Disposable armor

[Thordin]

Let's give it a shot, we are beta testers after all...

[Guest Trojan_Knight]

Or possibly have it degrade to regular leather to offset the increased price, like you beat the extra padding off it or something. Just a thought.

 

I think out of all the replies I read. The above one seems to me, imo, the most likely canidate of which i would sway my opinion towards. Although, not sure if many fighters would actually use this, even some new people that play now. You will see walking around in plate for example. So over all, it would more less come down to "if enough people would actually use" this/these item(s) or not. Because many may not choose to use, and same for many that may not make them, if the demand for them isnt sufficient vs plate for example. Plus being it would take more to make would = more cost.. Maybe if offset the current costs of leather a lil would help this. But honestly I am unsure.

 

Regards

TK

[Lorck]

Obviously, there will be quite a bit of tuning involved. It will most likely take whatever ingredents the leather armor takes, plus one iron bar, and it will be as good as the titanium chain mail, but will have a break rate of perhaps 5%.

The idea is some people don't have enough money to buy the best armor, and this kind of armor would be good for training or for those trying to take out monsters over their level.

Sounds really interesting.

 

EDIT: By the way, the nexus required to make those new armor will be the same of the regular ones?

Because if it would be i will considere taking some artificial nexus, carry ingreds and make at spawn.

Edited June 25, 2006 by Lorck

[The_Piper]

Obviously, there will be quite a bit of tuning involved. It will most likely take whatever ingredents the leather armor takes, plus one iron bar, and it will be as good as the titanium chain mail, but will have a break rate of perhaps 5%.

The idea is some people don't have enough money to buy the best armor, and this kind of armor would be good for training or for those trying to take out monsters over their level.

 

And still requires human nexus 0?

 

Perfect, im sure, that will be a big success

 

Piper

[Entropy]

Yes, same nexus.

Of course, I don't think everyone will use them, but I believe there will be some demand for them.

[bkc56]

Based on the number of low-level fighters (50 health +/-) running around in full plate, I don't think many would use this armor. It's simply to easy to earn a bit more money and buy the TI-chain in the first place and not have it break so easy.

 

The way this idea would work is if the idea of having a minimum a/d levels for swords and armor were implemented (just as magic has required levels to do specific spells). That way a lower-level fighter couldn't use the better armor and would be forced to select between normal leather or enhanced leather (with a higher chance of it breaking).

 

As it is I carry three complete sets of leather armor when I go training and still often run out of one or more pieces. I wouldn't be interested in armor that cost more and didn't last as long.

[Bleuren]

cheap way to train

[Mr.Mind]

I don't know anyone who can't afford the best armors. Most people will skip over the lower armors anyway if they have access to the best ones, which they do. For the same reason as bkc, I can't see this being used.

[The_Piper]

The point is: human nexus 0.

 

So ppl who for any reason dont raise their human nexus can get better armor now. And thats the market imo.

 

Piper

[Requiem]

The point is: human nexus 0.

 

So ppl who for any reason dont raise their human nexus can get better armor now. And thats the market imo.

 

Piper

 

it just seems to me that fighters and PKers with human nexus of 0 is a really small market.

[Phawn]

The point is: human nexus 0.

 

So ppl who for any reason dont raise their human nexus can get better armor now. And thats the market imo.

 

Piper

 

it just seems to me that fighters and PKers with human nexus of 0 is a really small market.

 

 

I am one of those low level fighters. I can't wear plate, and I can't wear titanium chain yet. I am as I get more points adding them to attributes and nexus but it takes a long time.

 

Put this way, with the low nexus or no nexus requirement I would be buying it every chance I got, and would probably even try to learn to make it for myself and my guild mates.

 

Phawn.

[MagpieLee]

Would the leather eventually be something that can be made from say animal skins or would it remain something that can only be bought? That might have a bit to do with how popular the armor is for the manufactuers to make.

 

Just a thought.

 

Phawn

yes yes yes like the unused Skins sold by the fur Trader = Henrik (Larsson)

[Thordin]

Would the leather eventually be something that can be made from say animal skins or would it remain something that can only be bought? That might have a bit to do with how popular the armor is for the manufactuers to make.

 

Just a thought.

 

Phawn

yes yes yes like the unused Skins sold by the fur Trader = Henrik (Larsson)

 

Those skins are actually more expensive, no?

 

Leather is 4.67gc each.

[Requiem]

so what kind of artificial nexuses, manu level, and books would you need to make this

disposable armor (or do you have no idea as of yet)?

 

also, cant wait to be able to make leather, this will add a whole new market into the game and might

help low level manuers make a little profit off of the leather armor they make (and if you will need alot more leather to make disposable armor, this will definatly help)

 

 

1st

[Ghengas]

i like the idea....i would love a leather torso that is more protection than the current, i wear leather torso for pking because it doesnt subract from accuracy/critacals so better leather = awesome . It would have to be cheap to make and cheap to buy though as people would need to buy it in large bulks.

