"Market" value of EFE?

[Vanyel]

I have even a better idea then. So many new players to the game and they're so in disadvantage. Let's wipe out all our storages, all our skills and other attributes. Isn't it a great idea.

Honestly, I get the impression you've got an idea, haven't thought it out much (don't want to say at all), posted and now you will call it flaming or personal attacks as I completely disagree with you and keep thinking your idea is just a yelling of a person that doesn't have EFE and doesn't want others to have them.

Have you even thought by a tad bit that so called 'hoarders' have been saving the outcome of their work - namely EFEs - as they had some aims? Why would you bother with other people, you haven't done it, right?

 

@personal attacks

I don't PM people calling them 'jerks/idiots/whatever' and I always start my PMs with proper greetings. Quite opposite to you. Maybe you should learn something... even from a jerk (as you were nice to call me in PM) like me?

 

<edit>

When I think about it I find a relation between this suggestion and NMT breakable issue.

Edited November 20, 2007 by Kheres

[DogBreath]

I have even a better idea then. So many new players to the game and they're so in disadvantage. Let's wipe out all our storages, all our skills and other attributes. Isn't it a great idea.

Honestly, I get the impression you've got an idea, haven't thought it out much (don't want to say at all), posted and now you will call it flaming or personal attacks as I completely disagree with you and keep thinking your idea is just a yelling of a person that doesn't have EFE and doesn't others to have them.

Have you even thought by a tad bit that so called 'hoarders' have been saving the outcome of their work - namely EFEs - as they had some aims? Why would you bother with other people, you haven't done it, right?

 

@personal attacks

I don't PM people calling them 'jerks/idiots/whatever' and I always start my PMs with proper greetings. Quite opposite to you. Maybe you should learn something... even from a jerk (as you were nice to call me in PM) like me?

 

 

Well met, and I must apologize for that. I guess I too overreacted to you suggesting that I will surely burn in hell for my suggestion on improving the game -- this was my way of meeting you (even if you were joking.) Maybe we could just bury the hatchet and start over?

 

On the topic of the over abundance/skyrockting price of EFEs, I've actually put much thought into this, and this isn't my first character (I've been playing off and on for nearly 3 yrs), just the one that's suffering from EFE withdraw (as I imagine most new characters might be.)

 

But, after having carefully read all the posts, and taken special note to the "problems" listed by entropy on this topic, it appears that "we're" backed into a corner. The temporary solution being "choke" the EFEs from the game until there are a certain number left. I'm not suggesting my idea is the best, or even a good one. It is, however, a possible one, and seems to address all of the issues. Those issues being:

 

1) We have too many in game.

2) As entropy pointed out, they seem to be horded by certain people > 50 EFEs.

3) The shop, that used to sell them most, is now not.

4) PK has been reduced to no drop days as people don't want to lose their armor and have to buy/make armor that's worth less than the EFEs used to make the armor

5) The price of EFEs is skyrocketing based on all of the problems lisited above and the fact that EFE rates have been reduced.

 

It may not be a pretty solution, but it does address all the problems. If you have a better one, I'd love to hear it

 

EDIT: I also suggested that warning be given, and a deadline set, so that people could use up the EFEs they "saved" before they get wiped out.

Edited November 20, 2007 by Josi

[Vanyel]

1. If there is too many of them the price would be really low. Apparently it's not that low (yet, it's not as expensive as it used to be - I remember selling EFE for 8-9k at some point).

3. Can't argue with it. Yet, these people are collecting EFEs for a certain purpose. Each of them propbably for different. (I also think you meant there's fewer than 50 people like this, not more than 50).

3. According to EL shop site it is still selling EFE, just slightly more expensive than they used to be >.< At the moment it is $2/EFE.

4. Saying PK is in as poor condition as it is now due to EFE price is a big abuse. PK is like this for last... 18 months or even more. In this period prices of EFE varied from 3-4k to 5k as it is now.

5. I, honestly, wouldn't dare to blame people having more than 10 EFE for their price. I would rather say there is far more factors that influence it. One of them is not too big need for high-end items (due to NMT and other possible issues). Generally talking, people would love to have all possible items (including EFE) without a need of working them and without a risk of losing them. Unfortunately, it is impossible to have all of above.

Digression:

I wonder what would happen if Entropy decides to 'choke' the NMT from the game by making them breakable, until a certain number of them left. Look what has happend when he suggested making them degradable and breakable. A commotion that arose around it was not worth Entropy's time.

