The Cooldown Bitch Thread

[bofred]

its nice that you still try to fight for a better world, but to stay in EL-terms: get realistic! Ent chose long ago to not hear for anyones opinion, this is a very old fact and i even heard mods complaining about his all deciding powers, but its a fact, you have to live with it. most ppl do.

my guild is also pretty frustrated and stopped doing anything but harvesting the close future. i like new ideas very much, but when ppl react the way they do, they have a reason like you. but non-theless, noone will hear on you

 

one personal hint from me. i started playing making up to 2k magic-ess an hour, then it got slowered and i could make up to 500 an hour and as it is now im happy if i can do 100 an hour (and im talking bout having the ingreds already collected). first it got slowered by 400%, now by 500% again. so, i stopped making ME at first 400% and went to only playbale skill for me, the fighting. now fighting got too worse for me playing i gotta flee to another skill like..... well... i hope for a new one that satisfy me

 

but just ask yourself how much humiliation/masochism you take on yourself to satisfy the addiction of EL. i did for my character and im pretty disgusted with its outcome. (i dont tell what, would get me in trouble probably )

 

i know my text has no clear motivation, linear plot nor any good reason, but i have to excuse im rather scared by, to recite GGK, getting castrated by a rusted spoon.

 

why?

well if i fight for having EL more like i think, would be best, ill get banned.

if i dont fight, game will changed to in my eyes unplayable and i cant play either then.

 

so which one is the better?

i will stick to try not bitching that at least, i may could wait for a better EL in future, as it is told us, or just try to sell my char for good dollars. if lvling will be much harder, high-lvl-chars will have a good raise of worth

 

 

either way ill wait for the outcome at the end of the testing period to decide whats best for me, until then have a nice time as i stop playing EL.

 

bofred's out :/

[molime]

Well, why don't Alchamists carry a few DIFFERENT types of Food, Maybe carry 20 Fest Pots, 10 Bread, and maybe 100 Fruit, that way when the Fruit/Bread is cooling down you can use a FeastPot, this way you'll be able to make things at the same pace as you normally could. And don't say it dosn't work because I made 200 DE in the same time, if not quicker than befor.

 

Any comments?

 

 

Just one comment . What you describe above just doesn't work, I wonder how you tried that. Cooldown applies to all foodsources, you can't use a feasting pot while the fruit is cooling down like you say

 

But most things I tried so far go fast enough when you use feasting pots now (except disrings, there you have to wait for the cooldown and that's kinda annoying but well). So it's 'only' making or buying the pots that's extra work - and if you make them, gathering the meat. Hunting trips

[BloodSucker]

get realistic! Ent chose long ago to not hear for anyones opinion

 

Well, bahaving like this is like a blind who talking about colors... o_0

 

So I'am also off... like I said, until the things get better... or not (and before I'll get banned ;P)

[dragonstriker]

Bottom line

everyone was happy with the game and striving to increase their level

evryone was getting used to harving fruit and veg and gathering at a storage and making items etc

now everyone is unhappy and confused and upset as this cooldown is highly unrealistic and seems only to benefit the people that made mass ess etc so they can gain more gold

the game is being wrecked and people are getting damn sick of the stupid politics

Play the game as you would like it to be played

and if it ain't broke.......DON"T FIX IT

 

[MoJo]

Well i'm going to be honest here. I think the whole cool down idea has made the game far more frustrating for me, it does require alot longer to do things now which for me (as i don't have much time to play) makes it harder. I know it is going to make people work harder for their levels, But for me i want to play the game for enjoy-ment, just to have fun on this game. Not to work my ass off just to make a few things so i can train and get some levels up. The game was fine before the Cool-down thing started, it's just that we happen to have a few people that have all the time in the world to play this game. So from me it's a Thumbs Down towards it.

[cho-yun]

1: Bi*ching about cooldown won't make it go away

2: This has made the game harder and also if u think about it, it could make time fly quicker

[MoJo]

Well i'm starting to get used to it whilst fighting things.

