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PvE/PvP weapons and armors multiplier

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@Books idea

I don't like it, there's no point.

It'll be something every single PK'er has to do, it'd just be another tedious task.

That's the whole point. it shouldn't be easy and the books should be only drops. It will create many variations. PK performance shouldn't be armor+weapons vs armor+weapons otherwise people with equal attributes and armor/weapons can continue fighting forever or till they run out of SRs/HE. The more variables get into the picture, the more exciting things get. I don't really get excited about possible game changes but this idea is one of the best I've seen in a long time.

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That's the whole point. it shouldn't be easy and the books should be only drops. It will create many variations. PK performance shouldn't be armor+weapons vs armor+weapons otherwise people with equal attributes and armor/weapons can continue fighting forever or till they run out of SRs/HE. The more variables get into the picture, the more exciting things get. I don't really get excited about possible game changes but this idea is one of the best I've seen in a long time.

While I like that idea, unfortunately I don't believe it wouldn't end up working that way. If I understand correctly, your idea is that some PKers will read some books, and others will read different ones, meaning more variables in PK. However because you can read all the books, the better PKers will read all the books, putting yet more distance between these top PKers and those who would like to PK but can't due to armor/weapons/expensive/etc... and making the playing field yet more uneven.

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That's the whole point. it shouldn't be easy and the books should be only drops. It will create many variations. PK performance shouldn't be armor+weapons vs armor+weapons otherwise people with equal attributes and armor/weapons can continue fighting forever or till they run out of SRs/HE. The more variables get into the picture, the more exciting things get. I don't really get excited about possible game changes but this idea is one of the best I've seen in a long time.

While I like that idea, unfortunately I don't believe it wouldn't end up working that way. If I understand correctly, your idea is that some PKers will read some books, and others will read different ones, meaning more variables in PK. However because you can read all the books, the better PKers will read all the books, putting yet more distance between these top PKers and those who would like to PK but can't due to armor/weapons/expensive/etc... and making the playing field yet more uneven.

Won't making armor/weapons less effective in PK also insrease the gap between top PKers and lower skilled ones?

Also that's why I said make it drops because not everyone will be able to get all books.

Edited by hussam

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Won't making armor/weapons less effective in PK also insrease the gap between top PKers and lower skilled ones?

I think this would depend purely on how -%buff scales with the 'level' of the armor/weapon. I'm not entirely sure that making armor/weapons less effective is the right way to go either.

 

Also that's why I said make it drops because not everyone will be able to get all books.

True, but is seems certain that those who would be getting the books (and using them) would all be top PKers. They would be the ones farming it, and they would be the ones with the assets to buy it off anyone else.

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Also that's why I said make it drops because not everyone will be able to get all books.

True, but is seems certain that those who would be getting the books (and using them) would all be top PKers. They would be the ones farming it, and they would be the ones with the assets to buy it off anyone else.

 

Right, that's a good point because the more you kill, the more likely it is that you'll get the rare book drop.

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While I like that idea, unfortunately I don't believe it wouldn't end up working that way. If I understand correctly, your idea is that some PKers will read some books, and others will read different ones, meaning more variables in PK. However because you can read all the books, the better PKers will read all the books, .

 

Easy................ just cap how many books can be read.

 

If thats is joined to Radu's modifier idea you could have the following (at a very basic level)

 

Combat Mastery:

 

Each player can only read one of the following and Reading the book would half the negative modifier for PvP and maybe give a plus modifier of say 5% for PvE

 

 

Book of Great swords (would not include bronze swords,this will always recieve the full negative modifier for PvP)

Book of Armour mastery

Book of Elemental Sword mastery ( therm/ice/fire serp/s2e etc )

Book of Magic Swords ( Jsoc/Osmn etc)

Book of Specials ( Som, Bod, Dragonblade etc ).

 

 

Now if the system wanted to be Deeper, reading the book could open up other books to read along the chosen path

 

ie:

 

Armour Mastery Path

 

Pre-Req : Reading Book of Armour mastery

 

Book of Red Dragon Armour

Book of Ice Dragon Armour

Book of Steel Plate

Book of Shields (non magical types)

Book of life drain shield

Book of Tit plate of Freezing

Book of Uber def greaves

 

etc etc etc

 

Players would also be capped on how many books within a certain path they could read (eg can only read 2 books)

 

 

 

Imo Mastery Paths + Radu's proposed idea + maybe new Mastery path perks would help do away with the standard cookie cutter PK builds and items and make each players set up more varied

Edited by conavar

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While I like that idea, unfortunately I don't believe it wouldn't end up working that way. If I understand correctly, your idea is that some PKers will read some books, and others will read different ones, meaning more variables in PK. However because you can read all the books, the better PKers will read all the books, .