 

on the other hand, it doesnt really make sense that armor that gives more protection (meaning its thicker or w/e?) would break easier than armor that gives less protection...

[Guest ohmygod]

Leather armour is better against Thermal serps,(is this a trade secret? ooops) you also get get better attack/def rating too. (tit chain -1 a/d, Cuisses -1 def, Greaves -1 def)

 

Perhaps add +'s to a/d and it would become the new dress for pk maps

 

I like it for now as i have not seen the stats for the new armours (im too lazy to search for them). though don't know if i would train in it.

[Entropy]

on the other hand, it doesnt really make sense that armor that gives more protection (meaning its thicker or w/e?) would break easier than armor that gives less protection...

 

Of course it doesn't make sense

But then again, the real life is no different. For example, does it make sense to throw away mass quantities of food, in order to keep the price up? I mean, FFS, just give it to the poor, don't throw it away.

[Arnieman]

on the other hand, it doesnt really make sense that armor that gives more protection (meaning its thicker or w/e?) would break easier than armor that gives less protection...

 

Of course it doesn't make sense

But then again, the real life is no different. For example, does it make sense to throw away mass quantities of food, in order to keep the price up? I mean, FFS, just give it to the poor, don't throw it away.

Off-topic: There are some programs (rather few, but some) that actually do what you say - give the food to the poor. Mind you, a lot still does get thrown away to keep the price up - better than Microsoft/Exxon-Mobil styled farming, tho.

 

On-topic: So, you use more material (more cost), to make a more fragile armor (more needed), and this is supposed to be profitable to either side... how?

 

As a manuer, I don't see how an armor that is more expensive to make will be more readily sold...

 

As a fighter (nonPK), I can't comment on PK battles - but against monsters, how is a more expensive armor that breaks more often gonna be profitable to me?

 

Personally, I would support it if you could make an armor with less ingreds, get a slightly worse armor, with a few plusses, that was more fragile, and/or an armor with slightly more ingreds, with a better defensive capability and sturdier. More material + more fragile armor = not very profitable for anyone, as I see it.

[CelticLady]

Obviously, there will be quite a bit of tuning involved. It will most likely take whatever ingredents the leather armor takes, plus one iron bar, and it will be as good as the titanium chain mail, but will have a break rate of perhaps 5%.

The idea is some people don't have enough money to buy the best armor, and this kind of armor would be good for training or for those trying to take out monsters over their level.

 

 

Yes, same nexus.

Of course, I don't think everyone will use them, but I believe there will be some demand for them.

 

If I understand this correctly then I can see the possibility of there being some demand for this type of armor. First off, very beginning players that haven't found the wonders of flower picking yet would be able to purchase and utilize this armor for a fraction of the cost of titanium chain but with the same benefits. With the higher breakage rate they would have to purchase them more often. Second, as Ghengas stated, some pk'ers do wear leather armor so they may opt for this armor as it would offer more protection at a lower cost.

 

on the other hand, it doesnt really make sense that armor that gives more protection (meaning its thicker or w/e?) would break easier than armor that gives less protection...

 

Of course it doesn't make sense

But then again, the real life is no different. For example, does it make sense to throw away mass quantities of food, in order to keep the price up? I mean, FFS, just give it to the poor, don't throw it away.

Off-topic: There are some programs (rather few, but some) that actually do what you say - give the food to the poor. Mind you, a lot still does get thrown away to keep the price up - better than Microsoft/Exxon-Mobil styled farming, tho.

 

On-topic: So, you use more material (more cost), to make a more fragile armor (more needed), and this is supposed to be profitable to either side... how?

 

As a manuer, I don't see how an armor that is more expensive to make will be more readily sold...

 

As a fighter (nonPK), I can't comment on PK battles - but against monsters, how is a more expensive armor that breaks more often gonna be profitable to me?

 

Personally, I would support it if you could make an armor with less ingreds, get a slightly worse armor, with a few plusses, that was more fragile, and/or an armor with slightly more ingreds, with a better defensive capability and sturdier. More material + more fragile armor = not very profitable for anyone, as I see it.

 

From my perspective I can see where this could be profitable if it only adds an iron bar and maybe another leather/thread, but it would depend on what the final breakage rate was determined to be. If it breaks too often then people will probably just skip it and either use leather or steel chain.

 

On the other hand, if it doesn't break often enough then it could seriously cut into the steel/titanium chain market. I make decent profit on both steel and titanium chain. It wouldn't help me out one bit if my sales shifted more towards an armor that I would have to sell in a much larger quantity to make the same profit. Especially if said armor is easily made by lower level manufacturers. That would add something else for them to make a profit off of and help level, but if it pulls away from higher level armor sales then it stabs them in the foot later on.

