getting rid of perks

[Jezebelle]

I was thinking, to get rid of perks you bought for pickpoints and/or gc, you have to totaly reset.

Now, what if we could reverse the perks for pickpoints and/or gc as well?

 

Suppose you have gotten the Scotty perk, but decided after a while, yuo dont like it.Wouldnt it be great to get rid of ti without a reset?

For example, you have to hand in 5 pickpoints and 5k gc to get rid of that one perk.

That way you can play around a bit with perks more then now, coz a reset is..quit drastic

 

Seems fair..what do you think?

 

JezeBelle

[Shiva]

To be able to reverse a perk without reset would be great, but wouldn't that mean you spend the pick points to get it, then you spend more to get rid of it?

Like I get one perk for 3 picks and some gc, then decide I don't like it, then spend so many more to get rid of it... that would be wasting quite a lot of precious pick points. In that case reset would be a better idea than say wasting 10 pick points acquiring and discarding a perk.

I like the idea, but I know that myself and many others wouldn't necessarily have so many free pick points to throw around, making reset necessary even with this idea in place.

[Jezebelle]

To be able to reverse a perk without reset would be great, but wouldn't that mean you spend the pick points to get it, then you spend more to get rid of it?

Like I get one perk for 3 picks and some gc, then decide I don't like it, then spend so many more to get rid of it... that would be wasting quite a lot of precious pick points. In that case reset would be a better idea than say wasting 10 pick points acquiring and discarding a perk.

I like the idea, but I know that myself and many others wouldn't necessarily have so many free pick points to throw around, making reset necessary even with this idea in place.

 

 

Well, yes, you can considder it a waste of the first pp/gc, but when you realy wanna get rid of just one perk, this IS a way.

And sure, it shouldnt be made too easy, you have to DO something for it..after all, the perks werent invented for nothing

 

Jez

[maximos]

i dont this will work out, some people might just get all negative perks for 1 evening of Pk, and lose them for training. even if this isn't the case, perks should imo stay as a difficult descision

 

ps: i think scotty died = 3 pp

Edited January 30, 2007 by maximos

[Chosen]

I agree with Sin and max, I don't think it would really work.

[Tanyia]

It's a nice idea, but I'd say no. It seems like this would allow rich people to tweak their chars for a special purpose, then undo it all. I think perks should be a tough, careful decision. Then again, if the cost were very very high...maybe.

 

I would vote for something like this for newbies (OA under 15 or so), since a lot of poor people take like 10 nexus points, not understanding that you have to eat to charge them, or they load up on perks without realizing the consequences. Then again, reset isn't too detrimental to them anyway.

[Jezebelle]

It's a nice idea, but I'd say no. It seems like this would allow rich people to tweak their chars for a special purpose, then undo it all.

 

 

Even rich ppl have to level to get pickpoint..I wasn saying the prks can be undone by paying them off, you would need to hand in pickpoints.

 

As for my example for Scottie: i am aware of how many pp that perk takes.Hence my remark that it should be harder to get rid of the perk, then getting it

 

Jez

[Vanyel]

I would vote for something like this for newbies (OA under 15 or so), since a lot of poor people take like 10 nexus points, not understanding that you have to eat to charge them, or they load up on perks without realizing the consequences. Then again, reset isn't too detrimental to them anyway.

 

OA means nothing. I would rather say that people with any skill below 15 should not be able to take ANY perks.

 

I don't like above ideas at all. You decide on perk you have to live with it or start from scratch. Buying perks for pickpoints, getting rid of them for pickpoints... who would go for such thing? Reset is not that pain in ass at high skill levels. If you know what to do you can recover 80-100 oa levels in really short time. I voute for leaving it as it is.

[LadyReni]

I say NO, and agree with Anshar, you take responsibility for your choices, think twice before you spend a PP.

[Mar(c)]

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17242

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16236

 

(And I'm pretty sure the suggestion has popped up as a side-suggestion or a random thought in some other suggestion/chat a couple of times as well..)

 

 

My opinion about it:

 • Attributes, nexuses and perks are things you build up your character with, not just some marbles you collect in a little bag and throw the ones out that you don't like anymore.

 • #reset has been implemented to be able to correct mistakes -- and this gets heavily "abused" already because it doesn't have any negative side effect (apart from the starting over itself).

 

_____

 

 

Imho, this is the only sensable suggestion in this thread:

I would rather say that people with any skill below 15 should not be able to take ANY perks.

I agree with Anshar, perks shouldn't be able to be taken as easy as it is now.

