High level monsters adjustment

[Jaclaw]

thing that scare ppl from double chim spawn in tirnym is night which is very annoying, you can sometimes look half an hour or more for chim

[Acelon]

 

 

Fchims are removed from Kusamura ? I have not been there some months.

 

 

All the forest chims in Kusamura were moved to Willowvine.

[dejan]

I can only say what other people say to me, because i hunt fluffies most of the time - fluffies give better drops than chimerans, and also both mountain and forest chimerans give much more damage than acceptable. I hunt from time to time desert chimerans. They are not so tough, but fluffies definitely give good drops, so i am still hunting them, and probably will in the future.

[Burfoot]

thank you Entropy!

[korrode]

And it's not just might either, cause I get very similar results with a tit short, just less def

"similar results", the fight still lasts for 15 mins with Ti short? i dont think so.

"just less def ", ya, the question is: the attack exp, do you gain it faster? An hour barefist on d.chim VS and hour on them with steel long/ti short do u get more att exp, for the hour, with the sword?

 

And 5 might is not, nor should it be enough to go from barefisting fluffs to barefisting d.chim.

Fluff's have way low toughness, lower than clops, and so they should, they're a little bunny.

 

 

Anyway i can barely remember what we're arguing about or if we're even arguing.

Where you, and all the others that have said it, are correct is here:

the 180HP (as said more in this thread) is a problem for them.

Wanna make changes to chims so they are more used Ent? simple:

 

d.chim - 250 health

f.chim - 300 health

m.chim - 350 health

and a much quicker re-spawn on them all.

 

Even if just the re-spawn time on f.chim was lowered i'd use them after feros (the fact their att level is 10 more than their def is good for me), but as it stands now i will be keeping my p/c low and TS'ing for Feros for a long time... I would LOVE to be able to raise my p/c alot higher, would be great for me as a PK'er... just gotta lower that re-spawn time

 

EDIT:

If chims were respawning faster i would train on them. I don't care about the drops.

Chims also strike harder and destroy items but if i was getting better exp i wouldnt care also.

my feelings exactly Edited July 6, 2007 by Korrode

[Kidberg]

I would LOVE to be able to raise my p/c alot high, would be great for me as a PK'er...

 

I agree totally here

[asgnny]

I would LOVE to be able to raise my p/c alot high, would be great for me as a PK'er...

 

I agree totally here

 

You have the option to do so right now. As with most other things in EL, there are always tradeoffs.

[korrode]

I would LOVE to be able to raise my p/c alot high, would be great for me as a PK'er...

 

I agree totally here

 

You have the option to do so right now. As with most other things in EL, there are always tradeoffs.

Your previous post was so constructive Asgnny, whats the deal with this one?!

 

It seems that many monster types (especially some chims) are not really used a lot, people go from fluffy to yeti, without visiting the in-between monsters.

So post your ideas here, on how would you adjust those monsters to be useful.

Ent wants to know why we dont use chims, we're telling him. We want to have high p/c without there being a tradeoff, that exact thing really is at the core of this issue.

 

EDIT: Plus; having higher p/c and training on a stronger monster, and getting more exp for it makes sense. Why should we have to pick between being a good trainer or being a good PK'er for our levels. Yeti trainers dont have to make that choice, neither do people when they've just reached Clops and then Fero level. Why should everyone inbetween Fero and Yeti have to?