 

Easy................ just cap how many books can be read.

 

If thats is joined to Radu's modifier idea you could have the following (at a very basic level)

 

Combat Mastery:

 

Each player can only read one of the following and Reading the book would half the negative modifier for PvP and maybe give a plus modifier of say 5% for PvE

 

 

Book of Great swords (would not include bronze swords,this will always recieve the full negative modifier for PvP)

Book of Armour mastery

Book of Elemental Sword mastery ( therm/ice/fire serp/s2e etc )

Book of Magic Swords ( Jsoc/Osmn etc)

Book of Specials ( Som, Bod, Dragonblade etc ).

 

 

Now if the system wanted to be Deeper, reading the book could open up other books to read along the chosen path

 

ie:

 

Armour Mastery Path

 

Pre-Req : Reading Book of Armour mastery

 

Book of Red Dragon Armour

Book of Ice Dragon Armour

Book of Steel Plate

Book of Shields (non magical types)

Book of life drain shield

Book of Tit plate of Freezing

Book of Uber def greaves

 

etc etc etc

 

Players would also be capped on how many books within a certain path they could read (eg can only read 2 books)

 

 

 

Imo Mastery Paths + Radu's proposed idea + maybe new Mastery path perks would help do away with the standard cookie cutter PK builds and items and make each players set up more varied

actually, I really like this idea!

 

EDIT: additional paths to give utility to less-used weapons would be really nice.

 

EDIT2: The 'Paths' also have the potential to be used for more skills than just combat.

Edited by Requiem

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You could change the damage dealt and the ability to dodge on your current health status.

 

Something like:

 

damage_dealt = damage_dealt * MIN ( 1, ( current_health / (max_health * 2 / 3)) )

(so if your health drops below 2/3 of your total health you'll start dealing lower damage)

 

Same formula for the chance to dodge.

 

Edit: fixed the formula and some typos :)

If you go along that route, you should consider a person's will and toughness. The funny thing is, if you remove the MIN piece, it would mean that there would be a benefit of drinking BR and minor healing potions to get more than your full health and that you would do more damage if you have more than 2/3 health. Of course, I am not sure that is not desirable, so that is probably why you put in the MIN.

 

@Radu: While Korrode's method on the items is more flexible due to it being per item, the true question is probably how much work you wish to do to make thing work vs how much control you want over it. I wish you luck in deciding on the method.

 

The idea of using a book to say how well you can use a sword (on players/on anything) goes along with Korrode's idea because it is dependent on that sword being used. It would actually be a step past Korrode's idea, logic wise, since it would require testing knowledge when that sword is used.

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While I like that idea, unfortunately I don't believe it wouldn't end up working that way. If I understand correctly, your idea is that some PKers will read some books, and others will read different ones, meaning more variables in PK. However because you can read all the books, the better PKers will read all the books, .

 

Easy................ just cap how many books can be read.

 

If thats is joined to Radu's modifier idea you could have the following (at a very basic level)

 

Combat Mastery:

 

Each player can only read one of the following and Reading the book would half the negative modifier for PvP and maybe give a plus modifier of say 5% for PvE

 

 

Book of Great swords (would not include bronze swords,this will always recieve the full negative modifier for PvP)

Book of Armour mastery

Book of Elemental Sword mastery ( therm/ice/fire serp/s2e etc )

Book of Magic Swords ( Jsoc/Osmn etc)

Book of Specials ( Som, Bod, Dragonblade etc ).

 

 

Now if the system wanted to be Deeper, reading the book could open up other books to read along the chosen path

 

ie:

 

Armour Mastery Path

 

Pre-Req : Reading Book of Armour mastery

 

Book of Red Dragon Armour

Book of Ice Dragon Armour

Book of Steel Plate

Book of Shields (non magical types)

Book of life drain shield

Book of Tit plate of Freezing

Book of Uber def greaves

 

etc etc etc

 

Players would also be capped on how many books within a certain path they could read (eg can only read 2 books)

 

 

 

Imo Mastery Paths + Radu's proposed idea + maybe new Mastery path perks would help do away with the standard cookie cutter PK builds and items and make each players set up more varied

 

@Knowledge Class Book Idea:

 

Yeah classes :) see players do really want character directions :)

You can still call it class-less, if perks and books have removal options, but not having set classes

still does not make a game "class-less". (Mixer\Fighter\Mage\Ranger\Summoner\healer\IP AFK PRO)

 

This system should include Ranger Mage and Summoner (engineer?) or another combat problem is created.