So it's a start

Edited December 11, 2005 by MoJo

[Regar1]

ppl complaining about the cooldown makes me wanna bitch...and i'm not one to complain about stuff on Dec 4th Ent asked ppl to log onto the test server, for the EXPRESS purpose of testing cooldown effects....it was implemented a few days later on the main server. why? probably because most players couldn't be bothered to log onto that server, cause every1 is busy on the main one. well, guess what, this game is beta, if you don't wanna take some time and go on the test server to playtest new features, when u are asked to, then don't complain when they stick new features into the main game when too few ppl log on to actually test it. looking on the cooldown test thread, most of the ppl who are in here complaining did NOT bother to try it on the test server a week ago...in fact, most of the ppl in that thread are mods/devs/oldbies, with a few notable expections...:sighs: sry for ranting, basically what i'm trying to say is, if you didnt log onto the test server, stop ur bitching and whining....those of you who did, complain away tho constructive criticism is always more productive...and usually recieved a whole lot better

 

I personally did not get a chance to log onto the test server, in fact, until i logged in on friday, i hadnt played since before that post...RL can be a pain in the neck sometimes....makes me wonder if attempting to have an offline social life is even worth it

[bofred]

dude, i did log onto test-server and i did post my opinion on it BEFORE the update, but all was said from mods was "how the fuck you guys know what will happen, as it hasnt declared yet".

so when i finally read the update-news, i never logged in again.

 

am i allowed to bitch now?? in your eyes i am !

[BloodSucker]

So do I.

I have logged onto the test server, tried to use cooldown system, but I didn't post my opinion in the official topic.

 

Why?

 

Well, after someone of mods deleted all my posts, i've stopped to write them. Ideas of mines in EL, or random days was bitched by me. So all posts was deleted, and all my opinions was wiped out from EL forums.

[dragonstriker]

another prime example of to much power

I haven't seen people have a bitch listened to yet

just ignored or deleted

makes you think really

If you are going to implement something in the game and it gets such a negative response why bother>

sigh just another post set to be deleted

[Winston]

I thought it was said from day 1 that no bitching or thoughts on the matter were going to be listened to or heard until after 1 month. Just what I heard anyways.

[Aislinn]

I thought it was said from day 1 that no bitching or thoughts on the matter were going to be listened to or heard until after 1 month. Just what I heard anyways.

You heard right.

[dragonsyoung]

ignoreing players is nothing new to "the powers that be" , cant say i blame them given the amount of crap they have to lissen to/read thro. keep up the Grate work!!! cant wait to see whats pulled from the hat next. allways something exciting, left of center to come in game.

if u realy think u have something constructive to add wait till the right time!

[Chance]

I have to admit that sometimes I find it to be a wholly frustrating excercise to read through the forums. I'm quite sure that there are players out there who have reasonable and considered opinions on cooldown that should be heard. The problem is that such players don't necessarily feel as if they have the freedom to post because 'negative posting' has been wholly ruined by people whose only aim is to bitch.

 

I've a few things to add and I'll state right now that I'm not interested in straw men, ad hom attacks and the like.

 

Regarding 'negative posting': There are ways and then there are ways. If your boss implements a policy you don't like are you going to put a post on the bulleten board in the break room about how the boss has ruined everything? I should hope not, and not just because you could get disciplined. You see, it goes far beyond the punishment. Do you not see something inherently wrong about such a methodology? The title of this thread states it all. This thread wasn't created for some lofty ideal about finding ways to adjust to cooldown. It wasn't created to help other players learn how to deal with it. It wasn't even created to highlight potiential problems and pitfalls of the cooldown implementation. No, it was created to bitch; to complain; to vent with no productive or constructive outcome.

 

Think about your life and how you've dealt with problems. Think of all the times you bitched to your parents, to your grandparents, to you teachers, to your bosses, to your friends. Conflict resolution, forensics, and rational thought seem to have gone out the window. Now that you've thought about it, how many times has bitching really, truly resulted in a win-win situation? How many times has bitching helped the situation? I'd wager that's a low percentage; lower than the success at recommended level.

 

Bitching is not the way to solve a problem. And in my book taking off and running away doesn't solve the problem either. The Eric Cartman philosophy of, "Screw you guys. I'm going home," isn't the stuff of championship trophies and noteworthy accomplishments.

 

So, Mr. Chance, all I see is you bitching about people bitching. You hypocrite, you.

 

Well, not really.