[ttlanhil]

First off, very beginning players that haven't found the wonders of flower picking yet would be able to purchase and utilize this armor for a fraction of the cost of titanium chain but with the same benefits. With the higher breakage rate they would have to purchase them more often.

and since they haven't discovered flower power yet, how are they gonna buy enough disposable armour?

Second, as Ghengas stated, some pk'ers do wear leather armor so they may opt for this armor as it would offer more protection at a lower cost.

depending on the reason, the higher level ones of those may end up changing to tit plate, based on the advantages planned for it

So, you use more material (more cost), to make a more fragile armor (more needed), and this is supposed to be profitable to either side... how?

because it's still cheaper than making the chain it's equivalent to in protection. if it sells, then there's profit in the making of it. as for wearing, depends on how often it breaks... and that will determine the market (a couple more points in protection may not help at all... knowing your armour won't break in a fight may be more important than extra defence. how many of yawl get annoyed when your gear breaks? even if it's just leather pants and you can afford to buy more?)

[Torbenj]

I woulden't use this armor because of the high breakrate. As it is now a normal trainingsession is over for me when i broke my stock of 1 of my armorparts. This normally happens b4 im out of He and srs.

But if you could make thiese new armors stackable i would buy them as candy, or make them myself

[CelticLady]

First off, very beginning players that haven't found the wonders of flower picking yet would be able to purchase and utilize this armor for a fraction of the cost of titanium chain but with the same benefits. With the higher breakage rate they would have to purchase them more often.

and since they haven't discovered flower power yet, how are they gonna buy enough disposable armour?

 

How? Well, considering it won't take much more than leather armor ingreds-wise I don't see why they can't sell some raw meat from all the bunnies and beavers they kill to have enough for this armor. I found market channel way before I found out about the ebul lupine/lilac bushes and was selling raw meat to players rather than the tavern within a week of when I started playing. Raw meat sold to players = disposable (or whatever you wanna call it) leather armor. Ebul lupine/lilac bush(for hours/days or w/e) to flower shop = iron plate.

[trollson]

I think this could work, and there is a rational explaination as to what is happening:

 

This augmented armour is regular leather armour with additional protective pieces attached; thick cuir bouilli plates, bone or horn reenforcement, metal bars (brigandine) etc.

 

These pieces are attached over the regular hauberk, and so are more vunerable to damage and being dislodged. Hence the higher breakage rate.

 

The ingredients for the augmented armour would therefore include a suit of regular leather armour, as well as the parts for the additional protective pieces. It would of course be more encumbering that the basic suit.

 

Having the augmented armour deteriorate back to basic leather armour then makes perfect sense. Although there should be a chance of deteriorating two steps and losing the leather as well (since it may have been irreparably damaged during the alterations).

 

As for the nexus (this after carone's post below); it doesn't make sense to have high requirements here, in what could be considered a makeshift addition to a piece of armour (think: Joxer from "Xena"). Its essentially a low tech makeshift improvement, not a piece of high art.

 

Since manufacturing level is a task difficulty and not a requirement, there is scope to have a non-trivial level here; the amateur hack can keep trying to give himself better armour, wasting materials along the way. Of course, if the manufacturing difficulty was too high, then you may expect the armour to be more resilient, but what experienced blacksmith would waste their time and effort cludging up such armour?

Edited June 26, 2006 by trollson

[carone]

Exactly what artificial nexus are we talking about here for these new items?

Because the biggest problem I see is, if the manu requirements are very low, let's say artificial nexus 2, I'm pretty sure what will happen is that every fighter will get those nexii and simply make the stuff themselves, at the same time raising their manu level and maybe later on when they have a few pickpoints to spend and are already at a high manu level, to invest some more into artificial nexii and you can forget the market for manu'able items forever.

In my opinion one of the biggest problems is still that the fighters don't make enough money and can't afford any of this new stuff. That's why EVERYONE has high harv, alch and pot levels. They can't afford to buy the things they need for fighting so they make them themselves.

Yes (for the last time ), things like these are very, very hard to balance, but imho the thing that has to be dealt with first.

 

So what could maybe work is make as requirement for these new cheap items at least artificial 4, the higher the better, so if people decide they want to be manufacturers, they will need the nexii sooner or later anyway. Having low requirements will simply accomplish the same thing that is going on with alchemy and potions.

 

Although with fighters making their own potions and taking vegetal 4 for them, it should really make you wonder if the same thing could happen to manu with these new low-level items. 4 or 5 PP and you never have to buy armor again because it's good armor, just breaks more often? So what if it's cheap and you can make it yourself?

 

So, what's my conclusion? No idea, too much can go wrong but it sounds like a nice addition.

 

I say let's give it a try, but high manu requirements. This could turn out to be so bad for the market that it's a big waste of time to implement and maybe has to be taken out again completely. Then again, maybe not.

 

But that's what we're there for, we're your beta testers after all.

[Entropy]

trollson, you r0x

So I guess the name will be "Augmented leather vest". And it will not deteriorate to leather armor, it will just dissapear.