Increase the gc Cyclops drop

[korrode]

Cyclops crit a lot.

 

Many pr0 trainers out there suggest to stay on Ogres till mid 80's def and jump straight to Fluffy, skipping Cyclops altogether. Right now if i go fight a Cyclops it's likely to take more health off me than a Fluffy and i'm 110+ def.

Cyclops trainers rip through more HE/SRS and break more armor than Ogre or Fluffy trainers, i think those who do choose to train clops should get a bit more out of it, i also think that u shouldn't have to get to a level where killing Yeti is "easy" before you have a viable monster to go serp for gc.

 

I'd like to think with all the time i've already put into a/d training i could go and do something with my skill that earns me more gc per hour than a player with Harvest 30, Inorg 2 and a bunch of phys can make mining Silver.

 

Cyclops; The new mini Yeti?

Edited March 8, 2008 by Korrode

[Aislinn]

Yes please, I would also like a better drop for cycs.

Even if it's a better variety of more useful items dropped.

[Sayre]

I think they should drop less.

 

Where do they keep the money and tit longs anyway?

 

S.

[Aislinn]

Where do they keep the money and tit longs anyway?

In their pants

Where do fluffies keep theirs?

[Sayre]

Not sure I want to know...

 

Ewww

[korrode]

and yeti, they keep their wolfram bars where exactly?

[ville-v]

Splenfeeder has a valid point. Monsters should not drop anything they don't seem to have. Fluffies would drop only fur, cycs only pants and clubs.

[Sayre]

Splenfeeder has a valid point.

 

I do? >.<

[Aislinn]

*orders more <sarcasm> radars*

[korrode]

Yes i know the hardcore RPG'ers would like to see that be the case... but it just dunna work

 

Well, i guess upping the armed orc gc drop amount would work, but tbh, i think armed orcs are a little easy to be a big gc dropper, clops seem perfect from a "how much a/d training should u have to do before it starts paying off" stand-point.

 

Also the current amount of clops spawns in the game makes them suitable so those training and those serping dont get in each others way too much.

[Ermabwed]

Training a/d pays off from day one, furs, bones and meat sell well, the experience gained at higher levels is easily about 3 times and more than what you can usually get in any other skill.

 

Gold coin and frequent drops should in my opinion cover the usual costs (healing), (other) drops should more or less cover the extra costs (breakages) for a suitable build at "recommended" levels.

[korrode]

Training a/d pays off from day one, furs, bones and meat sell well, the experience gained at higher levels is easily about 3 times and more than what you can usually get in any other skill.

Yeah but the a/d exp doesn't equate to gc until yeti level, thats too higher level imo.

As for the argument of the heap of OA exp = carry capacity = more gc... Firstly, you still use some other skill to actually make that money. Secondly, we have 48 cap now so this argument loses a lot of strength.

 

 

Gold coin and frequent drops should in my opinion cover the usual costs (healing), (other) drops should more or less cover the extra costs (breakages) for a suitable build at "recommended" levels.

Well, atm clops dont even to that, and i generally disagree. I think there should be some profit to be had, as with any other skill.

[conavar]

Personally I would prefer tougher monster to drop more usable items more often rather than more money, Clops are a perfect example of this.There drop rate of anything is pretty crappy compared to say the much weaker Troll.

The items dont have to be overly great or worth a lot of money, but just a little "regular" bonus for training. IE: Gold/Titanium bars, Diss Rings, SRS etc etc

 

 

Edit: atm the best low level monster I know of to serp for gold ( no point training because there xp isnt worth it) are Phantom Warriors (decent gold and drop alot of S2e's plus other items), pain to hit so I just use a cutty, and the damage they inflict back isnt great, so imo a good drop farming monster

Edited March 8, 2008 by conavar

[Aislinn]

Gold coin and frequent drops should in my opinion cover the usual costs (healing), (other) drops should more or less cover the extra costs (breakages) for a suitable build at "recommended" levels.

Well, atm clops dont even to that, and i generally disagree. I think there should be some profit to be had, as with any other skill.

Agreed, clops drops don't come close to covering healing costs, and for the most part the very rare item drops are the same old books over and over with an even more rarel titanium long sword.

[Superman]

I think it should stay as it is. It's much easier to level past Cyclops than it is to bother trying to find a decent attribute set up, which then means you'll need to remove alot of phys, to then go onto fluffy later, and if as you said they become the next yeti, its possible to kill them in 6 hits, with 48/48, and just farm them, same with people and thermal serps on yeti, but this time you wont loose anything, and making to much gc.

