FCW respawn

[korrode]

When the TS failing effect got removed some new single FCW and MCW spawns were added and their respawn time was lowered.

 

Then a bit later on there was two server updates, here's quotes from each:

Increased the FCW spawn time a little.

Increased the FCW spawn a little

I assume one of those was a typo, as both the FCW and MCW respawns got increased from ~30 seconds to ~40.

 

Now, the MCW respawn going back up to 40sec, as much as a selfish me would like to say otherwise, is balanced. The adjustment to the FCW respawn on the other hand is not.

 

All raising the FCW respawn has done is make Tirnym 3x easier to hold for one person (easier to keep the chims at the spawn i mean, as they don't respawn too quickly so that you're not finished killing the others) and made all the single spawns in Kusamura and Willowvine basically useless.

Feros or DCW is a better choice than FCW for just about anyone to train, please consider changing their respawn back down to 30 seconds to make the single spawns useful and the Tirnym 3x spawn harder for one person to keep all the chims at.

 

Before some mixers come jumping on this thread yelling "omg korrode teh selfish", fyi: i don't train FCW, and even with a lowered respawn i still wouldn't.

[Light Lan]

yesterday and today I spent some of my time doing tests with fchims and dchims. comparing resource usage, exp/h and figuring out armor setup.

 

the results:

http://media.lightlan.de/pics/el/dchim_expph.jpg

 

http://media.lightlan.de/pics/el/fchim_test1.jpg

http://media.lightlan.de/pics/el/fchim_test2.jpg

http://media.lightlan.de/pics/el/fchim_test3.jpg

 

 

as seen, I get roughly 270k/h from dchims.

if you extrapolate the numbers from the fchims, you see I get to ~240k/h no matter what armor setup.

 

also I use 2-3times as much resources on fchims, comparing to dchims (see magic exp)

 

 

all testing done on single spawns. only actual spawntime been tested. time for searching for spawn not included in either of the screenies.(counters reset when at spawn)

 

so yes, I do think the fchim respawn could do with some lowering. the current respawn time will continue to make me go to dchims.

[Lorck]

all testing done on single spawns. only actual spawntime been tested. time for searching for spawn not included in either of the screenies.(counters reset when at spawn)

I used to train in kusamura jungle, when it had cyclops, and it was a big pain to actually search for the spawn. Big map, 4 different chims, you could never know where it respawned, and since it was completely open map, the chim could runaway and the whole process start again. Please add more monsters to Kusamura, the map seems empty when i visit it, and decrease the FCW spawn time, of course! Edited September 20, 2009 by Lorck

[ProHibited]

About FCW,

 

I train attack on them using leathers or some chain body... No CoL of course. BLocking 5% of the hits & using MD I hardly use any srs. So why 'test' them with full gear and NMT?

Gaining only attack exp wont give high overall but sometimes magic exp (MD+restore) can be very important.

 

I am just saying, not only A/D exp should be considered when looking at spawns. Same for DCW which can be Mana Drained too.

[korrode]

Well, that is one method of training you can do if you want only attack and magic exp (i don't recommend it at all, but eh; bygones be bygones), but nonetheless, the DCW would still be the better option, even using the training method you propose.

 

They both have 100 defense and 250 health but the DCW has 15 sec less respawn. you can't argue with maths ^^

...and increasing DCW respawn isn't the answer either, it would make them less attractive and push more people back to feros/fluff.

 

So why 'test' them with full gear and NMT?

What do you mean why?

Full gear and NMT is 'the norm', the way of training them you describe is the unusual way...

The better question would be:

So why 'test' them with chains and no CoL when your char's only capable of blocking 5% of their hits?

 

I really wish that just for once some rare case person with a highly unusual training method wouldn't come out of the woodwork to dispute the validity of a monster stats change when the cold hard facts show basically no one is using the monster in question.

EDIT2 - Further elaboration:

The FCW is supposed to be used in the monster line-up for "normal" training, this has been illustrated by Radu multiple times.

The FCW had single spawns added, had it's crit rate reduced and had it's armor reduced when the TS fail effect was removed, all those changes were made to make the FCW more attractive.

It's not a 'special case', like say the Phantom Warrior (which is not designed for 'normal' melee training), it's meant to be regularly used for "normal" training..

 

If you don't believe me stop by the single FCW spawns now and then and see for yourself.

Hell you can even PM me ingame for coords.