 

EDIT2: In addition; Yeti trainers in PK are like this elite group of untouchables, they see 3 people coming at them that are 10-20 a/d levels under them and they laugh cause they know the 3 of them most likely have fero, or even worse; fluffy trainer p/c, it'll be a different story when those 3 people have m.chim/f.chim p/c

Edited July 6, 2007 by Korrode

[mufossa]

 

Your previous post was so constructive Asgnny, whats the deal with this one?!

hmm this applies to thread HOW?

this is an attempt to tell you to stay on TOPIC!!!

and not to flame mods

 

 

i edited my post as not to create a flame war and flood the server with posts.....

secondly Asgnny is my friend and i was insulted by the comment..

thirdly i believe EL encourages its community to help keep things running smoothly

so, dont tell me NOT to moderate, you have no right........

and stop flaming and stay on TOPIC aiight

 

it is only a matter of time before someone (preferbly a MOD) comes and tells you how far from the truth you are (if im the wrong one So be it)

and LOL i tell you to stay on topic and you acuse me of trying to be a mod..lol someones looking to start a flame war imo

 

you made a pointless comment insulting Asgnny i told you to stay on topic..and 500 words later here we are so, im not so sure i started it..

anyways i wont be editing mines either anymore

Edited July 6, 2007 by mufossa

[korrode]

 

Your previous post was so constructive Asgnny, whats the deal with this one?!

hmm this applies to thread HOW?

at least the rest of my post did...

because your entire post doesn't.

 

EDIT:

nice job editing your post after i'd posted mine mufossa.

Firstly, i didnt "flame". point out the "flame".

Secondly, i couldnt care less if someones a mod or not during a discussion on the forums, it wont change anything i have to say or how i'll say it.

Thirdly, YOU ARE NOT A MOD, so stop trying to moderate.

 

thirdly i believe EL encourages its community to help keep things running smoothly

Thats what i want, the game to run smooth, i *think* thats what Ent wants as well, a smooth progression of monster training, where every monster is used, progressively. And thats what the majority of the content of my post is about.

 

so, dont tell me NOT to moderate, you have no right........

and stop flaming and stay on TOPIC aiight

I have more right to tell you to not try and moderate, than you have to try and moderate.

I have not flamed once, your alot closer to flaming than i am, and your much further off topic than i am too.

 

Post/edit again, dig your hole deeper

 

 

and LOL i tell you to stay on topic and you acuse me of trying to be a mod..lol someones looking to start a flame war imo

The simple fact that your post is before mine is clear proof that you started this, not me. I wont be editing/posting any more about this. Edited July 6, 2007 by Korrode

[sundulana]

if it is possible, the damage resistance of chims should be increased. as i imagine right now by how hard i can hit dc and how much dmg i get from them, when i no longer get hit often by them i would be hitting hard and make quick kills... then have a long respawn time. usually i only kill dc while waiting for fluffies in melinis.

 

Sund

[asgnny]

I would LOVE to be able to raise my p/c alot high, would be great for me as a PK'er...

 

I agree totally here

 

You have the option to do so right now. As with most other things in EL, there are always tradeoffs.

Your previous post was so constructive Asgnny, whats the deal with this one?!

 

 

I'm terribly sorry. The 700,000,000+ A+D experience I've earned over the past 2.5 years playing EL must have gone to my head.

 

From as far back as I can remember, there has been a tradeoff between pumping phys & coord and maximizing exp. Newbies are advised to use no weapon while fighting to maximize exp per creature. This same principle holds true from higher level creatures, be they ogres, fluffies, chimerans, or yeti. Pumping phys or coord up winds up being the same effect as using a weapon to kill them. Someone at 55 att/def who negs up phys & coord for PK will have a great deal of difficulty leveling up, as it may take only a few hits to kill an ogre. By the time someone with a better thought out character build is on fluffy, the pumped p/c character will not have advanced very far in attack and defense. It's a matter of short-term strength vs. longevity in leveling. This is, and always has been the tradeoff to which I eluded.

 

Think of this from the same perspective as taking the godless perk. Sure, you can win more PK battles for the next weeks, or even months... but down the road, that exp will add up, and you will be far, far behind. If it were always ideal to get phys & coord as high as possible, all other attributes would be useless, (aside from a bit of etheriality in order to restore health.)

 

The challenge to players is to determine the best build, and undergo the trials and tribulations of leveling skills and balancing the tradeoff of having strength in PK, not to ask for a 3000 material point mountain chim with 4 p/c.

