Tutorial Quests...

[Koss]

Nice one bkc56! Makes me want to write some quests too! Maybe someone should make a topic in the Stories section for proposed quest ideas. Get everyone's juices flowing.

 

 

That's not the process, Koss. We have a quest team waiting on call for when quests are needed.

 

So you would be against having just the regular members throwing up something creative together like above and posting it for all to see, and letting the quest team edit/fix/change/do nothing with it?

 

Still would be up to the quest team to decide when quests are needed, but it would at least speed up the process and let everyone be able to participate in helping with it.

 

I mean...I know that I wouldn't like to be part of the quest team, but I wouldn't mind throwing one quest together to just propose...

 

Make sense? Or just to me?

[XaRondas]

The quests are boring at some point and need to be changed but i have another suggestion that may help everyone

 

this is it :

 

To trade with an npc u must fisrt complete a quest, it will be just for one time so u can "unlock" his/hers services

example: to buy books from C2 ring book seller, u must offer a ring of c1 and bring 10 diamonds or 10 AEs or npc will tell u to go to craft god and he will give u an quest etc

 

1. This will help new players to do more exploring

2. C2 npcs become more known

3. We can maybe have a list (at stats page) to see which npc quests we have made

4. More stuff will leave the game

 

just an idea don t shoot

[Acelon]

Nice one bkc56! Makes me want to write some quests too! Maybe someone should make a topic in the Stories section for proposed quest ideas. Get everyone's juices flowing.

 

 

That's not the process, Koss. We have a quest team waiting on call for when quests are needed.

 

So you would be against having just the regular members throwing up something creative together like above and posting it for all to see, and letting the quest team edit/fix/change/do nothing with it?

 

Still would be up to the quest team to decide when quests are needed, but it would at least speed up the process and let everyone be able to participate in helping with it.

 

I mean...I know that I wouldn't like to be part of the quest team, but I wouldn't mind throwing one quest together to just propose...

 

Make sense? Or just to me?

 

 

We have enough creative juice, we just don't have anyone to program our quests. If quests are on hold, why would we add more people, let alone have people throw out ideas for nothing?

[Koss]

First of all, I did not know that there were quests pending to be able to be implemented in the game. But secondly I don't see what would hurt about having users "throw out ideas", but I guess that's just me.

 

Back on topic though, I'm glad the Tutorial Quests are being re-written. Progress!!

[bkc56]

Actually, I was viewing this as an addition to the initial Tutorial NPC quest. It could use some updating, but as a raw beginner I found that quest helpful to get a few basics down.

[Entropy]

Actually, I was viewing this as an addition to the initial Tutorial NPC quest. It could use some updating, but as a raw beginner I found that quest helpful to get a few basics down.

 

For the time being, I am more interested about changing the way the tutorial npc 'quests' are, rather than adding new ones.

For example, some good suggestions are:

1. Replace the 5 flowers with veggies.

2. Replace the rabbit furs with gold (tell the player to kill the rabbits and sellt ehri furs and meat to the tavern).

Of course, the player can 'cheat' and get the money by selling vegies or something, but that's their problem, since the tutorial is supposed to help them.

3. Make the player only go to one tavern (Lakeside for example).

[bkc56]

Anyway, can someone make a tutorial quest, with dialogues and stuff?

BTW, there is no easy way to verify if someone lit the fire or not, so it should rely on cooking the meat.

This appears to be asking for a new quest to be written that involves lighting the fire to cook meat...

 

For the time being, I am more interested about changing the way the tutorial npc 'quests' are, rather than adding new ones.

And here you say you don't want one? I'm confused.

 

 

Edit:

1. Replace the 5 flowers with veggies.

Note that with a recommended harvest level of 20 veggies are NOT a newbie harvestable and wouldn't work for a tutorial quest that people could be doing the first day in the game. Edited April 28, 2008 by bkc56

[Entropy]

And here you say you don't want one? I'm confused.

What I want first is rewritting the current one, and then possibly later on expanding it.

 

 

Note that with a recommended harvest level of 20 veggies are NOT a newbie harvestable and wouldn't work for a tutorial quest that people could be doing the first day in the game.

I disagree, newbies can harvest it.

[Koss]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? Might take a little while but most quests are supposed to.

[The_Piper]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? Might take a little while but most quests are supposed to.