In fact, I think every perk should have its own requirements of OA level + some skill level:

 

perk				  costs			 requirements
___________________   _______________   _________________________

Powersaving			 3 pp,  100 gc   OA  6
Fast Regeneration	   3 pp,  100 gc   OA  6
Self Destruction		5 pp,  130 gc   OA 10 + Att 10
Excavator			   5 pp,  150 gc   OA  6 + Har  6
Monster Magnetism	   5 pp,  150 gc   OA  6
Evanescence			 5 pp,  200 gc   OA 10 + Def 10
Careful Guy			 5 pp,  250 gc   OA 12
Body Piercing		   7 pp,  150 gc   OA 12 + Att 12
Fatal Man			   7 pp,  150 gc   OA 12 + Att 12
Conjurer				7 pp,  250 gc   OA  6 + Sum  6
I Glow in the Dark	  7 pp,  250 gc   OA 15 + Att 15
There Is No Fork		7 pp,  250 gc   OA 18 + Att 18
Mirror Skin			 7 pp,  300 gc   OA 20 + Att 20
No More Tears		   7 pp,   1k gc   OA 15 + Def 15
Artificer			   7 pp,   2k gc   OA  6 + Alc/Pot/Man/Cra 6
I Eat Dead People	   3 pp,  10k gc   OA 20

Power Hungry		   -3 pp			OA 15
I Can't Dance		  -5 pp			OA 20 + Def 10
Gelatine Bones		 -6 pp			OA 25 + Def 15
Godless				-8 pp			OA 30
Antisocial			-10 pp			OA 35
Hellspawn			 -10 pp			OA 40
Scotty Died			-3 pp,  10k gc   OA 30
Harvester of Sorrow	-5 pp, 100k gc   OA 40 + Har 25

Something like that, I didn't spend too much time on the exact numbers.

The required OA for negative perks should be high anyway.

 

Advantages:

 • newbies won't be able to rush themselves into getting perks

 • it will be less easy to make a mule character

 • it reduces the "abuse" of #reset a bit

Edited January 30, 2007 by Mar(c)

[Ambrosius]

This prolly has been mentioned before:

 

but it would be really nice if one could get a pickpoint reset at say: lvl 120 or lvl 130 oa + an ammount of gc.

 

This would prevent having to reset at such high oa lvls and still be able to concentrate on other aspects of the game or correct mistakes or get nex pp back from certain skills:

 

The game has changed a lot (potioning/summoning/craft, etc) would be nice if ppl at high lvls get the chance to do them.....or.....dont do them and get nex pp back if they decide it has changed too much and isnt an interesting skill anymore (in their opinion).

[Torr]

The game has changed a lot (potioning/summoning/craft, etc) would be nice if ppl at high lvls get the chance to do them.....or.....dont do them and get nex pp back if they decide it has changed too much and isnt an interesting skill anymore (in their opinion).

Well you can get nexuses at high oa without reset, just get hydro bars, and why would high lvl players have benefit not to reset, if you want to do something else, waste pp\'s like other players.

 

Cheers!

[Tanyia]

OA means nothing. I would rather say that people with any skill below 15 should not be able to take ANY perks.

 

I wouldn't say "any skill below 15," as then people who don't care about a particular skill can't get perks. But as Marc suggested, maybe a combo between OA and a skill, or at least one skill at some reasonable level, like 20 (same req. as for guilds).

[ZureKnightofDarkWorld]

If you think about it paying 5 pp to get rid of a perk makes it pointless. It just means you waisted it in the first place. For instance you get something like ANti-Social then u pay the 12 pp to get rid of it? I may be seeing things wrong if so tell me

[Ambrosius]

The game has changed a lot (potioning/summoning/craft, etc) would be nice if ppl at high lvls get the chance to do them.....or.....dont do them and get nex pp back if they decide it has changed too much and isnt an interesting skill anymore (in their opinion).

Well you can get nexuses at high oa without reset, just get hydro bars, and why would high lvl players have benefit not to reset, if you want to do something else, waste pp\'s like other players.

 

Cheers!

 

Well, it might give you smth to work for (get to oa 120/130).

 

And ye you can get nex with hydro bars...but you cant get PP back......and with all the skills that have changed that would be really nice

[Mar(c)]

I was thinking, to get rid of perks you bought for pickpoints and/or gc, you have to totaly reset.

Now, what if we could reverse the perks for pickpoints and/or gc as well?

 

Suppose you have gotten the Scotty perk, but decided after a while, yuo dont like it.Wouldnt it be great to get rid of ti without a reset?

For example, you have to hand in 5 pickpoints and 5k gc to get rid of that one perk.

