Quest request unclear ("iron chains")

[sgik]

A certain NPC asks for "iron chains" for a quest. I inquired in chat if that meant "Iron Chainmail Torso Armor" and was told that it did. I was also asked to report my uncertainty regarding what was meant by "iron chains"; hence this post.

[Entropy]

Would really help if you posted the NPC name..

[sgik]

Would really help if you posted the NPC name..

I didn't want to give too much away. I know that we aren't supposed to reveal too much about quests.

Since there isn't anything (to my knowledge) called "iron chains" in the game, I thought that you could find it easily by searching for that term in the quest source text.

Anyway, the NPC's name is Daritha.

[Zamirah]

The NPC - Gerald - sells them as Iron Chains, not Iron Chain Mail.

[Entropy]

Is there any other "Iron chain" in the game?

[FeLkkU]

As far as I know, no. There is only the "iron chainmail torso armor" that everyone calls as "iron chain(mail)". I don't see much of a problem there.

[sgik]

Is there any other "Iron chain" in the game?

I don't know. But even if there isn't, you should call it "iron chains" everywhere or "iron chain-mail torso armor" everywhere. I think the latter, because: What happens if, sometime in the future, you decide to add actual iron chain to the game? For example, you may decide at some point to add that mace-like thingee where the spiked ball is attached to the handle by a length of iron chain. You would need a short length of iron chain to manufacture that weapon. Or you might use iron chains for some other purpose (say, to sell to a ship's captain (e.g., Kane) for anchor chains).

 

Whether or not you ever add actual iron chains to the game, referring to iron chain-mail torso armor as "iron chains" is confusing. If you want to use a shorter name, call it "chain mail" or "chain-mail", terms which are more likely to be familiar to ordinary people, and less likely to be confused with actual iron chains.

 

Edit: Addenda:

According to the wikipedia page, the phrase "chain mail" didn't come into use until the 18th century. Prior to that time, it was known simply as "mail" (no "iron", no "chains"). Also, according to that page, the proper term for "iron chain-mail torso armor" is a "byrnie" (although I can sort of see why you might not want to use that name).

Finally, google "iron chains" (including quotes), then google "chain mail" (including quotes) to see which term apparently describes the item better.

Edited September 26, 2010 by sgik

[Maxine]

Part of the deal with quests is that they need not be consistent and can require some knowledge of the game. I dont see any reason why an item cannot have different names in different NPC texts. I specifically recall an NPC talking about bricks, which should be clear to players as referring to an actual in game item.

In this case all items asked for are manufacturable or NPC buyable armor and weapons. In this context it is completely clear what the item requested is.

The context of this term is the game eternal lands, not wikipedia.

Pleas dont waste any more time on such a trivial name issue. There are actual bugs out there that need fixing, this is NOT one of them.

[sgik]

In this context it is completely clear what the item requested is.

Well, it wasn't clear to me, which is why I posted about it (read my first post), but if you're not going to fix it, that's your privilege.

For the record, I talked to the other NPC you mentioned, and I have no idea what a "brick" is either (other than an actual brick).

[eagleprince]

In this context it is completely clear what the item requested is.

Well, it wasn't clear to me, which is why I posted about it (read my first post), but if you're not going to fix it, that's your privilege.

For the record, I talked to the other NPC you mentioned, and I have no idea what a "brick" is either (other than an actual brick).

A brick is in-game slang for 'rostogol stone'. It is to do with radu's castle, but that's another story.

 

However, I think it does lend weight to your original point about consistency. I personally do not think that NPCs should be calling rostos bricks.

[Aislinn]

Personally, I have always loved the inconsistent quirks of EL.

[korrode]

Personally, I have always loved the inconsistent quirks of EL.

meh, i'm the opposite. whatever the item is called when u 'look' (eye cursor) at it should match the encyclopaedia and all NPC dialogue about the items.