 

This thread is to determine what needs to be changed to make chims more attractive to players. I propose that chimerans are fine for the most part (aside from a few minor tweaks), and that fluffy and yeti are simply too attractive. Let's not be greedy and self-serving in our demands, shall we?

[korrode]

I'm not arguing with any of that Asgnny, its all correct. I've been considering different options with training VS PK for ages, thinking about trade-offs, etc.

 

And yeah we can make Yeti's and Fluffy worse, that'll work too.

Increase their respawn time and lower their health. Fine with me. It will solve the problem and make chims more attractive.

 

I was just hoping we could make them more attractive using a method that wouldn't royally annoy all the people currently at the appropriate levels and p/c to train on them

[mufossa]

I'm not arguing with any of that Asgnny, its all correct. I've been considering different options with training VS PK for ages, thinking about trade-offs, etc.

 

And yeah we can make Yeti's and Fluffy worse, that'll work too.

Increase their respawn time and lower their health. Fine with me. It will solve the problem and make chims more attractive.

 

I was just hoping we could make them more attractive using a method that wouldn't royally annoy all the people currently at the appropriate levels and p/c to train on them

This game is BETA.. anything is subject to change at any time (dosent mean anything will be changed) but you cant count on everything stayting as is..... this is a learning process and they have to try differnt combinations of things to try and create a ballance.....as the game grows they are find kinks in the "food chain" so to speak and they have to fix them .....so if they have to make a yeti stronger or weaker or what the fuck ever then thats what has to be done

[agis29]

The question here is how to make chims more attractive for training. Not how to ruin fluffies.

If chims give better exp i ll train on chims. Of course we are not talking here about huge changes. Chims cant give better exp than yetis. Just a bit more than fluffies.

Some better drops would be welcome. I am not talking here about eles. Just a few more gc will do the trick.

I cant say anything about yetis cause i dont train on yetis and i have better things to do than taking antisocial to slaughter them with cutlass and pretend the yeti trainer.

Edited July 6, 2007 by agis29

[LevinMage]

 

And yeah we can make Yeti's and Fluffy worse, that'll work too.

Increase their respawn time and lower their health. Fine with me. It will solve the problem and make chims more attractive.

 

 

I think this is the most IDEAL solution and will end up kill two birds with one stone. I can only hope that Entropy thinks this is the best solution as well and implements it.

 

This will:

1) Force other players to consider trying other monsters that arent being trained on, which is what Entropy wants.

 

2) Potentially increase PK'ing, since they will actually have to use the dozens of free pp's they have to get an appropriate p/c build to train that monster, instead of having ridiculously low p/c and boxing fluffs all day. Then all the people who are complaining that they cant PK with their current p/c build, will be able to enjoy and maybe PK more frequently, which is something we all want as well.

 

Another solution from an economic standpoint which I think could work, is to decrease the benefit of or makes NMTs breakable again. Training a/d has gotten easy enough with the addition of NMT cape, which I thinks lets players get away with having low p/c. They can just equip full steel/tit, grab some HE's and train for hours on monsters that they have inappropriate builds to fight. People have low p/c because they dont have to worry about having high toughness, dexerity or w/e because the armor/COL they are wearing gives them almost perfect protection and they dont have to worry about the cost of it breaking. If people actually had to worry about having stuff break, players might actually use some of their free pps.

 

And it all boils down to this :Like asgnny is saying, this game is about work. I know it is easy to have a low p/c build and fight fluffs all day, but experience imho shouldnt be easy to get, it should be challenging. If I wanted an easy game, I would play something else. I hope that Entropy considers all these suggestions, in addition to giving chims better drops, and picks the most appropriate one.

Edited July 6, 2007 by LevinMage

[asgnny]

The question here is how to make chims more attractive for training. Not how to ruin fluffies.