 

Of course newbies can harvest vegetables, but it takes a long time, like 1-2 minutes to get the first veggie. Even more with negative food level.

 

And as i understood the meaning of this thread is, to make the newbie quests more entertaining and not more boring, watching your char trying to get the first veggie with harvest level 0 and food level -30, might be not that good idea IMO.

 

When i start a new char, the first thing i do is getting some of the newbie bags in southern IP to have some bread. Then harvest 50-60 tiger lilies close to the garden with the veggie patch, then spend the next 2 hours to get 240 vegetables.

 

That gives you some nice harvest levels and pickpoints and a few gc from selling the veggies to the tavern.

 

So i would suggest (as a draft) a newbie quest like this:

Tutorial NPC: Hello <playername>, one of the most important things in this game is eating food. When your food level (the yellow bar at the bottom of the screen) is positive, you regain health, mana, continue to read books. On this island is some free food for newbies available, just go to the south, close to the docks and find some newbie bags with some bread and/or gold coins. If you have collected at least 5 breads, come back and i'll teach you how to eat.

 

(tut npc checks the inventory of player, if there are at least 5 breads, if thats possible)

 

Tutorial NPC Ok, you have at least 5 bread. So right click now until the cursor shows a pointing finger or just click on the pointing finger icon at the bottom of the screen. Then click on the breads in your inventory to eat them.

 

Tutorial NPC A good way to make money is to harvest flowers and to sell them to flower shops. This time, i am willing to buy once 50-100 tiger lillies, you can find them close to the house and veggie patch, north of the camp fire. Just harvest 50-100 of them and sell them to me for 0.5 gc each.

 

Tutorial NPC Ok, you know now to harvest and you know how to eat. There is free food available, you just need to harvest it. Go back to the vegetable patch, north of the camp fire and harvest 10 vegetables and bring them to me. I will offer you 20 gold coins for them.

 

Tutorial NPC Thanks for the vegetables, try to harvest 120 per hour, thats a good way to train the harvest skill, and so you get pickpoints to increase your attributes at the wraith. You can sell vegetables to any taverns to make some money.

 

Tutorial NPC Back to making easy money. You know how to harvest flowers, now harvest until your inventory is full and sell them to a flower shop. Go back to the Whitestone map, press the TAB key to see the map. A flower shop is the pink dot on the map. Just click close to the pink dot and your char is going there. Thats called map walking. And then sell the flowers to the NPC inside the flower shop by just clicking on the NPC.

 

Well, a draft, but i think, it might be useful somehow.

 

Then add the fire making/meet cooking stuff/making FE's too, add some fighting and newbies should be fine and not bored IMO.

 

Piper

[Atlantis]

Because, when you don't know about how the harvesting system works, it is not very encouraging to go over to a vegetable patch, click on it, and have to wait about 1 minute per harvest. If feels like you aren't even harvesting.

 

Newbie quest should be re-written entirely, imo. Other than helping you get some att/def exp in the final quest, they really don't help you continue playing after the quest.

[Entropy]

Because, when you don't know about how the harvesting system works, it is not very encouraging to go over to a vegetable patch, click on it, and have to wait about 1 minute per harvest. If feels like you aren't even harvesting.

 

Newbie quest should be re-written entirely, imo. Other than helping you get some att/def exp in the final quest, they really don't help you continue playing after the quest.

 

I am not sure if you are aware, but this is not the first tutorial we had.

We had a newbie island, with two NPCs, that shown you how to walk, how to click on things, like go inside a house, make fire essences, and many other things.

The instructions were simple, the ingredients were provided by the NPC, and there was an option to skip the tutorial and go to Isla Prima.

It didn't work too well, many people just can't fucking read.

 

BTW, there are very few people that do the tutorial, most of them won't even bother starting it. They just walk around, kill some rabbits, then leave.

I think what would help more is make the rabbits/beavers weaker, so they can't die from them.

[Sir_Exeus]

who ever wrote the review needs to suck meh nuts.

 

Here is what he writes

 

Why won't I be going back to Eternal Lands? Call me spoiled, but even free MMOs have to compete with mindshare, and it's difficult to 'dumb down' expectation of graphical quality and user interface sophistication. I'm going to be as gentle as I can be here, given that this is a for-the-love-of-the-game effort, but some snarkiness may sneak through.