Here the situation would be even worse. People that have been working for a long time to get some EFE on stock would be taken them off. Without any compensation, without any use of them. Just like this. Not a really fair or good idea. I also don't think it addreses the problem.

Instead there should be some attention put to a possible other solutions. Like making USING EFE profitable.

Edited November 20, 2007 by Kheres

[DogBreath]

5k, give me a break....

 

I'm open to flames, smart-ass responses, lectures on Market 101, etc. Will especially be interested in your intelligent, straight forward answers.

 

 

I just checked yesterday the quantity of some items in the game.

In the mid March, we had about 15K EFEs, now we have close to 13K (so 2K of them got out of the game, which had to do with reducing their chance).

The biggest problem, IMO, is the hoarders. Some people have tons of them, like over 50, and until those people sell or use them, their value will be high.

 

I would also like to point out that in the past we used to sell a lot of EFEs from the shop (was the main item we sold). Now we sell MUCH less (people don't buy them), the rostos being the most sold item currently.

 

Now, rostos are more efficient in converting $ to GC, because they provide close to 4Kgc for 1 USD.

However, EFEs, even though they provide less than that, are easier to sell (usually people will buy them in bulk).

 

 

Yes, it is, which is why I am reluctant to increase their rate again.

I want to get them under 10K before I do it.

 

BTW, it just occurred to me that there are some discrepancies with the statistics database, so the number might be slightly lower.

I'll let you know the exact number once we fix this problem.

 

 

Some are active, some not so active. But there are many active players than have over 30 EFEs.

 

 

I just got a small note to make on the fact that it's hard to make iron armor pieces with the efe being ~5kgc...

 

It is very known that most of the high manuers buy fe's, this causes u to not make efe's urself (by making fe's), if the manuers would make their own fe's, they can use the efe's they make for iron armor and use the efe's they buy for high armor....

 

I also read the thread bout the vial mold that needs a efe to make, i used to make a lot of fe's and guess i made around 35 efe's doing this (some also made with enrich stones)...

 

But i also do think that the efe price is too high, but making ur own fe's would get u some efe's for sure, not much and it is indeed a big time spender, but still, the amount of efe's in ur sto doesn't have to be ranged on how much gc u got to spend on them....

 

This is just my 2 cents, so don't want to start a big discussion on what i wrote

 

These are the posts I'm basing my solution on. Plus many more, these are just in cronological order of how I read them. But, hopefully this shows I've thought it out.

 

If there aren't too many in the game, why entropy would say there are?

If there wasn't a problem with hording, the same...?

If the reduction of the rates isn't multiplying the problem, then why the rest?

 

I agree, there may be a better solution, but not sure how or what... Also, this one, as ugly as it is, seems to address it all.

 

After the wipe:

 

1) hording woudn't be an issue

2) people would need them much more than they do now

3) the shop would probably sell more

4) the rates could be restored to manageable level and make it more fair for everyone

5) with the increased rates the prices of armor and things made from EFEs should level back out to normal (over time)

6) once things level out, it won't be as painful/costly to buy new armor and PK might not be as distasteful as it is now

 

EDIT: The post about it affecting pk was by TTlanhil.

Edited November 20, 2007 by Josi

[masterpiter]

Take all the 2 step breakable armor and make it 1 step like the leather armor is so they have to remake or buy them instead of getting repaired.

Than it would be too expensive to use at training so it would end up like bronze/dragon armor sets, some ppl would buy 1 set for show off and never use it except no grief day, majority wouldnt spend their hard erned money for useless items, would it?

I dont mind it at all but it would piss off manuers for sure, they dont make any profit anyways unless they r lucky to make some enchanted weapon/armor afaik.

 

mp

[DogBreath]

One more thought on this, and I'll leave it alone.

 

Maybe just the threat of a wipe would cause people to use up the horded EFEs and by the time the impending wipe day came, it wouldn't even be needed... This might also drive the prices of the items made by EFEs down, and hence not cause a super high price of EFEs after the wipe as the items they make would be cheap and abundant.

 

Give them a choice, reduce the number of EFEs in game below X by a certain day, or else... And after that, the rates could be restored, etc, etc...

 

Edited November 20, 2007 by Josi

[Vanyel]

I respect Entropy, but I tend to think his opinion on this topis is rather biased. Moreover, you've not taken into consideration posts made by high level manufacturers and crafters like (my fav manuer ever!) CelticLady:

you asked for it geritt....