If chims give better exp i ll train on chims. Of course we are not talking here about huge changes. Chims cant give better exp than yetis. Just a bit more than fluffies.

Some better drops would be welcome. I am not talking here about eles. Just a few more gc will do the trick.

I cant say anything about yetis cause i dont train on yetis and i have better things to do than taking antisocial to slaughter them with cutlass and pretend the yeti trainer.

 

Fluffy trainers can get about 300k exp per hour at a point where it takes 1.x million per level. These players can continue on fluffies getting very nice exp for a long, long time. [This is mainly possible due to the advent of better armor, CoL's, and true sight potions]

 

As for chimerans, their ignore levels are 121 defense for desert & forest, and 131 for mountain. The experience from a single chimeran may not be as good as a single fluffy rabbit, but consider being attacked by two or three of these chimerans at one defense level below their autoattack stops. There is the potential to earn far, far more exp per hour on chims than is ever possible from yeti.

[korrode]

This game is BETA.. anything is subject to change at any time (dosent mean anything will be changed) but you cant count on everything stayting as is..... this is a learning process and they have to try differnt combinations of things to try and create a ballance.....as the game grows they are find kinks in the "food chain" so to speak and they have to fix them .....so if they have to make a yeti stronger or weaker or what the fuck ever then thats what has to be done

Yep, exactly.

 

From as far back as I can remember, there has been a tradeoff between pumping phys & coord and maximizing exp.

Maybe it's time that changed, would make PK alot more fun for those between Fero and Yeti and i truly think it would make PK "better" in general.

Also, I'm reluctant to specualte on what Entropy is thinking, but my guess is it wasn't his original design and plan for the whole "PK'er or Trainer" attribute setups to be how it is, i dont think he originally intended for people to be saving up mass amounts of pick points. Entropy; please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

There will still be plenty of strategy to be done in attribute setup if we make the chims a bit better exp wise.

 

EDIT:

As for chimerans, their ignore levels are 121 defense for desert & forest, and 131 for mountain. The experience from a single chimeran may not be as good as a single fluffy rabbit, but consider being attacked by two or three of these chimerans at one defense level below their autoattack stops. There is the potential to earn far, far more exp per hour on chims than is ever possible from yeti.

Certainly, i know all about getting mass exp from being multi'd, i've earned alot more exp in 1 hour being multi'd by clops than any person ever has on a single fluffy spawn.

 

But i've also had numerous hours on end struggling to be multi'd... i'm just saying, having to rely on being multi'd in training to get good exp aint great.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Korrode

[agis29]

The question here is how to make chims more attractive for training. Not how to ruin fluffies.

If chims give better exp i ll train on chims. Of course we are not talking here about huge changes. Chims cant give better exp than yetis. Just a bit more than fluffies.

Some better drops would be welcome. I am not talking here about eles. Just a few more gc will do the trick.

I cant say anything about yetis cause i dont train on yetis and i have better things to do than taking antisocial to slaughter them with cutlass and pretend the yeti trainer.

 

Fluffy trainers can get about 300k exp per hour at a point where it takes 1.x million per level. These players can continue on fluffies getting very nice exp for a long, long time. [This is mainly possible due to the advent of better armor, CoL's, and true sight potions]

 

As for chimerans, their ignore levels are 121 defense for desert & forest, and 131 for mountain. The experience from a single chimeran may not be as good as a single fluffy rabbit, but consider being attacked by two or three of these chimerans at one defense level below their autoattack stops. There is the potential to earn far, far more exp per hour on chims than is ever possible from yeti.

 

I get 300-370 k per hour on fluffies. Why cant we enjoy fluffies the way u did in the past?And actually by making fluffies worst will ruin pk completely. People that are 80's will need years to reach 100's.Who are u gonna pk then?

When fluffies were giving all of you good exp in the past ity was nice. No that you dont need them you dont care and all you care is how to make all yeti spawns yours and gain even better exp. This isnt something against you assgny. I am talking generally how people in the game think.

