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ph3r3

End the harvest

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This suggestion really comes from just playing the game. I noticed right away you have a harvest xp cap per hour, but this does not stop most people from harvesting most of the time. Everybody spending vast amounts of time harvesting is a symtom of other things in the game being out of balance.

 

When i started playing the game I would have been content just killing and slaughtering animals in the wilderness. The last thing i wanted to do for money was harvest. But there are two major problems with this. Harvesting is faster xp and it makes more money. So instead of adding restrictions on harvesting.. remove the xp cap and instead:

 

So my suggestions are:

- increase the spawn points for larger game such as deer, boar, bears, etc.

- decrease the spawn time for these animals/monsters

- increase the money you can get from these animals drops

- increase the xp you get from casting spells, manufacturing, etc.

 

When you make other things players can do with their time you will be amazed how quickly you will see people harvesting less and doing all the other things more often.

 

Players that cheat will always try to think of ways to macro different things in the game, but instead of punishing all the other players that are just trying to be effecient in their time earning xp or cash my suggestion is to balance out the other things to make them more worthwhile. In every MMO game and fantasy game I have played from Diablo, Runescape, Final Fantasy, etc. people do what gets them from point "A" to "B" the fastest. In this game the way it is now... people harvest.

 

I hope you consider these suggestions carefully to enhance the future versions of the game so when i walk through a town or a forest i see more people doing something and less people all gathered around the nearest harvest resource near a tavern.. etc.

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This game is not just about fighting, It is there to get lots of people who want to do many diffrent things not just go and kill things. The harvest cap is there to stop people form leveling up there OA at a stuipdly fast rate. For me any harv exp I get is good, but I go harvesting for the ingrediants to make stuff rather than just to make money or get EXP.

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The xp limit in harvesting wasn't set to prevent players from harvesting o.O

It was made to prevent players from seting character for zillions hours harvesting to earn easy xp.

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The exp limit is so you don't have level 90 in a week... since it gets you exp so quick, the limit balances it out with other skills.

 

-But there still should be more animal/monster spawns... I would LOVE to see Eternal Lands more combat based.

-I don't have much patience. I'm not like others who can sit and click mix for hours on end..

-There should be a ranged skill, with bows and arrows, plus throwing axes, throwing knives...

-And much more attack spells.

Edited by MindFreak

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This game is not just about fighting, It is there to get lots of people who want to do many diffrent things not just go and kill things. The harvest cap is there to stop people form leveling up there OA at a stuipdly fast rate. For me any harv exp I get is good, but I go harvesting for the ingrediants to make stuff rather than just to make money or get EXP.

200661[/snapback]

 

I agree; I don't think the game is just about fighting. But you agree with my basic precept people want to do lots of different things. Although I choose fighting (because thats what i would like to do in the game) you probably noticed i didn't make statements that had to do with combat alone. You should be able to specialize in what you like to do in the game and do it. The different categories of what there is to do are unbalanced. In game you can not make the same money making potions as you can harvesting. This is because you have to pay someone to harvest for you, and if you look at the prices and the amount of xp growth per hour it is heavily skewed towards harvesters.

 

You misunderstand the basics of game design if you think games are not a set of rewards based on labors. In this game Money and XP gained from doing tasks are the thing that motivates most players. Sorry if you don't like it: it is a Fact.

 

The game developers need to balance the rewards of performing other tasks using xp and money as a motivator to keep everyone from doing the same thing. This goes for practically any game made. In counter strike you have ppl going for kills and headshots. In WoW you have people going for rare items and xp. This is the way almost all games are... people go for what gives them the reward. So if you balance out the xp and income you can make from different specializations you completely eliminate the problem.

 

It is wrong to cap xp on harvesters. What if someone wants to just do one thing and specilize it... what is so wrong with that? So what if they are a level 90 harvester as opposed to being a level 90 fighter? They should be pathetic at combat and everything else. It is a basic game design error that came from people not planning out and balancing tasks. I am tring to save these good designers from making a mistake and pointing it out to them. Everyone makes mistakes... it isn't a big deal. However ignoring problems just make them worse since you are only fighting symptoms and not actually fixing a problem.