 

There is an alternative to non-constructive bitching and to running away from the problem. Instead of being reactionary; instead of contributing to the problem; instead of doing nothing, why not look at the bigger picture; why not make constructive suggestions; why not take positive action?

 

Huh?

 

We are by nature resistant to change. That's just how it is. When food was implemented, there was a riot. When items started taking more than 1 second to make, there was a riot. When harvest events were implemented, there was a riot. When cooldown was implemented there was a riot. There is a bigger picture to this, though, and that is balanced gameplay.

My understanding is that cooldown is part of a larger plan to help balance gameplay. How many of you people who've been complaining have complained about how fighters are too unbalanced. There are tons of fighters with 100+ a/d. I know of one person with 100+ harv. There are probably people with 100+ alch. But if anybody is even close to 100 in manu, crafting or summoning, then I'll be supremely surprised. Doesn't that strike you as an inherent imbalance in gameplay? 30+ levels between the highest fighters and the next highest skill? It strikes me as a bit of an imbalance. Cooldown is part of a larger attempt to address that imbalance.

Let's not be reactionary. We don't necessarily have to embrace change, but let's give it a chance. Change comes whether we like it or not; in game and in life. You stop adapting; you stop changing and you get left behind.

 

So change happens. Wtf can we do about it? I mean if we say something negative then we r teh bant, right? Not really. There are ways and then there are ways. If you want to bitch, then bitch. But live by the consequences. There is an inherent moral wrongness in bitching for bitching's sake and as you sow so shall you reap. If you'd like to actually make a difference, why not do something constructive?

Sit down and chart out the time differential for making essences, bars, potions. Document the affect cooldown has on fighting, on pking, on summoning. Share your information with others. Put it down and concretly, substantively make the case that all cooldown does is inconvenience players and make everything harder. Can't be bothered? Fine, I understand, but just think of how cool it would be if you could tell that university you're applying to that you conducted an economic survey and study of a multi-layered economy that demonstrated emprically how economic regulations and restrictions negatively impacted the economy and the social structure of the community? Not only that, your presentation to the regulatory board influenced their decision to adjust the regulations and restrictions in favor of your position.

Yea, yea, it's far fetched but there ARE two sides to every coin. Sometimes more. The world is as we perceive it and the world is as we make it. If you're going to be crabby and bitchy, it's beyond me why you would take offense when the world is crabby and bitchy back at you. Make some constuctive suggestions. Maybe, just maybe, making your case without the negative attitude might elicit a more positive response.

 

 

Okay, I've read your inconceivably long post, Chance. How much longer is this crap gonna last?

 

When something happens we react to it. From the alarm going off in the morning, to the light turning green, to a problem at work or school, to somebody saying hello, to somebody messing with our fun, we react to it all. The question is how? There, my friend, the onus is upon you. The responsibility and the action itself is all up to you. You can press the snooze button, you can ignore the green light... You can react all along a range from negative to positive, but the choice is yours.

With cooldown in effect, people have reacted in many different ways. The newbies haven't seen much of a difference, all they know is cooldown. Some people have been upset and have expressed their discontent. Some people have simply not done much because of the cooldown. And some have chosen to find new methods and techniques for approaching the game.

I don't know about you, but part of the reason I play Eternal Lands is because of the challenge it presents. While I no longer have the time nor the inclination to have 6-8 skills in the top 20, I still do occasionally actually play. EL is not and has never been a purely physical, purely adrenaline based game. If you're looking for a shoot-em-up, you'll only find a gnome at the bottom of this barrel. Part of the beauty of the game is the nuance, the mental aspect that it presents. I've played some of the other mmorpg's out there. To be frank, I quickly tired of the mindless killing they presented me with.

Find some people to work with. Find new ways to do old tasks. Explore new skills. Stockpile goods and materials. But do something. If you do enjoy the game, use your time productively - use your time positively. Why not contribute to the game instead of taking knocks at the people who labored before and after their 'real jobs' to bring you a game that is unique in many ways. Do you honestly think that anybody wants to listen to bitching after a 15 hour day?

The devs are the same people who endured bitching when they tried to stop cheaters with harvest events. They're the same people who endured bitching when they tried to adjust an economy run amok and th.. well the list goes on...

Be positive. Be nice. Be constructive. Be productive.

