to bring up the 'you think you are so smart' shit just because my posts are always well reasoned and they don't like to work that hard when they post. Do I tell anyone I am smarter than they are when I post? No I don't unless they start the who is smarter crap. Yes you insulted me so you expected a reply. duh. Just stfu bob.

Wizzy and bkc56:

Who was talking about the client??? The client is very stable and will probably change very little going forward. I was talking about the server. Did you not read my post? The server is where the major changes arrive and Entropy already shot your beta can't be for years crap to hell didn't he. He considers the game beta so that means you should too whether you are software developers professionally or not. Get over yourselves. The MI breaking ward will be another massive server change. I don't know how much coding it will entail but in case you aren't reading it sure is going to make a difference in game.

 

As for the pick point cap I would really like to know how many players actually have over 178 pick points already. I didn't think there were that many. IMO if you did it at all then the cap would be 178+ all of the negative perks added together as well. there are 56 pick points available in the encyclopedia and there are more on the way. Let's say 62 for easy math. 240 pick points total available. Has anyone passed this yet? I would really love to know. If not then set the cap at 250 and everyone is happy yes?

 

Tirun

Edited June 20, 2008 by TirunCollimdus

[korrode]

Yeah but Tirun obtaining 178 OA is a crap load harder and takes heaps longer than buying, say 40 pick points.

 

At the rate i've gain exp so far, it's another 18 years before i'm OA 178... considering i gain exp faster now than i did in the beginning, say it's 14 years... now consider people who power-level faster than me; say 8-10 years.

 

It doesn't compare.

[Tempest]

As for the pick point cap I would really like to know how many players actually have over 178 pick points already. I didn't think there were that many. IMO if you did it at all then the cap would be 178+ all of the negative perks added together as well. there are 56 pick points available in the encyclopedia and there are more on the way. Let's say 62 for easy math. 240 pick points total available. Has anyone passed this yet? I would really love to know. If not then set the cap at 250 and everyone is happy yes?

 

Tirun

just to comment this: 178 pickpoints is easy to get. let's calc like this: anti/ph/hs/hos/scotty/one. those are the perks that mostly every "pure" pker will have soon. 10 + 3 + 10 + 5 + 3 + 6 = 37 pps. 178 - 37 = 141 oa. so if that person has 10 hydro nexus every person with 131 oa can have 178 pickpoints.

 

hope i helped a lil

[TirunCollimdus]

Could some one explain exaclty what is a "ward"? I am not familure with this term

 

Not sure what Entropy's wards will be but this is the closest I could find on short notice of an official definition.

 

http://encyclopedia.ermarian.net/wiki/Magic#Warding

 

I have no idea who these people are or what they are about but there is another explanation of wards at this site.

 

http://www.phoenixphamily.com/displayarticle312.html

 

Tirun

[Pyewacket]

Psychiatric?

 

 

@Tempest...your example there quotes 10 hydro nexus. that equates to roughly 5mill gc worth of ingame hydro. Add onto that the cost of the removal stones for each of the nexus and you are looking at a truly staggering figure of gold coins there.

 

Now I am not saying its not a viable option to do this on a fast time scale but I know it did take me and my wife well on the plus side of three months solid to raise a mere 4 million ingame GC thru playing. Admittedly there may be faster ways by using a lot of RL$ on stuff from EL shop but even so, its no small matter or easily accomplished.

 

Why shouldnt such hard work/investment also have a payoff at the end of it all? Sure, it detracts from those who wish to use the "long way around" method of training their way up for pp's but lets face it here, theres no perfect balance to anything so just suck it up guys and either find a new way or quit whining. Alchers have to level a whole lot slower for high level OA than fighting trainers do, so the precedent is there already that SOME PEOPLE HAVE A FAST LANE COMPARED TO OTHERS INGAME.

 

I dont hear you complaining that you are leveling OA faster than mixers are and that its unfair your skill in a/d gives you this advantage, so why should you complain that someone thats prepared to invest in Hydro nex have their own advantage?

 

Sorry but to me thats just double standards regardless of if XXX player would become too powerful instead of you/him/her/ficus.

 

Leave it be.