 

First off, any price for efe is fine provided the buyers of an end product are willing to pay at least the sum of the ingredients to make said end product, in my opinion. Setting the price higher to cover for the cost of fails and adding a small amount to that for a profit is not unreasonable in my opinion. With that said, some people will always undercut to make a sale. They will make part of the needed ingredients themselves and not charge a premium on their time spent to harv/alch the components they made just to make that sale. Then when someone that buys all their ingredients and tries to sell for even what their cost was, market doesn't respond in like because so-and-so sells for less. As a result, some people no longer make lower end training gear and opt to only make steel/titanium plates. We still lose gc on those sales, but get more xp and have the chance to make rares that sell for far more.

 

With an efe, if you don't have an enrichement stone, you can't just sit and make it. You can try and eventually get one from making fe's, but that's random when you get one. With artif cape, I've made 10/84,566 so 1/8457. On a good day, I can go through 10 or more efe's so that isn't a viable option for me. Enrichment stones are limited to how many people find while harvesting and while they do cost a bit less than an efe, they are not plentiful on market.

 

Hoarders. There are some people that hold onto things that they may someday be able to use themselves. Not too much of a problem unless they don't ever use them or sell them and they just sit there. That leaves them in the game, but they aren't being used at all. I try and stock about 40 efe's at all times, but I use them frequently and have even run out several times when I was selling armor faster than I could replenish stocks.

 

Since you can't calculate exactly when you will make an efe or predict how many will be needed the price raises because people are getting low on stock and want to have them available for use. As the chance to make efe lowers, like it is now I think, the price raises because of supply and demand. There are less available but in most cases the demand stays the same.

 

At times on market, I see people offering more than 5k for efe's. As long as armor prices raise in a similar fashion, no problem, but does that ever happen?

 

I probably missed a point or two, but you get the idea.

 

It is a very indepth post, point out some very important issues. I think that solving these issues should be a matter, as they are a very origin of problems with EFE price.

 

The influence of EL shop pointed out below is, in my opinion, slightly exagerated, yet, it should be taken into consideration as well.

Rostogol stones cost $4 in bulk. As long as the $ to gc rate stays more or less the same, the input from harvesting does not influence the price which is about 16k. Let's state that 4k gc equals $1. This might or might not be true anymore at the time of writing but I think it's pretty close.

 

ELE should cost about maximum 3.5k each to match this $ to gc rate. Since EFE are twice as expensive in shop, their price should be maximum 7k. Like EME as well.

 

I say maximum, because it is possible that the market is saturated by items from inside the game. Until their in-game price reaches the 7k barrier, buying EFE from shop will be worse than buying ELE, for money conversion. Once the price is over 7k, it will be pushed towards the 7k barrier no matter how rare the drops are.

 

The only thing that controls EFE value below this barrier is supply and demand, and psychological barriers like 5k.

 

Of course, if you offer say 40 enriched essenses, you might make more money than in single sale because none of us likes to scramble from town to town to buy ones and twos.

 

Yet another valid point.

EFE: http://www.el-cel.com/info/items.php?Det=210

vs

EWE: http://www.el-cel.com/info/items.php?Det=212

 

Look at the two links. See the huge difference in number of items that can be created with these two different enriched essences? Note the difference in request for finished good between these two enriched essences?

 

CelticLady again.

Some prices are coming up slowly for Items requiring an EFE to make, but the majority still do not sell for even the total cost to make. With prices continuing to rise on EFE, I don't think the prices will catch up. I tried off an on all day yesterday to buy upto 20 efe's on market for 5k each. I had one person offering me 10 at 5.5k each and that was it.

 

<personal-recollection>

Player was asking in local if anyone was selling an iron set. I responded that he could have mine for the cost of a replacement. He told me that they were not worth that much... I responded that if he wanted a set now, he would have to supply the 4 EFE and asked if he was willing to do that. I didn't get any reply to that question, and I didn't really expect to get one.

</personal-recollection>

People are used to the current price of iron armour and are not willing to take into account the value of replacement ingredients. This isn't the right price for these things, it is only what players are currently willing to pay. They saw the prices before Entropy reduced the chances of getting EFE and have an ostrich syndrome about the current prices.

Related to this is the cost of a serp, in market I keep seeing 5k, yet these take an EFE and a serp stone as well as other (non-harvestable) items. At current values, just these 2 ingredients take the cost of making a serp to 7kgc. Again, this 5k isn't the right price for the finished item, just what players saw the prices used to be and sticking their heads in the sand.