 

EDIT:

Also, what spawn do you use for that training method? the 2x FCW in Tirnym? or a single spawn?

Edited September 20, 2009 by Korrode

[ProHibited]

Well of course I play on the pk server and don't know all about 'required' spawn times on main. I just wanted to say that some mobs (those you can MD) can be used to train magic. The forest chims are an excellent way to train magics on. Why did I mention I just block 5%? Just to show it is not required to block damage at all when you are just there to get some loot, attack exp and a lot of magic exp...

 

Going to DCW (on main) is probably not such a good option since all spawns are taken right??

Same for ranging monsters, if the 'spawns' are taken, the mobs don't walk past the 'safe zones'...

I can use double spawns of course, but will end up being multid because I use a low damage weapon. I usually like to just walk trough tyrnim and kill what I see (mountains ignore me).

[korrode]

I just wanted to say that some mobs (those you can MD) can be used to train magic.

Ok.

I just don't see why you've brought it up on this thread, it sounds like something that should be in the Skills->Combat section of the forums as advice for other players.

 

How does what you've said relate to their respawn?

Are you saying the respawn time is fine as it is? or do you agree it would be better if changed as i suggest?

Edited September 20, 2009 by Korrode

[ProHibited]

Well you know,,

 

Keep in mind I play on the pk server and have my mind set to different problems, spawn time just does not seem important to me. Less efficient use of a spawn (longer spawn time) is not really a problem for me personally, when I train such an 'inefficient' spawn I allow myself to do other things while training. For you it is obviously the goal to use all spawns efficiently (exp/hour).

 

Edit: I am sure there are other fighters who choose an 'inefficient' spawn so that they can work on some other things (outside of EL) at the same time. Not everyone 'demands' different spawn times.

Edit: Decided to respond because I see this Chim issue keeps coming up from time to time. I'm no mixer, but maybe because I prefer the PK-server that means I don't qualify to express my thoughts on the matter

Edited September 20, 2009 by ProHibited

[chr0nik]

Well you know,,

 

Keep in mind I play on the pk server and have my mind set to different problems, spawn time just does not seem important to me. Less efficient use of a spawn (longer spawn time) is not really a problem for me personally, when I train such an 'inefficient' spawn I allow myself to do other things while training. For you it is obviously the goal to use all spawns efficiently (exp/hour).

 

Edit: I am sure there are other fighters who choose an 'inefficient' spawn so that they can work on some other things (outside of EL) at the same time. Not everyone 'demands' different spawn times.

Edit: Decided to respond because I see this Chim issue keeps coming up from time to time. I'm no mixer, but maybe because I prefer the PK-server that means I don't qualify to express my thoughts on the matter

It's not a demand, it's a reasonable suggestion, hence the location of the thread in the "Suggestions" forum. I know plenty of people who train the single fchim spawns in Kusa and Willowvine and I myself sometimes serp them when dc spawns are tied up. I think the point has already been established and sufficient reasoning provided by Korrode and LightLan that a decrease in spawn times may improve the usage of those spawns. Everything else will likely fall into the category of "omfg Korrode is ruining EL" or "those darn fighters are never happy."

[korrode]

Less efficient use of a spawn (longer spawn time) is not really a problem for me personally, when I train such an 'inefficient' spawn I allow myself to do other things while training. For you it is obviously the goal to use all spawns efficiently (exp/hour).

Mostly i base statements around the usefulness of different creatures on first-hand checking of spawn usage regularity and discussion with many combat trainers in EL.

Also, i don't just consider exp/hr, i also consider exp/resource, gc/hr, gc/resource... but even then, all those are just the 'why', if many people were using these spawns irrelevant of the exp or gc per hour or resource being worse than what's meant to be lesser creatures, i wouldn't be making the suggestion.

 

Edit: I am sure there are other fighters who choose an 'inefficient' spawn so that they can work on some other things (outside of EL) at the same time. Not everyone 'demands' different spawn times.

I actually often just serp a single MCW because i'm doing many things on my computer at once, something that exp per hour wise for me is less than half of what i could be earning training elsewhere. The gc/hour isn't great either, but i can't deny the gc/resource is ok ...anyways the point is, i'm not Mr.PermaTraining-ExpHungry, i just see creatures that are meant to be getting used not being used, and through discussion with others and logical conclusion suggest what can be changed to get them used without destroying the usefulness of another creature.