 

I hope they take these ideas to heart to fix game play errors as all the work they have done shows real potential to make a great game.

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because they already have an easier job than anyone else (harvesting is the easiest skill, and easiest to gain huge levels in)

and because the XP from havesting also increases OA, and they gain PP too easy

 

if you want a higher cap, here's my proposal: make the cap 1k (few people would actually reach that) and reduce XP from harvests to 1/8th what it is now. maybe 1/5 max

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part of your suggestion I find as a major problem - and that is that it tries to create another money flood in the economy, which is already FAR too saturated as is.

 

The present used solution to this problem has been to open up new drains on money - items you can only get from an NPC (most tools, vials, leather and thread, vials, books, ...). While this is an admirable attempt, this only pushes people to exploit the floods even more, causing the need for more drains -> more flood exploitation -> more drains... you see where I'm going?

 

Personally, I feel that if animal products were worth more, it would cause great problems with people killing animals, getting mucho money like the harvesters, and ruining the economy even further.

 

The answer is to stop up the floods, if you ask me. And in that, I think the flowers gone from VotD graveyard was a step in the right direction. Maybe if the flowers could be revalued to half or less of their current value, it would require people to actually get into playing the game before trying to master it.

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How would it create a money flood? Its called equilibrium... all professions at the equivelent level should make the same money as harvesters. FFS how many hours do you want a player to spend just getting a titanium short sword? Don't you feel a level 25 fighter should be able to get one? How does it bring more money into the game when no occupation brings in money faster then any other? If anything it stablizes the economy and stops everyone from just sitting around and harvesting.

 

I have over 20 levels of harvesting.. which took about 25 hours of game time and i still can not afford more then basic low level weapons and armor (made around 15k)... and that is with a harvesters cloak. It feels like players are standing around not making progress in the game.. is that the way you want it since you are high level players? Seriously this has got to change if you want to encourage new players to join EL.. if not your are giving your game the kiss of death.

Edited by ph3r3

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for what it is worth here is my take on that:

 

Harvesting is not the root of all evil, for without people (such as myself) dedicating themselves to harvesting and making essences (HE is my personal choice), fighters would not have the ability to do marathon sessions, so harvesters play a vital role in the game.

 

Fighting is the customer of harvesting, and so are most of the other skills down the line:

No harvesting = no essences = no fighting = no furs = no clothes or armour = no game. Take any one of them out and the game will collapse.

 

I think the balance is right, and as this is a roleplaying game people are free to choose their own path, I chose the alchemist role, and because of that choice I became an accomplished harvester, not the other way around.

 

A couple of months ago I set myself a target - to own a thermal serp.

 

I recently acquired one because I went out there day in, day out and made (at a guess) 100,000 Health Essences and sold them.

 

I needed money, so I couldn't pay someone to mine them for me, my only choice was to harvest them myself, gaining a number of levels in the process (I am 55 harvest now).

 

To get to 55 harvest (I am at 2.611 million XP) has taken a long time - I get 34 exp per silver, so a quick bit of mental math gives me:

 

2,611,748 / (34*120) = 2,611,748 / 4080 = 640 ingame hours dedicated to harvesting just for the level, and I know you can not call that anything other than true commitment.

 

That figure doesn't show any of the (decidedly numerous) hours that I logged in after the harvest hour, and didn't get any experience for.

 

You also complain about the number of spawns ingame.. I can just imagine your comments if all the manufacturers, alchemists and harvesters down tools and go and fight all "your" animals, you would not have a problem with us working in the mines then, would you?

 

I await your reply now that someone armed with more than just an opinion has spoken.