 

(Combat disciplines, from warrior to barbarian to knight, so on)

 

This system is almost straight out of d&d ish things, like the game Shadowbane.

Its in the grand daddy of RPGs because it works, people like to play it, and many games take from it.

It has a proven track record, it exists in many paper based RPGs for a very good reason.

 

However since in EL you cannot make a new 'toon' and level it to R75 in 2 weeks or spend

1k per point to remove mastery points at a 'refiner'. The books should clear on a reset (imho resets

shouldn't be destructive anyway, but another thread, one of el's flaws imho, you can't change your mind

without a year of recovery. A very terrible plan for a game, another thread again :P)

 

 

@groomsh

Only issue I see is, pkers will just restore far more often and when the damage drops too low, it will be

totally negated by toughness.

 

I personally still like the idea of variable weapon speeds, it to me solves Bronze sword issues, by making it 2-3 turns per swing, with

the same damage. OS would be slower than Rapier and so on, but the PvE/PvP weapons and armors multiplier, reaches the same

result with a different method.

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@Books idea

I don't like it, there's no point.

It'll be something every single PK'er has to do, it'd just be another tedious task.

 

Lets just put in Ent's or my idea so we can get on with the more fun PK :)

Absolutely right.

 

EDIT: We need less requirements for PvP, NOT MORE. The books would be probably expensive, and people who think "OMFG gc buyers are ruining the game BBQ" would cry out load saying they got yet another advantage. No point AT ALL for the book stuff.

Edited by Lorck

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Adding a modifier or penalty on weapons/armor in PK will only serve to help top PKers get faster kills which I'm assuming is the whole point behind this thread.

It doesn't give less requirements for PK. On the contrary, it increases the requirements because it means a weaker PKer will need better weapons/armor than he/she otherwise would think he/she needs.

Edited by hussam

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Adding a modifier or penalty on weapons/armor in PK will only serve to help top PKers get faster kills which I'm assuming is the whole point behind this thread.
The whole point behind this thread is that there are a weapon which TONS of damage, its expensive and break fast, making only people who can buy gc or can spend many hours miliking high level monsters for gc can get competitive in pk. Also there are a kind of armor that absorb all damage from ice and fire, making thermal weapons behave like normal weapons in PvP, therefore rendering them useless in this environment.
It doesn't give less requirements for PK. On the contrary, it increases the requirements because it means a weaker PKer will need better weapons/armor than he/she otherwise would think he/she needs.
As far as i can understand, today either you wear the very top gear or you get pked fast, so i don't really see your point.

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The whole point behind this thread is that there are a weapon which TONS of damage, its expensive and break fast, making only people who can buy gc or can spend many hours miliking high level monsters for gc can get competitive in pk. Also there are a kind of armor that absorb all damage from ice and fire, making thermal weapons behave like normal weapons in PvP, therefore rendering them useless in this environment.

It seems in the end most imbalance issues come back to GC buying/selling.

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I should note something to you guys as a programmer. The more details you add for fighting, the harder it will be to maintain the code and the harder it will be for a person to figure out how to fight. "Oooh! This feature would be cool!" may lead to "How the hell do I do this crap!". It is the typical feature vs use struggle. It would be wise to come up with a solution that is simple to implement and easy to understand for everyone. Additional details may lead to more game bugs and more confused fighters.

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Adding a modifier or penalty on weapons/armor in PK will only serve to help top PKers get faster kills which I'm assuming is the whole point behind this thread.

It doesn't give less requirements for PK. On the contrary, it increases the requirements because it means a weaker PKer will need better weapons/armor than he/she otherwise would think he/she needs.

 

Did you fucking read this thread?

 

About the books idea, but combined with a limit (as in, you can only read this many) is a good idea.

I was thinking about something similar to the god quests, where you can do some quests and master a certain weapon and armor, which would give you a bonus when you use it, and a penalty when you use something different.

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Did you fucking read this thread?

I did, and it does seem to be the general trend of thought (not just here, it was also implied in evanescence perk thread that certain fights are taking too long). Obviously you know better, but that's the result I see out of a penalty system in PK.