Remember, kids, this is not a guide, this is not an in-depth look. It's a post about how the first hour or so of a game strikes me, with no preconceptions or foreknowledge

. Pray for Mojo.

 

 

Hour or so? Lets lookie here at his stats

 

DA DUDES STATS

 

Pro...Pro..

Edited April 29, 2008 by exeus101

[Entropy]

Yes, that guy didn't even play the game, just harvested a little.

But then again, it's a free world, if the site he writes his 'reviews' are content with his work, who am I to disagree?

[sywren]

Spending the first hour of a new game picking vegetables doesn't sound that thrilling to me. I prefer Piper's suggestion of getting bread, or perhaps lower the veggie level so it doesn't take so long for a new player.

 

Some of us found the encyclopedia almost immediately upon playing. Personally, I remember the fire essence walk through as the most useful and most interesting (other than smacking rabbits/beavers of course). The walk through in the skills section was very easy to follow and felt very gratifying, especially when I found that lots of people standing in VoTD storage would buy them.

 

Wanted or not, here's how I would redesign the walkthrough.

 

Part #1: Kill 10 rabbits and 10 beavers, and return to NPC to trade the furs for a sword

Part #2: Put bones and meat in storage

Part #3: Pick 10 roses, 10 red red snaps, and 10 sulfur

Part #4: Make 10 FEs

Part #5: Harvest a couple logs, make a fire, cook some meat

 

Personally I think this is more interesting since it walks a new player through almost all of the basics, including a few maps. At the end, the Tutorial NPC could encourage them to make more FEs and sell them and the bones in local chat near a storage. Most people will buy them and it encourages new players to interact with others. Since the community is one of the aspects of this game that is most appealing, I think it should be encouraged above selling flowers to an NPC, which is more of a grind IMO.

 

Of course, as Ent said, there are those who have issues reading. Any way around it, I don't think those people are going to finish too many of these quests anyway. At least this way those people get their sword, which is really all they want anyway. For those of us who can read, this teaches us most of the basics right away without too much sitting around, which is really the point of the quest

[kl4Uz]

BTW, there are very few people that do the tutorial, most of them won't even bother starting it. They just walk around, kill some rabbits, then leave.

I think what would help more is make the rabbits/beavers weaker, so they can't die from them.

 

This is a good idea! I watched the area close to the tutorial NPC and I saw many people dieing, which might be quite frustrating if the first thing you do is die and loose the little you have.

[Jaxbot]

Just a quick thought.

 

I know alot of my friends when playing games with dialogs, if they have alot of text, they tend to just skip it.

 

Yeah, so it's their fault. But it might be a good idea to have it in small sections, and entertaining (maybe some jokes? I dunno :/).

 

Weakening rabbits and beavers is a good one I think, since when can you die from a beaver irl?

 

I'm not sure about veggies though. I know someone once who completed the tutorial, but then asked on channel "Why does it take so long to get veggies? I've been clicking on them over and over again and nothing!".

(EDIT: they were clicking on them as fast as they could, simply stopping harvesting every time they started.)

 

I guess one of the big problems is that many people in the online world dropped out of school, or are forgien (spelling?) and can't understand alot.

 

My 1.5 cents.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Jaxbot

[Atlantis]

I am not sure if you are aware, but this is not the first tutorial we had.

Course I remember, newbie island was fun . Maybe could bring it back

[The_Piper]

I think, not weakaning rabbits could be a solution, but strengthening newbies. Just give them 1 or 2 more a/d levels when they start and they should be fine IMO.

 

And yes, it would be nice to have newbie island back, but unfortunately, if players are not willing to read what the NPC's there say, they are doomed. Even I managed it to pass Newbie Island and play this game. But obviously, others fail

 

Well, you cant please everybody. Like Murphy said: "If something is fool-proofed, only fools will use it"

Just my 2 euro cents. Just give newbies 1-2 a/d levels more and they should be able to happily kill as much rabbits as they want.

 

Piper

[bkc56]

Just give them 1 or 2 more a/d levels when they start and they should be fine IMO.

But then we'll get rumors and complaints about how when you reset you loose those "free" a/d levels never to get them back again (like some people say about the initial OA levels you start with).