That way you can play around a bit with perks more then now, coz a reset is..quit drastic

 

Seems fair..what do you think?

 

JezeBelle

To be able to reverse a perk without reset would be great, but wouldn't that mean you spend the pick points to get it, then you spend more to get rid of it?

Like I get one perk for 3 picks and some gc, then decide I don't like it, then spend so many more to get rid of it... that would be wasting quite a lot of precious pick points. In that case reset would be a better idea than say wasting 10 pick points acquiring and discarding a perk.

I like the idea, but I know that myself and many others wouldn't necessarily have so many free pick points to throw around, making reset necessary even with this idea in place.

As for my example for Scottie: i am aware of how many pp that perk takes.Hence my remark that it should be harder to get rid of the perk, then getting it

I read the thread yesterday.. but couldn't really put my finger on it.

Now I see what's wrong; you're talking about getting rid of negative perks as if it were positive perks -- Scotty perk doesn't take pickpoints, it gives pickpoints...

 

 

Well, getting rid of positive perks* by spending more pickpoints than you it costed you the first time is way more drastic than a reset... or at least makes a reset inevitable (since it means you lose more than the double amount of pickpoints in total) -- too much hassle to program a feature that shouldn't be used (it makes your character even worse built than by keeping the positive perk).

 

* Which is, in itself, not as strange as it sounds -- some positive perks have negative side-effects: MM can be considered negative for training on monsters, a couple of positive perks have a negative effect on (friendly) pvp training.

 

Anyway, getting rid of perks has been suggested before, also with a net penalty of 1 or 2 pickpoints (getting 1 or 2 pp's less back for a turned in positive perk, and paying 1 or 2 pp's more for a turned in negative perk) -- which is what this thread is about, no?

What I meant with the marbles thing in my previous post is: imo perks (and attributes/nexuses) are not for toying around with, it just gets too easy taking a perk for a purpose, and removing it when it's served that purpose.

And then, it's a way to really lose pp's, which only increases the need of a #reset.

[Rei]

Perhaps we could just pay real money to get rid of unwanted perks? This would have a double benefit. EL would benefit from the money, and players from not having to reset. I and I am sure others would happily do this. Just a suggestion though.

[masterpiter]

Perhaps we could just pay real money to get rid of unwanted perks? This would have a double benefit. EL would benefit from the money, and players from not having to reset. I and I am sure others would happily do this. Just a suggestion though.

Or we could just reset, no matter how high oa it is, #reset is fair for all, if u can/wanna pay real money for EL or if u dont.

 

So for example if i didnt liked some perks or wanted redistirbute my pickpoints and had 148oa lvl, than i had to reset( and maybe after 1 year of playing 10h/day i can get back to my previous oa), but some1 who is willing to pay 100(1000?)usd dont have to do that?

Well, i think in this case only game owners can decide what is better for the game

 

eMPi

[Ateh]

I may be seeing things wrong if so tell me

 

 

 

your seeing things wrong, turn yourself upside down and face a wall

 

 

#edit : couldnt resist

Edited February 2, 2007 by Ateh

[scandium]

[...]

but it would be really nice if one could get a pickpoint reset at say: lvl 120 or lvl 130 oa + an ammount of gc.

[...]

 

I totally agree, so many people are busy with "recovering from reset" which spoils a lot of action. It's just not "practical" to reset at oa120+ for ~8 wrong spent (nexus) PP on the other hand your advantage of a very high OA is gone if you have wrong spent PPs.

It should be expensive enough so that you cant do it on a regular basis or "just for fun" and there is a technical problem: you need to avoid that people can buy nexuses with hydro bars and then shift to p/c (dont get me wrong, I am totally for nexus<->attribute exchangable PPs in that case, but with buyable nexus you basically can get unlimited p/c etc. - I dont know if the server logs what nexus' are bought so you have to stay with that amount of nexus PP or whatever)

I mean so many people have half-done animal nexus etc. etc. because of PP they spent in the first week they played this game and as long as it's still in heavy development PPs should be shiftable some way.

I'd pay 150kgc (or perhaps even more) if I could re-spend my PP (note: I am not talking about getting rid of perks etc. just re-spend PP)

 

Another reason why this should be possible is with the recent blog entries from radu about implementing dynamic light and making perception useful etc.: No (and I really mean *no*) player is going to reset at oa130 just to get 8 PP into a perception based skill but many would probably shift a few PPs into it. (i.e. there's a big chance new features just "flop").

Those people will either sell char and stop playing or only use areas where the skill doesnt matter (indoor arenas etc.) or not care about it at all (because if everyone ignores it everyone has the same sight again

Edited February 3, 2007 by scandium