 

So, go ahead and put up that negative posting about your draconian boss and how s/he's screwed everything up with his/her new policy. But if that boss pats you on the back I'd suggest looking for a "kick me" sign because rude behavior doesn't usually elicit a positive response.

 

 

That said, it IS the players who make up the Eternal community. The players heal at beam. The players dispense knowledge and answer price checks. The players brought us all many events and even game features. I'm a player too. I'm not writing this as a mod. I don't play this game to be a mod, I don't mod to mod. A while back, there were serious problems in channels and in local with behavior. There were people who were joining the game and had nobody to help them learn the ropes. Why? Because there weren't enough helpful people on at the time of day when I played most often. wtf should you care about that? Well, instead of bitching, I did something. I took it upon myself to do something constructive and positive. I chastised the troublemakers and documented the problems. I helped out and encouraged others to do so. And after a time, there were other players who stepped in and did likewise.

Make no mistake about it, as tenous as our connections may be, we are a community. We are more than just an aggregate of people pecking away at our keyboards and mice. If we can't hold it together here and make things work in a world where race and torture and terrorism and poverty don't matter and largely don't exist, how can we make things work in the real world?

[Hanover Fist]

Nice (albeit lengthy) post, Chance.

 

Just to follow up, I had a lvl 54 alchemist/manufacturer back when cooldown was first being, uh, "discussed" (i.e., when Entropy said he was going to implement it "just to hear you bitch"). I thought it was a bad enough idea that I dropped the game like plutonium (there was other stuff going on, but cooldown was the 50-lb weight that broke the camel's back). Deleted my char, said my goodbyes, and went to find another MMORPG.

 

So why am I back? Cuz almost all of the MMORPGs I played just had one dimension - kill things, get their stuff, level up, and kill tougher things. Stuff like alchemy and manufacturing, if it existed at all, were poorly worked afterthoughts, not core to the game like in EL. And the one game that offered EL-like breadth took so freakin' long to level up in that it wasn't worth it (and otherwise had the feel of a cheap Russian knock-off of EL, topped off with mods who spoofed newbies for entertainment <_< ).

 

Anyway, I still think cooldown is a hackneyed, ad-hoc, jerry-rigged, cure-the-symptom-not-the-disease, slap-a-bandaid-on-a-gaping-wound, no-child-left-behind approach to "balancing" the game (had to get my digs in somewhere). But who else remembers the degree of bitching going on before cooldown, about how market prices for everything from essences to serpent swords were going down the toilet? Who remembers the anemic attempts to form "manufacturers' strikes" and "alchemists' unions" that did nothing but make MrMind richer?

 

So to my fellow bitchers, I say this - start thinking about why market prices continually drop, start thinking about why it takes so long to level up in some skills as opposed to others, and start thinking about stable, workable in-game solutions. Otherwise, you risk getting slapped with "fixes" that'll make you bitch even louder.

 

Who knows? Maybe Entropy will even listen.

[Dimov]

I don't mean it as a bitch.

 

Well, I understand this was done to dis-überize fighters, so they can be equal to suppliers. Well, I've played for quite along, and seen several great riots, but my stats are crap, becuz I just log on and chat, becuz it's too time-consuming a game for me, I just like chatting with several peeps. So back to the fighers-suppliers stuff. My sugg is, to überize suppliers, instead of de-überizing fighters.

[Roja]

Thankyou Chance, couldn't have said it better myself

 

We need your opinions guys, in fact it's critical to have your opinions. Just be mature and use common sense when you post. You can easily have an opinion that does not agree with something we put in the game and express it.

If you don't know how to do that, then learn. I have no pity on those who do not speak up because "they are too afraid of being banned". If you are too afraid to speak, then you deserve what you get. And if you bitch, you also deserve what you get

[WoodeH]

Completley off topic..

 

But nice siggy Chance who made it?

 

Yeah, I personally have got used to the CoolDown, but I must say I still get kinda anoyed. (Being a fighter) that the SR's take so long, but for training on Monsters / Animals.. I find it ok, I can usually train for 1-2 hours on 30 SR's, and 100 HE's. But when it comes to actually fighting, it's a completley different matter.