 

imo

[dipi]

IMO there is a point of confusion. We are talking about an armor (chainmail) but if you just say "iron chains" it could reffers to chains like a weapon (wich doesnt exist in the game, creating more confusion).

[Sithis]

not that hard to figure out

[sgik]

One possible way to fix this problem would be to have a toggle setting similar to the "#humor" toggle. Call it "#exposit", "#elaborate", "#expound", or something similar. When set, it could put the real item name in brackets after the slang or less familiar name. The elite players who seem to know everything could have it turned off, while the rest of us who like things to be clear could have it turned on. In the case that I originally whined about (and a similar complaint that I made here), with #exposit turned on it would look like "iron chains [iron chainmail torso armor]", whereas the stuff in brackets wouldn't appear if "#exposit" was turned off. Similarly, when Caton (the guy trying to rebuild his church) asks for a brick (which means "brick" to anyone who doesn't know that it means "rostogol stone"), the text would look something like "While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I was looking for an actual brick [rostogol stone].". This could also be used to indicate whether something is a real quest or not ("Please tell Christina what happened [not a real quest]."), so people don't waste their time going through the whole dialog again with some drunk slut in a bar after some wimp asks me to talk to her while he cowers in a mine after accidentally bashing the dwarf king.

[bkc56]

One possible way to fix this problem would be ...

Another (easier) fix would be to get a programmer who's just a bit OCD and who likes to have everything all consistent and correct rather than just "good enough".

[Aislinn]

One possible way to fix this problem would be ...

Another (easier) fix would be to get a programmer who's just a bit OCD and who likes to have everything all consistent and correct rather than just "good enough".

That statement assumes a lot.

Consistent does not always mean correct.

Inconsistent does not always mean somebody viewed that inconsistency as "just good enough" but maybe it was intended that way.

Not everyone wants EL to be a monotonous statistical chart.

[bkc56]

Inconsistent does not always mean somebody viewed that inconsistency as "just good enough" but maybe it was intended that way.

As a general rule I would agree with your points, but when I see examples like the following:

 

Scientists day

English: No knowledge required today (for harvest, manufacture, alchemy, etc.).

Role Playing: Umm, just read the English description, I don't feel like making a 'story' about it, it's 12 am and I have to go to work tomorrow.

 

That has never been fixed for a proper role playing description, it's pretty clear that some stuff is in fact "good enough" and not worth the time/effort to make it right. There are things in the game that are clearly intended for humor, but I don't buy that the above is one of them.

[extrapolation]

That one is my favourite RP description, seriously. I like it for the same reason as I like it when tankel tells you he knew your name because it was written above your head.

 

Inconsistent does not always mean somebody viewed that inconsistency as "just good enough" but maybe it was intended that way.

As a general rule I would agree with your points, but when I see examples like the following:

 

Scientists day

English: No knowledge required today (for harvest, manufacture, alchemy, etc.).

Role Playing: Umm, just read the English description, I don't feel like making a 'story' about it, it's 12 am and I have to go to work tomorrow.

 

That has never been fixed for a proper role playing description, it's pretty clear that some stuff is in fact "good enough" and not worth the time/effort to make it right. There are things in the game that are clearly intended for humor, but I don't buy that the above is one of them.

[Entris]

I for one has never heard anyone say "Iron Chainmail Torso Armor" when they are talking about them, always been Iron chains and it's not that hard to look in the Encyc and see what has Iron Chain in it and draw the conclution that it is Iron Chainmail in the Torso armor section they are talking about since there aint anything else that could fit in to those words.

 

Off topic:

If the developers would settle for "just good enough" i don't think we would have as many updates and fixes that we have in EL so saying something like that is just not well thought thru, i like the RP for the scientists day it always makes me smile and i am just guessing here but i think Radu intended to fix that line later when he got some more time to do it but noticed that it worked and ppl didn't have anything against it.

Or he just down prioritised it to do other more important things and will fix it later i don't know i am just guessing here but I think it is funny.