[kaGen]

I very much agree with this thread. I spend 200 HEs on a training session, and 50 SRs, and get back 300-400 gold, maybe less.

Thats why I do armed orcs, terrible experince but alot better money. I get like 3kgc and 4-5 drops with 100 HEs used.

But yeah I agree, cyclops are just a stronger version of hobgobs atm, with the occasional drop.

 

~KgN

[Aislinn]

I think it should stay as it is. It's much easier to level past Cyclops than it is to bother trying to find a decent attribute set up, which then means you'll need to remove alot of phys, to then go onto fluffy later, and if as you said they become the next yeti, its possible to kill them in 6 hits, with 48/48, and just farm them, same with people and thermal serps on yeti, but this time you wont loose anything, and making to much gc.

Well why would I want to rush past cycs just to have to wait in line for a fluffy spawn, or have an audience waiting for rme to finish? I like training on cycs for the most part, it is easy to find a spawn unless it is the double experience day.

[masterpiter]

Its known that cyc breaks a lot and drop little, thats why u stay on ogre till 85def, if devs dont wanna change that(coz if they wanted they would change it long time ago) no point in suggesting imho

Let those mixers and harvesters train cyc, they have a lot of money anyways and got decent p/c coz they need emu for mix/harv

Be smart urself and stay on ogre as long as u only can, then do pvp and fluff

[Soul]

I agree with this. The a/d skills should bring you some gcs aswell, I mean if you got 70's manu you can get a lot of enchanted stuff, but if you got 70's a/d it wont give you any gcs.

Cycs use a lot of hes/srs, and give small amounts of gcs, they're drops should be bigger, something like 80~ gcs/per. Even a troll drops more than what a cyc drops now...

Edited March 8, 2008 by Soul

[kibora]

Dunno now but when i trained on them they used to drop a lot of tit longs. If they still do it at that rate they should be ok

[sadarar]

Training a/d pays off from day one, furs, bones and meat sell well, the experience gained at higher levels is easily about 3 times and more than what you can usually get in any other skill.

 

Gold coin and frequent drops should in my opinion cover the usual costs (healing), (other) drops should more or less cover the extra costs (breakages) for a suitable build at "recommended" levels.

 

Show me a level of a/d that a person can earn more by fighting than by harvesting for flower shop. No doubt there are points where this is the case, but I am very confident it is not "from day one". Why do you see so many pure fighters harvesting to raise gc if this is true?

[Rehdon]

I agree with Korrode (and Aislinn, and others ...): the clops' drops are pretty disappointing when compared to the amount of resources (hes, srs, armors) you have to invest to train on them. And don't forget that to really train comfortably on clops you'd better buy an NMT cape. So, yes, it was painful to discover that, after investing a lot of time and energies to get to clop level, the reward is so small.

 

I get your point about ogres mp, but consider that A) there's just so many ogres one can kill and preserve his sanity B ) ogre spots are quite crowded already, if everyone were supposed to skip armed orcs and clops to get directly to fluffy you'd just get even longer queues at ogre spawns. The progression from monster to monster should not have "black holes", or player distribution would be unequal, with people clogging the most profitable ones only.

 

Note that I recently moved to fluffies, so I say this with little self-interest on my part

 

Rehdon

[asgnny]

I agree with this. The a/d skills should bring you some gcs aswell, I mean if you got 70's manu you can get a lot of enchanted stuff, but if you got 70's a/d it wont give you any gcs.

Cycs use a lot of hes/srs, and give small amounts of gcs, they're drops should be bigger, something like 80~ gcs/per. Even a troll drops more than what a cyc drops now...

Someone training manufacturing to 70's must get lots of enchanted leather helms, I'm sure. Market & NPC prices on ingredients do not make up enough of the base cost of ingredients for high level manufacturers to mass produce high-level gear. I doubt any high level manufacturer would admit recently getting "a lot" of enchanted anything, unless having paid for their own wing in Radu's castle.

 

As previously mentioned, cyclops drop poorly, however it is easy to get a spawn. Some players resort to armed orcs to get better gc, others train on ogres until fluffy levels. These all seem like valid options to me. If there is a desire to minimize this problem, just remove the -10 a/d effect of true sight potions, or force the a/d levels back towards normal even with negative food. Perhaps increasing the maximum cyclops drop 10gc wouldn't hurt much (especially if they do in fact break more gear than ogres and armed orcs), however if you're using 80gc worth of supplies per cyclops to heal, maybe you need to rethink your training strategy.

 

There are, and should be tradeoffs for monsters and their experience given. Players earning 400+k exp per hour on feros aren't happy with the drops, but don't dare to complain. Some small adjustments may be in order, but I see no overall benefit to a major overhaul in this area.