 

I have 16 Will. (80 Mana, enough for 3 restores.) And I still don't find that enough, I use 1 SR after my first Heal, then I find I use about 3 more Heals then have to diss & tele, or run errrr walk.. but that's kinda anoying, cause people do tele to range whilst the diss ring should make them not move, so you end up dieing then.

 

But it adds more of a challege..

 

Ahh I dunno.. Has it's good points & bad points.

 

Personally. I think it has more bad, but hey.

 

My 2 cents lol..

Edited December 27, 2005 by WoodeH

[Jezebelle]

after a few weeks living with the cool down feature i must say..I LOVE it, lol.

 

Now..I always have to have conserved food in my storage that dont rot away

I can make things.whenever I want..without getting a load of fruit/veggies first.

And about that load..you can have your inventory fully packed with ingreds now, so no bag needed (if you have reasonable carry cap). Which is VERY handy for me since I chat too much and tend to go to f1 and let my bag poof

 

The only thing i find harder to make are srs..but ey..I will live with that, no prob!

 

Master Entropy..you did it again..creatting a feature which made your people go mad about..but in the end..works out greatly..!

 

I must add..I am no fighter..so I think the fighters will have a harder time, since srs cooldown is a bit too long..i experience that with remote healing at beam..I cant heal the wounded as quickly as I used to

And since dying DID become easier with cooldown, lol..its kinda outa ballance there

 

Jez

[Ghrae]

In short, I don't like the cooldown in it's current form. I know that there is some tweaking that has yet to be done... and perhaps even some offsetting experience tweaking, but until those go into effect, I can only comment on the current cooldown system.

 

The bottom line for a game is to be enjoyable. I agree that the cooldown does attempt to do two things: add some strategy and limit production to help the economy. Both noble efforts and to an extent, both are starting to work. To that end: congrats.

 

However, when it comes down to it, the cooldown doesn't take into account all skills. Summoning was by far the hardest skill... and now it's even harder yet. I don't see how new summoners stand much of a chance to compete.

 

Fighting difficulties have been heavily documented.

 

I think overall the problem is the delay. If I'm going to take on a project (let's say make 100 teleport rings) I either have to load up on Feasting Potions or just know that I will be waiting a minute between "mix" clicks. Feasting Potions add cost to making the rings, but since you can buy teleport rings from the magic shop in Portland, a price cap exists that is not friendly towards the extra expense needed to make them. If you decide to save some cash, then you're looking at some really slow clicking. Not really fun.

 

In short, I think if the cool down is here to stay, we really need to look at some balancing and tweaking as the current version has more negatives than it has positive.

[WoodeH]

In short, I think if the cool down is here to stay, we really need to look at some balancing and tweaking as the current version has more negatives than it has positive.

 

I agree.

[LadyWolf]

In short, I don't like the cooldown in it's current form. I know that there is some tweaking that has yet to be done... and perhaps even some offsetting experience tweaking, but until those go into effect, I can only comment on the current cooldown system.

 

The bottom line for a game is to be enjoyable. I agree that the cooldown does attempt to do two things: add some strategy and limit production to help the economy. Both noble efforts and to an extent, both are starting to work. To that end: congrats.

 

However, when it comes down to it, the cooldown doesn't take into account all skills. Summoning was by far the hardest skill... and now it's even harder yet. I don't see how new summoners stand much of a chance to compete.

 

Fighting difficulties have been heavily documented.

 

I think overall the problem is the delay. If I'm going to take on a project (let's say make 100 teleport rings) I either have to load up on Feasting Potions or just know that I will be waiting a minute between "mix" clicks. Feasting Potions add cost to making the rings, but since you can buy teleport rings from the magic shop in Portland, a price cap exists that is not friendly towards the extra expense needed to make them. If you decide to save some cash, then you're looking at some really slow clicking. Not really fun.

 

In short, I think if the cool down is here to stay, we really need to look at some balancing and tweaking as the current version has more negatives than it has positive.

amen

[Entropy]

Who knows? Maybe Entropy will even listen.

 

It is amazing to see how many peopel suffer from the "selective reading" syndrome. I thought Mr. Entropy clearly stated that he will listen to suggestions after 1 month.

Edited December 31, 2005 by Entropy

[Roja]

Locking this thread in favor of ones without junk posts:

 

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showforum=91