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I like the multiplyer idea and adding the book idea to it sounds great, making it a quest is something i think would work well, it could be like with the gods you have to chose wich quests you want to take carefully because if you take quest "weapons quest A" you wont be able to take "armor quest C" and there for you have to think thru how and what to do before you do it, not sure if you can reset a quest tho but it would be a nice add incase you want to try something new, another removal maby?

Edited by Entris

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This sounds sort of like the antisocial perk where you can't use the npcs. I don't like having the options of certain armors barred to me. :/

 

edit: However, if all it does is increases the effect, is it permanent -- is there a way to remove/switch? Perhaps more removal stones? (though we do have a lot already heh)

Edited by Raytray

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Did you fucking read this thread?

I did, and it does seem to be the general trend of thought (not just here, it was also implied in evanescence perk thread that certain fights are taking too long). Obviously you know better, but that's the result I see out of a penalty system in PK.

 

The whole idea of this thread is to prevent faster killing and overpowered items.

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I should note something to you guys as a programmer. The more details you add for fighting, the harder it will be to maintain the code and the harder it will be for a person to figure out how to fight. "Oooh! This feature would be cool!" may lead to "How the hell do I do this crap!". It is the typical feature vs use struggle. It would be wise to come up with a solution that is simple to implement and easy to understand for everyone. Additional details may lead to more game bugs and more confused fighters.

Fighting is fairly easy to understand, and still would be with this implemented. you still point-click-kick. It would make it more complex to 'master' though, which I don't think is necessarily bad.

 

Whether or not the books idea is really pertinent to the topic and would actually serve to even the playing field, I'm not sure, but I still like it.

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The whole idea of this thread is to prevent faster killing and overpowered items.

 

An idea might be to instead of reducting the armour or wep is to maybe reduce the wep them self on a hit per hit basis.

IE the more you use the wep the less damge it might do....

 

Example... yr great sword has had 10 hits (this is an example) on ti armour will reduce the damage done because of damage the sword has taken in hitting the armour it could reduse the damage the sword does buy -1% if it was dragon armour maybe the damage will reduce by -3%.

You could also make the damage done to the wep on a % basis ie 10% change yr wep was damaged. (You could put this on armour too but not sure how welcome that would be)

 

You could also implement a restore system where as u have to make a new alc ess to repair the damage wep (IE maybe fire ess and and new type of ess ) to fix it.

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The whole idea of this thread is to prevent faster killing and overpowered items.

 

An idea might be to instead of reducting the armour or wep is to maybe reduce the wep them self on a hit per hit basis.

IE the more you use the wep the less damge it might do....

 

Example... yr great sword has had 10 hits (this is an example) on ti armour will reduce the damage done because of damage the sword has taken in hitting the armour it could reduse the damage the sword does buy -1% if it was dragon armour maybe the damage will reduce by -3%.

You could also make the damage done to the wep on a % basis ie 10% change yr wep was damaged. (You could put this on armour too but not sure how welcome that would be)

 

You could also implement a restore system where as u have to make a new alc ess to repair the damage wep (IE maybe fire ess and and new type of ess ) to fix it.

Well...

 

A. i dont think individual item stats tracking is on the cards, or at least, not soon

B. the great swords have well balanced different stats, so you make a strategic choice of which one you use in what situation. Making it so a weapon is less effective because you've used it more would just be annoying.

 

Also your comment here

(You could put this on armour too but not sure how welcome that would be)

Shows that you haven't read/understood the thread and what's trying to be achieved.

Edited by Korrode

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the book/quest skills to gain more knowledge in a particular type of weaponry sound excellent.

 

it makes a lot of sense that somebody who has trained and gained knowledge in a particular weapon would ''become'' that particular weapon

 

theres a good chance it would diversify the range of weaponry used in EL , as long as there were not one or two insane weapon bonus' that would create a bottleneck again

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The whole idea of this thread is to prevent faster killing and overpowered items.

 

Wait wait i m lost :rolleyes:

 

Arent the fights taking really LONG already and we are trying to make it longer or i got it wrong? :w00t:

 

Only thing that makes a PK fight shorter is Bronze Sword right now...

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Bronze Sword = No strategy melee PK (because b.sword always the best strategy). Too expensive PK. Fights way too short because b.sword generally OP.

 

Dragon Armors in use when bronze sword not in use = No strategy melee PK (because nothing melee works) Fights way too long because drag armor OP vs great swords.

 

What we're hoping for is that between the changes suggested here in this thread, and here also:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50980

...we can get the balance between the two.

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