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I don't get why people are so obessed with getting the big weapons and armour. I played this game for a year and never got any good armour or weapons, even this time I have only got a quarterstaff. I earn money to buy ingrediants that I have to buy to advance my levels. The money at the moment is a problem, to much coming in and not enough going out. Before the big crash the money situation was a disaster. People had 1000's of gold coins and where still poor. Getting more money for animal drops would just bring more money into the game.

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because they already have an easier job than anyone else (harvesting is the easiest skill, and easiest to gain huge levels in)

and because the XP from havesting also increases OA, and they gain PP too easy

200988[/snapback]

Erm you're joking, right?

I have 22 will, and I harvest titanium ore. I get 6600 exp PER hour. Have you taken a peek at how much exp. an alchemist or fighter gets in an hour? What's 6600 exp? Three fluffies? Four ogres? Plus you have to sit there and make sure you are paying attention to the harvest events, it's not like you sit there for 5 minutes of that hour getting your 6600 exp. Now it takes at least half of that hour, not to count travel time if you want to go do anything else. So pretty much that's it.

 

Edit: I am #2 or #3 in harvesting, depending on the day (odd but whatever), I have level 86 there. #2 in att/def fighting has 114/116 a/d levels. You know how much exp difference that is?!

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because they already have an easier job than anyone else (harvesting is the easiest skill, and easiest to gain huge levels in)

and because the XP from havesting also increases OA, and they gain PP too easy

 

if you want a higher cap, here's my proposal: make the cap 1k (few people would actually reach that) and reduce XP from harvests to 1/8th what it is now. maybe 1/5 max

200988[/snapback]

Erm you're joking, right?

I have 22 will, and I harvest titanium ore. I get 6600 exp PER hour. Have you taken a peek at how much exp. an alchemist or fighter gets in an hour? What's 6600 exp? Three fluffies? Four ogres? Plus you have to sit there and make sure you are paying attention to the harvest events, it's not like you sit there for 5 minutes of that hour getting your 6600 exp. Now it takes at least half of that hour, not to count travel time if you want to go do anything else. So pretty much that's it.

 

Edit: I am #2 or #3 in harvesting, depending on the day (odd but whatever), I have level 86 there. #2 in att/def fighting has 114/116 a/d levels. You know how much exp difference that is?!

201385[/snapback]

sorry, I need to clarify this. I mean harvesting is easy in that it's automatic. it's freakin slow to grow at higher levels, but it's low interaction for the player. (and I'm harv72 or something, so I do now about it)

it takes as little as one click and then go read your emails, forums, whatever and you can come back up to 6k XP richer. and yeah, there's harvest events, but that don't always pop up... I sometimes go the whole 120 in the silver mines without an event (and I've spent a LOT of hours in the silver mines)

 

the playes' actions to harvest is easy. gaining harvesting levels (at least a while after the start) isn't

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Erm you're joking, right?

I have 22 will, and I harvest titanium ore. I get 6600 exp PER hour.  Have you taken a peek at how much exp. an alchemist or fighter gets in an hour?  What's 6600 exp? Three fluffies?  Four ogres?  Plus you have to sit there and make sure you are paying attention to the harvest events, it's not like you sit there for 5 minutes of that hour getting your 6600 exp.  Now it takes at least half of that hour, not to count travel time if you want to go do anything else.  So pretty much that's it.

 

Edit: I am #2 or #3 in harvesting, depending on the day (odd but whatever), I have level 86 there.  #2 in att/def fighting has 114/116 a/d levels.  You know how much exp difference that is?!

201385[/snapback]

sorry, I need to clarify this. I mean harvesting is easy in that it's automatic. it's freakin slow to grow at higher levels, but it's low interaction for the player. (and I'm harv72 or something, so I do now about it)

it takes as little as one click and then go read your emails, forums, whatever and you can come back up to 6k XP richer. and yeah, there's harvest events, but that don't always pop up... I sometimes go the whole 120 in the silver mines without an event (and I've spent a LOT of hours in the silver mines)

 

the playes' actions to harvest is easy. gaining harvesting levels (at least a while after the start) isn't

201393[/snapback]

Erm how much more difficult is it to click on an ogre?