[Entropy]

Well, you cant please everybody. Like Murphy said: "If something is fool-proofed, only fools will use it"

 

Actually, it was something like: "If you make a fool-proof system, the nature will make a better fool".

[Cycloonx]

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning". - Rich Cook

[kl4Uz]

I think we are all aware of the fact that there will always be new players who are either

 

• not able
  
• too lazy
  
• too stupid
  
• or not willing
  

 

to invest a little time to get to know the game. And honestly, I think we don't want any of them in EL. However for those that are willing and want to play the game, the tutorial quests/initial start could be made a bit more attractive and usefull. That's what I think we should concentrate on in this suggestion thread.

 

So far I both like the idea of either weakening the rabbits/beavers a bit or strengthening the newbies and the suggestions made on how to change the tutorial quests.

 

As for the "veggie harvesting problem": Veggies should always be harder to harvest than flowers. However maybe their recommended level could be reduced and likewise the exp they give. That might be a fair compromise, wouldn't it?

[Aislinn]

Part #1: Kill 10 rabbits and 10 beavers, and return to NPC to trade the furs for a sword

Part #2: Put bones and meat in storage

Part #3: Pick 10 roses, 10 red red snaps, and 10 sulfur

Part #4: Make 10 FEs

Part #5: Harvest a couple logs, make a fire, cook some meat

Of course, as Ent said, there are those who have issues reading. Any way around it, I don't think those people are going to finish too many of these quests anyway. At least this way those people get their sword, which is really all they want anyway. For those of us who can read, this teaches us most of the basics right away without too much sitting around, which is really the point of the quest

 

BTW, there are very few people that do the tutorial, most of them won't even bother starting it. They just walk around, kill some rabbits, then leave.

I think what would help more is make the rabbits/beavers weaker, so they can't die from them.

 

 

Just a quick thought.

 

I know alot of my friends when playing games with dialogs, if they have alot of text, they tend to just skip it.

 

Yeah, so it's their fault. But it might be a good idea to have it in small sections, and entertaining (maybe some jokes? I dunno :/).

 

I think these are excellent suggestions. Currently the biggest complaints are:

1. Where's my weapon? Giving them a weapon/armor right away is a huge incentive and makes the players very happy.

2. I died and I just started! Weakening the rabbits and beavers is a good idea. I don't think this tougher version serves any useful purpose.

3. Too much reading before they even find the tutorial quests, let alone once they get into it. Way too much information given too soon. Let's cut out the pointless game history and information that isn't going to mean much until they are further along into the game anyway.

4. Usefulness of the quests. FE's, food, fire making, maybe even some minor healing potions? would be a great thing to teach right off.

 

I agree we will never win against the ones who can't be bothered to read for whatever reasons, I also agree they probably won't last long here anyway and no great loss. But for the people who do care, I think these changes will make a world of difference.

[kailomonkey]

BTW, there are very few people that do the tutorial, most of them won't even bother starting it. They just walk around, kill some rabbits, then leave.

I think what would help more is make the rabbits/beavers weaker, so they can't die from them.

 

In the days when I spent alot of time helping newbies, I always informed newbies that doing the tutorial quests gives them something at the end, which motivated them to go start it. I can't remember if I suggested it or not in the end, but I thought perhaps just a name-change for the good old Tutorial NPC would help attract newbies. And the first text they see making it clear that they can gain items from completing it.

 

I think on average in games the word "tutorial" brings to mind long, boring explanations of what each button does. I actually think the tutorial quest is alot more fun than that, unless you lose the questlog with the flower coordinates But ofcourse alot of things you learn you do still get from talking to players, such as how to eat, ways to make gc, etc. But than that sets a good tone for a game of social cooperation.

 

Still, reworking the quests to keep them useful looks like a good plan. And in that I figured my suggestion might have some ears

 

 

Oh and changing from Tutorial to Help isn't what I meant, more like Armour Quest or a name appropriate to the re-written scripts people are submitting. And the line about the prize being appropriate to the scripts being written to, but clear on the gain "and I will give you some armour and a sword". Little do they know they will be gaining something much more valuable, hands on experience in hunting, dieing, harvesting, travelling and more...

 

or "I have armour and a weapon for you, if you can complete 3 short quests". The next question they ask is "will it take long" So including a time-frame might help motivate too.

Edited April 30, 2008 by kailomonkey