What is needed is for players to look at the ingredients list for a finished item and actually consider if the price they think an item is worth is correct. Unfortunately, I suspect that there will be many who will still refuse to use their brains logically. (No, this is not flame bait)

Until the above is resolved, and this has to be by players actually thinking about the game and not Entropy adjusting the economy, manufacturers will not make the iron sets and serp swords (and probably other undervalued items too) and so the overall amount of EFE in players storage will not reduce very quickly.

It is understandable that players are hoarding their EFE for when either the price of finished items goes up, or they have enough ingredients (e.g. hydro bars) to be able to ask high manufaturers to mix stuff (e.g. steel or titanium armours) for them.

 

 

Ostrich syndrome sounds good, but it's not the whole story... Why else would great sword prices be reasonably stable at 21-22k? Sure, the cost of a wolf bar has gone up with the cost of serp stones, but it hasn't been profitable for a long, long time.

The problem is also with the people selling things.

First up, there isn't just the one entry point for these items into the economy.

Anything that's a monster drop (lets point the finger at ti long) is going to suffer badly from that. But anything that a PKer gets for less than the cost of killing someone is worth, to them, selling for a lower-than-cost price just to get the cash now. And of course, stuff that was made earlier when it was cheap is going to turn a profit now (some people are hoarders. Many aren't, as I'll get to, but some are, and they can afford to sell for less than the current cost price).

Next up, people are looking for rares. This is exclusive to the steel/tit plates, great swords, and perhaps damage rings (the other things that come to mind, like FE, have a high enough demand for the base product that rare versions aren't the main motivator, they're a bonus). And heck, why not? If you lose about 3kgc per great sword, and after a few dozen you make one worth 200k, you're well in front.

Then, there's experience. That's not just that you get experience (which is worth something, and can be used to self-justify asking less than it cost you to make something), it's also that you made something different from the leather helms (or whatever) that you normally grind on to get levels.

People are impatient. There's valid reason to sell now for a little less than you'd get in the future, if that extra money now can be used to earn more money (that's sound economics), but people go well beyond the sound economic level in EL. They want it now. Sometimes this does make sense, if you need a lot of cash now for a big investment, though usually not.

And now we come back to the ostrich. People have seen other people sell for less (or worse still, someone told them someone else sold for a low price, and they naturally not only believe this person, they assume this other price is a valid one, and not a once-off from someone who was clearing stuff out) in the recent past, and think they should be able to get a better or at least the same deal, whether it makes sense or not.

There are probably a number of other factors as well, but those are the ones I can point to now.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can change this... Why? Because there's a point to trying to get rares, there isn't ever likely to be enough of a market on things like great swords that supply has issues (and if there is, it'll probably be because of the lack of serp stones, EFE, etc, which just increases the cost price and hoarders keep the prices up).

And because people in EL don't trade as if it really mattered and their livelyhood depended on it. Because it really doesn't. Unlike in the real world, if you go broke, you don't really lose that much... You just have less things which you can use to impress people and to gain more stuff (and as we all know, you can make cash as a newbie with nothing... A higher level player with no items can do it faster). It's "just a game", so people won't use realistic, logical planning and thought. And many players are probably young enough that they haven't done much economics beyond, occasionally, high school textbooks (I'm looking more at team leader to lower management level, or college/university economics). Not that they always should, of course, it is a game, and too much analysis isn't going to make it fun. But there are areas where an understanding of real world economics could help EL's market work better.

 

All in all, I find the EFE issue an outcome of all listed above. It really isn't a primary problem.

[draavell]

How about taking away all the chances of making any enriched essences, and leave it to the alchemists and the enrichment stones as well as the online store. I know this would be a pain as well, since making enriched essences are high level in alchemy, or paying cash for them.

Maybe this would also cause a problem with the number of enrichment stones in the game, something to be visited later.

 

it's just a suggestion, since suggestions are what they want to hear.

Edited November 20, 2007 by draavell

[DogBreath]

On the topic of manufactures. I agree, they would need to be able to compensate themselves for making their items and selling them. However, this is directly related to the prices of EFEs, and, as Ghrae pointed out, that's what goes into most of the stuff. If the price of EFEs and the rate at which they're available are balanced well, then it should drive the price of armor. Hopefully that balance would establish acceptable prices for the items that they make.

 

At this rate, with the high prices, no one wants the stuff they make either since they have to raise their prices to cover the costs of skyrocketing EFEs. Around and around we go.

 

Well, I enjoyed this topic but I must say I'm fresh out of ideas. Good lucky solving it

[dabomb1]

Just out of curiosity, how would you feel if you stopped playing for a while and came back to find that all of your EFE's are gone from your storage?