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Erm how much more difficult is it to click on an ogre?

201401[/snapback]

not much if he's stationary. but there's the finding/hunting and you have to be far more careful as far as him killing you goes ;) it's not something most people can do while not watching the screen

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not much if he's stationary. but there's the finding/hunting and you have to be far more careful as far as him killing you goes ;) it's not something most people can do while not watching the screen

201403[/snapback]

Hmmm I've seen a fair number of harvesting deaths too :( I've chatted fighting as much as I've chatted harvesting, and I get loads of nature event stops harvesting. Not everybody just harvests silver at level 76. Point here is that you can't do anything else anyway while you harvest, so it isn't like extra added bonus easy experience. Its a choice that eliminates gaining exp in other skills during that same time. (Example: fighting you also can train magic, potions, and summoning as well at the same time).

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if you want a higher cap, here's my proposal: make the cap 1k (few people would actually reach that) and reduce XP from harvests to 1/8th what it is now. maybe 1/5 max

I would really not like that. As it is now (with the 120 harvest event cap) I can go harvest each hour and still have time to do other stuff before the next hour's harvest. If the rate were dropped to 1/5 or 1/8 then that's all you could do in the hour is harvest (for experience). There's be no time to do anything else.

 

The "easy" harvest experience really only applies for the lower levels. When it takes 2 million points to get to the next level there's nothing "easy" about it. But with the current system you can at least play the game and have fun while slowely chipping away at the next harvest level.

 

I say leave it as it is.

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How would it create a money flood? Its called equilibrium... all professions at the equivelent level should make the same money as harvesters. FFS how many hours do you want a player to spend just getting a titanium short sword? Don't you feel a level 25 fighter should be able to get one? How does it bring more money into the game when no occupation brings in money faster then any other? If anything it stablizes the economy and stops everyone from just sitting around and harvesting.

201358[/snapback]

there already is a money flood from harvesters - many roads to easy money are lined with flowers - believe me, I know this one. I don't think any experience should change - unless it were made for MORE harvest exp - gaining levels the higher you go in harvesting is slow - you run out of the little stuff to gain on much quicker than fighting.

 

No, personally, I DON'T think a level 25 fighter should have a titanium short sword - even though I did at that point, because it was given to me. Right now, I have my own full set of Iron plate and even a titanium serpent - I won these in contests. I never use them, nor should I - my atk/def levels are only 36/35. Problem is, IMO, after a very short time of harvesting, you can see all the time people with virtually no levels getting full plate.

 

My opinion - the gold flow for harvesting needs to tone down if you want balance. Bringing in another way to make money in our already unbalanced economy is only asking for trouble.

I have over 20 levels of harvesting.. which took about 25 hours of game time and i still can not afford more then basic low level weapons and armor (made around 15k)... and that is with a harvesters cloak. It feels like players are standing around not making progress in the game.. is that the way you want it since you are high level players? Seriously this has got to change if you want to encourage new players to join EL.. if not your are giving your game the kiss of death.

201358[/snapback]

Alright - here's what my stats are - 68 harvest, 64 alchemy, and 34 manufacture. Every one of my levels except crafting and summoning are in the 20s or better.

 

I'm asking you - why should every player be able to get full plate and a serpent in a week? What value does the best armor have in the game if everyone can get it for nothing? Not to mention the fact that every new money sink causes more people to plop down at the already abused floods - honestly, what is the point to a game that has no sense of accomplishment, when you finally reach the threshold of when you can make some of the best armor and weapons - and you see a newbie who's played for a week wearing what it took you almost a year to do?

 

Simple put, money doesn't need to come in to or out of the economy - it needs not to come in to begin with. At least, this is how I feel.

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I think the problem of this suggestion is were conflicting money from harvesting and exp from harvesting...