Anyway the common logic says that chims should give a bit better exp than fluffies and yetis more than chims.

Edited July 6, 2007 by agis29

[asgnny]

 

I get 300-370 k per hour on fluffies. Why cant we enjoy fluffies the way u did in the past?And actually by making fluffies worst will ruin pk completely. People that are 80's will need years to reach 100's.Who are u gonna pk then?

When fluffies were giving all of you good exp in the past ity was nice. No that you dont need them you dont care and all you care is how to make all yeti spawns yours and gain even better exp. This isnt something against you assgny. I am talking generally how people in the game think.

Anyway the common logic says that chims should give a bit better exp than fluffies and yetis more than chims.

 

Actually, at the time I trained fluffies, I ended up with about 160k exp per hour by the end. This was due to no armor better than iron plate, no CoL's, non-stackable SR's, no NMT cape, etc. P/C needed to be higher in order to stay a reasonable length of time at a spawn. Thank you for pointing out how fluffies are too easy and give too much exp now

[mufossa]

 

 

This isnt something against you assgny.

lmfao i have got to ask ...is that misspelling of Asgnny's name intentional?????????

[agis29]

Well if fluffies give good exp then yetis give a lot of gc. I agree with u. So yetis that give even better exp should give less drops than fluffies. Would you like that?i dont think so.

And actually a pr0 fighter like you should want people close to him in a/d to have someone to pk .

The fact that i get 370k per hour on fluffies doesnt mean that others get the same exp.

Most people get 250-280.And maybe i get pr0 exp but my items are getting destroyed and the training is expensive.Its my choice.

Also by forcing players that are manuers,crafters etc to take anti will ruin the fun for them. The game isnt for fighters only.

[mufossa]

 

Also by forcing players that are manuers,crafters etc to take anti will ruin the fun for them. The game isnt for fighters only.

 

who is forcing them? it would be their choice (no one has a gun to their head)

didnt you say "And maybe i get pr0 exp but my items are getting destroyed and the training is expensive.Its my choice."

 

and i think we played ALOT longer then you so YES we know the game isnt for fighters only..and i leveld 77 manu antisocial when i had mufossa account w/ antisocial belive me their are 100 ways around perk..anti perk isnt end of the world for NON fighter

Edited July 6, 2007 by mufossa

[agis29]

 

Also by forcing players that are manuers,crafters etc to take anti will ruin the fun for them. The game isnt for fighters only.

 

who is forcing them? it would be their choice (no one has a gun to their head)

didnt you say "And maybe i get pr0 exp but my items are getting destroyed and the training is expensive.Its my choice."

 

and i think we played ALOT longer then you so YES we know the game isnt for fighters only..and i leveld 77 manu antisocial when i had mufossa account w/ antisocial belive me their are 100 ways around perk..anti perk isnt end of the world for NON fighter

 

 

The fact that someone is playing the game more than me doesnt mean that he knows the game better than me.I play the game for less than a year and i dont train 18 hours per day. I am 110 a/d and oa 122.

Also i am high in manu,crafting etc.

I know many players that they are playing the game years that are training a/d only and have much lower stats than me.

I know players that they were godless untill 100's.

The fact that u had guildies to help u doesnt mean that others can do the same and sell 10000 leather helmets to trik. Or maybe u could buy things with real dollars and level up. others cant do it.(i am not saying that this is bad-actually its good for the game)

Anyway i said what i had to say and i allready talked enough.

[hades]

The fact that someone is playing the game more than me doesnt mean that he knows the game better than me.I play the game for less than a year and i dont train 18 hours per day. I am 110 a/d and oa 122.

Also i am high in manu,crafting etc.

I know many players that they are playing the game years that are training a/d only and have much lower stats than me.

 

Its not comparable. Its much easier to level since COL and NMT was brought in game plus there are much more spawns and new between monsters and much better armors.