[DogBreath]

Just out of curiosity, how would you feel if you stopped playing for a while and came back to find that all of your EFE's are gone from your storage?

 

I suppose it'd be a bit upsetting. But, then again, that's the nature of the beast. If you take a while off from an online game, there's always the chance that when you come back things may have changed either for the better or worse. But then you suck it up and move on or you get mad and just don't play any more.

 

I guess I don't see much difference between what you're asking and how people feel about having purchased an arti cape only to find out it's fairly useless when trying to make EFEs Yet they're forced to endure the reduced rates and feel that they basically have a worthless 400k cape (pardon me if my prices are off, I don't actually own one myself but have heard many state this same complaint.)

 

I see your point, but if we just do nothing, then we should probably not even have this topic and just let things be as they are until they change.

[dabomb1]

The difference there is that you had a choice to buy the cape, but you didn't have a choice to get your EFE's wiped

[Walt-Her]

I'm sure everyone will hate this idea, so please don't shoot me in game for suggesting it. But, what if a deadline was made for an impending EFE wipe? Say, end of the year? This way horders would be forced to make use of them before that time. I realize that might put a crunch on sales of EFEs from the shop, at least until the wipe of them. But from then forward, it should provide some balance for the EFEs again.

 

Maybe don't bump the rate back up to normal after either, just better than it is now?

 

As it is so far, I've made nearly 18k FEs without one EFE, so for us poor folks the rates right now are quite impossible feeling. And maybe people could pre-order EFEs from shop for the post wipe?

 

 

Just a thought, if you hate it fine just try not to hate me for having it....

 

 

ever heard of bad luck ??

 

 

i went to storage few days ago, knowing i was going to make some efe, and why ? because my astro was good.

I started mixing and within 7k fe i made 3 efe !!

 

so i recommend to watch the make rare and start making if you need efe. But as i read from this whole thread, ppl who have bad luck or mix at the wrong time are complaining the most. Stop it and think before you talk is my recommendation

 

just my 2 ct's

[Raz]

<Apologies for the disorganised ramblings>

 

Many people are hording many things - not just efe....

 

One of the reasons is that when a 'special day' arrives, then they want to be in a position to make those final products.

 

I personally have a plan for the next time I get to see a recycling, scholars, or increased rare items day.

I am sure that many others do. Why make an item today - when if you wait for the right day, you get a greater chance / exp bonus for making the same item.

 

As far as I am aware, there is no shortage of final items in game - ie if you want a piece of armor, you can easily buy it, the problem being that people are used to the prices for these items being so much lower than the current cost of the ings (e.g Iron plate).

 

High end items seem to use:-

Enr Ess (esp efe/ele)

Hydro/Wolf bars

 

And that does not seem to matter whether it is for summoning, manu crafting or whatever, high lvl players are all after the same limited items.

Yet other 'costly'items in storage - like Bronze/tin bars are like albatrosses around your necks - they do not sell.

 

I summon - and have a load of ELE in my storage. There is no way I am going to use them to make stones - as I have 100+ stones in storage that I cannot sell.

I'll wait for the extra exp from scholars to make it worth my while blowing them away (wasting them? - possibly)

 

So suggestions:-

1) Alongside the NDD days - have a 2 hour spell of recyc/scholars/inc rare day - to encourage people to use what is in their storage.

2) Have an NPC buy the produced items for a cost that make production of them worthwhile from a gc perspective.

 

Trouble is that all that will do is cause more gc to hit the economy, which in turn would bump prices still further.

 

Or radically :-

3) Remove the rare item from the production of lower end items.

 

This would mean that you could lvl on lower 'cost' items, and reduce the demand for the rare items. yes people would still be hoarding - but with a lower demand, the price 'should' fall

[Puntif]

Another rare ingredient that is needed for high end items is serpent stones. I'm having a hard time buying them on my bot even though I've raised my price quite a lot. I expect that there are a lot of them in storage but not many are coming on the market. I will be saving the few I have left - not using them up except for emergency needs - until they become available again.

[Entropy]

The difference there is that you had a choice to buy the cape, but you didn't have a choice to get your EFE's wiped

 

LOL?

You mean someone prevents you from playing EL for, say, 2 years?

BTW, it's not just us, many other online games delete innactive accounts.

I am eventually planning to remove all the items from characters that didn't log in more than 2 years.

[Vanyel]

I'm all for deleting inactive users. This is a very good idea. I'm all against removing any items from active ones' storages.