 

To fix the money here's a suggestion, take away the PL fruit... or fill PL with goblins or have a spawn near the fruit >.> now see that's not the only thing you have to do, you gotta take it away, because then you get the lvl 21 def peeps, then you have to take away the Nordcarn fruit, taking away those would slow down the money floods extremely, there could also be level limits along with recommended lvl's, like have the recommended lvl for fruit lvl 18 but the requirement lvl 14 or something >.>

 

The cap needs to be raised atleast to 160, or just bring some of the old capes back, I love the old capes, those helped lots :hiya: it rewarded people for actually taking the time to lvl rather then just getting a few pp and getting a perk for it or harvesting for like 4 hours and getting a cape

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lol i remember the capes :hiya: i was really proud when i got my fighters cape when i reached lvl 30 if i'm not mistaken it was red, and wasn't the harvesters cape green?

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lol i remember the capes :icon13: i was really proud when i got my fighters cape when i reached lvl 30  if i'm not mistaken it was red, and wasn't the harvesters cape green?

202101[/snapback]

Fighter's cape was brown, harvesters cape was green, and the potions cape (mm equivilent) was white :D Yeah I loved finally being able to wear my potions cape.

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You have the Exp limit to control Exp. But one of the main problems is that harvesing just brings far too much money into the economy, so people can afford to sell their goods at rock bottom prices, meaning the rest of the market has to compensate and follow suit. Harvesting needs to be more of a chore, so that people cant just sit down, and go semi-afk, whilst they put big bucks in the bank. (nice alliteration eh? :))

 

Why not start to develop a more dynamic harvesting system? You cant do something like increase MN attacks, because then people would just get frustrated. Not fun.

 

You need to make harvesting more involving. How i have seen it combatted on many games is to have one harvestable object i.e ore rock, store up to a certain ammount of ore. Say for example, 5-30. You harvest at the same rate, one by one, but once the ore is depleted from teh rock, you have to find anotehr rock to clink away at...and lets say you cant mine the same rock within 30 seconds or something as it's reserves restore ore back into it.

 

This is just a poor example of how to fix this problem, im sure if people put their minds to it, a proper solution can be arrived at.

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But one of the main problems is that harvesing just brings far too much money into the economy, so people can afford to sell their goods at rock bottom prices, meaning the rest of the market has to compensate and follow suit.

202564[/snapback]

 

So you mean that ppl who harvest accumulate so much money that they will do other things just for fun (like crafting) and sell those items "at rock bottom prices".

Does that really make sense to you? or are you under the assumption that crafters do not harvest?

 

 

 

Harvesting needs to be more of a chore, so that people cant just sit down, and go semi-afk, whilst they put big bucks in the bank. (nice alliteration eh? :mace:)

 

202564[/snapback]

 

Harevesting is the most basic skill of them all (well some fighting could go in there too I guess). So everybody harvest at one point or another. Not all harvesting is made for the sole purpose of putting "big bucks in the bank" .

 

If this is the problem why don't you try the same and put you own big bucks in the bank?

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About harvesting... it is good as it is now, hourly limit is balanced well, just look on TOP 50 in harvesting, there are no insane lvls in this skill.

 

-But there still should be more animal/monster spawns... I would LOVE to see Eternal Lands more combat based.

-I don't have much patience. I'm not like others who can sit and click mix for hours on end..

-There should be a ranged skill, with bows and arrows, plus throwing axes, throwing knives...

-And much more attack spells.

 

Fighters ALREADY have too big advanage in this game. Just compare time you spent on fighting to time spent on any other skills, and you will see that in same time people can get lvl 117 attack or/and lvl 120 defence and only like 87 in alchemy (which is best/fastest way to get exp from all non-combat skills)

 

If you want to see more combat based game, don't have patience for non-combat skills and want more weapons and attack spells i'm suggesting you to go play Conquer Online - it has everything you mentioned, 99% fighting - 1% harvesting. IDEAL !

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