[Norm]

I have found the same problems with single FCW spawns in KJ and WV. It can be difficult to get a spawn straightened out, and the re spawn times make it not really worth it a lot of times, when you know you can easily get a DCW spawn in Melinins or Bethel, even if it means much greater att exp then def, for me at least. I would love to see the spawn time dropped ~5 to 10 seconds, would make them much more usable imo. *Not to mention to ubber-lag in I get in KJ and WV*. Tbh, best FCW spawn in game is in kf, but good luck training it.

[hussam]

When the TS failing effect got removed some new single FCW and MCW spawns were added and their respawn time was lowered.

 

Then a bit later on there was two server updates, here's quotes from each:

Increased the FCW spawn time a little.

Increased the FCW spawn a little

I assume one of those was a typo, as both the FCW and MCW respawns got increased from ~30 seconds to ~40.

 

Now, the MCW respawn going back up to 40sec, as much as a selfish me would like to say otherwise, is balanced. The adjustment to the FCW respawn on the other hand is not.

 

All raising the FCW respawn has done is make Tirnym 3x easier to hold for one person (easier to keep the chims at the spawn i mean, as they don't respawn too quickly so that you're not finished killing the others) and made all the single spawns in Kusamura and Willowvine basically useless.

Feros or DCW is a better choice than FCW for just about anyone to train, please consider changing their respawn back down to 30 seconds to make the single spawns useful and the Tirnym 3x spawn harder for one person to keep all the chims at.

 

Before some mixers come jumping on this thread yelling "omg korrode teh selfish", fyi: i don't train FCW, and even with a lowered respawn i still wouldn't.

I totally agree with this. If Fchim respawn time was lower, people won't always be able handle the double fchim spawn in tirnym which means two people can train there instead of one. Also it means single spawns will be more useful because less respawn waiting time means more hourly experience.

[korrode]

...and with the implementation of Legionnaire Orc, this is needed now even more than before.

 

The LOrcs are accelerating the levelling of the very high level a/d'ers, (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, if levelling is accelerated all the way to the cap, for newer players to reach end-game is less of an epic drag) but at the moment trainers are getting a big exp slow-down from ~110-120's a/d, a bridge monster is needed. The FCW is the obvious said bridge monster, just the re-spawn is too long.

[asgnny]

...and with the implementation of Legionnaire Orc, this is needed now even more than before.

 

The LOrcs are accelerating the levelling of the very high level a/d'ers, (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, if levelling is accelerated all the way to the cap, for newer players to reach end-game is less of an epic drag) but at the moment trainers are getting a big exp slow-down from ~110-120's a/d, a bridge monster is needed. The FCW is the obvious said bridge monster, just the re-spawn is too long.

 

The legionnaire orc offers better exp per hour than most other monsters for higher level players, however if your concern is about reaching caps, why not figure out how many hours of training it would take someone to reach the cap? Someone at 110-120s a/d earning even 200k/h will earn a/d levels a lot faster than someone on Legionnaire orcs at 400k/h.

 

If you're truly concerned about so many high level a/d'ers gaining exp too fast, get rid of the "double" LOrc spawns. I don't think the single spawns are any cause for concern. I can suggest two spawn points (still in line with the storyline) which would eliminate the idea of a double spawn there.

[korrode]

Someone at 110-120s a/d earning even 200k/h will earn a/d levels a lot faster than someone on Legionnaire orcs at 400k/h.

Nonetheless, their levelling should be accelerated.

(EDIT: I may regret that when the only 2 spawns in the game i can make 'good' exp on are more often taken than they are now, but of course one assumes the logical action of adding more such spawns would be taken.)

(EDIT2: Then again, i'll be on LOrcs soon enough )

 

And simply; why not 'fix' the FCW?

 

If you're truly concerned about so many high level a/d'ers gaining exp too fast,

I'm not concerned with it at all.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Korrode

[hussam]

What about moving the two Fchims in Tirnym a bit apart from each other and decreasing the respawn time a bit? This way a player can't take both spawns. Instead two people can use the two Fchims.

[hussam]

Come to think of it. high respawn time may be good for single fchim spawns. It gives advantage to people who train for experience over farmers

Edited December 24, 2009 by hussam

[bigkav]

uh.. lowering the respawn time would be more beneficial to both parties.. besides, I doubt highly with the current respawn rate there's not too many people training single fcw for exp.