[hades]

I am eventually planning to remove all the items from characters that didn't log in more than 2 years.

 

Very wise decision.

[dabomb1]

but say you are in the military, and just got deported, you'd be kind of mad when you got back...it's just a thought that i had because a few of my friends are in the military

 

***I'm fine with 1+ years, but make that as a minimum for a wipe

Edited November 21, 2007 by dabomb1

[Golemer]

I myself support the deletion of character after 2 years of being inactive I'd say move it down to 1 year.. I'd be excited about that but yet that is only my opinon.. but at the same time if you do a wipe on efe's that will not solve the high prices one bit.. you think 7k for efe is bad now.. try wiping all efe's and see what the price sky rockets to.. my prediction would be 12k-13k per efe if you wiped all efe's from game.. unless of course you do a full wipe.. e.g. skills levels and everything.. but I myself who have spent lots of money to the el shop would not be very pleased about the wipe of everything cuz I have 2 bots that I pay for on a regular basis and if we had a full wipe what would I sell on the bots? I am 100% sure the other bot owners agree with me on that.. we would have wasted a ton of rl money on our bots. But yet again this is only my opinon lol. And I have no clue how to lower the price of efe's or to get the hoarders to stop hoarding.. it is after all their choice to hoard even though it pisses us off we can do nothing about it.. on the other hand entropy can but I will stop rambling now lol.. xD

[DogBreath]

I myself support the deletion of character after 2 years of being inactive I'd say move it down to 1 year.. I'd be excited about that but yet that is only my opinon.. but at the same time if you do a wipe on efe's that will not solve the high prices one bit.. you think 7k for efe is bad now.. try wiping all efe's and see what the price sky rockets to.. my prediction would be 12k-13k per efe if you wiped all efe's from game.. unless of course you do a full wipe.. e.g. skills levels and everything.. but I myself who have spent lots of money to the el shop would not be very pleased about the wipe of everything cuz I have 2 bots that I pay for on a regular basis and if we had a full wipe what would I sell on the bots? I am 100% sure the other bot owners agree with me on that.. we would have wasted a ton of rl money on our bots. But yet again this is only my opinon lol. And I have no clue how to lower the price of efe's or to get the hoarders to stop hoarding.. it is after all their choice to hoard even though it pisses us off we can do nothing about it.. on the other hand entropy can but I will stop rambling now lol.. xD

 

I'm not suggesting everyone wakes up one day and is faced with the shock of their EFEs all being gone and they have no idea why. I'm suggesting they get plenty of warning and hence, USE the efes, so, there would be a glut of items that they require (and yes the price would fall like a rock for EFEs and those items.) So, I can't see how this would make them real expensive after, especially if people are able to make them again and there's an abundance of the items that require them. If fact, I believe it would just be a bump in the road...

 

The only ones that would lose out on this would be the horders, who are forcing everything to go up in value since the refuse to use the EFEs.

Edited November 21, 2007 by Josi

[Entropy]

The idea is that if the innactive accounts are deleted, I can have a better look at how many rare items are in the game, and if under a certain number, I can start increasing the rate again.

[DogBreath]

The idea is that if the innactive accounts are deleted, I can have a better look at how many rare items are in the game, and if under a certain number, I can start increasing the rate again.

 

I could see this at least helping give a more accurate answer to the "how many are there really" question. And as you stated before, wouldn't be the first game to get rid of inactive accounts...

 

EDIT: might it be possible to "move" these accounts out of the equation maybe, and have people petition to get them back if they happen to return? Just an alternative thought...

Edited November 21, 2007 by Josi

[Golemer]

See the reason I say prices will skyrocket the game I quit playing to come to EL did the same exact thing.. they did a full wipe on one item see in that game the item was a scarab blade a powerful weapon = to a dragon blade in el.. it's original price was 100k well after they wiped and people started getting them again the price went from 100k to 300k sometimes 320k depending on who was wanting it.. I know that game shoiuldn't be brought up in el.. I just using an example of how wipes can dramatically effect market values.. cuz if there is a very low quantity of one item then the very few people who get the very first ones can charge any price they want and no one can argue because hence fourth no one else has one for sell kind of like a monopoly.

[Entropy]

Look, I am not going to do a wipe of any items, except for the inactive characters.

In fact, we never deleted inactive characters so far, except for newbie ones.

 

So some of the items are in characters who didn't log in in years. Unfortunately, we do not know who didn't log prior to September 2006, because the player file date changed to that date since we switched servers.