[ville-v]

Dunno now but when i trained on them they used to drop a lot of tit longs. If they still do it at that rate they should be ok

This update was in the May 2006: http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24889

[korrode]

As previously mentioned, cyclops drop poorly, however it is easy to get a spawn.

Well, just my opinion but, it's easy to get a cyclops spawn cause they generally suck. I dont really think this is a good thing.

 

Some players resort to armed orcs to get better gc

Armed Orcs dont give good gc (i've tried it), go spend an hour in one of the 2 really good armed orc spawns and see how much gc u get.

 

others train on ogres until fluffy levels. These all seem like valid options to me.

I strongly disagree here.

Staying on a monster with 105 health and 70/50 a/d for ages and then jumping to a 250 health, 95/95 a/d monster tbh sounds ridiculous when there is a 200 health 80/80 a/d monster in the game.

But, I'm not really here to debate the trainability of monsters. Many who used to train Yeti cannot do so since that attribute cap, but, people who used to train them and even some who couldn't train them prior to the cap still now serp them for gc.

 

My point is i really dont agree with this "Once you can serp yeti np gc is easy, but until then your a/d skill aint worth shit in regard to getting gc from drops".

I recently watched someone with a little under 120 attack, 48 coord and 40 reas serping yeti, this person to at least get in 50% of their hits had to use cutty, even with a JS they were missing "too much".

How long does it take the average char to get to 120 attack? I know there's those few hardcore peoples out there, but i'd expect for "the average" person it's over a year, for all-rounder types much longer.

 

 

If there is a desire to minimize this problem, just remove the -10 a/d effect of true sight potions, or force the a/d levels back towards normal even with negative food.

Well i certainly agree there, i've lobbied to have the failing TS effect changed/removed numerous times, but again i'm not looking to debate about training, the point of my thread is that once a person gets to 70's+ a/d they should be able to go use their skill and make decent gc.

 

There are, and should be tradeoffs for monsters and their experience given. Players earning 400+k exp per hour on feros aren't happy with the drops, but don't dare to complain. Some small adjustments may be in order, but I see no overall benefit to a major overhaul in this area.

Yes, Feros give big exp, don't use "too much" resources and dont break much gear... they are a perfect example of a creature that shouldn't drop much gc (and lets not forget they do drop NMT/Arti).

 

 

Perhaps increasing the maximum cyclops drop 10gc wouldn't hurt much (especially if they do in fact break more gear than ogres and armed orcs), however if you're using 80gc worth of supplies per cyclops to heal, maybe you need to rethink your training strategy.

Firstly; you're suggesting people should be pretty much forced to #reset (or buy a bunch of removal stones) if they want to use clops prior to fluffy?

Take 44/32/20+ p/c/v for clops then have to reset so they can take 24/48 p/c for fluffy?

Or your saying they should use Full Steel? I assure you clops break heaps...

 

I did a test today... I -19 TS'd to 86/92 a/d. With my attributes, on -19 TS i can very happily train Fluffy, and i have a bit higher p/c and toughness than the average clops trainer, so clops should be very "easy" for me in this setup. So remember before i state these results that my levels are WELL over whats required and my fights are shorter than the average clops trainer:

 

Cyclops killed: 30.

Max GC dropped: 34gc

Time taken: ~30 mins (As i said i kill them quicker than the average clops trainer, they wouldn't be doing 1 per min)

Armor used: Crown of Life, Full Iron Plate, Moon Medallion, Steel Shield, NMT Cloak.

Resources Used: 13 SRS, 44 HE.

Total GC dropped from 30 clops: 497gc.

Cost of resources: 481gc (based on the price SR (15gc ea) and HE (6.5gc ea) is sold for on my bot, and she sells lots).

GC Profit: 16gc.

Armor Broken: Iron Cuisses degraded.

 

Profit if Tankel were to fix Cuisses: -1284gc

Profit if Tankel were to break Cuisses: -6984gc

 

Even if we forget the fact the cuisses degraded, me with Fluffy levels and attribs only makes 16gc? Come on.

 

Now lets say i'd been out there with an Orc Slayer serping the clops, for 30 clops i'd get 497gc (and i'd still need to restore at least a couple of times doing that).

What kind of gc can be expected from 30 Yeti? i'm thinking not just twice or 3 times the clops amount, but A LOT more... correct me if i'm wrong.

 

 

EDIT: Tankel repaired my Cuisses First item of mine he hasn't borked in ages!

Edited March 9, 2008 by Korrode